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Replies: 62
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110%er [8244]
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"soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 1:44 PM
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Clowney coming in with head down face mask towards ground leading with and hitting with top/crown of helmet
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110%er [8244]
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110%er [8244]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 1:50 PM
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At time of impact still leading and hitting with TOP of helmet Face Mask Down
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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It's difficult to post pics using that function...
Jul 22, 2013, 1:51 PM
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and predict the order they'll come up on.
I guess it's time to post the pic on a host website and use that method of posting.
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110%er [8244]
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 1:54 PM
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That was a fantastic hit. Nothing wrong with it IMO.
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110%er [8244]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 1:55 PM
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Hmmmm
other than if that same hit occurs this year he will be resting on the side line
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 2:02 PM
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I sure hope not. There was nothing malicious about that hit, nor was it illegal in my opinion. I thought (and hope) that any ejections would be teh result of a dirty/intentional helmet to helmet hit.
If they remove players for hits like the one Clowney made in that bowl game, this game is taking a step backwards.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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So youre saying that there are plenty of those hits???***
Jul 22, 2013, 10:21 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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in my day it was called "spearing" , using your helmet as a
Jul 23, 2013, 3:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really ] |
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weapon. to make a form tackle your head should be up.
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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Point to where the crown of the helmet is please!
Jul 22, 2013, 1:58 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***
Jul 22, 2013, 2:00 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Re: Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***
Jul 22, 2013, 2:06 PM
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Cause you're special?
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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Re: Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***
Jul 22, 2013, 2:06 PM
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You sure I'm not "special"? 
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Re: Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***
Jul 22, 2013, 2:27 PM
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NO, I couldn't say but we'll camup and you can show me.
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110%er [8244]
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Legend [19576]
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Re: Point to where the crown of the helmet is please!
Jul 22, 2013, 4:05 PM
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in the second pic the facemask is in his chest, not facing down. Clowney came up right before impact....
Hit was perfectly legal, take off the orange shades.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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you take off the maroon shades...his head is clearly down***
Jul 22, 2013, 10:23 PM
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110%er [8244]
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cockerel's did I ruffle your feathers
Jul 22, 2013, 2:00 PM
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hard too deal with facts or reality
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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Uh...no, and I'm no where close to a coot...
Jul 22, 2013, 2:02 PM
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See screenshot for awarded point, but thanks for being a #### about it.
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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That's what I thought, appreciate you attacking me for
Jul 22, 2013, 2:22 PM
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having a differing opinion of a brutal hit...
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CU Medallion [64517]
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I don't know but if I'm Vincent Smith....
Jul 22, 2013, 2:02 PM
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Ricky Barnum (52) and Partick Omameh (65) get a royal ass-whippin' after that play.
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CU Guru [1555]
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I concur sspassport
Jul 22, 2013, 2:04 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIu22jokKKk#t=0m50s
That angle shows it even better than your pics.
Head up at 51 seconds with face looking at handoff.
Head down at 52 seconds with crown of head burried in player's chest.
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head
Jul 22, 2013, 2:06 PM
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dips down for that split second as he's lowering his body, but you'll see immediately after impact it is his facemask in the guy's chest.
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110%er [8244]
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Look at Zoom Picture #2
Jul 22, 2013, 2:09 PM
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At time of impact/contact
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Oculus Spirit [81628]
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Which you can see, he never turns his head down, it's
Jul 22, 2013, 2:11 PM
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still in line with his spine...
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Which you can see, he never turns his head down, it's
Jul 22, 2013, 2:17 PM
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Doesn't matter if it is inline with the spine. His facemask was pointed towards the ground meaning he can't see what he is hitting. If I am diving through the air my helmet is in perfect alignment with my spine. Doesn't mean I am looking at what is in front of me.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Both were caught off guard.
Jul 22, 2013, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head ] |
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The RB didn't have the ball long enough to gain full control before the hit and the defender didn't have time to lower his body.
The results is in the second photo. The initial contact was the crown of the DE's helmet and the bottom of the facemask along with the crown's forwardmost part in contact with the chest protector. The front of the defender's helmet did not play a part in the initial contact, just the crown.
It's almost impossible to see it in game speed and there's no way it should have been called illegal. I also wouldn't want a kid thrown out of a game for something he didn't do deliberately.
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CU Guru [1555]
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If he was caught off guard why did he lower his helmet?
Jul 22, 2013, 2:24 PM
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Seems like I could agree that he might have been surprised if he ran around with his head down all the time and only raised it to make a tackle. But as shown in the first pic, his head is up and eyes can see what is about to transpire. Then his head is lowered as he knows he is going to make contact. I certainly can't state for sure he knew the impact was going to happen, but there is certainly enough visual evidence to presume it.
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Oculus Spirit [93606]
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Perhaps he was just following his instinct.
Jul 22, 2013, 2:35 PM
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Perhaps he just didn't want to belly up with a UM player. I've taken the middle road here because I really don't think he targeted though it's for certain that he led with the helmet.
I think the kid was doing his best to lower his body. He was just as stunned to see a path to the RB as the RB was to get the ball and see a WR crashing toward him. This certainly was a helmet to helmet but maliciousness wasn't evident to me.
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CU Guru [1555]
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Enthusiast [115]
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Honestly....
Jul 22, 2013, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head ] |
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the call could have gone either way. I've seen the play countless times and each time I see it, I have a different opinion. Clowney led with the crown but is was not helmet to helmet contact so it wasn't called.
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CU Guru [1555]
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I don't think the rule says you have to raise your head up
Jul 22, 2013, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head ] |
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AFTER you drill the player with the crown of your helmet. I think the rule is to make sure your face is up at the time of impact. Clowney doesn't do that here - and while it might not have been clear live, it is completely obvious in the video I linked. It bewilders me how anyone could think otherwise, doesn't look subjective to me at all...
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 2:12 PM
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The only reason people are trying to call this a dirty hit is because it was done by a South Carolina player. If this is a hit by someone on Clemson, nobody would ever bring this up and would defend this hit to the death if someone from another team claimed it was dirty.
You're making the rest of us look like whiny little babies by complaining about this hit. Just drop it.
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110%er [8244]
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ACC Chief/Head Ref
Jul 22, 2013, 2:13 PM
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"Rhoads was asked about South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney's hit on a Michigan player in the bowl game, and he said in his opinion that should have been an ejection, and that hits like that one will lead to ejections to this season."
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CU Guru [1321]
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### shame he wasnt the ref at the game then.
Jul 22, 2013, 2:17 PM
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Hit was legal as deemed by the officials in January. No amount of nay saying and attempting to prove otherwise will change that fact. He didn't target the other player's head, and that's simply the basis of the call. The RB was not considered a defenseless player.
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CU Guru [1555]
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Two different rules.
Jul 22, 2013, 2:29 PM
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Targeting a defenseless player is a new rule as of 5 or so years ago and brought down from the NFL to college.
Spearing is an old rule that has been around for a LONG time. It has been illegal to lead with the crown (top) of your helmet against any player, defenseless or not.
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CU Guru [1555]
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Just to clarify from the rule book
Jul 22, 2013, 2:52 PM
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2008 & Still Current (2008 NCAA Rulebook)
Initiating Contact/Targeting an Oppenent (sic)
1. No player shall initiate contact and target an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.
2. No player shall initiate contact and target a defenseless opponent above the shoulders. When in question, it is a foul.
http://www.jonheck.com/hdc/penalties.htm
This is clearly a violation of part 1. He initiated contact with the top of his helmet. That's the entirety of the rule. It doesn't have to be on a certain type of player. It doesn't have to be on a certain part of the opponent's body. Top head meats opponent first - penalty.
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All-In [29036]
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Which I find absurd
Jul 22, 2013, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to ACC Chief/Head Ref ] |
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We have folks here parsing split second images from 10 different angles, and still see it differently. I'm just not sure how you can eject someone for something like that. It is just going to be a huge guessing game, with way too much on the line.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Which I find absurd
Jul 22, 2013, 2:25 PM
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Exactly.
If a hit is going to warrant ejection, it needs to be (or should be) egregious and obvious. This hit was neither. As you mentioned, there are people showing freeze frames which capture less than 1/10 of a second...but that's not conclusive proof.
In my opinion, this fits that bill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9RfJwSkMU8
as does this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Y9wt3XkHo
The Clowney hit is nowhere near the level of those two in terms of hitting a defenseless player and leading in with your head. The fact that it was such a big hit was because he's a legitimate monster.
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Associate AD [810]
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You really think THOSE refs could make that call?
Jul 22, 2013, 4:49 PM
[ in reply to Which I find absurd ] |
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So the folks dissecting this in slow motion from all kinds of angles to prove their point, are implying that the same refs who said the measurement in the photo linked below was a 1st down should have been able to see Clowney's hit was illegal. That 1st down blown call came right before the "hit" btw.
Bottom line is that Clowney's hit was a "fantastic looking" play. I guess some ref could have called it spearing with the benefit of slo-mo from lots of angles. Maybe there are some other angles of this first down call to dissect to prove it was really a first down.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/refs-blind-no-really-outback-bowl-officials-terrible-212632820--ncaaf.html
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: You really think THOSE refs could make that call?
Jul 22, 2013, 5:33 PM
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That was one of the worst missed-calls I've ever seen, and it would have been a pretty big deal had Clowney not done what he did on the following play.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: ACC Chief/Head Ref
Jul 22, 2013, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to ACC Chief/Head Ref ] |
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Yea I actually just saw that thread. I had missed it prior to now.
I think that would be a horrible call if that's what they are planning on doing.
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Varsity [226]
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Varsity [226]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 2:23 PM
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Sorry, was trying to reply to tmac9wr's first post.
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 2:26 PM
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Thanks!
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Varsity [226]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 2:27 PM
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Just get tired of posts like this. Makes us look pathetic.
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Fan [70]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 3:32 PM
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Thanks Carter. This whole string makes me want to puke. I was hoping someone would finally say ENOUGH. Some of us are actually whinning about a big hit. If the team has this attitude, it will be five.
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CU Guru [1904]
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Watch the slow motion from GamecocksOnline
Jul 22, 2013, 3:14 PM
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It's obvious
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1st Rounder [630]
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At least Clowney doesn't have a brain to injure.***
Jul 22, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Orange Blooded [3422]
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Re: Watch the slow motion from GamecocksOnline
Jul 22, 2013, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Watch the slow motion from GamecocksOnline ] |
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If you have to watch the play in slow motion to see what went wrong, it's not obvious enough for an ejection in my opinion.
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Orange Blooded [3599]
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Why don't we just put dresses on 'em.
Jul 22, 2013, 4:19 PM
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nm
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110%er [8008]
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You think Clowney would look good in a dress?***
Jul 22, 2013, 5:29 PM
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CU Medallion [51524]
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Rock Defender [53]
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My understanding is you wear dresses on weekends.
Jul 22, 2013, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Why don't we just put dresses on 'em. ] |
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You know, when the cross-dressing occurs. Guess that explains your affinity towards them.
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All-TigerNet [10185]
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rather see the illegal hit on Tajh***
Jul 22, 2013, 5:52 PM
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Amateur [36]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 8:29 PM
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The hit was not illegal. It's unfortunate that the game is coming to this.
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CU Guru [1649]
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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Jul 22, 2013, 8:49 PM
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I really don't care either way, about this call, it was LAST year. What I'm concerned about is when we have a DB miss a game this year because a WR gets his bell rung. Oh, and by the way, cLowney is 6'6" tall and the back is 5'7", not sure how anyone can judge contact point at full speed.
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110%er [8244]
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Oculus Spirit [82984]
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Legal or not, no way they call that so close to line
Jul 23, 2013, 7:01 AM
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of scrimmage. It's a reaction play.
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Replies: 62
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