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Topic: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current
Replies: 33   Last Post: Mar 25, 2019 6:08 PM by: BloodbeOrange®
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Replies: 33  

it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current

[12]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:02 PM
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state of our basketball program always point to Clemson's total history (going back 100 years), rather than looking at how successful 2 of the last 3 coaches were.

Why can't you look at the success of Barnes and OP, and say, "man, this can be done". Instead, you throw stats out of our "history", which is irrelevant, considering recent success.

2019 orange level member


Re: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:11 PM
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I hear ya, but why did Barnes leave? Same question of OP? Did they see the grass greener elsewhere?

2019 white level member

Re: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current

[4]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:22 PM
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I think OP left because he believed he's taken the program as far as he could, and if he didn't go on his own terms, he'd have to go anyway.

I think there were 2 reasons Barnes left: 1) Go to a program with more success, money, etc.; 2) He didn't feel the administration took basketball seriously.


Re: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:31 PM
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Thanks TS. I agree.

2019 white level member

Re: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current

[3]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:13 PM
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Their standard line is Purnell left the cupboard bare for Brownell. It was so bare Brownell made the tournament his first year. Yes, we struggled after that, but I believe if Purnell had still been the one recruiting instead of Brownell we would not have dropped off like we did.


Brownell isn't great, but I sure haven't missed Purnell!***

[4]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:34 PM
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2019 white level member

whether you liked OP or not.. we should appreciate him

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:18 PM
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He went to 3 straight NCAAT's -- improved every year-- Put us on the map during that time-- and...

HE WON MORE ACC GAMES IN HIS FINAL 3 YEARS THAN ANYONE NOT NAMED DUKE OR UNC. I don't care how bad the ACC may have been, etc... it was still the ACC, and that is a heck of an accomplishment.

2019 orange level member


Were you pleased with his record in the NCAA Tournament?

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:19 PM
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Because I wasn't, especially since we were the favored team in 2 of those 3 appearances.

2019 white level member

absolutely not... but that is a stupid argument, and one you

[2]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:29 PM
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can only make if BB had made more than 2 in NINE years. OP got there. Period. Amazing how you want to argue his record when he got there, but will defend the guy who CAN'T get there.

2019 orange level member


Re: absolutely not... but that is a stupid argument, and one you

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:53 PM
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Hey, his post isn’t about BB. He didn’t say BB anywhere in his post. Right, Judge??

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Photobucket is holding my sig pic hostage. Screw them.


Right. Glad to see you are learning!***

[2]
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 11:30 AM
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2019 white level member

Re: whether you liked OP or not.. we should appreciate him


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:22 PM
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I liked OP.

2019 white level member

Re: whether you liked OP or not.. we should appreciate him


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 1:31 PM
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May want to brush up on your memories
Yes made ncaas 3 yrs still never won a game

Played weakest nonconference schedule to pad to 20 wins bc acc play always took toll on his teams overall records

ACC conf records
Finished .500 or better 3 times out of 7
Had one year where his Seniors played above average and made noise in ACC


Horrible at developing players See James Mays never really developing an offense, Baicu never used ever, and others

Had a gimmick plan press all the time so lived and died by sword

Cupboard was slim bc if you tried to play basketball vs track style those guys could not shoot (see FT %)

OP made Ckemson a style of basketball, not a program.

Not sure who out there can ma m.j e a program out of Clemson. Hope they can find or have somebody to do it.


When Shacka left OP was done, same for Tommy


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 1:41 PM
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Bowden when Rodriguez left.Look at OP'S record after he left with no Shaka


Re: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:36 PM
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I never understand all the love for OP. I liked him and his style of play - at least until everybody got onto his press . But he never won a NCAA Tournament game at Clemson or anywhere else. He went to DePaul and never had a winning season. Barnes was successful but never seemed to be a good fit - at least away from the court.


We were relevant and contenders in the ACC


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 9:31 AM
    Reply

and that was fun.

The '08 ACC tournament was fun.

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: it is interesting to me that the "defenders" of the current

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 10:37 PM
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Brad has gotten us on the cusp of doing good. Close games have sunk him. Especially this year when he had mostly and experienced group

badge-donor-05yr.jpg

It is interesting that people who feel we are underachieving

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:01 PM
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now are basing that on two prior coaches who bailed on Clemson after a few years of some success.

2019 white level member

Re: It is interesting that people who feel we are underachieving

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:09 PM
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Coach Brownell is loyal thus far, can’t dispute that. We should keep him forever.


I'm not saying that.

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:12 PM
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I just don't understand why the two coaches who are supposedly role models for our basketball coach to strive for both bailed on Clemson. One criticized the local area when he left, and the other one didn't even have the courtesy of meeting with his team before leaving.

2019 white level member

absolutely irrelevant to the discussion


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:15 PM
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the discussion is about winning, and being succesful... both of those guys did it with worse resources than what BB has.

No one is arguing to bring them back. The argument is they proved it was possible, but suddenly we think it can't happen in 9 years b/c of "resources".

2019 orange level member


Who said it cannot happen?

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:17 PM
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It can.

But you're kidding yourself if you think it's likely for Clemson to have a successful coach and keep him here, given the currently poor support for basketball at Clemson.

I'm actually interested in building something sustainable with our basketball program.

2019 white level member

BB could not sustain what OP did..


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:21 PM
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3 straight NCAAT appearances.. and a veteran team returning. BB comes in and makes the First Four. Then we go on to 1 NCAAT appearance over the next 8 years.

What is the "I want to sustain our program" you speak of, while defending the past 9 years?

Oh.. I know... OP left the cupboard bare... right?

2019 orange level member


Both Barnes and OP earned the fan support. Period.


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:33 PM
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they had MUCH LESS commitment than BB does fro the admin, and still won. How do you explain that?

2019 orange level member


why they left is irrelevant... In their last 6 years here


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:13 PM
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(3 for each), they were 6 for 6 in NCAAT appearances. OP was in the postseason 6 of 7 years, and Barnes all 4, with 3 being NCAA. Facts.

They proved it can be done here, and that it can be done recently... WITH THE SAME ISSUES YOU CLAIM BB IS FACING.

Why do you give him a pass for 9 years, but not recognize what they did with WORSE conditions. Why accept the last 9 when you have seen that success happen?

2019 orange level member


It's actually very relevant.

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:15 PM
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Unless you're content always losing coaches who have a few years in a row of success here.

2019 white level member

And that is where some of the things

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:22 PM
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you speak of would come in to play. Pay commiserate with performance fir the head guy and staff, keeping up in facilities, amenities and support. That's exactly what happened with Dabo. Maybe if we ever get someone who can take us to the level of consistent NCAA births again, that will actually happen this time.

If/when we ever do get a new coach, they'll be walking in to a program with more of that in place than anyone who preceded him. Brad had a lot to do with that. But sometimes the guy to get you to that point, isnt the one to get you over the hump. In that way Brad is similar to Bowden


absolutely... Clemson football will be forever grateful to

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:27 PM
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Tommy Bowden (we should be), and that's a fact. The same could be true for Brownell. He's a great guy, who has gotten some of the things we need.

But, just like Bowden, he could not win enough games. Period. End of discussion. The next guy will inherit a program poised for success. BB had a large part of that, but he just could not get the wins.

2019 orange level member


how is that relevant? How is a successful coach leaving

[1]
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 11:24 PM
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relevant to BB's 9 years of mediocrity?

Why? If your argument for 2 NCAAT's in 9 years... and 4 years of ZERO postseason is "the good ones left", then you have other issues.

2019 orange level member


Discussing this with you is exhausting.

[1]
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 11:36 AM
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I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish at this point by continuing to debate and question me. We've both stated how we feel about our basketball program, yet you still seem bent on trying to argue. I'm not sure if you are trying to be "right" or get me to change my mind or just argue for the sake of arguing.

You think we should change coaches and you have good reasons for doing so. I have never tried to get you to change your mind. We see this issue differently, and that's okay.

2019 white level member

Re: Discussing this with you is exhausting.


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 1:43 PM
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Did you not initiate this discussion with the original poster?


all I want to know is why he gives Brad a pass, and will not


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 1:45 PM
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acknowledge that other coaches were succesful with LESS COMMITMENT. i don't want a "well they left us" answer.

By ignoring their success, while at the same time giving Brad a pass doesn't make sense to me.

2019 orange level member


Its interesting to me that a few days ago you were making a case

[1]
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 2:40 AM
    Reply

for us to be in the tournament, and now you're trolling the one person who's a defender of Brownell.

Argument du jour. Interesting indeed.


Re: Its interesting to me that a few days ago you were making a case

[1]
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 6:08 PM
    Reply

There are more than just Judge. He just has more patients.

2019 white level member

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