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Topic: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally
Replies: 38   Last Post: Dec 5, 2019 11:33 AM by: goclemsontigs
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When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally

[10]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:21 AM
 

their bich, and their wasn't another decent ACC school (the West and Bowden eras for us), I don't recall the media dissing them because they were in a weak conference and their SOS sucked. Did I miss that?

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The didn’t do it to Miami while they were demolishing

[5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:27 AM
 

the Big East either.

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Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:40 AM
 

Excellent point. How about tweet that to ESPN?

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Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:42 AM
 

I think they got the benefit of the doubt because they were playing Miami and Spurrier’s Florida teams during that run. Those teams were pretty good.

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Both Miami and FSU were top 5 teams that played each other early in the season

[4]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:46 AM
 

Then FSU would at least get another ranked game against Florida while Miami had some good VT and WVU teams on their schedule. This argument is getting stale. Our opponents sucked this year. We are #3. That’ll be good enough to get into the playoff. I honestly don’t get why people are so upset over this.

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I see you point...

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:37 AM
 

I also see why people are upset about the media dismissing 27 wins in a row plus crushing two top 4 teams in the playoffs last year because it's a "different year". I mean, it's true but that never applied to Bama.


Different era back then. CFB has become a

[6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:54 AM
 

microcosm of US politics and media. Never admit the other side is right or give them any credit. Only follow media that completely supports your point of view. Unfortunately, Clemson is a third party candidate in the ACC. The ROY bus started because we got no respect last year for a team that ended up being one of the best of all time.

2020 student level member

I think you can tie social media into that too.

[4]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:39 AM
 

everyone is being feed algorithms to solidify their stance instead instead of considering all points of view. Critically thinking is suffering as well -ask a math / science teacher!


In a matter of a couple of days we can get

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 8:28 AM
 

100s of people's opinions. If 10% are negative then you can find 10 people's opinion that you don't like and get it retweeted to 1000s and Tigernet or some other legit news source can write an article about it and now the 10% opinion becomes the "majority" opinion.

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The idea that Clemson gets no respect is limited to the media (ESPN).


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 8:47 AM
 

When I've traveled and had people recognize the Paw, I've seen nothing but love and admiration for our Tigers. The general population gets it.

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There's something in these hills.


The "general population"...


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:52 AM
 

at least the segment of it that really follows college football, is just as sick of E$ecPN and their bias and rhetoric as the rest of us.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


imo, part of it has to do with the way dabo is doing things,

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:35 AM
 

too. most teams in college football, especially the "eliete" teams are nothing but football factories, they don't care about the players, just winning. with dabo's program the winning is a by-product of the overall plan. the fact that he is successful with this scares the cfb establishment.


Try Hatfield and West.

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:18 AM
 

Not West and Bowden.

And to answer your question: I think it was just a totally different era when we didn’t have all of the constant over saturated media coverage (and of course, social media) like we have today.

2020 white level member

Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:50 AM
 

No because the SEC hadn't figured out the propaganda thing yet .
After the onset of the BCS virus , they put a long string of NCs together and fostered the idea that they were the only conference playing high level football . That campaign's lingering effect on their associated media outlets ( ESPN/CBS etc ) and the fanbases of all but a few deserving SEC upper echelon teams has made it difficult if not impossible to accept that there aren't that many good teams left in the SEC , save for 3 or 4 a year . Sometimes less .

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DB23


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 8:03 AM
 

Actually, I think 2004 forced their hand about making the media machine work. They got bit by the BCS folks then they started putting their thumb on the scale.

A 13-0 Auburn was left out of the BCS. Sure, OU and USC was undefeated and blowing out lesser competition, but Auburn beat better teams and was likely the best team playing better folks. They just were not an offensive steamroller with lesser teams.


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:59 AM
 

This isn't true at all. Auburn was left out that year BECAUSE they played BY FAR the worst schedule of the three teams AND they didn't look as impressive as Oklahoma and Southern Cal in playing that lesser schedule.

Strength of Schedule (2004)
Southern Cal = 5
Oklahoma = 11
Auburn = 55


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:24 AM
 

Oklahoma played 2 teams ranked in the post season (#5 Texas, TTech). USC was arguably better playing both VaTech and Cal & Arizona State.

Auburn payed 3 top 10 ranked teams at the time, all finished top 16 - (including a defending Natty Saban team) plus VA Tech in their bowl. Actually they played UT twice in Knox and ATL. UGA, UT, LSU

Granted, their weaker teams were weaker but the 2004 Auburn team was very similar to the 15/16 Clemson team that was both BETTER but not running folks out of the building.


It started with the texas network


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:06 AM
 

The big ten saw the profit in it and started their network
Espn saw the big10 network and started the sec network

Then they promoted the snot outta it. I don't recall this level of homerism until the sec network


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 7:01 AM
 

They weren't dissing FSU because of their rivalries with Miami and UF, but as I recall, they were dissing the ACC, and saying that FSU really belonged in the SEC. There were years during conference expansion when there was a lot of angst among ACC'ers that FSU might just do that: jump to the SEC. I don't know whether there was any substance to those fears, but that was the perception.

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That was before the BCS and the Playoffs.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 7:52 AM
 

Back then you kicked butt and then took whatever ranking and bowl you earned. Now it's do or die for that spot in the top 4, and that's based on a committee's opinion, so things like SOS and "eye test" matter more now.

Personally, I'd just assume have the old system over the BCS or this thing they call a playoff now. 4 teams? Some years that will work, but MANY years it won't.

8 teams. Three games. Drop the conference championship games, or a regular season game. This all ends with 8 teams. I can see no room for controversy for a #9 or #10 to gripe about not making a playoff. I can see many years where a #5 or #6 could. It's the same problem the BCS had really. And as imperfect as the BCS was, it was better than this playoff system IMO. At least you had 10 teams involved, but it still came down to a committee divining who were the top two. Now it's a committee divining a top 4 with no other options.

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Re: That was before the BCS and the Playoffs.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 11:33 AM
 

Are you really saying you liked the BCS more than the CFP?


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 8:12 AM
 

What media? It was over 20 years ago when there was 10% of the media coverage that CFB has now.

FSU was also playing a Top 10 UF team in the finale every year. Guess you forgot that


I do remember them catching a bit of flack about it, but in


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 8:25 AM
 

that time period, you did not have the 24/7 media coverage over EVERYTHING. Social media was not a thing and you just didn't hear all of the worthless opinions that you hear now. It's almost like a grass roots uprising twitter style. Nothing goes unseen anymore because everyone is a victim.

2020 white level member

You absolutely heard it from the $EC homers...

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 8:41 AM
 

You may recall, FSU turned down an opportunity to join the $EC (twice actually) and joined the ACC instead.

The narrative was, FSU was afraid to play in a "real" football conference and chose the ACC because the road to a National Championship would be easier.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Yes, FSU was playing Miami and Florida every year,


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:02 AM
 

but... Miami was 81-26 during FSU's ACC heyday from '92-2000. FSU went 6-3 against them during that time. Miami was good, but not great. They won 10+ games 3 times in those 9 years and went 5-6 in '97.

Florida was much better at 93-20, with only 2 seasons that were not 10, 11, or 12 wins. There were 2 seasons, '94 & '96 that we got an FSU/FL rematch in bowl games.

FSU also played a home and home w/ a pretty terrible SoCal team and they played both good and bad ND teams a couple of times.

The bottom line is, there are 2 reasons nobody talked about how bad the ACC was in those days.
1. Bobby Bowden was Nick Saban before Nick Saban w/ regard to getting his behind kissed by the media. That 'aw shucks' personality and puntrooskie made him a cultural icon and he could absolutely do no wrong.
2. FSU was judged on one thing...eye test. They were good, winning 10+ games every one of those 9 years and going 12-0 in '99. Nobody cared that the ACC was bad because FSU was good, and therein lies the point many of you are trying to make.

It doesn't matter that social media exists now, or there are more TV channels, or any of that crap. A narrative is a narrative, Chris Fowler was around then, and he hated Clemson because he thought we should be happy with Ken Hatfield and mediocrity. He was a wishy washy turd then, and he is now.

It was also the narrative in those days that 'iron sharpens iron'. The more brutal the schedule, the better your team was because you were battle tested. Now, all anybody wants to talk about is 'Clemson is only good because they don't play anybody'. It's nonsense.

The biggest difference in then and now is journalism was mostly objective. Now, it's all a bunch of inflammatory, loud mouthed hacks seeing who can get the most internet hits and trying to get the crap they throw against the wall to stick. When it does stick, they run with it and the wannabes ###### it up and run with it, and presto... false truths galore.

You don't have to like Dabo pointing out the flaws in the process, but it doesn't make him wrong. Somewhere along the way, reality TV (there's an oxymoron for ya) became popular and drama for the sake of drama entered every facet of our lives, especially sports. You need look no further than how game commentators discuss replay situations. It's laughable.


They also played Notre Dame, SoCal and other teams ranked


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:20 AM
 

facts > feelings


Guess you missed this part of my post...


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:39 AM
 

"FSU also played a home and home w/ a pretty terrible SoCal team and they played both good and bad ND teams a couple of times."

They lost @ 11-1 ND in '93. The following year they beat a 6-5-1 ND team at home.

In '97 they beat 6-5 SoCal @ SoCal. In '98 they beat 8-5 SoCal at home.

So there's your facts.


SoCal was 23rd. ND was 2 and 3 ***


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:06 AM
 




The bottom line is only one of those ND and SoCal


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 11:13 AM
 

teams was worth anything, the '93 11-1 ND team. The other ND team they played was 6-5-1.

The 2 SoCal teams they played were 6-5 and 8-5 respectively. FSU was good, no doubt, but using those teams as evidence of quality wins is bogus. The lost to the best one, the 11-1 ND team.


They actually did. Do you think "FSU and the 8 dwarves"


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:07 AM
 

was a compliment?

The big difference with FSU back then is that they consistently played two other top 5-10 teams every year in Miami and Florida, and there was usually at least one other good ACC team per year whether it was UVA in 95, UNC in 96, or GT in the late 90s.

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Miami was in the top 10 only 3 times from '92-2000.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:11 AM
 

That was FSU's ACC dominant run.


True, but FSU's run started in 1987 i believe so by the

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:14 AM
 

time they joined the ACC they were well established as a national power that had already finished in the top 5 for 5 straight years. Plus, even the "down" Miami teams from 93-99 only failed to win 9 games twice (8-3 in 95 and 5-6 in 97). Those were mostly still quality wins.

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But the discussion was about FSU's time in the ACC,


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 11:16 AM
 

which didn't begin until '92. They were good before that, but those years aren't part of the discussion with respect to the narrative that the ACC was a bad conference then.


It's a function of 24 hr media always looking for attention

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:37 AM
 

Heck Nebraska and Oklahoma played no good teams one but each other for 30 years and no one trashed the old SWC like they do the ACC now. And those SWC were BAD. We beat opponents by 30, Neb and Ok were beating their conference foes by 50, 60, 70 regularly. Just a symptom of the times.


Oops, that was the old Big 8, not the SWC


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 9:40 AM
 

Losing track of all the old conferences now


A bygone era. Things changed when ESPN invested in the SEC


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:10 AM
 

ESPN started getting too caught up in teams when they put forth the Longhorn Network. Remember that? But they didn't stop there. ESPN decided to invest in the SEC and make it their baby. Their narrative quickly became "pump the SEC". We've all seen and heard it for years now. CBS had already been broadcasting the SEC and saw the sudden growth of the brand and upped their marketing game as well with all the "BEST teams from the BEST conference!" bullsh*t.

Since two major college football broadcasting partners were constantly telling us SEC this and SEC that, the game evolved into "What about your conference?" Suddenly a great team wasn't perceived as great if their conference was considered weak. And no matter how sorry an SEC team was they were still better than you because they had great teams in their conference.


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:40 AM
 

Yes, they did. But, not to the degree they are doing it to Clemson.

Probably the reason is while we were going 14 years ranked in the top 4 nationally (BTW, Bama's streak of top 4's will end this year at 6) we were playing Miami and Florida every year. In the 90's Florida and FSU were commonly ranked in the top 5 when they played.


Re: When FSU was making everyone in the ACC and nationally


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 10:44 AM
 

E$ecPN hadn't bought the $ec at that point yet.....


Twitter/Facebook/the Internet didnt exist back then***


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 11:17 AM
 



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