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Hall of Famer [20540]
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These tiny recruiting classes are killing offseason drama
Jan 28, 2017, 12:37 PM
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...and while it's boring I also love it.
Clemson's recruiting 14 guys this year. There's just 10 seniors on the roster next year plus the guys who go to the NFL early so it looks like it'll be 14-15, max, again next year. That's good for about the #15-rated recruiting class in the nation. Maybe lower. There's some SEC schools due for some late Signing Day rampages.
Why? Ultimately, there's just plain no attrition at Clemson; we can't sign guys like they do. Our guys all turn out. I look at the rising seniors - there were originally 23 of them, in the 2013 class. There's just 9 of those guys left...but let's look closer. Mackenzie Alexander, Shaq Lawson, TJ Green, and Jayron Kearse (4) all went NFL last year. This year we've got Mike Williams, Ben Boulware, Jordan Leggett, Jadar Johnson, Wayne Gallman, and Cordrea Tankersley (6) all graduating and going to the NFL after four years in the program.
That leaves just the redshirt seniors - Scott Pagano, Adrian Baker, Maverick Morris, Marcus Edmond, Ryan Carter, Korrin Wiggins, Dorian O'Daniel, Tyrone Crowder, and DJ Greenlee. (Adrien Dunn also earned a scholie as a walk-on.) That's 9 of the original 23, accounting for 19 guys total.
Tyshon Dye just graduated and will play his redshirt senior year somewhere else. That's 20.
Of the rest, Ebenezer Ogundeko got himself arrested and was dismissed. Dane Rodgers and Kyrin Priester gave up fairly early and transferred. (3, accounting for all 23.)
And you wonder why Clemson's sitting so pretty with scholarships. We've lost 10 players after 4 years to the NFL and still have another half-dozen redshirt seniors who will probably play Sundays on top of that. Only 3 of 23 guys are no longer with the program and aren't on pace for either the NFL or graduation. Most programs lose more than 50% of their players after the second year.
Those aren't "good" results. Those are phenomenal results and it's exactly why we don't have to recruit a ton of guys...just elite ones, the ones who fit our culture. And we can take our sweet time weighing and measuring them. Hanging with their families. Getting to know all their needs and foibles.
Of course, when you sign just 14 players, it doesn't get the recruitniks excited. It doesn't sell offseason magazines. We aren't going to "win" Signing Day. And our classes will continue to be modestly rated...this will be yet another year in which Clemson finished the year Top-10 and didn't have a Top-10 rated signing class to follow it up, which is almost becoming the norm...and it kind of makes a mockery of SportsSuites' Conspiracy Theories about Clemson's buying players. Our results vastly exceed our on-paper recruiting classes. We aren't somehow, miraculously signing ludicrous recruiting classes after sub-.500 seasons; we leave that to the Usual Suspects in the SEC.
We aren't winning Signing Day, though there was an article somebody posted about how Dabo is indeed recruiting "the right kinda guys", especially compared to, say, Notre Dame. (Love a link if somebody can find that.)
We're just winning every other day, when our guys are hitting the weightroom, the practice field, and the classroom, and they for the most part aren't out getting themselves in trouble.
It ain't sexy, it ain't dramatic, and it really isn't about "recruiting". It's about development, and that's where Clemson is clearly #1 by a mile.
Are we coaching up what we got? Yup. Better than anybody else, and the results are right there for anybody to see when you look at NFL draft picks produced and player grad rates. And that's the real lesson the SEC could afford to learn - but all these Saban-coaching-tree recruiters that so dominate the SEC are forever blind to. It isn't just about convincing, coercing, or even bribing talented young guys to sign on the dotted line...it's about the culture. It's about what happens to these talented young guys once they get into your system.
So the SEC can keep right on winning National Signing Day. We'll just keep winning on the field...and in the classroom.
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All-In [40100]
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Thinking the same thing, NSD may be boring this year. Will
Jan 28, 2017, 12:40 PM
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it only be more boring next? Now the between commitments are amazing, so don't mistake this for complaining.
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110%er [9300]
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Re: Thinking the same thing, NSD may be boring this year. Will
Jan 28, 2017, 4:38 PM
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Boring is good when it comes to recruiting, it means we get the guys we want and they stick to their commitment to Clemson.
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110%er [8866]
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CU Medallion [58414]
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BUT I WANT A HUGE RECRUITING CLASS!!! HOW CAN WE
Jan 28, 2017, 12:55 PM
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KEEP UP WHEN ALABAMA SIGNS 30 EVERY YEAR AND WE ONLY SIGN 14? THE SEC IS KILLING US!
SIGNED: Every T-Netter who just can't wrap their head around it even though it's been explained many times (though probably not quite so eloquently and persuasively as by Q here).
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CU Medallion [55408]
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Re: BUT I WANT A HUGE RECRUITING CLASS!!! HOW CAN WE
Jan 29, 2017, 2:47 PM
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But we are killing the SEC where it counts the most, on the Field!!!
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Hall of Famer [22318]
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Yep. Next topic please.***
Jan 28, 2017, 12:59 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Our daugher was a HS junior when Dabo was introduced as
Jan 28, 2017, 1:06 PM
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head coach and gave the now famous acceptance presser. I viewed the tape of it later in the day, and called her over. I said nothing about him, what the clip was about, nothing. Just said, "Look at this". I came back 10 minutes later, she looked up and said, "I want to go work for this guy." Right answer.
We were out of state at the time, and she did apply to be a student trainer so she could be a part of whatever he would build. It all worked out except that with what little financial help came with that job the out of state tuition was just too much. But that is beside the point.
He has built an organization that people not only want to be a part of, but know they need to be a part of. What makes Dabo Dabo, and what defines the program, has little to do with football. No one is more dedicated to winning than him, but that is the very last item at the top of a comprehensive pyramid of values and practices. So I agree with you that the quality of player we now have is not about recruiting prowess - though we do have that - but about what a young man knows he will become working for a man like Dabo.
A man like that cannot be controlled or enticed, and he will stay at Clemson exactly as long as he knows it is the best place to instill this in young men and coaches. Whatever we have to do to make sure we remain that place, we should do. It wont be about salary, and I hope our admin staff are wise enough to make it happen. But however long it is, and whatever our record is, we should be thankful for what he is to the University. If we go 8-4 a few years in a row - not likely - I hope we realize this.
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All-In [40100]
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110%er [9323]
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Equanimeous
Jan 28, 2017, 5:38 PM
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I had not heard that name...
That's a two-dollar name for sure.
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All-In [32556]
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We too deep!***
Jan 28, 2017, 2:05 PM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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+1, and agree... But puts more pressure on the staff to not
Jan 28, 2017, 2:53 PM
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miss.
further exacerbated when Dabo
hands out a questionable scholly
to the son of a former Clemson player.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: +1, and agree... But puts more pressure on the staff to not
Jan 28, 2017, 3:13 PM
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I dunno.
What's family worth? What's character worth? How many "legacy" scholies contribute to the building of a culture?
You can preach family, togetherness, support, all that...or you can walk the walk. Which sometimes "costs" you a scholie. But your locker room needs a certain number of "glue" guys, guys who bust their tails and contribute on the practice field, guys who set the work standard and bring it every day, guys who maybe aren't there to start but are there to learn the game...you think the DJ Greenlees and Seth Ryan's and the Davis boys are there to start? They're there to develop a trade...and that trade is coaching. In the meantime they're paying their dues. Football blue-bloods, maybe, from a certain perspective. But stuff is expected of them because of who they are and who their fathers were, too. I had the pleasure of talking to the Davis twins last year, and was shocked what engaging, polite, personable guys they were...and like, say, an Eric MacLain, there was zero doubt those dudes had themselves a future after football, if you catch my drift. You just want these kind of guys around.
I used to be against these legacy scholies myself...but durn if they ain't working. If the culture is what's producing the results we're seeing, it's these kind of guys who are helping build the culture, too.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: +1, and agree... But puts more pressure on the staff to not
Jan 29, 2017, 3:42 PM
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If you want to know why we need to keep up legacy scholarships, look at football vs men's basketball. BB doesn't seem to even care about former players. Think about the difference Larry Nance's sons might have made.
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All-In [32653]
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THIS post should put the legacy schollie conversation to bed
Jan 29, 2017, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: +1, and agree... But puts more pressure on the staff to not ] |
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forever.
But something tells me it won't - with the smarter then the coaches / just because we won the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP doesn't mean we can't be better group ......
HATE that group.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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huh.... don't know where I said legacy schollies were bad
Jan 29, 2017, 4:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: +1, and agree... But puts more pressure on the staff to not ] |
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just noted that the failure to have much attrition
created the situation where schollies were at a premium in ALL situations.
Yes; character is something we should play to - it's part of the package.
And yes; former players are a class we should actively court -
IN FACT IF DABO IS LISTENING
I think he should do something special for the wives of former players who have passed -
now there's a group who need to hear that we love them as part of the on-going family of Clemson.
Again, the OP noted the positives of recruiting this way; I simply noted a couple of possible downsides.
If our recruiters don't "miss" then so much the better
and further kudos to them....
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1st Rounder [624]
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I think it means they AREN'T missing on many
Jan 28, 2017, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to +1, and agree... But puts more pressure on the staff to not ] |
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so I disagree with your first point but sort of agree on the 2nd. say we have 5 spots occupied by "favors" (we'll call them), couldn't there be a kicker who can out the ball through the back of the endzone or a punter that can occasionally flip the field who would want to come to clemson on scholarship? that being said, we're National Champs so dabo has got it figured out pretty well I guess!
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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I think that was exactly my point...
Jan 29, 2017, 4:38 PM
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if we were missing a lot,
then low attrition can cause real depth problems.
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All-In [32653]
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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oh, I may be "a total tool bag"
Jan 29, 2017, 4:37 PM
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but yes, on this one your meter is broken.
TNET really needs to give reading lessons:
i.e. only read what is there....
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Legend [18133]
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CU Guru [1627]
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Re: These tiny recruiting classes are killing offseason drama
Jan 28, 2017, 3:15 PM
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You left out Demarre Kitt
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: These tiny recruiting classes are killing offseason drama
Jan 28, 2017, 3:17 PM
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Kitt was 2014.
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All-In [48078]
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Just think about our 2018's and enjoy decootments*****
Jan 29, 2017, 3:54 PM
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Legend [15216]
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We've averaged about 24 per class over the last
Jan 29, 2017, 4:45 PM
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6 years. Which is still low compared to a lot of teams. But the amount of guys we've hit on lately... 2013 class was amazing... and the lack of attrition by guys like Jadar who could've mailed it in is incredible.
I think we are still getting plenty of respect though. People are in awe of our QB situation. Not even "elite" programs sign back to back 5 star QBs.
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All-TigerNet [11188]
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Re: These tiny recruiting classes are killing offseason drama
Jan 29, 2017, 10:13 PM
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Great read. Thanks for the insight
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: These tiny recruiting classes are killing offseason drama
Jan 30, 2017, 2:17 AM
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Excellent analysis and clearly written...thank you!
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Orange Blooded [2480]
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High quality post if I've ever seen one. Outstanding, Q
Jan 30, 2017, 9:16 AM
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I really enjoy reading everything you post, thank you, and Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2883]
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bump for the worried fans...
Feb 1, 2017, 6:05 PM
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Go Tigers!!!
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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I repeat, SCar's class this year is hot garbage.***
Feb 1, 2017, 6:23 PM
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