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Topic: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB
Replies: 75   Last Post: Apr 20, 2018 4:56 PM by: allorangeallthetime52®
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The reason I want TL or HJ over KB

[31]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 7:59 AM
    Reply

KB 200 yards or less passing games:

181 yards 0 TD 0 int
140 yards 0 TD 2 int
186 yards 1 TD 0 int
200 yards 1 TD 1 int
116 yards 0 TD 0 int
191 yards 1 TD 1 int
151 yards 0 TD 0 int
124 yards 0 TD 2 int

That shouldn't be acceptable by anyone, but it is for some because we won. We have way too many playmakers to be limited by a guy who can't get them the ball.

Our team won 12 games as a team. These stats show where the team needs to improve.


THANK YOU!

[10]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:05 AM
    Reply

This crap about "KB won us 12 games, he deserves to start!" Um, no sir. The defense won us 12 games.


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB

[3]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:16 AM
    Reply

If I remember correctly, didn't our D help us out with scoring last season. Also, would we have won those games if our D hadn't scored in some of those games?

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I only saw the practice Saturday like most

[8]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:18 AM
    Reply

everyone else so that is all we can go on. I am not sure why you get crucified for stating what you saw based on that one practice. Based on Saturday, Hunter and Trevor were 1/1a (take your pick from what I saw) Chas was a close 2 and Kelly was last. I understand that we only saw that one practice but based purely on that alone. - and I have stayed out of this conversation on here because I don't care who starts if we win - but I also know what I saw Saturday. I tried to watch them on the sideline too and Kelly didn't have good body language, he just looked discouraged to me.

2018 purple level member

Re: I only saw the practice Saturday like most


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:50 AM
    Reply

I think he is just feeling the inevitable!


Re: I only saw the practice Saturday like most

[4]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:42 AM
    Reply

exactly!

No one is denying that

We saw one practice
KB was QB for 12 wins

But to speak objectively recognizing that there are likely other factors to credit regarding many of those wins or to state the obvious of that one practice is not synonymous with BASHING.

KB's lack of swag and confidence is what is most concerning to me right now and his performance Saturday did nothing to improve out. He had the opportunity to throw water on this "fire" and he threw gas.....

That in itself says something.....


Re: I only saw the practice Saturday like most


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 1:37 PM
    Reply

Fact is, KB had a golden opportunity in the spring game to step up and make a statement. For whatever reasons, he failed to do so. Fans can only go on what they see on the playing field. He had the advantage of a full years experience as the starting QB, and did nothing in the NC game against Bama, and nothing in the spring game. Not a lot to be encouraged about.


You know Dabo doesn't care "how" they win, right?

[3]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:21 AM
    Reply

Just win, he's mentioned it more than once.

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Dabo has also said “everything counts” and

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 3:36 PM
    Reply

“The spring game is important.” Dabo has a lot of messages or Daboisms.

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Of course everything counts, I've promoted nothing else.

[3]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:07 PM
    Reply

The Spring game is important, the 14 other practices this spring are important, meetings are important, class attendance[even Study Hall - see Tay] is important, everything is important concerning these young men and their progress.

What does that have to do with Dabo saying that he'd be happy rushing for 300 yards and winning? Winning and accomplishing the football goals is top of mountain - the how doesn't matter and those persons that give Clemson the best opportunity to accomplish those football goals will play first and most, all under the umbrella of life and with the program in the forefront.

He put GHop on suspension because he felt GHop needed to focus on life first and once GHop managed life, then football would follow.

Every position and the depth behind it will be based on those that give Clemson, program, culture, et al. included, the best chance to win.

There is a lot, the everything, that goes into earning that trust. Fans here[elsewhere I'm sure] worried about "eye test" last year - Dabo don't give a shyatt and said so.



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I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more

[3]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:38 AM
    Reply

stats as far as passing goes... but

KB also took car of the ball and didn't turn it over as a result of playing conservative through the air. that will be what we give up if we start to cut it loose again. So even though you think more passing stats will improve our team it also could provide a stupid loss somewhere we don't expect b/c or a late turnover by a young QB.

Basically our coaches last year decided to take the air out of the ball and let the defense win our games and play close to the vest. And that will work this year too. But when it comes to playing defenses that stop our QB run and lateral passing game.. that will be where we hit that wall again. There aren't but a handful of teams that can do that to us but it is a valid concern.


Re: I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more

[4]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:42 AM
    Reply

In those 8 games, he threw 3 TD's and 6 picks. That is absolutely terrible.


agreed.. and if that was all he was doing then i'd be ticked

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:16 AM
    Reply

but he rushed for 7 TD's in those games. And with that comes clock control/management, rest for our defense, and demoralizing opponents with playing keep away.

I'm just saying, his method works. It wins games. It may not look pretty and there may be others that can put up padding numbers far superior on this team. But its not like his deficiencies lose us games. When KB went out last year with injury we were begging for him to get back healthy. B/c he was our best chance to win.

Listen i like TL and HJ alot and think they could win us games as well and may make us a better team when they're in. But i also can't sit here and say KB isn't an asset either. He definitely is and the blueprint to an undefeated regular season. My concern with KB is CFP championships. I don't think he has the tools to beat teams that crowd the LOS and have draping DB's. That's where his weakness is exposed, bc his legs can get him out of that hole.


Re: agreed.. and if that was all he was doing then i'd be ticked

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:39 AM
    Reply

When he got hurt I was begging for the coaches to give one of Cooper or HJ all the first team reps and commit to a plan with one of them. Wanted this in order to allow for both KB's full recovery AND to build experience at that position if and when we needed it.


This this this...

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:23 PM
    Reply

I am fine with whichever QB Dabo and coaches decide to go with and will support whoever, but KB's advantage is his run game... when he hurt his ankle, my thoughts were, well at least it is before Syracuse... there is a chance against an inferior opponent to give a back up reps with first team and start ad get KB healed. I think actually playing KB hurt us more down the road then just that loss. I think it effected KB the rest of the year. He was different after he hurt his ankle then got KOd trying to protect it. I was actually mad at Dabo for leaving him when he got KO. That was on Dabo.


Re: agreed.. and if that was all he was doing then i'd be ticked

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 5:41 PM
    Reply

Stating that he's good when we're far superior means he isn't just by the way. KB "beat up" the far less superior teams all year where all he had to do was let someone make a play, unfortunately when we're even and we require QB play and control he blew it in our last game we've seen as fans and then again against another great defense in the spring game (1/2 starters too). I don't understand why people fear change, yes "he won" but how many times were opposing teams in games that they had no business being in because our defense lived on the field because the other team only had to stop the run..


Re: agreed.. and if that was all he was doing then i'd be ticked


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 1:48 PM
    Reply

KB won games? O the team won them? Seems like when we win, its KB winning, and when we lose, its the team.


Re: I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:58 AM
    Reply

Those handfull of teams are those in the playoffs!


Re: I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:08 PM
    Reply

Exactly.

Chase Brice was the most productive in the spring game, but, 3 picks, including a pick-6, negate that. DW shattered multiple passing records against Pitt, but threw 3 interceptions and we lost.

KB threw 8 interceptions last season, but 5 of those were either tipped balls or a receiver getting out hustled by the DB. (Tee Higgins will be a star, but he got pushed around like the teenager he was last season.)

No, he didn't throw for many TDs, but as a team (KB included), we ran for a lot more. DW could put us in the endzone in less than a minute, while KB led long, demoralizing, back breaking drives. Because of our defense, we also hit garbage time a lot sooner and started playing conservatively.

Our offense changed because our personnel changed. We lost a lot more than DW in the passing game, but we had a great running game and an o-line that could block for them. KB running the read option with Etienne and Feaster in the backfield was going to win us more games than letting Hunter Johnson sling it and learn on the job.

This is exactly how Alabama got to the playoffs. Defense and the running game and a QB (Hurts) who can run the ball and protect the football. The best way to destroy your football program is to let Bama get into your head.

And if y'all don't like Clemson football being about defense and the running game, y'all would have HATED the Danny Ford era.


Correct me if I'm wrong but


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:17 PM
    Reply

When did we become RB and OL U?


Re: Correct me if I'm wrong but

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 5:22 PM
    Reply

Teams can win many different ways. 'Bama wins by out-slugging everyone. Clemson wins by out-spreading everyone. FSPU won by all around excellence in 2013. I think the important thing is too clearly identify what you want to be and then be the best at it (sounds like a recent tv commercial). If KB is the qb, then Clemson has to run over everyone, meaning great blocking and top notch running. If TL or one of the others take the qb helm, then Clemson has to air it out and the receivers have to make the catches. Or maybe Clemson will play like they did in 2015-2016 with TL a reasonable facsimile to DW4. And of course, the defense has to snarl and bite in order for the Tigers to reign supreme again. Just be great at whatever you do. Sounds easy but not necessarily so. Whatever......GooooooooTigers!!!!!!


Re: Correct me if I'm wrong but


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 6:16 PM
    Reply

I think you might have missed my point. I was indirectly pointing out that we are WRU..... ball control, run left, right, middle play conservative and rely on the defense seems to waste who we are and what we have.

Admittedly we were not as experienced at the WR last year.... but this year. WHOLE NEW BALL GAME


Re: I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:53 PM
    Reply

You make some good points along with El Tigre 1, but there is one inconsistency. We have a lot of high profile WRs, and they would not have been recruited if the future plans were not to have a prolific passing game. So I do agree that last year KB was the answer due to inexperience at the QB position behind him, and the coaches had a great plan to use him. I don't believe that's gonna be the case this year though. There's more QB experience in HJ, a rare talent in TL, and probably one of the best defenses I've ever seen allowing for a little more margin in mistakes on offense. Also as others have stated, KB is a phenomenal athlete but a playoff caliber defense is likely to turn him one dimensional.

2018 white level member

Re: I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 1:53 PM
    Reply

As I seem to recall, we got crushed by Bama in the last NC game. They didn't seem the least bit daunted by Kellys' scampering. Crowded the LOS. Game over in the first quarter.


Re: I see your point and would agree i'd like to see more


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 1:13 PM
    Reply

That same scenario could happen with any factor of FB bc turn overs are an insane part of wins and losses in the game of FB. That is why they practice and coaches evaluate those practices so to choose what will work in games with the hope of the least amount error's/turn overs!!!

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Ok. The team won 12 games with KB

[3]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:52 AM
    Reply

The team won ZERO games with HJ or TL


That point is utterly, well, pointless

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:57 AM
    Reply

How many would we have won if HJ started from day one last year? TL wasnt even on campus, no way to know how many he would or wouldnt have won. Its all conjecture. All we can go on is what we have seen, which is to say, we are severely limited in what we can do offensively with KB at the helm. True, it probably wont matter against most of the schedule, but what kind of reason is that to base who you start at QB on? Who gives you the best chance to win it all this year. Thats the only question you need to ask yourself.


Re: That point is utterly, well, pointless

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:04 AM
    Reply

If hj started..Clemson would have won anywhere between 0 and 15 games.

I don't have to ask myself any questions. I'm just a fan. There are dudes who get paid millions of dollars to make that decision. I'm not so arrogant to think Im smarter than they are.


Another pointless point


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:19 AM
    Reply

First of all, the coaching staff hasnt named a starter for the Furman game, so more conjecture on your behalf. Secondly, this is a freaking message board. What? We arent supposed to have any conversations or debates? Alright every one just shut up, coach knows best, let them sort it out, see yall in September! Come on man.


These arnt points, they are facts.


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 10:35 AM
    Reply

You can post nonsense all you want pursuant to the rules of tnet. I believe that is the purpose of this board.


Re: That point is utterly, well, pointless


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:14 PM
    Reply

HJ would have beaten Syracuse, but KB wasn't 100% from the start and shouldn't have played at all.

I don't know if HJ would have beaten NC State or Miami. If we didn't beat NC State, we don't play Miami. I don't know if HJ would have beaten Auburn either. (KB scored the only TDs for either team.)

Taking care of the football isn't exciting, but it matters: Turn the ball over too much and Troy can scare you and Pitt can beat you.


Re: Ok. The team won 12 games with KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:59 AM
    Reply

Only because TL wasn't here.
KB will play in the NFL as A
WR in My Opinion !

2018 white level member

Re: Ok. The team won 12 games with KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:51 PM
    Reply

But they've never lost a game when they start either its really flawed logic


Re: Ok. The team won 12 games with KB


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 1:55 PM
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Not clear how they could have won if they weren't on the field.


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB

[4]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:53 AM
    Reply

we have so much talent on this team we probably could win 10 games with the waterboy out there at QB.....the problem is the other 5 games required to make it to the national championship game......to beat Bama and that is who we are talking about here our QB has to be two dimensional......and if he can not consistently make the down field passes we will not beat them......HJ and TL can do that but KB can not......so we will be fine with KB for most of our games which he proved last season......but I want to win it all again and do you think we can do that with KB at the helm.......Go Tigers!!!!!


Stidham is not a dual threat qb.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 8:57 AM
    Reply




Re: Stidham is not a dual threat qb.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:06 AM
    Reply

who he be......Go Tigers!!!!!


Auburn QB that beat Bama last year.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:10 AM
    Reply



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Re: Stidham is not a dual threat qb.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 10:07 AM
    Reply

He was a 4/5* dual threat recruit and runs a 4.6. That was on display against Bama where he carried 12 times for 51 yards and a TD. He’s a more selective runner but he’s absolutely still a dual threat.

2018 student level member

Would you say he was more or less a dual threat QB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 10:39 AM
    Reply

Than KB?

Off topic.
I would say auburn was able to be bama because they had a solid, dependable running game. Which is also why uga was so close to beating them. But, this guy could also be right. All you need is 1 guy to beat bama.


Not sure what "folks" believe to be a dual-threat anymore...


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:04 AM
    Reply

but his stats seem to belie the term, perhaps there's some hidden meaning? From these, it appears anything this side of Peyton Manning is a dual-threat?





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Re: Not sure what "folks" believe to be a dual-threat anymore...


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:27 AM
    Reply

Yea, but he would have had double those yards last year had he not faced Clemson's defense.

military_donation.jpg

Haha, it's all part n parcel; he's not keeping DCs sleepless


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:39 AM
    Reply

because of his legs.

Our own DW4 hated the term dual-threat because of what he considered a negative connotation, it seems some that aren't embrace it in a way and some that are such as DW4 shy away from it. I get it.

Stidham is a fine QB, but watching him last year and at Baylor, the term seems to have a very wide range, maybe even laziness from Rivals and others.

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Re: Haha, it's all part n parcel; he's not keeping DCs sleepless


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:20 PM
    Reply

To DW4, "dual-threat" was code for "a QB who can't throw or read defenses" and that calling him "dual-threat" dismissed his passing ability and hurt his NFL prospects.

Sadly, race does play a role in this because for some reason, NFL execs are a bit slow.


So in keeping with the topic, DW4 > Stidham as dual-threat?


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:45 PM
    Reply

It's really not close.

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Re: Not sure what "folks" believe to be a dual-threat anymore...


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 1:00 PM
    Reply

Dual threat means the threat exists. He runs a 4.6. His performance against Bama clearly shows that threat exists. Just because he doesn’t use that threat significantly doesn’t mean he doesn’t possess the ability to do it.

2018 student level member

Averaging 1.6 for his career doesn't constitute a threat...


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 1:27 PM
    Reply

He's not someone capable of breaking down a defense and taking it to the house on any given snap. He's not immobile by any means, but he's far from a quick twitch guy and some sacks he's taken show his inability to win with his legs.

Peyton Manning had a 33 yarder, taking advantage of a defensive lapse or void, makes someone heady not necessarily a threat. Peyton also averaged 1.6 for his career, do you think that was by choice too?

I try to understand where you & others come from in dual-threat mentality, but Stidham has not chosen to average 1.6, his skills or lack there of have constituted it. I'd say in the run category they're lacking, certainly way overrated in that category when compared to others that can run and break things down.





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Re: Would you say he was more or less a dual threat QB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:57 PM
    Reply

More. He is a far better passer and has shown he has the capacity to be a good running threat.

2018 student level member

Let's get down to the meat of the issue.

[5]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:29 AM
    Reply

Kelly Bryant is a 4th year senior with 4 years of development at Clemson University. There is no way he should have gotten out performed at a Spring Game. He should have showed up and made it evident that he was a Senior with 4 or more years of development into the system. It should have been obvious that he was the starter. If BEST is truly the Standard at Clemson then that man will not take a single snap under center this upcoming season.


Message was edited by: ChestyPuller0311®


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Our country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race.

~Chesty Puller
Lt.General United States Marine Corps


Re: Let's get down to the meat of the issue.

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:45 AM
    Reply

bingo. The bar SHOULD BE HIGHER for KB. People want to say.... "TL and HJ miss throws too!" .... um.... they have 1 year "experience" between them. KB has 3x that including a full year of starting. He should be WAAAAY ahead of these young guys. The fact that they are comparable tells me as i need to know.


Re: Let's get down to the meat of the issue.


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 2:03 PM
    Reply

A golden opportunity he just couldn't seize.


It's hard to get our stud WR's involved with those stats.

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:51 AM
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Well over a 50% chance he will have a game that isn't adequate throwing the ball.

2018 white level member

Re: It's hard to get our stud WR's involved with those stats.


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:54 AM
    Reply

For once I think we agree on something Carlsbad...

military_donation.jpg

Our country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race.

~Chesty Puller
Lt.General United States Marine Corps


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 10:41 AM
    Reply

Left out of the discussion when people praise KB for his running ability, is the fact that HJ and TL can run the ball also. Are they as good at running the ball as KB. Probably not, but we don't know. They may be.

But here's the question, are they likely as inferior to KB running as KB is to them passing?

What if we don't loose very much of what KB brings to the game, while gaining a downfield passing game?

2018 student level member

same as last year . . .

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 10:52 AM
    Reply

I want KB to be beaten out for a starting job. That is the best thing for the team. If we can be better without KB, we are a much better team. I don't want anything to be given to anyone. Beat KB for the starting spot. Always, the best player plays. I don't think that was the case late in the last season. There were times KB shouldn't have been out there. But more so this season, if someone else is better, they should be on the field.


Re: same as last year . . .


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:27 PM
    Reply

I want KB to be beaten out because that means we have somebody better than the ACCCG MVP who went 12-1 when healthy.

He also has zero chance of playing QB in the NFL. If he can find a position more suited to his future career, that would be great for everyone.


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:54 AM
    Reply

Trevor Lawrence broke off on a 13 yard run without even being touched. He followed his blockers and gained a first down. KB didn't even do that.

military_donation.jpg

Our country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race.

~Chesty Puller
Lt.General United States Marine Corps


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:41 PM
    Reply

Honestly, I would rather they not be as good at running the ball as Bryant. Bryant was one of the better pure running QBs we've had since Dantzler, and the coaches got a little too comfortable with that. Feaster and Etienne got 214 carries combined last year, and Bryant got 192 by himself. I admit that stats don't tell the whole story since Bryant was prone to tucking and running way too early on passing plays, but just from watching the games, I think he had too many called runs. RBs are here to run the ball, and we've got two really good ones that need touches. They don't need to be losing carries to a QB dive that everybody in the stadium can see coming. QBs that CAN run are great and necessary for this offense, but I want to get away from giving them so many carries.


Have you seen our running game without KB?


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 1:01 PM
    Reply

Say what you want about Etienne busting a long one... but for the most part, we are non existent on the running attack without KB. Don't know if its line related, scheme related, or personnel but we sukt last year in creating a consistent running attack since Gallman left. When a QB runs the defense loses a defender, who then has to spy the QB. And if they don't then theres a huge lane to get yards provided everyone blocks efficiently. This was an asset last year especially in the red zone. When we were in the red zone i had all the confidence in the world that we would score with KB.


Re: Have you seen our running game without KB?


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 2:39 PM
    Reply

Well another factor that others have pointed out on here is the fact that a large percentage of our rushing attack is based on the zone read and Bryant is awful at it. As for Etienne being boom or bust, you'll find that a ton of great RBs are. There's been some hammer type guys that can consistently bang out 6 or 7 yard gains, but for the most part these days, RBs get a lot of short gains offset by some huge ones. The thing that running the QB so much prevents is rhythm. I'm a firm believer in RB rhythm, and neither guy was able to get that going last year.


Re: Have you seen our running game without KB?


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 4:38 PM
    Reply

That is absolutely false...and I outlined it in my post lower down.
Kelly Bryant's ACTUAL stats vs top 40 rushing defenses:
Rushing defense:
Alabama: #1 <--0 rushing TD's
VT: #15 <--0 rushing TD's
NC State: #26 <-- 2 rushing TD's
FSU #31 <--0 rushing TD's
Auburn: #35 <-- 2 rushing TD's
SCarolina: #39 <--0 rushing TD's

Top 40 rushing defenses, he faced 6...only had rushing TD's against 2 of those 6. That's not good for being a more dominantly running QB IMO.

Etienne:
1 vs SCarolina (KB had none)
2 vs FSU (KB had none)
2 vs BC (KB also had 2)
0 vs VT (KB also had 0)
0 vs NC State (KB had 2)
didn't play in the AU game
knocked out of the Alabama game

^ he seems just as effective as KB for the running game, if you want honesty.


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 2:06 PM
    Reply

TL is very mobile.


EyeforI how did we do in the game KB was hurt and couldn't


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:19 AM
    Reply

play? However I do want you to know you make a very compelling argument! I too want the best man for the job to be our qb but there is more to leading a team than just pass completions and yardage. We had a pretty good offense last season and remember that many times we either stopped passing the ball or we put in another qb due to the fact we had large leads early in the second half. That should be taken into consideration. He had a very decent pass completion BUT I agree with you as I've said the best player should start. Nobody should have the spot given to him just because but instead should earn the job. You made a good post.

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The coaches also say this


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:25 AM
    Reply

"the best player should start"


Re: EyeforI how did we do in the game KB was hurt and couldn't


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:53 AM
    Reply

You mean when we threw in a back up who AT MOST had only half the first team reps that week of practice and had next to zero experience prior?

We did about as well as when KB was in the game.......


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:27 AM
    Reply

Amazing. You have no say in the decision.

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Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 11:27 AM
    Reply

Amazing. You have no say in the decision.

badge-donor-05yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

Your raw stats are incredibly stupid.

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 12:42 PM
    Reply

Let's take a look game-by-game to add some context.

181 yards 0 TD 0 int...
vs Auburn in a de factor season opener. You also ignore the 2 TDs that KB ran for early in the game enabling our defensive line to pin back their ears and live in the Auburn backfield. Auburn went on to allow 178 passing YPG, 13th best in the nation. Carlton Davis is, in my opinion, one of the top corners in this draft.

140 yards 0 TD 2 int...
vs Boston College, always well-disciplined and tough team that had 4 upperclassmen DBs this year with Sunday potential. They ended the year allowing 200 passing YPG, 34th nationally. They took away our screen game and played mostly zone daring us to run, which we did. And our running effectively wore them out until the 4th quarter when we outscored them 27-0. The plays that we were passing Harold Landry was living in our backfield, not Kelly Bryant's fault.

186 yards 1 TD 0 int...
@ Virginia Tech. Bud Foster is a historically great DC and this year was no different as the Hokies allowed 187 passing YPG, 21st in FBS. Another interesting point here, is that KB just didn't really throw it too much. His Y/A was a healthy 8.9. For context, Deshaun Watson only had 3 games in 2016 with a Y/A over 8.9. Kelly Bryant was great throwing the ball this game, the OCs just didn't ask him to all that much.

200 yards 1 TD 1 int...
vs Wake Forest. Okay, I'm sorry I just don't know what else you're looking for. KB was 21/29 (72%) this game. Over 70% on completions is flat out awesome, even with his Y/A falling. The yardage fell because KB came out late in the game after wearing down Wake for the 1st 3 quarters. Wake Forest average 252 passing YPG against this year, 104th in the country.


116 yards 0 TD 0 int...
@ Syracuse. Incomplete performance. He was never healthy in this game.

191 yards 1 TD 1 int...
@ NC State. Allowed 245 passing YPG this year, 97th in the country. Aside from the Sugar Bowl, this is KBs worst game. His completion % fell close to 50, Y/A fell close to 5, and he threw a pick. However, his FLOOR still included 3 TDs accounted for and seemingly a big response every time NC State scored.

151 yards 0 TD 0 int...
vs Florida State. Allowed 201 YPG through the air, 36th in FBS. KB capitalized in the redzone early with his legs. Led another strong drive before half that broke down at the goal line. Couldn't really make much happen in the 2nd half. Another poor performance against a talented DL.

124 yards 0 TD 2 int...
@ Alabama. Not going to sit here and defend him from this game. Needs to play better. Sh!t happens.

2018 orange level member

I appreciate the breakdown here


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 2:46 PM
    Reply

but don't you think its ironic that while touting some of these defenses, we didn't beat ONE of the averages you note? Not ONE... and were supposed to be a national contender.

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Re: Your raw stats are incredibly stupid.


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 3:49 PM
    Reply

The stats say exactly what I mentioned. There's no need to breakdown every point. We are a program known for putting up big numbers in the passing game, which is why we consistently put 1st rounders into the NFL, and why 5* receivers come here. We are not an average team, so these teams shouldn't be holding us below their season average.

Question, what do all these games have in common? We either loss, or the game was closer than we would like.

At Clemson, with this much talent at the skill position, you should never have 7 sub 200 yard games. I don't care about his legs. Hes a QB, not a RB. Honestly he's not a great runner either, I'd say he's average for a dual threat. We need a guy who can get the ball down field.


Re: Your raw stats are incredibly stupid.


Posted: Apr 19, 2018 9:11 PM
    Reply

You realize that not once did WRU meet or exceed the average passing yards allowed (against the teams where you included it)

You can say we met it once.... missed by 1 yard. But I think those stats are an indictment on KB as a passer.....


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 3:58 PM
    Reply

I'll post in here what I did in another topic adding and reiterating what some have said, with a little addition I haven't seen people mentioning.

If you are going to look at the good, you also have to look at the other side that people who would like one of the passing QB's to get a look are looking at. It's not as "nice and pretty as you think"

All teams with bigger defenses circled (minus Miami, the one exception game):


- Up until Miami, a post season game, he never broke 200 yards or over in passing against any of the better defenses he faced...that includes VT and FSU. Louisville had a bad defense honestly....and Lamar was their entire offense. They aren't the top defense they were a few years back.

Let's look at passing efficiency defense rankings:
Team Passing Efficiency Defense:
Alabama: #2
BC: #3
FSU: #10. <-- don't forget this was a 2-6 record team when we played them
AU: #19
Miami: #23
VT: #26
NC State: #55
GT: #62
Louisville: #70

Rushing defense:
Alabama: #1 <--0 rushing TD's
VT: #15 <--0 rushing TD's
NC State: #26 <-- 2 rushing TD's
FSU #31 <--0 rushing TD's
Auburn: #35 <-- 2 rushing TD's
SCarolina: #39 <--0 rushing TD's

Out of those in the top 30...Miami was the only team he exceeded 200 yards on in passing....however, still no more than just 1 passing TD. Just comprehend that for a second....there isn't a team on there he passed for more than 1 TD, several he had none. Top 40 rushing defenses, he faced 6...only had rushing TD's against 2 of those...just 2 of 6. That's not good for being a more dominantly running QB IMO.

With that said, it shows that though at times some plays were done well or okay, it wasn't consistent and it wasn't elite either. It also shows that though we won those games, it really wasn't always Bryant that was the reason...many times, the D helped, but let's not forget about Feaster, Etienne, and Choice in the equation either (Etienne and Choice made 2 of the TD's in each of the Louisville and Miami games and 3 of the TD's of the FSU game; Etienne made 2 of them in the BC game). These guys stay a constant...regardless which QB sits behind center.


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2018 5:43 PM
    Reply

Would you rather have 2 interceptions and 6 TD, or 6 interceptions and 25 touchdowns Just asking?


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 1:34 PM
    Reply

Those should have been the stats of our BACKUP qb last year.


Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 2:35 PM
    Reply

or a QB prior to the Chad Morris offense change era, FWIW:




Re: The reason I want TL or HJ over KB


Posted: Apr 20, 2018 4:54 PM
    Reply

Absolutely correct, and it can cause an elite WR to go somewhere that they can get the ball thrown to them anywhere on the field, they don't want to be somewhere where they would be limited in getting the ball thrown to them!!!

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