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Orange Blooded [3677]
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The ACC looks pretty daum strong to me ! (long)
Dec 7, 2012, 7:56 PM
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I try to stay out of all this conference realignment BS because it upsets me. Relationships and associations that have gone on for 58 years go "puff" over a couple of bucks . I really hated losing Maryland, a charter member.
In 1954 the Atlantic Coast Conference was formed:
Clemson
South Carolina
Wake Forest
Duke
NC State
North Carolina
Virginia
Maryland
Eight pretty good all around schools
Everyone knows the rest of the story, Scar leaves over a basketball thing and it was a 7 team conference for years with CU dominating football. Then it became diluted with expansion.
Enough history.
After reading the current member presidents letter of ACC solidarity I could not help thinking WOW this is not a bad look. I just could not shake it, had not really looked at it.
Now the conference has a dominant footprint on the entire East coast, from South Florida to Syracuse New York. All members with impecable academic standards and athletic respectability.
Syracuse, Pittsburg and Louisville are strong additions, I still hate that Maryland is gone.
Face it, this conference owns the East Coast.
Although I hate these big conferences , lets give this one a chance . Looks to be a strong contender in basket ball And football.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:And it will get stronger. I am not missing Maryland.***
Dec 7, 2012, 8:04 PM
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110%er [7390]
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They were only good for hoops n' whoop! Now we have Pitino
Dec 7, 2012, 8:08 PM
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n' yet another 'the best football team left in the Big Least'.
If we don't go to the SEC soon, I hope Texas goes to the B1G with us.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:We will do neither.***
Dec 7, 2012, 8:10 PM
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CU Guru [1322]
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It still baffles me why "academics" is so important in an
Dec 7, 2012, 8:13 PM
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Athletic conference. 80,000 people don't show up in Clemson for a chess match. Academics is important to a school but not a conference. Yet, because the ACC has faulty athletics, its cheerleaders must trumpet the conference's academic prowess. In the end, the ACC still sacrifices its academic principals with the inclusion of Louisville. Pathetic conference.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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It is about all around school and conference pride
Dec 7, 2012, 8:21 PM
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I am sure I am a bit naive about this concept, but I still believe there is such a thing as a student athlete.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: The ACC looks pretty daum strong to me ! (long)
Dec 7, 2012, 8:22 PM
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Whatever makes you feel better. The ACC is crumbling! The ACC has been unable to adjust to the new climate in NCAA sports. The lack of understanding from the conference leaders and the school presidents has led the conference to a place it might not be able to escape from. The worst thing you could do is add ND. With the deal they would dictate the money situation would just get worse for the ACC. As much as you may not like it the life blood of college sports is now $$$$$$$$$$. Adapt or die!
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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that is so sad, if true it will be the end of a great
Dec 7, 2012, 8:32 PM
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American tradition
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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What is really sad is how SEC Member institutions like
Dec 7, 2012, 8:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: The ACC looks pretty daum strong to me ! (long) ] |
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SCar, UGA, and Florida would block the only natural fit for great schools like FSU and Clemson( out of the fear of being out recruited). Some want to hold onto whatever advantage in "touting" a conference that they have never even won, and others just want to flex the little power that they have. Now because of all of this Cable TV $$$$ we will see decades long-regional rivalries die. If this stuff happens and SCar blocks us out of the SEC and we have to go west, I say drop them from the schedule. I want nothing to do with them.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Why would we leave ?
Dec 7, 2012, 9:41 PM
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This is the point of my post, all of you all up in arms about $$$$$$$$ and I am not sure you really know about it but are just jumping on a suppossed issue.
Its what it is as it stands, and it looks pretty good.
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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There is a growing gap of $$$ that we ACC schools get
Dec 7, 2012, 10:21 PM
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from TV contracts that our SEC competitors get. They are able to afford better coaches, facilities, etc. Also, once the 4 team playoff starts, these conferences will most likely jockey to get to 16(+) teams to obtain AQ status. The ACC looks to be the odd man out. With teams already bolting due to low revenues(small TV payouts), the writing is on the wall. If/when FSU leaves, do you still want to stay on the sinking Titanic, or find a way onto a ship that will remain topside? Trust me, I hope that this is all wrong and we can stay, but logic stears me in this direction. We used to be in the Southern Conference...I don't want to go back.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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We have the highest paid coordinators inthe country
Dec 7, 2012, 10:25 PM
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now
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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And got a WR coach for the head of the program for it
Dec 7, 2012, 10:44 PM
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Dabo is taking less pay than Saban, Spurrier, Miles, etc for that to happen. Dabo is smart. It saved his own skin and may buy himself time to grow into the position even more. I Like Dabo. I am pulling hard for him, but you have to admit, he would not ever have been a coach for a SEC team at this point. More money would allowed Clemson to go out and hire a proven coach instead of "hoping" that this gamble will pay off.....and waste another 10 years of our lives waiting for us to become relevant again on the National scene.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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and you are unhappy with two 10 win seasons and
Dec 7, 2012, 10:48 PM
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an ACC championship in just 4 years ? Glad I don't work for you !
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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You aren't listening( or reading me correctly)
Dec 7, 2012, 11:06 PM
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I am pleased what Dabo has done. I am pulling hard for him. I hope that he continues to do well and keeps it growing. But common man, you have to admit that he is the benefactor of a miserable conference. BC used to be great, VT was a powerhouse, Miami, Maryland and NCSU could hang with most teams in the country. GT would give people fits and lost to MTSU. Even the mighty FSU lost to a crummy NCSU team and could not beat FL. Our conference is going down fast in talent(other than FSU and us) and Dabo caught it at the right time. He is a heckuva recruiter and a great motivator. I want him to grow into the job and would love to have him here as a legacy coach if he can get to the next level. I am just afaid that his results are fluffed by the condition on our beloved conference( you have to admit, this defense is one of the worst we have EVER seen here, and we still win in the conference) and we can't seem to win a decent game out of conference. That is the real measuring stick.
The Dabo experiment is not over. So far he is passing, but is he does not beat LSU, SCar or UGa, then you will have a big measure of where we and he is.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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nice post, agree in most areas
Dec 7, 2012, 11:20 PM
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But, tHE GOAL IS TO WIN THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP first.
You can not believe that we should jump up and contend for the nC overnight. be real.
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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Thanks. I do agree with you. I am not expecting to compete
Dec 7, 2012, 11:29 PM
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with Alabama or Oregon just yet, but I do think that we should be able to keep up with SCar and UGa. They don't have anything on us with the schools, campuses or education. So what is it? Coaching and recruiting. We should be able to beat these guys pretty often, but we haven't. Time will tell soon!
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Re: Thanks. I do agree with you. I am not expecting to compete
Dec 8, 2012, 12:42 AM
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I hate USC as much as you but they are a pretty darn good team right now. Hard to say it but it's true. This isn't the old Gamecock teams we used to slap around.(For the moment)
It will turn around and life will be good again.
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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I guess my point is that if we have higher revenues, we
Dec 7, 2012, 11:22 PM
[ in reply to You aren't listening( or reading me correctly) ] |
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could afford to go out and hire a big name proven winner instead of always going with the guy that has had some sucess on the lower levels. I admit that it seems to be working up to now, but if it stalls and goes no futher in the upward direction, are you content?. I would not be and would want to have the resources to be able to make the change and get the big fish. Here is to hoping that we don't need to and that we can keep Dabo as our HC. I guess that 30 years has made me tired of mediocrity. We are close, but how close? Lets talk after the Bowl.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Don't get me wrong, I respect many of your posts
Dec 7, 2012, 11:29 PM
[ in reply to You aren't listening( or reading me correctly) ] |
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but from the date of your mebership, I have to assume that you are a bit young.
Things don't happen overnight, no instant gratification here. Clemson is not the only team in the mix, there are 124 or so all with scholarship athletes . You play the schedule that is all you can do. Go 10-2 and never, NEVER lose to and inferior opponent... I'll take that all day and all night.
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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Yeah, I know. Your'e right. It take time. I guess that I am
Dec 7, 2012, 11:43 PM
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just tired of waiting. I was there when we beat Oklahoma, Penn St and WV in Bowl games. When we started and finished the season in the top 10. We ahve been "wandering" for 20-30 years. I just want to make sure that we are heading up and not just being "propped up" by others takin a step back.
BTW- Dabo "winning" was what got me on this site and computer when I did- hence the late joining
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Connoisseur [364]
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Re: What is really sad is how SEC Member institutions like
Dec 8, 2012, 12:35 AM
[ in reply to What is really sad is how SEC Member institutions like ] |
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There is no blocking going on. The SEC just doesn't see the advantage of those three schools.
Would it surprise you to learn that both Spurrier and Pastides have publicly supported having Clemson in the SEC?
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All-American [580]
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Carolina didn't leave the ACC because of basketball.
Dec 7, 2012, 8:33 PM
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It was because of football. Yes, Frank had his issues with the ACC. And he went along with our withdrawal, as a loyal soldier. But he actually did not want to leave the ACC and, said as much years later. But thankfully our BOT did not listen to Frank; rather, they listened to Paul Dietzel. And yes, it was a bad move for 20 years. But, as the saying goes ________ "Alls well that ends well" _____ since we ended up in the SEC.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Thanks for the historical correction, I was a bit blurred on
Dec 7, 2012, 8:39 PM
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that. Do you recall what the football issue was ? I would like to remember.
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110%er [7390]
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Spurrier wasn't done panting in Florida.***
Dec 7, 2012, 8:44 PM
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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uncalled for, we are having a reasonable and repectful
Dec 7, 2012, 8:48 PM
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discussion of history
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110%er [7390]
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I sincerely apologize for my wrongness, but..
Dec 7, 2012, 9:38 PM
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I'm afraid the Spurrier nightmares may not entirely be behind me. I won't be well 'til we destroy LSU.
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All-American [580]
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Thanks, I remember now, vaguely, a little about that
Dec 7, 2012, 8:52 PM
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Thanks for the info.
I believe SC was an independent along with Miami and BC and a few others for quite a while.
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110%er [8095]
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The ACC has always valued academics. USuC: not so much
Dec 7, 2012, 10:19 PM
[ in reply to The ACC at the time had a higher SAT requirement for ] |
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And clearly don't now. Less than 39% graduation rate for football players is PATHETIC. The bottom of the barrell at USuC
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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There was a series of articles by The State done many
Dec 7, 2012, 8:53 PM
[ in reply to Carolina didn't leave the ACC because of basketball. ] |
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years ago when it managed to get a lot of interoffice memos and letters from Dietzel's athletic dept in which it showed convincingly that is WAS cheatin' Frank McGuire who spearheaded (literally demanded) usuck's exit from the ACC. McGuire yielded vastly more influence in the Athletic Dept and amongst the politically connected on the BOT during that time period than did the football coach. McGuire's basketball program was, until recently, the ONLY nationally recognized sports program in usuck's history.
As I remember from The State piece, Dietzel was at first hesitant but eventually agreed to back McGuire's desire to get out of an ACC weighted heavily towards Tobacco Rd.
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All-American [580]
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I don't recall reading that. But I do recall going to
Dec 7, 2012, 8:59 PM
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Gamecock Club meetings in the late 70s hearing McGuire give a different story than that. Regardless, make no mistake about it: Paul Dietzel wanted out. It was a runningback, out of Georgia I believe. His first name was Isaac. I can't recall his last name. But, he was the final straw for Dietzel, when they couldn't get Isaac in.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Interesting, that is kind of how I remembered it
Dec 7, 2012, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to There was a series of articles by The State done many ] |
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but I do not dispute the other guys memory either.
Both cases probably had some influence .
Thanks
Interesting times back then
And now they rear their ugly heads again, exponintially.
Just goes to show to know your history for it will forever come back
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All-American [580]
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The other guy got me to remembering something Paul Dietzel
Dec 7, 2012, 9:10 PM
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said a couple of years ago when he was in Columbia visiting the university. He responded to a question from a local reporter that McGuire was against leaving the ACC. Dietzel said that was not so and that McGuire was indeed for leaving the ACC. Of course, McGuire is not around to defend himself. But I did hear Frank say repeatedly say he had been against the move. McGuire and Dietzel did not get along. McGuire and Jim Carlen didn't get along either. But I recall now Paul also saying that he (Dietzel) spearheaded leaving the ACC, glad he did and that he would have done it again, knowing what he knew some 40 years later. Regardless, I'm glad we got out.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Sorry Neilly, for calling you the "other guy"
Dec 7, 2012, 9:14 PM
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I was just too lazy to go back and verify the name. I meant no disrespect
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All-American [580]
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No problem__No problem___no problem at all.
Dec 7, 2012, 9:16 PM
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***
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110%er [6937]
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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come on now Peanut, we are having a great discussion
Dec 7, 2012, 9:19 PM
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He was invited and very interesting . Lets not always jump to the venom. Both These fellows have facinating memories of this era. Please do not taint a great discussion with silly comments. I repect you as well but there is a time for that stuff but just not now.
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All-American [551]
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All-TigerNet [12532]
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The ACC did own the east coast BEFORE the
Dec 7, 2012, 8:50 PM
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BigTen took Maryland and got Rugters from the BigEAst. Now there is a BIGTEn stamped over the states of Pennsylvania, MAryland and New Jersey.
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110%er [8681]
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Assuming
Dec 7, 2012, 9:05 PM
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That us, FSU, and Louisville keep up with our recent success, chances are beamer will bring back VT to at a consitant 9 game winner. If Al Golden can bring da U, the acc could be pretty strong in football. Also Fedora might do some good things at UNC. Just to clear things up I don't support staying in the ACC nor do I support changing conferences I just want what's best for Clemson
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All-TigerNet [13879]
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Once again those that think this conference is great fail
Dec 7, 2012, 9:35 PM
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to address the financial disparity between the football schools (Clemson and FSU) and their rivals (South Carolina and Florida) which is signficant every year with their conference's network deals and bowl tie ins. Having a few good teams in the ACC may help in terms of the league gaining respect but if no one watches the games or cares about Pitt vs North Carolina it hurts badly. Only Clemson, FSU, VT and Louisville really care about football and I don't see that changing anytime soon. This is about $$$$$$ more than anything and ACC apologists have not explained how we can catch up with the the BIG, Big 12, Pac 12 and SEC.
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Commissioner [942]
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The financial disparity between us (and ACC) and SC (and SEC
Dec 7, 2012, 9:44 PM
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will get worse. The SEC will reap the rewards from an $80 million Sugar. The ACC will have the $55 million Orange Bowl. And I dread to see what the new SEC TV deals that Slive gets them plus a SEC Network. Clemson fans who ignore all that have their heads in the sand.
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Starter [382]
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Re: The financial disparity between us (and ACC) and SC (and SEC
Dec 7, 2012, 9:49 PM
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I read where USuC will take in over 100 million more bucks of the next 5 years than CU...Not a real level playing field if you ask me...
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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why do we, you and I the college football fan
Dec 7, 2012, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to Once again those that think this conference is great fail ] |
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care about the finances of the whole deal which is far above our pay grade . Just give me college football and let the people that have expertise in the other areas worry about it.
we can't controll that, so why fret over it.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: The ACC looks pretty daum strong to me ! (long)
Dec 7, 2012, 9:48 PM
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A couple of bucks!
Seven teams,then it becomes diluded by expansion!
Yet the teams it adds are the same teams that dot the East Coast from S.Florida to Syracuse thus becoming a dominant footprint on the entire East coast( your words).
Now bear with me.
You hate big conferences,but you want to give this one a chance.You say we are a strong contender in basketball ,and as what appears to be an afterthought,you mention football.
Yea,the ACC looks pretty strong to me.I guess that's why our strong conference got waxed 0-4 the last weekend of the season by some conference called the SEC,which has a representive playing for the MNC for a 7th straight year.
Maybe I'm tired,but not tired enough to recommend that you heed your own advice and stay away from all this conference realigment BS because you have no clue as to how strong this conference is.
Conference realigment is about football.Basketball is secondary.And as of today the ACC is secondary when it comes to football.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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My point was that i loved the 7 team conference
Dec 7, 2012, 10:04 PM
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everyone played everyone every year, there was a clear champion in all sports. The schools had close relationships. I use to travel to all games home and away.
Then GT was added, I could live with that making 8 teams and eliminating a bye in the ACC tourney. The other expansion I hated , thought it intruded on the sanctity of the ACC, I really hated adding the thugs from Miami.
But after all these years I can't fight it so might as well welcome it, can't control it.
I just don't see why everyone thinks they are an expert on finance, or how it effects the average me and you.
15 years ago none of us would even be privy to this info, we would just go on being football fans. So it is today, it might be fun to some to have access to this information, but in the end its the same thing...something you nor I have any input in.....sO GO TIGERS, GO ACC
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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I liked the rivalries too, but witnessing what some of these
Dec 7, 2012, 10:33 PM
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sister ACC schools think about Clemson and the things that they would say about us was downright insulting. UVA,UM, UNC, DUKE and GT have looked down thier noses at us for years. Then to find out that FOOTBALL revenue is responsible for @ 80% of the normal AD budget for these schools, and that almost all of them don't even cover their own costs! They rely on schools like FSU, VT and Clemson to share Bowl/TV revenue to keep them afloat. It is obvious that they don't share the same vision concerning FOOTBALL and therefore it might be time to join with those that do.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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waht did they say about us ?***
Dec 7, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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I went to post graduate school with several people from
Dec 7, 2012, 10:51 PM
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UNC, UVA, one from Duke, and even worked with a UM grad. They all make fun of Clemson's academics the way that we all scoff at SCar. We are the joke to them of the ACC. WE are the football thugs that don't "cut the mustard" with their finer institutions. I know that it is a handful sample, but it always seems to be the same story for others that have had the same kind of exposure to them. I know that we are not Harvard, but I am Darn proud of where Clemson put me in life. I guess that I am not as emotionally tied to them because of such.
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110%er [5912]
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Re: I went to post graduate school with several people from
Dec 7, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Comparatively speaking, what is the difference between their rankings and Clemson and Clemson and usc?
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Orange Blooded [2659]
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I have too, except from those snobs form the institutions
Dec 7, 2012, 11:09 PM
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that I listed. Everyone else has been great
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CU Medallion [51918]
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CU Guru [1198]
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Re: The ACC looks pretty daum strong to me ! (long)
Dec 7, 2012, 10:54 PM
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The ACC does own the east coast, but it still can't get the same TV revenue deal as the other conferences. I think the deal is being dragged down by having many programs that don't have many football fans. Having four programs in the same state also hurts.
If the ACC could drop Wake, Duke, and BC it could get a much better TV deal, but that's not going to happen.
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CU Guru [1904]
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Re: Re: The ACC looks pretty daum strong to me ! (long)
Dec 7, 2012, 11:14 PM
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I hate to agree true a coot, but that's 100% true. The Big 12 is the best bet.
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CU Medallion [51918]
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Founded in 1953***
Dec 8, 2012, 12:54 AM
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.
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Orange Blooded [3677]
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Thanks , that is right.
Dec 8, 2012, 2:30 PM
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The only reason I got as close as I did was I knew it was about as old as me LOL!
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