»
Topic: Take a Good Look
Replies: 24   Last Post: Feb 22, 2019 4:15 PM by: Smiling Tiger®
[ Tiger Boards - Basketball ]
Start New Topic
Replies: 24  

Take a Good Look


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:14 PM
    Reply

At the current ACC Standings. Every team above us in the Standings ( with the possible exception of VT ) has had a strong if not great basketball tradition. FSU even has a tradition and they are in a metropolitan area which tends to attract basketball players more. Clemson basketball will always be a struggle in the ACC. It's just a fact no matter who our coach is.


Also we don't spend adequate $ on basketball and

[2]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:21 PM
    Reply

KJ left for the NBA a year early

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.


Re: Also we don't spend adequate $ on basketball and

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:25 PM
    Reply

It's not big deal anymore that KJ left because Zion's injury has him rethinking things.

I'm expecting that his injury will force a change in his priorities.

Expect a transfer announcement soon.

Zion is wishing he would have signed up for the Clemson experience.

It probably doesn't hurt that recently Dabo said he would bench Trevor to let Zion play QB.


Clemson doesn’t spend money on basketball because Clemson


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:24 PM
    Reply

Doesn’t make money on basketball. The University of Louisville has revenue of over $40 million on basketball Clemson has less than 4 million in revenue in basketball. Clemson fans don’t spend money on basketball nor do they have much interest in the game so Clemson University doesn’t spend money on basketball/


Re: Clemson doesn’t spend money on basketball because Clemson


Posted: Feb 22, 2019 8:36 AM
    Reply

"Clemson fans don’t spend money on basketball nor do they have much interest in the game so Clemson University doesn’t spend money on basketball/ "

You do realize that this is the "chicken and the egg" argument - right? Or the "Build it and they will come" argument - right?

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement. There are lots of CLEMSON BBall fans that would come, or just watch, if CLEMSON managed to put a really good team on the floor. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen in my lifetime.


Never say never

[2]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:32 PM
    Reply

Clemson is a tough place to win basketball games compared to Duke, UNC, etc... but to suggest it can't/won't ever be done is just flat wrong.

Example #1: UCONN / Men's basketball. The campus is located in rural/country Connecticut far away from major metropolitan areas. The State of CT doesn't produce enough basketball talent to field a top 25 program on its own, it needs to recruit from NYC, Philly, South, Mid-west, and Westcoast to be a Big-Time program. Enter Jim Calhoun....he took over a perennial door-mat, loser, laughingstock of a basketball program in 1987 devoid of any major basketball pedigree, history, or
tradition and turned them into a powerhouse. He won 3 National Championships, and Kevin Ollie won a 4th NC with his players. Exit Jim Calhoun....UCONN stinks.

It can be done.


Re: Never say never


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 3:24 PM
    Reply

U Conn is as close to Hartford as Clemson is to Anderson. But, basketball has always been a big city game to me. One big time player out of the Bronx and the Tigers Will roll!


Re: Never say never


Posted: Feb 22, 2019 7:35 AM
    Reply

Hartford isn't exactly a hotbed for major D1 baskeball talent. Guess who the last big-time talent to come out of Hartford was? Marcus Camby.....and he went to UMASS.

UCONN didn't win a single one of it's 4 National Championships National Championship with a player from Hartford.

UCONN, UNC, UK, UF, DUKE, INDIANA, etc....

It can be done.


Thanks Brad.***

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:38 PM
    Reply



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

'metropolitan area' has next to nothing to do with it


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:51 PM
    Reply

there were successful programs in Lexington KY, Lawrence KS, and Chapel Hill NC when they were still small towns (with Lexington being the biggest by far)


Re: 'metropolitan area' has next to nothing to do with it


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 1:58 PM
    Reply

Metropolitan area? Have you been to Tallahassee?


Exactly. This idea here that basketball is an "inner city"

[2]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:03 PM
    Reply

sport and nothing else is silly. Basketball is an all-American sport played throughout the country by virtually all high schools.

Much talent comes from non-urban areas.

Plenty of good college basketball programs aren't in urban areas. In fact, it's amazing to me how few good programs are located in big cities. New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Boston, etc. don't have any current college basketball powers.

If it were all about being in an urban area recruiting urban players, you would expect some of the best programs to be located in big cities - but they aren't.

2019 white level member

Re: Exactly. This idea here that basketball is an "inner city"

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:19 PM
    Reply

It is simple statistics. You only have 0.0X% of players with NBA level talent. A town of 100 vs a town of 1 million is going to (statistically) produce at about the same rate, so investing in Honea Path vs Charlotte is gnot a great strategy. Heck, Clemson football still steals talent from larger metro areas... and GA/Florida. Sure the small towns are going to product talent, just not the volume of talent. Even then the talent it 'advertised' a bit more. Vernon Hamilton went to Benedictine in Richmond but grew up 15 miles south in a smaller "village" called Chester (at least in his early HS years). So even the private urban schools import talent to showcase compared to the less urban areas.

Other thing is regional context. If you are in Alabama and you are a 0.0X% "professional" athlete, which sport will you invest in? Ask Justyn Ross. If you are in Jersey... ehhh, who knows. We are in a hotbed where the best athletes play football, in the north east/mid-west more play basketball. In places where there is less space (cities) then basketball is easier to accommodate.

Next, everyone knows where the talent generators are located. Remember bobby cremmons NYC pipeline for guards? Why does Clemson steal talent from NC and GA? Having the recruits in you back yard helps, but it is not a 100% guarantee as top programs poach.

Los Angles has the most dominant tenure of the sport most due to massive population upswing during their rise.

But the best programs tend to be *just* outside a major metro/hotbed... or are the "closest" major power to a major city. See UCONN rise, Cuse. Even Nova and Georgetown are treats.

This isn't to say Clemson can't, just the road is a lot harder.


that's mostly nonsense

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:36 PM
    Reply

couple of things i won't argue with

but this line made me laugh: "Los Angles has the most dominant tenure of the sport most due to massive population upswing during their rise. "

John Wooden and illegal benefits were the main reasons for their success


Re: that's mostly nonsense


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:48 PM
    Reply

It isn't like other schools were "playing hard" and didn't have good coaches. California's population tripled postwar. Much of their college success can be attributed to great number of "boomers" entering the college system in the 60s and 70s. Cali surpassed NY for population in 1970 and this applied to other schools such as USC football most successful era (60s/70s) and I would assume this applies to other sports. I think even Arizona was a beneficiary for this.

Heck, you can make a similar case for Florida in the late 80s as that is when they boomed. I just can't explain Texas but I will assume the issue is Texas.


In most years, the state of SC produces more D1 bball


Posted: Feb 22, 2019 2:48 AM
    Reply

players, than it does football. But most of those players leave the state, to play basketball elsewhere.

2019 white level member

Spot on. Great high school basketball players are the


Posted: Feb 22, 2019 4:15 PM
    Reply

same kids as great high school football players, and we have no trouble attracting the best of those. There is absolutely NOTHING intrinsic to Clemson, nothing we can't change, that would prevent us from attracting better basketball talent. Nothing. What do we have in football that we don't have in basketball? Much better football tradition (which is an important difference), better football facilities, and better all-around commitment from the university. That's it. ALL of that can change, and if we are going to have a basketball program, we should commit, and I mean go "all-in" to change it.

2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: 'metropolitan area' has next to nothing to do with it

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:04 PM
    Reply

Lawrence is 45 mins from Kansas City (2.1 million)
Lexington is 70 minutes from Cincy (2.1 million) Plus Louisville 500,000K
CH is in the Triangle (2.1 million)

Clemson as a part of the Greenville metro area 800,000K


Still, all of those programs invested hard into the BB program very early (like what we did with football). They also had very successful long-tenued coaches during the mid-century/later that resulted in many titles. Allen: 39 years 3 titles, a few RU. Smith 36 years, 3 titles, a few RU. Rump 40 years, 4 titles.


Re: 'metropolitan area' has next to nothing to do with it


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 3:18 PM
    Reply

And Tallahassee has <200,00. It's a little bigger than Columbia, and almost as dirty.


Re: 'metropolitan area' has next to nothing to do with it


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 3:44 PM
    Reply

And show me their years of being a basketball powerhouse.... They are a 1/2 title ahead of us (during one of the weakest ACC years: only 5 tourney teams, only Cheat got past the first weekend I think... Juke lost to 15 seed, FSU to Cincy,). Hamilton is a good coach

It isn't that you must be "big" but you can't be 17,000 small like Clemson. We are small. Plus, they have less "regional" competition... it isn't like Bama, Auburn, or Georgia is really sniping off talent.


Faulty logic.***


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 2:45 PM
    Reply



2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Everett Case and Frank Mcguire

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 3:28 PM
    Reply

Got ACC basketball rolling in the 50s and not from small cotton mill towns.


Frank McGuire wasn't recruiting Orange, Durham & Wake


Posted: Feb 21, 2019 11:08 PM
    Reply

Counties when he brought home unc's first basketball NC in '58 or '59.....all his players were recruited straight out of NYC.....something he continued to do at usuck after he was run out of chapelhole...a victim of one of the several payola scandals that plagued college basketball during that time period.

Your post is center target

2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Sure glad Frank Howard, Danny Ford, and Dabo Swinney

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 7:07 PM
    Reply

never thought like that.

Or Bill Wilhelm.

Or Ibrahim.

Or Davis

And can't wait till I can say the same about a Clemson Men's Basketball Coach.

LORD willin', I'll live long enough to.


I couldn’t disagree more.

[1]
Posted: Feb 21, 2019 9:10 PM
    Reply

We can be a dominant basketball program. We just have to decide if we want to be, and invest accordingly.

It’s silly to conclude that we can’t be great at basketball, especially since we’ve never tried.

2019 white level member

Replies: 24  

TIGER TICKETS

FB GAME: Season Tickets
FOR SALE: (2) Section Q row X...$2500 for the pair. Email if interested. Go Tigers!!

Buy or Sell CU Tickets and More in Tiger Tickets!

[ Tiger Boards - Basketball ]
Start New Topic
1932 people have read this post