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Topic: Scholarship Players Protesting Conditions
Replies: 34   Last Post: Aug 4, 2020 1:26 PM by: strack
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Replies: 34  

Scholarship Players Protesting Conditions

emoji_events [12]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 8:13 PM
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They freely and willingly accepted are truly showing bad faith and an inability to keep a promise. If you are sooo committed to this cause resign your scholarship and I support you 100%. Anyone now working for an employer knows how quickly you would be let go for protesting openly against said employer. If you want to form a union and collectively bargain then do so and like they say “throw the dice”. Man up and commit one way or the other.

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So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?

[3]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 8:47 PM
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You really have no idea what's going on. The reason this is happening is because the virus has shown us all that in the eyes of the universities, the athletes are strictly commodities. And the athletes see it, too. They see hundreds of lesser college sports having to be cut across the country because of COVID. They understand that football pays for it ALL. They understand that they are the bodies that make football happen. And they understand the power that brings.

What world are you living in? You think a university is going to ax the very players they depend on to earn those billions? No. No freaking way. Why do you think Gundy recorded two separate videos in response to a t-shirt? Because he understands that the tables have turned, and the black athletes aren't going to come play for a tone-deaf coach or university that clearly doesn't care about them except in terms of the dollars football (and basketball) can generate.

How you can be so obtuse as to miss what's actually happening? Because it's right in front of your eyes. These universities NEED these athletes. BADLY. ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR!!!!! And so like any smart group, these athletes are playing their hand--for health, for justice, for financial equity. THEY DON'T NEED TO GIVE UP THEIR SCHOLARSHIPS. THEY UNDERSTAND THEY HAVE THE POWER TO KEEP THE SCHOLARSHIPS AND STILL ASK FOR MORE. I used all-caps because I thought that would really drive my point home. Did it work?

The reason YOU can't protest against YOUR employer--and the reason many of your like-minded buddies can't either--is because YOU aren't as good as what YOU do as the athletes are at what THEY do. The athletes are more valuable in THEIR role than YOU are in YOURS. If YOU were as valuable in YOUR role, YOU could make demands of YOUR employer. But you're NOT. Got it? The athletes generate BILLIONS of dollars for TV networks and universities and god knows who else. That gives the athletes a little something most of us call LEVERAGE. But YOU don't generate BILLIONS of dollars, thereby lessening your LEVERAGE.

I really can't believe there are people out here who don't understand that things have changed... and they've changed a lot!! But I guess it'll sink in eventually that the world you lived in five months ago is gone.


Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?

[3]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 8:51 PM
    Reply

Does football pay for it all, or do the donors pay for it all? I think we are close to finding out.


you're going to see that football players have little value

emoji_events [14]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:02 PM
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after all. Yep, the world has changed and Americans are ready to give up things. Things like football. Which means being a football player gets you nothing. This is a blip and leeches like you will suffer in the long run.

2020 white level member


Yep. They were valuable because people enjoyed watching sports

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:33 PM
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People aren't going to want to watch political scoldings instead of sports entertainment. They are killing the golden goose.
So be it.

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Re: you're going to see that football players have little value

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:34 PM
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Yeah they may get a piece of the pie but the pies gonna be a lot smaller once people realize athletes are a bunch of Marxist supporting America hating communist sympathizers. They will look back on the days of a free education as the good old days once they are turned into nothing but fungible employees who are easily replaced.


Do You Not Know How to Have a Discussion Without Resorting

[4]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:47 PM
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to personal attacks? Make your points and move on, your case only further weakens when you cannot argue without name calling.

Sports by their nature are more dangerous than sitting on the couch, so is being a policeman, military member, first responder etc. Grocery, retail and restaurant employees are all in contact with more touchpoints of COVID in a day than players (who will be routinely tested) will in an entire season. I don't see my grocery store testing people who come in to shop and the cashier who rings me out, I suspect, has a higher chance of catching COVID than a football player. That cashier might interface and touch the common objects of well over a thousand strangers in a month. I do concede the close physical contact of football presents transmission opportunities.

Why don't other sports continue, bottom line, they are not part of the current economic ecosystem of sports where revenue generating sports are. They are part of the fabric that supports our current higher education system. Like it or not it's the reality. Like it or not players have chosen to enter this "higher risk" arena and are compensated for it. Take away the compensation, per my earlier argument and it changes the story. I don't see doctors who knowingly enter a profession with higher risks, protesting and threatening to quit when those risks get higher. I see them working on mitigation strategies. Either way, pouting and demanding is not a collaborative approach to solving a complex problem. For that matter, neither is name-calling and insulting other members of your community, excepting Coots where one can name call all day.

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Thought you handled that post with class Morbid. +1***


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 12:38 PM
    Reply



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Can you name the schools forcing players to play...

[1]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 10:06 PM
    Reply

this Fall?


Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?

[1]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 10:26 PM
    Reply

Careful what you ask for, you may get it. If the do get it, then the IRS should collect taxes on the total value of the money paid, schollies, imputed value of insurance, books, tutoring, special dietary provisions, and etc.


No, Clemson University doesn’t NEED football.

[2]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 10:51 PM
    Reply

Clemson would be just fine without a football team. Sure, we would miss football because we all enjoy it, but the university doesn’t need football one bit.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?

[2]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 12:07 AM
    Reply

To put it simply, you have ZERO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Football is a collegiate sport where young men commit to play football in return for a free education. If they don't want an education or to play, let them work for three years and then see if the NFL has any interest in them. Let the ones that value the college experience and an education come and play. There will be plenty of them that can play at a high level and make the sport entertaining. As far as I am concerned they have zero leverage.


Part of What You Say Has Merit


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 4:06 AM
    Reply

The fact that the public is willing to pay ridiculous amounts for sponsors products (Nike?) and fundraising organization / season tickets creates a supply and demand scenario that allows for opinion over who has what coming. When the fan base gets their priorities straight, this will all take care of itself. Sadly, that is not likely in my lifetime.


Given the choice to acquiesce to these demands or drop

[2]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 4:39 AM
    Reply

sports altogether, the logical and economic choice would be to drop sports altogether. Most academic departments already lose money.

You VASTLY (I used caps to emphasize my point) overestimate the value of the athletes.

If there were a minor football league playing alongside college football, and the level of play was slightly or even significantly higher...they'd make no money and nobody would care because the value in college football comes from the attachment people feel to the universities, a hundred years of branding and tradition. See the AAF or XFL if you want a glimpse of what minor league football looks like. Tiny, half empty stadiums, games nobody cares about, champions that don't matter (oh wait they didn't even crown champions because they couldn't make it through a single season). Meanwhile the "lower" level of play in college wouldn't hurt the sport at all. You're not going to quit following Clemson in favor of watching the Carolina Crawdads minor league football team and neither is anyone else.

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Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 8:56 AM
    Reply

Angry much?

2020 white level member

Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 9:01 AM
    Reply

Above post intended for Clemson32.

2020 white level member

What about the 100s of thousands of dollars

[1]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 9:30 AM
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They already get?

Tne nfl players have been told you can sit out if you want but you won't get paid.

If a scholarship athlete doesn't fulfill the requirements of the scholarship, shouldn't they lose it?

2020 white level member

Re: What about the 100s of thousands of dollars


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 9:52 AM
    Reply

Actually the NFL is paying players who opt out $150,000 and $350,000 if they have a health condition that makes them high risk for COVID.

2020 white level member

Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?

[2]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 10:21 AM
    Reply

I think you vastly over estimate how LEVERAGED these players are. There are an extremely small percentage of players that add true value to a program on their own (Trevor type players). The rest are completely replaceable, which I think is a reality these players are going to learn.

There are over a 1 million high school football players only 73,000 go on to play in the NCAA.

So you're talking over 900k never get to opportunity to even play in college, how many of them would take the opportunity the DI guys currently have? or the what about the thousands of players already in FCS, DII, DIII? How many of them would upgrade from playing at glorified high school to power 5 teams with stadiums that hold 80k? Where every game is on TV?

Unfortunately the players just aren't as LEVERAGED as you or them think. It's a tough lesson to learn. I deal with all the time with the business I own. Everyone thinks they are the most important piece to the puzzle and without them it would all come crumbling down. It's simply not true. I have replaced someone at every level of my company, some have been harder to replace than others, but we've always kept humming along.

It's the "Golden Rule". Whoever has the gold, makes the rules. And in this case it's the fans. They drive the entire process, with out the fans you have no TV deals, donations, season tickets, merchandise sales, etc, therefor you have no revenue to split.

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Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 1:26 PM
    Reply

tigerssp said:


Unfortunately the players just aren't as LEVERAGED as you or them think. It's a tough lesson to learn. I deal with all the time with the business I own. Everyone thinks they are the most important piece to the puzzle and without them it would all come crumbling down. It's simply not true. I have replaced someone at every level of my company, some have been harder to replace than others, but we've always kept humming along.



This. It always amazes me so many think they are the hardest working person, they have the best ideas, other people don’t know what they are talking about or that the company revolves around them. It doesn’t. Everyone is expendable. Being more difficult to replace may give you extra leeway or some small preferential treatment but isn’t going to save you at the end of the day.


Re: So you think that the teams are going to cut the players?


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 11:26 AM
    Reply

Sorry but Clemson was a college/university before big sports $s and would remain so even if every sport was dropped.

It may sound simple (and it is) each athlete and the university made an agreement when the papers were signed. A free education (provided by the school) for playing sports (provided by the athlete). The school is taking the bigger risk because there is no guarantee the athlete will ever meet potential thus not contributing to program success.

Someone tell me what is fair compensation for a college athlete? Is a scholarship and all the benefits that go along with that not enough? Once a value is placed and implemented there will no longer be amateur college athletics. No need for universities to give scholarships or even have sports teams.

Save your money Ladies and Gentlemen because maybe someday you can own a francise that provides sports performed by 18 - 22 year olds and deal with the payroll and tax withholdings for each athlete.

If it comes to that, a university shouldn't have to manage athlete payrolls and should just focus on providing education. Move all post high school sports to the business community to operate and manage. For example, a 5 star gets a $200K per year contract, a 4 star gets a $150K per year contract and etc. Make the contracts for a 1 year term and each player is resigned and paid based on performance with no guarantee to be resigned. After 3 years they are either drafted by the NFL or go to college (on their on dime) or go to work.

The players think they are getting screwed now? Just think of the billions of $s the players would get screwed out of when the business world takes the profit to satisfy shareholder demands. The athletes would get all that pay and no education as a backup. Sounds like a smart way for the athletes to go to me! For those other than the 3.8% that get drafted by the NFL, their 15 minutes of fame is over and without an education.

2020 white level member

I lived in Johnstone. Who can protest today's college

[4]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:19 PM
    Reply

conditions?

2020 white level member

Re: I lived in Johnstone. Who can protest today's college


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 7:42 AM
    Reply

Lakedude, I think you just said it all.


Re: I lived in Johnstone. Who can protest today's college


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 8:40 AM
    Reply

Bro, me too for 3 years! Metal walls and the permanent smell of stale beer. LOL!


I Still Have Nightmares About The Johnstone Cockroaches


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 8:47 AM
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I'm certain they were part of a failed radiation study.

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Where do you think they are now?***


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 8:53 AM
    Reply



2020 white level member

Likely Heads of the DNC and RNC***

[1]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 11:32 AM
    Reply



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Johnstone cockroaches.

[1]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 9:05 AM
    Reply

I threw one out a 3rd story window and heard it hit the ground.

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Re: I lived in Johnstone. Who can protest today's college


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 9:00 AM
    Reply

Tin cans rule!


Re: Scholarship Players Protesting Conditions

[1]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:28 PM
    Reply


They freely and willingly accepted are truly showing bad faith and an inability to keep a promise. If you are sooo committed to this cause resign your scholarship and I support you 100%. Anyone now working for an employer knows how quickly you would be let go for protesting openly against said employer. If you want to form a union and collectively bargain then do so and like they say “throw the dice”. Man up and commit one way or the other.




I got a raise the last time I openly protested against my employer. Maybe you can't protest against your employer because you're completely replaceable?

2020 student level member

Re: Scholarship Players Protesting Conditions

[2]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:31 PM
    Reply

Sure pal, you are irreplaceable! I’d protest again to your employer if I were you.


I Somehow Think You, If You Are a Professional, You

[3]
Posted: Aug 3, 2020 9:49 PM
    Reply

Articulated a case for your raise and didn't go raise a public ruckus. Maybe I am wrong.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Morbid, there's one problem with your argument ---


Posted: Aug 3, 2020 11:00 PM
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The NCAA and universities are very careful to be very clear that there is NOT an employer-employee relationship with scholarship athletes.


Re: Morbid, there's one problem with your argument ---


Posted: Aug 4, 2020 12:08 AM
    Reply

Correct and nor should there be!


I Get That But There Does Not Have to Be a Formalized

[1]
Posted: Aug 4, 2020 8:50 AM
    Reply

Hiring relationship to have "offer and acceptance" I truly have the biggest problem with the spirit of the demand the group is making. It feels so very close to the climate much of the protests have that I think it truly cheapens the spirit and image of the college athlete. IMHO

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