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Topic: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy
Replies: 57   Last Post: May 1, 2017 10:08 PM by: wildblulou®
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New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[4]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:01 AM
 

 
Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

While South Carolina’s men took the nation by storm with a win over Duke in the NCAA Tournament and the Gamecocks women continued to showcase one of the nation’s top programs, Clemson’s teams were nowhere to be found, except for some back and forth drama about who would be the men’s head coach next season. Photo by Melin Vastola / USATODAY Full Story »



With Drad in charge...

[3]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:31 AM
 

With DRad in charge...


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[4]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:37 AM
 

I think you got it about right. We give ourselves way to much credit for having a successful football program. We just happen to be where Dabo Swinney is. Pretty lucky if you ask me.
But we wring our hands at being "not a basketball school". Truth is in the middle I suspect. If we want to be really good at both on a sustained basis, we have a whole lot to learn. We are not any better at having a culture of creating greatness than we were before Dabo got here.

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Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[3]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:41 AM
 

Great read, Daniel! Couldn't agree more. We have the resources to win, now just need to right people in charge...


with Brad Brownell as HC.*****

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:42 AM
 



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Message removed by Author

[3]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:45 AM
 

Message removed by Author

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Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:46 AM
 

I guess the only hope is if he does eventually make a change, someone falls in his lap like Monte, right?


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:05 AM
 

Hopefully, but I don't see him getting that lucky twice in a row!!!

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One of the reasons Clemson hired him was because he had experience

[6]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:50 AM
 

with capital projects. And if you're going to blame him for not firing Brownell, you have to give him credit for hiring Monte Lee.

Clemson sports overall are doing quite well, even though basketball isn't where we would like it to be.

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I'm a grown man simply stating wise and true things.


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[2]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:57 AM
 

Yep, like the blind hog finding the acorn.

Drad left Atlanta because he did a poor job there. They did not want him anymore. He is good at spending $$$$ on capital projects, like a teenager on a shopping spree.

He is riding on CDS's coattails right now. Can he stand on his own? Time will tell.


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 11:56 AM
 

I agree with all, but I think that time has already told. Two coaches in a row handled the very same way is more than I want to hear, and its more than Clemson athletics should have to survive through. The next thing he will want to build, is women dorms with tampon machines in every room!!!

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Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[2]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:55 AM
 

What the author left out was the remarkable soccer and golf programs, which, I know, are not revenue positive. However, They re contenders in the ACC and beyond!


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[3]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:02 AM
 

The biggest problem is Dan Radakovich. He didn't hire Dabo, and FB of late has been our strongest sport. Yes Dan hired Monte Lee, but that was a no brainer. He is a SC guy right down the road that had done a good job coaching at his alma mater COC a mid major school, and Monte was surly ready to take the next step up, and what better place to do that with Clemson badly needing a baseball coaching. Monte Lee fell into Dan Radakovich lap if the truth was told. Dan Radakovich is the problem and not the solution. That has been more than proven by his tardiness in letting Jack go when it was clear a change was needed, now again with Brownell. He is a weak AD when doing whats best for Clemson sports, and he is really good at spending tons of money not his own. He loves having his name on building projects way more than on winning, and he more than proved that at GT also.

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Perhaps he takes advice from Jerry Jones. jk...***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 10:46 AM
 




Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 7:18 PM
 

You do realize if Drad let Legget go a year earlier we would not have Monte Lee. Just saying.

I do not agree with the retaining of Brownlee, however if Drad did not have the candidate he wanted available, he might have been forced to replace Brownlee with another dud


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 7:24 PM
 

Monte Lee might end up being a 'dud'. hasn't been at CLemson long.


100% exactly this!

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:22 AM
 

"But those are lazy excuses, and if you accept them as truth, youre never going to have the kind of program Clemson deserves."


based on some actual game strategies . .

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 11:55 AM
 

and play by some of the player, at very important times in the game . . I can say I do not feel Brad is the right man now. I was pretty happy with him early on and never felt as I have this year. I have seem blunders that fall on coaching. I coached HS for 11 years and there were things done that seem to point out a lack of concentration or emphasis. That is a big problem for me.


This all sounds like fan talk and not the reality

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 12:04 PM
 

of running a business/athletic program. The question isn't can Clemson be good at basketball. The question is "Is Clemson, and its fan base, willing to either generate new revenue to spend on basketball or is it willing to spend money they would have spent on football in the basketball program?"

It costs real money to run a basketball program.
It costs real money to run a football program.
Most of the other programs (like baseball) are cheap in comparison.

All this talk about improving the basketball program by just saying things like "this is Clemson we're better than that" or "accepting mediocrity" or "its just 3.5 million" is ignoring the reality of finite resources. We've learned what the reality of being cheap did to the football program. They are not going to allow that to happen again. The first time Dabo says "the money we needed for XYZ was spent on basketball" is the last day that Athletics Director is employed at Clemson. Football will always dominate the budget.


For comparison, Clemson spent about $0.35 on basketball recruiting for every dollar spent on football recruiting. That ratio is about 70th in the country for this time frame. http://db.desmoinesregister.com/college-basketball-recruiting/page=1&ordercol=col9&orderdir=desc


According to this http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2012/10/11/college-basketball-spending-doesnt.html?appSession=963222402404121&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=&cpipage=1&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=
Clemson spent about 4.4 million on the basketball program on about 7.7 million in revenue. Duke spent 13 million on about 28 million in revenue. What we spent on the basketball program was good for about 12th in the ACC.

The similar database for the same time frame has us spending 17 million on football which is 4th in the ACC.

Yes, this data is 4 to 5 years old, but ironically its mostly for the TDP administration. It shows just how far behind we were.

So, all the numbers show, we are getting exactly what we should when we look at the finances.

We've made the decision to live in a nice house (football) with nice furniture (olympic sports such as baseball, golf and soccer) but we're driving a Ford Festiva (basketball) to the grocery store. Personally, I'm 100% ok with that. Any analysis that rightly shouts at our lack of productivity on the basketball floor needs to be balanced with the resources that we put in it.


What's wrong with a


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 12:16 PM
 

Ford Festiva??? :)

Go Tigers!!!

2018 white level member

FACTS are not welcomed on TigerNet!!

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 3:24 PM
 

Your "Pulse" is going to take a major hit, and I'm sure that means you will not sleep or eat for days.....

Your Fan Perspective is indeed refreshing, unique and spot on but don't expect the minions here to agree with you, even though I do.

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Agree with your basketball is a business position


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:54 PM
 

Yet I still believe it all starts with the right coach. Brad Stevens at Butler. Greg Marshall at Wichita State. Even pay-for-play Tark the Shark at UNLV made their programs by recruiting and promoting their style of play. It takes the right coach.

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Re: Agree with your basketball is a business position


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:59 PM
 

they are in different areas, more populated areas. WHy can't you get this?

Other than you are a Clemson fan, why do you think CLemson should be a lock for top recruits in bball?


Re: Agree with your basketball is a business position


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 7:06 PM
 

Wich State plays in a weak conference. I don' think Marshall would be a lock for the tournament every year out of the ACC.


No offense, Mr. Shirley, but I don't want to hear that

[2]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 12:14 PM
 

Clemson's victory over usuck in Dec. was directly attributable to the absence of chickenleader Sindarius "puffy" Thornwell....Their university won't comment on why the senior SEC POY missed 6 games in the middle of the season, but a quick perusal of athletic dept. policy coupled with the fact that a previous traffic arrest which included charges of marijuana possession 8 months earlier (that went COMPLETELY unreported by local media OR the university) leads one to the conclusion that "puffy" flunked a drug test....And finally had to pay a price for his "senior leadership"

Sorry, but just as injuries and depth are factors in a teams performance, at usuck, so are suspensions--even if they go unexplained by the chickenpowers-that-be.


Message was edited by: tigrjm76®


Message was edited by: tigrjm76®


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Re: No offense, Mr. Shirley, but I don't want to hear that


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:44 PM
 

Suspensions are a part of every team, and Clemson has had feel the hurt from that also. Just as in the 2015 football NCG, Cain was most likely the missing piece that could have made us 6 points better to have won that NCG also. Lets not use suspensions as reasons for losses bc every team has them. Plus there is no guarantee that a team would have won with that player in the game!!!Dabo has shown his teams that there won't be any slack given bc they are a great player, screw up and get caught, they will pay the price!!!

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Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 1:56 PM
 

Asserting that Clemson fans 'deserve better' doesn't force good players to come to Clemson.

This writer doesn't explain why Clemson should be better in basketball than other programs. Clemson has obvious advantages in football to attract recruits.


Im extremely disappointed with how Radakovich handled this situation.***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 2:17 PM
 




It's not only about the people...

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 3:05 PM
 

It's about reputation of the program....even reaching back the Cliff Ellis days when we were winning a few games with Grant, Campbell, and Davis. No one respected Clemson Basketball....fast forward 25 years..that's a quarter of a century....no one respects Clemson Baskeball...no respect = no recruits.

Recruiting for Clemson means bringing in a quality of the student-athlete. Not the Duke or Stanford type, and definitely not the UK or Louisville type, both ends of the spectrum. A good BB player with marginal grades will have to opt to go to a school willing to accept them. BB players with good grades will opt to go to a UNC type school or their in-state school. If you're BB player in SC, NC, or GA with decent grades, your options are great NCST, UNC, Wake, GT, UGA, SC, or CU or with a little travel go somewhere in VA or TN or FL.

And lastly and most importantly, it's about financial resources. We pride ourselves on IPTAY and the money invested in FB. However, in the scheme of financial resources, Clemson is at a disadvantage. What's the difference between UGA, SC, UNC, Notre Dame, Louisville, Michigan, OSU, etc.? Clemson does not have one of the big three post graduate professional degrees law, medical, and to a lesser is extent veterinary MD.


Re: It's not only about the people...


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 3:14 PM
 

what does the professional academic progrmas like medicine have to do with basketball and recruiting?


Re: It's not only about the people...


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 3:18 PM
 

meant to point out that the Barnes teams that get mentioned a lot were full of players that were good but not highly recruited due to size. Mcintyre was the shortest player in the ACC since Mugsy Bogues. they all basically wanted to play elsewhere but had to settle for Clemson.


MONEY from donors who can afford alot more than us


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 3:20 PM
 

engineers.


Re: MONEY from donors who can afford alot more than us


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 3:21 PM
 

money hasn't ever bought SC much success in basketball or football.


There are many Clemson alums who are doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc.


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:19 PM
 

Just because Clemson does not have those programs does not mean that we don't have alums in those professions.


I Believe In DRad And I Believe In BB***

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 4:00 PM
 




Re: I Believe In DRad And I Believe In BB***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:48 PM
 

After 7 years of firmly backing Brownell, I can no longer agree that Brad could ever be any good for our basketball, in fact, I now believe that our program will never be better under Brownell!!!

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Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 5:57 PM
 

BB in the Cow Palace was fun, saw the 3 Mchaffey bros, great times

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Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:05 PM
 

BB in the Cow Palace was fun, saw the 3 Mchaffey bros, great times

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Cliff Ellis > Brad Brownell


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:48 PM
 

soc

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Re: Cliff Ellis > Brad Brownell


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 6:53 PM
 

unless Clemson can find a coach that is guaranteed to bring in top recruits, i don't see the point in throwing money away to change coaches.

i can't think of any coach out there that would guarantee recruits except ones that aren't going to leave their programs, like COach K.


Yes, we should only operate with guarantees


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 7:14 PM
 

in every sport at all times. Maybe Ms. Chloe can help us pick the right people that are guaranteed to succeed


Re: Yes, we should only operate with guarantees

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 7:17 PM
 

i don't agree with you that Brownell has failed. CLemson has been a middle of the pack program in the best conference. The teams are generally in games with programs with better players.

just because you and others stomp your feet and say 'we deserve better' doesn't mean all of a sudden better players are going to come to Clemson becaue Clemson hired a new coach.


Well, we can be sure they aren't coming now


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 7:57 PM
 

You won't find one place I said we deserve better. In fact, most I see are upset we don't invest more in basketball and are getting what we pay for.

But the fact is Brownell is falling short of even the low bar of Clemson basketball history. It didn't happen this year, and I hope he can orchestrate a miraculous turn around next year. But it's coming barring that turnaround


Re: Well, we can be sure they aren't coming now


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 8:24 PM
 

ok it is not true that 'we don't invest' in basketball. that's jsut a talking point. We pay a ton of money for coaches, facilitilies, scholarships, etc.


We've finally invested in facilities


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:24 PM
 

after years of having near bottom rung in the league. Our head coach is among the lowest paid in the league, and has been since we hired him. NC State just hired a guy from his old school who will make half a million more than Brad


Re: We've finally invested in facilities


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:37 PM
 

salary has nothing to do with how good the coach is. it is not like Brownell isn't well paid.

there was nothing wrong with the arena and 'investing' in it doesn't mean good players come to Clemson.


Brownell isn't paid that much compared to other P6 schools.***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:40 PM
 




Re: Brownell isn't paid that much compared to other P6 schools.***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:41 PM
 

you can't say CU hasn't invested in the program when he is being paid millions of dollars to coach a game.

CU invested a lot more than you have.


LOL well of course Clemson spent more on basketball than I did.


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:59 PM
 

That's their job. And they need to spend more.


Re: LOL well of course Clemson spent more on basketball than I did.


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 10:03 PM
 

easy to say other people should spend more. you have no skin in the game. moreover, you can't articulate how simply spending more money equates to more wins or helps recruiting.


Re: Brownell isn't paid that much compared to other P6 schools.***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:43 PM
 

i would imagine many of the schools that pay bball coaches more than CLemson pay football coache less. there is a tradeoff. no university has unlimited funds.


Re: Brownell isn't paid that much compared to other P6 schools.***


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:46 PM
 

i support paying less for basketball coaches because Clemson has no natural advantages in basketball recruiting.


Clemson has no natural advantages for football recruiting either.


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 9:57 PM
 

Yet we now recruit against programs with a history and budget far superior to ours. Why? Because we committed support and resources to our football program. We hired great coaches, and we give those coaches whatever they need to be successful (facilities, support staff, etc.).

We have never done that for basketball.


Re: Clemson has no natural advantages for football recruiting either.


Posted: Mar 21, 2017 10:02 PM
 

ok, it is dishonest to say that Clemson has not spent money on basketball. moreover, simnply spending money doess not force good players to go to Clemson which seems to be your magic trick thinking.


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy

[1]
Posted: Mar 21, 2017 10:46 PM
 

I've basically stayed out of this basketball HC discussion but I'm going to comment now and then forget about basketball until next season which I suggest we all do. What's done is done now.

Unless you've been a Clemson bb fan since the mid 60's, Mr. Shirley, don't try to tell me what being a bb fan here is like. Yes, long-term success may be possible at Clemson but unfortunately no one who was ever successful here was dedicated to the long-term. I've heard Cliff Ellis, who won the only regular season ACC championship here and was 2 seconds away from taking us to our 2nd Elite 8 appearance, speak about the difficulties of this position. I think he's won a few more games than the rest of us and probably knows a little something about the subject. Whether there is a person willing to make the necessary long-term commitment I guess we'll just have to wait and see for at least another year.

Regarding Brownell, I was a strong supporter until this past off-season when he replaced an assistant coach. His weakness is recruiting and his hire did nothing to fix that weakness. Quite frankly, I was about 60-40 in favor of a change but its done now and people need to move on. People talking about boycotting aren't helping their school. Do you think a prospective coach will be encouraged by an empty gym? I've sat through my fair share of losing fb and bb seasons but I showed up to support the team with Clemson on their jersey and will next season.

On the remarks about the women's program, time to move on here also. Firing Jim Davis may have been the stupidest thing done to women's basketball but lumping Audra Smith's tenure with both of the other losing coaches is premature and a disservice. Women's basketball was at its absolute nadir when she took over the disaster from Umoh-Coleman. This past season was an 11 game improvement over the previous year and the best record for the girl's team in a dozen years. Everyone returns and she has two more inside players coming in the freshman class. She is an extremely positive an enthusiastic coach and those attributes have served a Coach named Dabo well too. I expect next year to be a success so let's back-off till we see how it goes. That being said, unfortunately most all of her recruits will have to come from out of state because I don't expect much success in recruiting in-state while Dawn Staley is at USC.

Now I hope BB and the team go out and prove DRad a genius next year.


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: Mar 23, 2017 1:50 PM
 

While we are 'Clemson fans' we are no longer Basketball fans. Until the AD gets a coach who is capable to compete in the ACC(and they are out there) then it is only disheartening to watch. Brownell is a good coach for Div II or lower, but he is not of Div I ACC caliber. Just look at the last 3 seasons. It is glaring to all that watch. You get what you pay for......


Re: New Story: Daniel Shirley: Being a Clemson basketball fan is never easy


Posted: May 1, 2017 10:00 PM
 

Daniel, you deleted me on facebook tonight, I will see you in person soon my good buddy!


whiskey tango fox...?***

[1]
Posted: May 1, 2017 10:08 PM
 



2018 white level member

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