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Topic: Mitchell contemplated leaving early for draft
Replies: 47   Last Post: Mar 18, 2019 4:45 PM by: Knuck®
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Mitchell contemplated leaving early for draft

[1]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:02 AM
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Last year. Dude ain't sniffing nba. Maybe you'll get a shot over seas. Reed and Thomas have a good shot at d league and working towards an NBA contract. Skara i guess going back to play overseas. What a disappointing season, after last year and guys coming back.


Ok***

[4]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:03 AM
    Reply



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Ok***


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:20 AM
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Gabe devoe twice a good as Mitchell and didn't get drafted now playing in polish league.


Gabe Devoe had 1 good year where he shot the lights


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:32 AM
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out halfway through the season. Devoe was horribly inconsistent his first three and half years. Mitchell needs to get all he can out of basketball at this level and get his degree. He never has really physically matured or changed. Hes the same size/build as when he got here and that tells me he's happy with where he his physically. It was my knock on Ray Ray and Deon Cain as well. Those guys never physically matured. They're were as skinny as they were when they came in...which told me they weren't all into working and getting better they were ready to go when it was first available. Great players but never really peaked. So if Mitchell is thinking about it he's probably already got a foot out the door. He would greatly benefit next year b/c he will be the leader and will get all the looks. Unless he's afraid of that kinda thing...which some guys are.


I don't really follow what you're saying

[2]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 12:39 PM
    Reply

What would Mitchell "greatly benefit from next year?" This is his 5th year playing college basketball.

Also, on your body type comment. He came here after his freshman season, and we didn't see him play until his 3rd college year. He probably filled out some in those first 2 years (at Vandy, and redshirting). He was listed as 6-3 186 at Vandy and he's listed at 6-4 200 now. Basketball players (especially guards), don't really need to be that big. Quickness and stamina is more important than size imo for a guard.

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oh ok gotcha i thought he had a year left

[1]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 5:27 PM
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and with body type being quick and nimble might be just enough if you're ceiling is college i guess but if you had aspirations of competing at the next level you better be strong or if not you better just be insanely gifted. When i looked at a guy like Blossomgame or KJ McDaniel from when they arrive to when they left you could see the work they put in not only by their game but their physical attributes. They got cut up and shredded as well and in my opinion that shows me that they had dedication to improving. Who fits that mold on this team? I guess you could say Marquisse Reed does. He seems to have gotten cut up more so than his starting frame.

I know my opinion is not an exact science but i do know with some guys you can tell they've worked and improved their physical frame and are usually some of our best players. And then there are guys who stay soft and unchanged seem to not ever get better. I think there's something to it, thats all i'm saying. Great example was some years back with Ed Scott. Was a 6-3 average size basketball player as a freshman that was an average to low average basketball player. By his Senior year, he was a tank and scored ### near 30 points a game and was an all-acc talent. That maturation tells me he worked his tail off to get to that point and adding strength helps you in so many ways on the court.

How many soft looking pro's are out there? Not many. Harden may be the only one of note but he has insane skills as a ball handler and shooter. Exception to the rule no doubt. But most those other guys make sure they're in shape and strong not just fast and nimble. To be a pro you have to work on your strength or just forget it.


Re: oh ok gotcha i thought he had a year left


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 11:04 AM
    Reply

He's definitely not as cut as some of those other guys, but everyone has a different body type and it may not show on him like some people.

Maybe you're right and he hasn't put in the work, or maybe he's focused more on strength than looking lean and cut. I don't know. I do agree with you though that I don't think he's as "insanely gifted" as many of the players in the current NBA. I'm also not sure what his natural position would be in the NBA. Probably not quite a pure enough shooter to be a SG, or ball-handler to be a PG, but I hope he proves us wrong.

Thanks for bringing up Ed Scott though! One of my favorite Tiger B-ball players ever (granted I'm only 30, so I missed out on most of our "glory days")

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Are you high? Ed Scott was barely 6 foot, if that***


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 12:06 PM
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Re: oh ok gotcha i thought he had a year left


Posted: Mar 18, 2019 8:04 AM
    Reply

Mitchel is 24 years old. He isn't getting much more broad than he is now. The only thing he could do is put on thick muscle, by doing different types of excercises/change his diet, which would limit his motion. Not sure what you want from a PG, in Basketball.

2019 white level member

He should have. Had a good season last year and a


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:08 AM
    Reply

good tourney. I think for his sake his draft stock would have been better last year. Maybe 2nd round pick.


Re: He should have. Had a good season last year and a

[1]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:16 AM
    Reply

No way Mitchell would have gotten drafted last year. Kj and Blosomgame both went 2nd and they were a lot better.


Were KJ and JB point guards?***

[2]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:20 AM
    Reply



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Were KJ and JB point guards?***


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:24 AM
    Reply

No, but they had better ball control and didn't crank up 3's at an abysmal rate.


Are you sure?

[3]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:40 AM
    Reply

Because in college JB and KJ both hit ~31% of their 3's while Mitchell has hit 35%. Want to guess who had the better assist to turnover ratio from those 3?

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I know for a fact that Mitchell...

[4]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:46 AM
    Reply

probably had the better assist to turnover ratio, maybe?

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Yes, it's a fact.

[2]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 11:16 AM
    Reply

KJ and JB averaged more turnovers than assists while Mitchell averaged more assists than turnovers.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


you should have quit when we only THOUGHT you were an idiot***

[1]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 11:08 AM
    Reply




Re: Mitchell contemplated leaving early for draft


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:54 AM
    Reply

Another reason recruits think twice about Clemson.

Raw talent hasn’t been coached to elevate the player to the next level.


Can you provide an example?

[2]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 11:24 AM
    Reply

KJ was a 3-star recruit with limited offers. He was drafted after 3 years. Blossomgame was 3-stars with more offers than KJ, but still raw talent and got drafted. I'm trying to think of a player that came into Brad's system that wasn't coached up.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Grantham and DeVoe were largely underdeveloped at Clemson


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 12:28 PM
    Reply

Grantham was showing signs of finally breaking out and DeVoe did break out but development usually comes in stages like it did for Blossomgame, McDaniels and Nnoko...
Legend Robeertin, Bernard Sullivan, Scott Spencer, Sidy Djitte, Josh Smith, Austin Ajukwa, Patrick Rooks, Anthony Oliver, Adonis Filer, Devin Coleman, TJ Sapp, Cory Stanton, and I say that working with Milton Jennings and Devin Booker for 4 years makes Brownell responsible for their development or lack thereof despite being OP recruits...
Considering how guys transferred out and did not get development here, I'm going to add Noel Johnson even though he was an OP recruit that left after 1 year with Brownell. Johnson was very talented and could have used a teacher like Brownell to make him better. A new coach has to first sell the players that are already here because there was a reason why guys like Jennings, Booker and Johnson were recruited to Clemson in the first place...

2019 white level member

Noel Johnson and Bernard Sullivan? That's the hill you want

[2]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 12:42 PM
    Reply

to die on?


there are more bodies on the hill of underdevelopment


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 12:53 PM
    Reply

than there are survivors on the hill of development... I give Brownell credit for BGame, KJ and Nnoko, who else can you point to as a developed player under Brownell? and please don't point to someone having survived 4 years like Rod Hall or Jordan Roper as developed players, I think we got all we could out of Hall but there were flashes in Roper that begged for the switch to come on and become the next Andre Young...

2019 white level member

Good Lord, you've got Cory Stanton and Legend Robertin on


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 1:13 PM
    Reply

that list and neither was ACC caliber...Truthfully, we have won the transfer comparison, the ones Brad brought in are LIGHTYEARS ahead of anybody who left...There are no ETs, Reeds, Mitchells or Skaras on your list...The only player that left that and actually produced was TJ Sapp and he didn't do it in a Power Conference


Isn't Brad responsible for recruiting and signing all of


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 4:35 PM
    Reply

these players that you say were not ACC caliber to begin with??? Thank you for making my point...

by the way, the transfers did not have an immediate impact on the program in their 1st year on the floor (which was their 2nd year in the program), it was in their 2nd year on the floor (last year) that their impact produced the results that everyone desires. also, there are no transfers to rely on next year, so what's going to be the excuse for yet again finishing in the bottom half and probably bottom 3rd of the conference next year?

2019 white level member

He brought Stanton with him from WS and Legend was worth


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 8:19 PM
    Reply

a shot...And my point seems to have gone right over YOUR head...Name someone we lost to transfer who was as productive as Shelly, Reed, Eli or Skara


my point was not about winning with transfers


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 12:01 AM
    Reply

it seems to me that you completely ignored the fact that your rebut that Brownell has largely recruited weakly and underwhelmed in development was really no rebut at all... now you want to discuss swapping transfers in and out so you can make a valid point, well ok, the transfers in are better than the transfers out... but that's of very little consequence considering that two out of three years having the "winning" transfers only resulted in one NCAA tourney invite. .333 is a great batting average in baseball, but is a weak field goal percentage for a basketball team and won't win very many games or get the coveted post season tourney invite which ultimately means that you are losing more than winning.

IF Brownell catches lightning in a bottle again with 5 transfers that completely supplant a line up, it won't be soon enough because the struggle next year is going to be worse than this year... so, I ask again, what is going to be the excuse next year when the team doesn't even reach the bar set by this years team?

2019 white level member

what was the excuse this year?***


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 12:15 AM
    Reply




I'm waiting for the Brownell apologists to air them out...


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 10:47 PM
    Reply

for me, there are no excuses for this year, do you have one? or more?

2019 white level member

Let's not forget that Brownell had to bring Stanton with him

[2]
Posted: Mar 15, 2019 11:12 AM
    Reply

because Purnell only had ONE player signed for the 2010 recruiting class, Marcus Thornton. Brad tried to convince him to keep his commitment to Clemson, but he chose Georgia instead (and wasn't a superstar there by any means).

Purnell left the cupboard very bare, which is why I believe he left when he did. Year 2 of a coach's tenure being a significant drop off in wins is the tell-tale sign that the previous coach had a lot of key recruiting misses toward the end of his tenure. This is why year 2 for both Brownell and Shyatt were bad, because Purnell and Barnes maxed out on a couple of recruiting hits and weren't able to sustain any recruiting momentum.

2019 white level member

Brownell hasn't shown himself to be a better recruiter


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 10:46 PM
    Reply

as most of his recruiting classes have borne out... Brownell has actually left his own cupboard bare for next year...

2019 white level member

Grantham is in the NBA now and was having a huge year

[1]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 12:55 PM
    Reply

before he got hurt. A lot of those guys you mentioned are still playing professional basketball.

There are only ~450 NBA players on rosters and ~4,500 Division 1 college basketball players. When you add in players coming to the NBA from overseas, players essentially have to be an NBA prospect coming out of high school to make it, obviously there are plenty of exceptions.

I would venture to guess that all of those guys you mentioned were developed and got better under CBB. It just may not show in games. Not everyone can be coached up to play in the NBA.

My argument is that, given the complaints about Brad's recruiting, he must be getting the most out his players and developing them well to be as competitive as we've been in the ACC.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Under Brownell, Clemson has only finished 6th or higher


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 6:04 PM
    Reply

in the conference 3 out of 9 seasons with only 2 out of 9 seasons finishing higher than 6th (guess what years those were)... I don't consider it to be competitive to finish out of consideration of the NCAA tournament because you finish lower than more than half of the conference 6 out of 9 times. His conference record is ok at 76-82 but we are not seeing player development that benefits Clemson if the measure is if "they are still playing professional basketball somewhere"... MANY college players are "still playing professional basketball somewhere" if they are willing to go play overseas, but my measure isn't about what they do when they leave Clemson, or if they are in the NBA or not, but while they are at Clemson.

We will have to agree to disagree because I am not impressed with recruiting or development, particularly that the development is not showing up in games while they are at Clemson...

2019 white level member

How many Sweet 16s has Clemson been to? How long has it been


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 12:27 AM
    Reply

since we had two players on NBA rosters who signed/played under the same coach?


Here are the NBA players from Clemson over the past


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 11:15 AM
    Reply

20 years:

Barnes: 1 NBA player (Greg Buckner)
Shyatt: 1 NBA player (Will Solomon)
Purnell: 1 NBA player (Trevor Booker)
Brownell: 3 NBA players so far (K.J. McDaniels, Jaron Blossomgame, Donte Grantham)

2019 white level member

Another of Rick's guys, Harold Jamison, played 37 games over


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 12:02 PM
    Reply

the course of 2 seasons


Buckner & Booker's teams earned NCAA invites


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 10:57 PM
    Reply

only Grantham's team (once) earned an invite of Brownell's players, so what does KJ and BGame signing NBA contracts have to do with their teams not earning NCAA tourney invites while at Clemson?

2019 white level member

What does NBA play have to do with how many


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 10:50 PM
    Reply

tournament invites they earned while at Clemson?

2019 white level member

You were whining about development, so he listed Brad's


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 11:04 PM
    Reply

pros...What are you not following?


I STATED a few points of significance but you two


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 11:13 PM
    Reply

choose to diverge from the primary point of not making the tournament. Being drafted may or may not be evidence of Brownell being responsible for development, especially if that development doesn't work to the advantage of Clemson winning more games and getting tourney invites but if you are satisfied with guys playing professionally ahead of winning enough to get tournament invites, have at it...

Count my preference for winning enough to get the invites ahead of playing professionally...

2019 white level member

I'm sorry, were you NOT whining about player development too***


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 11:29 PM
    Reply




I think Mitchell's knee issues are the untold story....

[3]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 10:55 AM
    Reply

Of the season. There were certain games where he just looked slower than last year.
He had a tough season this year.
If the knee issue was a lingering thing...then he certainly gutted it out....but unfortunately his play suffered.

In any case, the road to the NBA is a narrow one. Even Blossomgame, who individually is better than any of the guys on the current team, was drafted extremely late second round by the Spurs and has mostly hung around the G league. He is currently on the Cleveland Cavs bench and has recently been playing.
Donte Grantham has sat on the end of the Oklahoma City Thunder bench.
KJ McDaniels is currently not in the league after playing for 3 seasons. It's just hard to make it unless you are elite and everything works out right.

On the current team, I'm not sure there's an NBA player. E. Thomas maybe....but he has to develop a jump shot.
Reed is a great college scorer, but would have to play PG in the NBA....and I'm not sure that's happening.


The thing about Eli is that I don't know if there is a

[1]
Posted: Mar 14, 2019 11:15 AM
    Reply

position he can play (as is) in the pros...Don't know if he's tall enough to play the 5 and he doesn't have the shooting range to play on the perimeter where most of the 4s play now


Re: Mitchell contemplated leaving early for draft


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 2:40 PM
    Reply

Wish him the best but hope he got his degree because he is going to need it.....no chance of ever playing in NBA.......don’t make me laugh.....Go Tigers!!!!


He will play professional BB somewhere***


Posted: Mar 14, 2019 3:42 PM
    Reply




Re: Mitchell contemplated leaving early for draft


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 11:17 AM
    Reply

He has a chronic knee issue. Definitely hampered his play this year. His knees couldn’t do what his body wanted. He’s a good player talent wise maybe even borderline NBA but his body failed him


You must not be aware of his significant knee issues.

[1]
Posted: Mar 15, 2019 11:56 AM
    Reply

He has really bad knees. It is amazing that he has been able to continue to play as much as he has over the past couple of seasons, because there was significant concern in 2017 about him playing starter minutes consistently.

Although he has been able to play heavy minutes, he doesn't have quite the quickness or explosiveness he previously had. I think that has impacted his game some.

2019 white level member

Didn't 3 of our 4 best leave last year ??***


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 11:49 PM
    Reply



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I wouldn't say that 3 of our best 4 left last year...


Posted: Mar 18, 2019 4:45 PM
    Reply

I would only consider Donnal to have been 7-9th best on the roster. For me, it's hard to say that Grantham is one of the best 4 because the team made the tournament run to the Sweet 16 without him. However, an argument could be made that he was top 4 on the roster last year. I would list the best 8 as Thomas, DeVoe, Reed, Mitchell, Grantham, Skara or Simms, then Donnal. Simms really stepped up when Grantham went down, not completely replacing him, but definitely providing a stop gap to Grantham's loss and providing the other players room to play their best without concern of Grantham being out.

Again, just my view of where we were last year, and the impact of the losses on this year...

2019 white level member

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