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Topic: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions
Replies: 69   Last Post: Feb 14, 2018 9:12 PM by: chapintiger®
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Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[4]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:33 AM
 

We went through this Bridge situation last year with my daughter. My daughter is finishing bridge this year and has had a good experience. We accepted the situation and moved on but it doesn’t make it right. Bridge is about more than statistics and you can follow the money to understand the developer involvement and the $32,000 annual rent for a 4 students to live in an apartment, 3 miles from campus. I sympathize with those parents that are frustrated with the Bridge scheme and yes, that is what it is. As alumni and citizens, please take a stand and make your voices heard. Personally, I will not donate another penny to Clemson until the school adjusts it’s admissions policies and shifts it’s priorities to it’s original charter, educating South Carolinians.

This is the letter we sent to President Clements last year. I plan to send 3 other kids to Clemson and I implore you to take your own stand.

President Clements,
What is the mission of Clemson University?

As South Carolina taxpayers and proud graduates of Clemson University, my wife and I can’t help but question the current mission of our great institution. Clemson was established in 1889 to educate the citizens of South Carolina. In fact, the Will of Thomas Green Clemson specifically states that “such a school or college for the youth of South Carolina as, in their judgment will be for their best interest”. Mr. Clemson’s intent was clear.

In 2016, 23,507 students applied to Clemson. Of those applications, Clemson accepted only 3,836 In-State applications while accepting 8,053 Out-Of-State applications. In fact, only 32% of South Carolina students who applied, ended up enrolling at Clemson.

Last week, our daughter was denied admission to Clemson University despite a 4.19 GPA and a 1280 SAT score. She is graduating from one of the state’s premier high schools while working 20 hours a week since she was 15 years old . We know numerous very worthy children of South Carolina that have been denied admission despite very strong qualifications.

Today’s admissions department seems more focused on retaining a top 25 College Ranking and capturing Out-Of-State Tuition than educating the children of our great State as intended. Clemson now uses programs such as “The Bridge” to manipulate statistics while appeasing it’s many faithful, silent alumni and their children.
I am proud to have graduated with Governor Nikki Haley. As you know, she now serves as United States Ambassador to the United Nations. Unfortunately, I’m not certain Mrs. Haley would be good enough for today’s Clemson.

As a taxpayer and a citizen, I find this very concerning. Many of my fellow alumni feel the same way.

Mr. Clements, we are proud of our great University but we have lost our way. My daughter didn’t miss out Clemson University. Clemson University missed out on my daughter.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:37 AM
 

So...11,000 freshmen were accepted into the 2016 class? Really? Does that math work? Out of 18,600 undergrads in total?


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:39 AM
 

Accepted vs. Enrollment. Enrollment was much lower.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:43 AM
 

Freshman enrollment in 2016 was 3500.

https://www.clemson.edu/oirweb1/FB/factbook/minis/F16FactSheet.pdf


I got my Associate’s in Science then transferred into Microbillgy

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:44 AM
 

A very competitive major at Clemson.

My pride wasn’t hurt, my Clemson experience hasn’t been diminished and I saved more money taking the same general classes as bride and current Clemson students.

Maybe more should go this route or just accept the fact that more qualified kids got in over yours.

2018 student level member

Re: I got my Associate’s in Science then transferred into Microbillgy

[3]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:46 AM
 

In-state to out of state ration is still 65-35 .... they accept more out of state knowing a smaller percentage will enroll.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[25]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:49 AM
 

I am sorry but your underlying premise is incorrect. I rarely ever post despite being a member for a long time. Clemson was founded, like many State schools around the country, on the back of the Morrill Act. This has been commonly referred to as the Land Grant College Act. Money was appropriated from the US Treasury, NOT South Carolina's budget, to start Clemson.

So as to infer that only SC residents should be able to attend Clemson, runs totally counter, to its inception. These colleges, started all around the US, were to " specialize in “agriculture and the mechanic arts.” It doesn't say to students that only live in the state of the College's location.

It is true that part of Clemson's Annual budget comes from the State taxpayers now. But that small % that SC taxes pay towards Clemson doesn't even close to matching the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition. "Out of Staters" in fact subsidize the in-state tuition. Out of State students SAT scores are far higher than in-state and I could go on an on.

Hopefully, you get the point.

Good day


Excellent post.***


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:56 AM
 



2018 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:00 AM
 

I was an out of state student and I never said Clemson should only educate South Carolinians. That’s ridiculous.


Reality's own words

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:17 AM
 

Here are your own words from the 1st paragraph of your heart-felt letter.

"Clemson was established in 1889 to educate the citizens of South Carolina."

How much clearer does it need to be? Acceptance into a College is a Zero-sum game. Their are a limited number of slots for folks. If one is to execute your idea of exclusivity to SC residents, or even near-exclusivity, then their will be less slots for non- SC residents. So you will be readily admitting that kids who earned anywhere between 50 to 150 points less on the SAT are more worthy than an out-of-state student who earned the higher score? Ironically, The net result will be much higher tuition for every SC student and, if test scores have any predictable value, a lower potential achieving student body.


Nice post!***


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 3:22 PM
 




Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[3]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:55 AM
 

1) Room and board on campus is $9,144, so paying $8,000 for the "apartment 3 miles from campus" (that also has a shuttle) is a little misleading when you consider the space you get, the granite counter tops, and you're own room instead of living in a closet for a year.

2) The average SAT score of this year's freshman class was 1470 of those that were accepted and enrolled.

3) Leave out the "you missed out on my daughter" nonsense, that's ridiculous and sounds like extreme sour grapes.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:46 AM
 

He was trying to copy dabos “Deshaun didn’t miss out on the heisman, the heisman missed out on him” comment.


room alone on campus runs $9,000, meals (board) is separate***


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:34 AM
 



2018 purple level member

Re: room alone on campus runs $9,000, meals (board) is separate***


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:40 AM
 

It depends on where you're living, if you're a freshman in the shoe boxes or high rises then room and board is around $9k.

The nicer living arrangements on campus are between $8-10k just for room, but you don't necessarily need the meal plan at some of them as they have kitchens.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:54 AM
 

No, the average SAT score is around 1310-30. BTW my son got into Harvard but went to Clemson because the girls were prettier so it showed he was smart.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:56 AM
 

You have left out the major choice in this argument. If she chose a very popular major then surely they will be very selective with whom they accept, if she chose a closed major, then they will only accept x number of students every year, depending on how many openings they have...

I am sorry you feel slighted by the university though. I can't say I would'nt be frustrated in your situation either.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:57 AM
 

My daughter has breezed through Bridge and is looking forward to next year. I’m over it on a personal level, but it still doesn’t make it right.

For those of you that think this is about a dad that got his feelings hurt... step back.

If a kid has a 1200+ SAT and a 4.0 GPA, the kid should be able to get into a state school that is being subsidized by taxpayers. My point is that Clemson has lost it’s way and isn’t focused on it’s core mission.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:59 AM
 

If it's not about you as a dad then you shouldn't bring up anything to do with your daughter and should only focus on the statistics available.

Also, only about 10% of Clemson's budget comes from the state, so I'd say that's a far cry from being subsidized by it.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:02 AM
 

Clemson may not even get that much anymore, we are very close to being a private school with the amount of funding we recieve from the State


Correct....the last figures I saw were that about 8%


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:08 AM
 

of Clemson's budget comes via the SC legislative budget.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:23 AM
 

Thanks to gov. Haley she cut everything she could from Clemson. If she and Barker had their way Clemson wouldn’t have an AG program


That's outrageous

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:10 AM
 

As Clemson grows in popularity, the number of qualified applicants will grow too. But the school isn't growing in size, so it's going to be harder and harder to get in.

Your daughter is just like everybody else in the same boat. Sorry. Clemson doesn't owe it to people to let them in if there are more qualified applicants out there

2018 purple level member


What a 4.0 actually means


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 3:27 PM
 

In SC, there are 3 grading scales, college prep, honors, and AP/Dual credit. Depending on the level, he/she will receive different grade points. For example, a grade of 90 is equivalent to 4.0 (college prep), 4.5 (honors), and 5.0 (AP/Dual credit). Students at my school who are being accepted to Clemson have GPAs of 4.8 and have taken AP courses.


Sounds like South Carolina needs to build a wall.***


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 9:59 AM
 




Experience shows that


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:02 AM
 

Most all of the people who threaten never to give Clemson another cent, have not donated the first dollar.
We are a national university with a national brand. Finally!

2018 purple level member

gimme a break


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:06 AM
 

Clemson is a highly competitive academic institution. They cant accept everybody. Sorry your daughter missed the cut, but Clemson doesn't owe anybody anything and this letter makes you sound foolish

2018 purple level member


Re: gimme a break

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:21 AM
 

When kids get in over someone with better standards are foolish. I know of students with the right contacts who got in over someone with lower standards than the original posters daughter that is foolish. You telling kids the best or high standards do not matter. It’s who you know and how much money you have and politics.
And if you don’t believe that this is true then maybe you should do some research by talking to previous and current students and some parents. It can be very eye opening.

In a perfect world the best of the best are only accepted at Clemson but that is not always the case.


Message was edited by: wueagle86®


2018 orange level member

Re: gimme a break

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:26 AM
 

For all the ones you "know" that got in with the right contacts, etc, there are 10x more that got in simply because they were better students.

Sounds like sour grapes.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:08 AM
 

Good for you. My daughter had similar admission standards. I was just fortunate to be able to pay her rent every month and buy her food. Of coarse I had to learn to eat frozen dinners. Lol Was not quite that bad but when she bridged over they stuck her in the history Dept. She wanted to get into engineering.
Because the rising freshman received the engineering spots before they placed some of the bridge students they put her where ever they had an opening. Then she was advised by grad students not a Clemson staff advisor. She was put into classes for juniors without the proper prep courses.

I will say that Tri-County is a great school. In most normal situations you could rent a place for your daughter and let her go 1 year to TriCounty or let her attend a school where she could live at him then transfer to Clemson. But unfortunately the bridge program has all but eliminated that option. Sometimes I have wondered if Clemson and Tri County got together so it would help the growth of Tri County.

Just make sure you are very involved in her bridge over to Clemson. The first semester the put my daughter in a room with another student. This room was designed for 1 person. They slept 3 feet apart. But this only lasted a week. I went straight to the President of Clemson. His Chief of Staff got involved and she was in her own room in an off campus apartment with in days.

If I had been down there with her when she bridged over this would have never happened. After I raised enough fuss about her treatment they found a $10,000 scholarship for her.

Personally, I am not a big fan of the bridge program but it does ensure students get into Clemson the next year. I did read where someone’s son who knows the President got in with a GPA of less than 3.0. His post was possibly a prank IDK for sure, but if true it just shows what money and politics can do.

Sorry Your daughter did not get in. She is certainly the kind of student Clemson should be looking for!

2018 orange level member

Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:30 AM
 

Both my kids were excepted straight in. You got 10 grand for daughter that had to bridge and your b itching ?? Good grief


Pics of your daughter not loading


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:25 AM
 

Please post them below.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:31 AM
 

I would like to know the comparison of in state alumni vs. out of state alumni average yearly gift to the alumni association.

My gut tells me that alumni from SC who live and breathe Clemson their whole life give more than out of staters.

If my hypothesis is correct then Clemson will feel the pain soon enough to warrant a change in acceptance practices. Also add in the in state alumni who stop giving because their qualified child didn't get accepted.

It could cost Clemson in the long run.

Anyone know this kind of data? I hope I'm wrong for Clemson's sake.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 2:04 PM
 

Well seeing how the out-of-state enrollment has been stable, from a percentage perspective, for more than 35 years, I suspect you are wrong. From a donation perspective, I suspect that IPTAY makes more money "per capita" for in-state students because of the ability to purchase tickets is tied to it. I'm not sure that is the case for donations to the alumni association - my guess is it is pretty similar (and frankly donations to Clemson, excluding IPTAY, are relatively modest in the grand scheme of things).

2018 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

UNC System has a 82/18 rule.......out of state is capped at


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:32 AM
 

18%. Anything over that and they get dinged on state funding. This law has been in place since 1986. It's cost the UNC system a lot of $ compared to other states' schools because they aren't getting the out of state tuition rates on as many kids but there is also something about keeping good instate talent. Clemson has always been around 65/35..........it could be time for a discussion on this. Years ago I think it was not just a $ grab but also there was a higher level student(at least on paper- gpa/SAT) coming from out of state. I think the state is now 5mil people, and it puts out a lot more extremely qualified students out each year. I don't think Clemson has grown at the same pace. I imagine if there was a 82/18 rule at Clemson, the initial negative impact would not be that great from an avg. SAT/GPA standpoint. The cost would be fairly significant, but I imagine a large portion of those falling just below the cut-line would be willing to pay out of state tuition rates to go to Clemson vs. not. Changing to something like UNC has would probably put another 800 or so in-state students into Clemson each year.


Re: UNC System has a 82/18 rule.......out of state is capped at


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:36 AM
 

UNC raises a ton of money through giving.

Folks in NC that went to UNC give back at a high rate.

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He was talking about all of the UNC schools not just UNC


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 1:46 PM
 

NC schools are way cheaper than Clemson.

NC State is right at $9000 a year in-state

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Re: UNC System has a 82/18 rule.......out of state is capped at

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:40 AM
 

I'm sure that UNC gets more funds from the state than Clemson does though.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:35 AM
 

There's always more that could've been done. The admissions process is not rigged and furthermore this just indicates that her peers outperformed her and are more deserving of admissions. There's more to the story. For example did she apply to the nursing program (highly selective), engineering or business (both very selective). Do not waste President Clements time with petty requests/letters like this


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:40 AM
 

I give up. You people are hung up on my personal situation even though we are over it. Back to my point...

Some see through the Bridge program. Some believe it’s about admissions statistics and capturing revenue. Some believe Clemson may have lost it’s way when it comes to it’s alumni and Clemson’s role in educating the qualified citizens of South Carolina.

The point of my post was to ask alumni and taxpayers to make their voices heard.

I love my school, I just disagree with the direction it is heading on this issue.


I hear you........my kids aren't to this point yet but


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 10:56 AM
 

it's only going to get worse. I have no idea where they will land as we are several years away with our oldest and much longer with our youngest. They both are in Honors/Gifted/AP classes and do well but who knows how they will do on the SAT or what their class rank will end up being. The school they go to is a stacked deck in that regards and literally the GPA/class rank is so competitive that you can tumble 5-10 spots or worse by having the "bad" teacher that doesn't give anyone A's while their counterparts end up with the "good" teacher who is generous grader for the exact same class. Half of those responding to you can't master reading comprehension of your initial post to realize you're talking about a)last admission cycle and that the letter was already sent and b)that there is a broader concern here.


Re: I hear you........my kids aren't to this point yet but

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:02 AM
 

It sure seems like everyone wants Clemson to be a better institution of higher learning...unless their kids are affected by the outcome. I'm glad the school has restrained growth and attracted better students through the years. Is 65/35 the right ratio...perhaps some adjustment is in order...I don't know. But, because I took economics at Clemson, I do know that, with an adjustment in the ration, the in-state tuition will rise to maintain the current revenues. ;) But...that's better than out-of-state tuition.

I'm still grappling with the problems folks have with the Bridge program. Isn't that a viable alternative to a flat out 'No'? Doesn't that provide something of a fast-track to acceptance into Clemson by Year 2, as opposed to being placed in a barrel with all the other 'transfers' seeking admission?

In some respects, this sounds like the same griping over recruiting results...the bloody glass is always half empty! Come on, Man/men/women/children!


You are spot-on about the bridge


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:14 AM
 

I think the backlash is mostly from butthurt parents and students who feel like they "aren't wanted" or are too prideful to have to tell people that they didn't get right in to Clemson

2018 purple level member


from my limited knowledge of the bridge program, it sounds


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:19 AM
 

like the pluses should outweigh the minuses. Again, I'm not close enough to that situation. While I agree competition is great, it may be time to start tightening the screws on out of state some. I also think that where this is headed, you will not recognize Clemson in 10-20 years. I think the things that made it great and desirable will also spell it's demise to many of it's alumni and supporters.


I still don't get your point?


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:12 AM
 

Your daughter didn't get into Clemson. I know that might be hard for you to wrap your head around, but there were more qualified people out there that made the cut and yours didn't. What is your point? Does Clemson owe you something?

Perhaps you don't realize that South Carolina is one of the lowest states for test scores....maybe there are more qualified students in other states?

Clemson is a small school. And now, Clemson has a higher profile than ever. Most people aren't going to get in, and I'm sorry it was your daughter that was a victim of this, but that's just reality. It sounds like you and some of these other parents need to start learning how to teach your children to deal with adversity and overcome obstacles instead of crying and throwing a fit every time the world doesn't work out in your favor. Life isn't fair

Not trying to be mean, just my honest opinion on it

2018 purple level member


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:24 AM
 

Something seems wrong with all these 4.0+ getting under 1300 on the SAT. All of these students can't be bad test takers. To get over 4.0 don't the students have to take honors and AP courses and be getting "A"s in those courses? Students in these classes shouldn't have any problems with the basic algebra and language skills on the SAT. Perhaps the quality of instruction in these honors and AP courses should be reviewed.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:36 AM
 

4.0 and AP courses are mutually exclusive, although that said, the curriculum should be college-prep based.

Also, remember that today's SAT scores are not equal to the scores of us 'silver foxes/foxettes'. Several years back, I saw a calculation that adjusted for the time period, which I reviewed. By modern scores, I thought I was dumb as a box of rocks (no disrespect to the rocks, by the way!) and wondered what pushed Clemson to ever accept me. Once the 'translation' was done, I felt better about their decision! ;)


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:43 AM
 

How are they exclusive? On a 4.0 scale the only way to get above a 4.0 to say a 4.2 or 4.3 as some here claim, is to take weighted classes (AP or honors) and to do well in those courses.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 11:47 AM
 

I'd like to know how many of the ones taking the AP courses actually get credit for them by passing the tests.

It's one thing to make the good grades by doing homework and passing tests given by the teacher. But the actual end of course tests are a much better measuring stick.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 6:06 PM
 

They're exclusive insofar as a student can have a 4.0 and not take AP courses. Whether that translates to an admission with a lot of extra-curriculars or, moreso, a high SAT score...I don't know. Lastly, not all 4.0's are created equally...it's not like teaching and grades are uniform from school to school...or district...and certainly, state.


everybody's kid seems to be an honor student nowadays


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 3:34 PM
 

or is just a coincidence that all TigerNet posters have gifted children?

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 6:30 PM
 


Something seems wrong with all these 4.0+ getting under 1300 on the SAT. All of these students can't be bad test takers. To get over 4.0 don't the students have to take honors and AP courses and be getting "A"s in those courses? Students in these classes shouldn't have any problems with the basic algebra and language skills on the SAT. Perhaps the quality of instruction in these honors and AP courses should be reviewed.



They are herding kids into AP classes that either have no business being in a true AP class or they are putting them in too many AP classes. No high school student should be in AP English, math, history, science, as well as "special" classes like AP music, art history teacher cadet and so on. The school system is going to make AP classes worthless in the next 5 years as fewer and fewer pass the AP exams. AP is meant to be taught like a college class and it's not even close anymore. Some of my students have 6 AP classes that's 18 hours when I was in college you had to get it signed off on to take that many credit hours in a semester before your JR year.


I looked at 2017 numbers, and either something really weird

[3]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 12:15 PM
 

happened in 2016 or you had your numbers backwards.

2017:

Applied- 15,699 in state | 6,697 out of state
Accepted- 7,864 in state | 3,619 out of state
Enrolled- 2,140 in state | 1,510 out of state

https://www.clemson.edu/admissions/undergraduate/documents/breakfast-presentation.pdf

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Re: I looked at 2017 numbers, and either something really weird


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 5:05 PM
 

I’m a Clemson man and you are CORRECT. I went back and compared data and I take ownership of the mistake. The numbers should be reversed and the percentage even lower. I’m not proud of the mistake especially sense I value data and sent it to the President. It was an honest mistake that may reflect poorly on my competency but it does not change my position. I don’t have all the exact data I must have used but it should read...

“In 2016, 23,507 students applied to Clemson. Of those applications, Clemson accepted only 8053 In-State applications while accepting 3836 Out-Of-State applications. In fact, less than 15% of South Carolina students who applied, ended up enrolling at Clemson”.


Re: I looked at 2017 numbers, and either something really weird


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 5:21 PM
 

So if the numbers hold true to averages then around 16,000 in-state students applied and roughly 50% of those applicants were accepted, which holds true to the norm of our acceptance rates.

The 15% enrollment you mention can't really be used as once an applicant is accepted it is then their choice to enroll at Clemson, or any other school at which they were accepted.

With the Bridge Program that gives an additional 2,500 acceptance letters for about 800 other spots. Factoring those numbers in that means roughly 66% of in-state applicants are accepted in one way or another to Clemson.

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Re: I looked at 2017 numbers, and either something really weird


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 5:52 PM
 

I understand your point but I’m not sure it’s fair to lump 800 Bridge students into the Clemson’s freshman enrollment numbers. Trust me, these kids do not feel like Clemson students that first year. I believe the vast majority of the kids enrolled in bridge would have gotten in 10-15 years ago. I also believe the program was setup to inflate statistics and manipulate rankings. It was a smart move on Clemson’s part. It has worked.

A 1250 SAT score doesn’t help my numbers so let’s Bridge these kids to keep our data inflated. We’ll also capture a portion of the fees, without having to own the freshmen drop out rate. Like I said, smart. Next year they’ll even live on campus but take classes at TCT. All of this so Clemson move up one spot in a magazine. Meanwhile, parents are still shelling out money equivalent to a freshman year at Clemson for a tech school.

I felt this way before my family was impacted and that hasn’t changed.


Re: I looked at 2017 numbers, and either something really weird


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 6:01 PM
 

My wife went through the Bridge program, so I know exactly what these kids are going through as I was dating her at the time and prior to going to Clemson.

They have access to pretty much everything Clemson students do and this year will be living on campus. They will not be paying the same fees because they pay the tuition rates at TCTC, which are much cheaper than at Clemson.

Sure, they have to pay for room and board, however, that's something you would have to pay for anyways unless you lived close by.

Another way to look at it is that if there was no Bridge program, your daughter would have been straight denied, and transfers don't always work out. I can lump the Bridge class into the acceptance numbers because so long as you complete 30 hours of coursework with a 2.5 GPA you are guaranteed to Bridge over to Clemson.

It's fine if you think it was all a money grab, or to inflate numbers, but the fact of the matter is that the in-state to out of state ratio has not changed, general enrollment numbers have not changed drastically, so therefore the bridge program is helping students who otherwise would have been denied get into Clemson through a more guaranteed avenue.

Again, nothing against you, or your thoughts and feelings on the program, I'm just saying it worked for my wife and she saved more money than I who went straight into Clemson, and it works for hundreds of new students each year as well.

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Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 1:30 PM
 

Wow. Some of you need to re-read the original post. The lack of reading comprehension makes rethink my original post. Maybe we need to raise standards even higher because it’s obvious some of you shouldn’t have been accepted either.


Or maybe you just don't get it?

[2]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 1:34 PM
 

That's my impression, since you haven't responded to any of my posts yet, or anybody else, for that matter. You keep harping on everybody else, but maybe it's just you?

Just a hunch, though

2018 purple level member


Re: Or maybe you just don't get it?


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 3:13 PM
 

I’m not sure how you would like me to respond. I made my argument and asked others that share the same thoughts to speak up. I included the letter as an example of discourse. Instead of focusing on the core of my argument, some attacked me as foolish for speaking my mind or being “hurt” by my personal situation.

I assure you am I am not foolish and I am not alone in my concerns.

In response to your requests... For what it’s worth, my daughter graduated with AP credits, was accepted into honors college at South Carolina and applied in 3 of the least competitive majors. I used the letter as an example of discourse but ONCE AGAIN, it is over and we have moved on.

That does not change my argument and I will continue to make it. Apparently It’s okay to be for protecting American jobs, but not okay to fight against fundamentally transforming an institution we all love. Apparently, it’s also not okay to fight for the very qualified children of alumni or worthy taxpaying citizens of SC.

As a proud Class of ‘96 graduate, I appreciate your point of view. I get it. I’m proud of my degree. We all have a lot to be proud of.

As Americans and Tigers, we can agree to disagree and that is completely fine. I would hope as both, the people on this board would do so respectfully.


ok....

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 5:37 PM
 

I appreciate the response. I am not trying to attack you personally

But I still don't understand what your point is, or what argument you are trying to make.

There are literally THOUSANDS of "qualified" students that will be turned away from Clemson every year. Despite your daughter having good grades & AP credits, it still wasn't good enough to make the cut this year, and that's really unfortunate for you guys.

But how is this Clemson's fault? Or the University President's fault?

Do you think that your daughter should be entitled to attend Clemson over others who may be more qualified simply because she lives in-state? Or because she is a legacy?

You accused people speaking out against your opinion of "lacking reading comprehension," so I went back and re-read your original post for the 4th or 5th time, just to make sure I wasn't missing anything....you said:

"My daughter is finishing bridge this year and has had a good experience. We accepted the situation and moved on but it doesn’t make it right"

To this I say....what? You openly admit that your daughter had a good experience with the Bridge program. It allowed her (like so many others) to have a chance to WORK their way into Clemson instead of being flat-out declined (like so many others) who WISH they could have had the bridge opportunity.

Then you go on to say "it isn't right"

.......so it isn't right that there is a program in place that HELPS students get into Clemson after a year? Seriously, what on Earth isn't right about that? If your daughter had a good experience that is literally BRIDGING her into Clemson, what's your problem with it? Are you & your kids too proud to admit you had to go the Bridge route to get there?

What do you think WOULD be right? Should Clemson admit every in-state student with a 4.0 or higher? Should Clemson admit every legacy student?

The fact of the matter is this: Clemson HAS to draw the line somewhere. And unfortunately, as Clemson becomes more and more in-demand, that line is going to continue to cut off many students who might have gotten in 10 years ago. Times have changed, and admission standards are tough.

Quite frankly, if your daughter really measured up to those who DID get accepted, she would be in too. Test scores mean a lot more than grades, AP classes, and extracurricular activities. It may be hard to see or admit as a parent, but maybe, just maybe, your daughter didn't quite measure up to those who did.

And at the end of the day, the Bridge program is still an option! Good grief, if I were you, I would be thankful that an opportunity to attend Clemson even exists. You and your daughter could each learn a lesson in humility & gratitude that you have a CHANCE to get to Clemson, but instead you choose to attack the University, its President, & admissions office because you guys didn't get exactly what you want. I can't speak for you as a parent, but I feel like you have an opportunity to teach your daughter a very valuable lesson with this. But instead, you go the complete opposite direction and start playing the victim card.

And THAT is why I have an issue with your "argument" and will continue to play devil's advocate

I will leave you with a personal anecdote: In high school, I got cut from the baseball team. It killed me because baseball had been my passion my whole life up to that point. So I spent the entire offseason training. I went to private lessons 2x/week, went to a conditioning trainer 2x/week, and did everything I could do to improve....and I did. In fact, I got a whole lot better. The next year, I got cut again. It didn't matter that I worked harder than everybody else, or that I genuinely wanted to make that team more than anybody else who tried out. I wasn't a bad player by any means. The fact was this: I went to a big, competitive high school and I just wasn't good enough. Did my parents speak out against the school or the coach? Did they write a letter demanding I be admitted to the team? Did they threaten to pull me out of school?

Clemson is no different. Big, competitive school. Lots of kids, even some of the good ones, are going to get cut.

2018 purple level member


Re: ok....


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 6:31 PM
 

You still seem very concerned about my daughter’s situation. I am not. It has little to do with my position. We will have to agree to disagree.

My concerns are the use of the Bridge program to inflate statistics and Clemson’s evolving admission standards. I want Clemson to be a great academic institution but educating students, especially South Carolinians, should take precedence over a magazine ranking.


Where to begin....


Posted: Feb 14, 2018 2:17 PM
 

EDIT: This was more long winded than I had anticipated. My apologies. But I took the time to think it out and write it, so, here it goes....


I'm not concerned with your daughter's situation....At this point, I'm more interested in trying to understand what you hoped to get out of this? And even more so, maybe shed some light on a different point of view you might not have thought of before...

Let me start from the beginning: You came on here, to a public message board, and started a discussion on a topic that is highly controversial and will have several different points of view.

I know you wanted folks with a similar viewpoint to chime in and support you, but your post also drew criticism from myself and others. Instead of engaging with those who disagreed, you continued to make more posts saying that people had missed the point, and even went so far as to insult people by saying they "lacked reading comprehension" and "shouldn't have been accepted to Clemson" just because they might see things a different way than you do. I find that insulting and obtuse.

Like I said before, maybe it's just YOU that doesn't get it?

Right off the bat, you expressed your feelings that the Bridge situation that you and many others go through "isn't right." You went on to rally others to "take a stand" and even went so far as to draft up a letter to the President of the University, saying that Clemson "missed out on" your daughter. You are literally attacking Clemson and blaming them for your daughter not being accepted.

You said, "If a kid has a 1200+ SAT and a 4.0 GPA, the kid should be able to get into a state school that is being subsidized by taxpayers. My point is that Clemson has lost it’s way and isn’t focused on it’s core mission."

First of all, newsflash: A 4.0 hardly means anything, and a 1200 SAT score really isn't that great regarding admissions to a highly competitive school like Clemson. I got accepted in 2009, and even back then, a 1200 wouldn't have gotten me in. The point I first tried to make was simply that your daughter got beat out by others. That may be a tough pill to swallow, but it is what it is.

Clemson HAS to draw the line somewhere. They CAN NOT admit every in-state kid with a 4.0 and a 1200 SAT score. As the University profile and popularity increases, so will the number of students that inevitable get declined. It's a simple matter of supply and demand.

I really don't get why you haven't been able to understand this.

Now, as for the Bridge program.....do you really think it was put in place to inflate statistics and make Clemson look better? I am a conspiracy theorist myself, but that is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard. Like I said before, EVERY SINGLE MAJOR UNIVERSITY has a program like this with the local Tech school. The exact same thing exists at UGA, and those kids that got sent to Gainesville State were THRILLED to have the opportunity to be in Athens and work their way to UGA.

Instead of looking at The Bridge as an evil entity put in place to boost Clemson, why not look at it for what it really is? A program that gives THOUSANDS of kids an opportunity to attend Clemson at all. Would you prefer that these kids all be flat out declined? Would that make you feel better? Shame on Clemson for trying to allow more kids to achieve their dreams of graduating with a Clemson degree!

You think it isn't fair that Bridge kids have to live off-campus and commute? Well, sorry, but that's part of the deal. It isn't Clemson. It's the BRIDGE TO CLEMSON. For what it's worth, it was way more expensive for me to live in Byrnes as a freshman than it was for me to live off campus later on, and Byrnes was an absolute dump. I would have loved to be off campus as a freshman.

And as far as the whole "Clemson has lost its way" nonsense...well...that's just your opinion. But I think that is even more ridiculous than your skewed opinions on the Bridge program. Clemson is out to be the very best University it can possibly be. This is reflected not only by the increasingly difficult standards of admission, but also by The Bridge program itself, by trying to help out a few kids who were worthy of admission, but surpassed by others who may have been MORE worthy.

Times have changed since the 1880's, but you act like Clemson has stopped admitting & educating in-state students. The ratio of in-state to out of state hasn't changed at all....It's just harder to get in these days because there are way more kids applying and the school isn't going to double in size.

It's really simple, I honestly don't get why you are having trouble grasping this: Your daughter was worthy of admission, but there were others who were more worthy. So they gave her the opportunity to work her way to becoming a Clemson graduate....and here you are, trying to raise public outcry and taking the University to task like they owe you something or did something wrong.

Honestly, it just oozes "sour grapes," and MY humble opinion is that you are embodying the "coddling, entitled parent" that believes their child can do no wrong.

Your kid didn't make the cut. Clemson still gave her a chance. You feel slighted because of that.

The Bridge is a wonderful opportunity that many, many kids & parents are happy to have as an option...if you feel like you and yours are above The Bridge program, or look down on it as something lesser than getting right in to Clemson as a freshman...then go elsewhere.

Clemson is giving her a chance. They are not "missing out" on your daughter. If she really wants to go to Clemson, and you are fueling the fire against that because of your personal, negative opinion of the Bridge program, then it is YOU who is pushing HER to miss out on Clemson.

Whatever you choose, we are Tigers for life. I may sound like an ####### to you, but I am simply playing devil's advocate, and speaking as a voice of neutrality. Your daughter will be successful no matter where she ends up.

But please, in the future, don't come on a public forum and initiate a controversial discussion, only to back off and resort to personal attacks upon encountering opinions that do not align with your own.

Happy Valentine's Day, Reality2003, and very best of luck to you & your family, wherever they may end up...

2018 purple level member


Clemson isn’t for everyone


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 3:58 PM
 

I enrolled at Clemson in the fall of 1998. I had only visited the campus once prior to enrolling. Clemson was my backup plan.

My parents both attended UNC-Chapel Hill. I was raised a die hard Tar Heel. I grew up in Charleston, attended the Academic Magnet High School, which is considered a top 10 public high school in the country, had enough AP credits to start Clemson as a sophomore. I scored 1420 on the SAT. I went to Clemson because i didn’t get into UNC. Getting into that school out of state is practically impossible.

While i was very unhappy about my situation it ended up being the greatest thing ever to happen to me. I realized that i was supposed to go to a Clemson. It has made me into the person i am today. I am sorry that your daughter is experiencing this disappointment, but maybe she isn’t supposed to go to a Clemson. Maybe she will realize that whatever school she attends is where she was supposed to be all along.

She can still cheer for the Tigers. I still cheer for the Tar Heels in basketball (as long as they aren’t playing Clemson).

I has friends who grew up wanting to go to Clemson their entire lives, then when they got there, they realized it wasn’t for them and they left. Clemson wasn’t for them, just like UNC wasn’t for me.


Re: Clemson isn’t for everyone


Posted: Feb 13, 2018 6:48 PM
 

I grew up a Tarheel. I still pull for them in Basketball too. Your journey sounds just like mine. Clemson was my backup school when UNC put me on a waiting list.

Clemson is the best thing that ever happened to me and that’s why I’m passionate about protecting it. The last thing I want to do is show up in Clemson and feel like I’m in Chapel Hill or Durham. And yes, I’m concerned that is the direction we are heading.


I don't think so...


Posted: Feb 14, 2018 4:48 PM
 

I don't think Clemson will ever have that snobbish, "elitist" aura about it that exists at UNC or Duke or UVA

2018 purple level member


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 13, 2018 5:32 PM
 

I would think it could have been her declared major. Although they have caught on, but sometimes you need to declare a major that will get you in and then change your major once enrolled and admitted

2018 orange level member

Go Tigers! Once A Tiger Always A Tiger


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions


Posted: Feb 14, 2018 3:34 PM
 

Don't be so small minded. Bright out of state students provide different perspectives needed by all young minds; which is part of a well rounded education for SC students. The charter did not specify 100% SC citizens. I think the 65/35 mandate is good judgement and policy for Clemson if it strives to make an impact nationally. Being able to reach out to the brightest minds in country can only make Clemson and it's citizens better, which is what we should all want. If your kid can't make the cut they need to learn a life lesson; suck it up, and find another path to a successful career.


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 14, 2018 4:19 PM
 

I wholeheartedly agree with Trainers letter. I have three Grandsons who hope to go to Clemson as I did. I wonder if they will be accepted. They are proud South Carolinians,"born and bred"!


Re: Letter To President Clements regarding Admissions

[1]
Posted: Feb 14, 2018 9:12 PM
 

The other thing that bothers me is that a lot of out of state students that Clemson wants, get offered in state tuition. My daughter in law from Minnesota did. That is what made her come to Clemson. When I applied to Clemson a long, long time ago, they sent me a letter saying I needed to change my choice of major in order to get in. They even gave me a list to choose from. I did and I got in.

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