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Topic: JL vs BB
Replies: 20   Last Post: Jun 5, 2015 3:17 PM by: orangeblood10
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Replies: 20  

JL vs BB

[3]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 12:25 PM
 

First off I want to say I'm a JL supporter. With that being said tho, I understand making the change. We were not trending in the right direction. Its hard to think that magically everything was going to turn back around. But let's not be naive here, JL wasn't all to blame, I think there are other factors that none of us know about.

But all that is fine. The thing that drives me nuts is the never ending support of BB. Let's be totally honest here. Is our basketball program in better shape or worse since he took over....and none of this talk about he needs to get his players in. Well, he gets players, they just seem to all transfer.

In short, the baseball program wasn't the one dying, its our basketball program.


CBB does not have never-ending support

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 12:44 PM
 

There was no way he could be let go after last basketball season with renovations coming this year. Also, what is the percentage of CBB players transferring out compared to other programs? The transfers are a problem across the country, I don't think he experiences more than other programs...but then again I haven't seen the actual numbers.

My guess is, if we aren't making the tourney over the next 2 years he's gone, and possibly over next season. However, I would think he gets the benefit of recruiting and coaching in the renovated arena at least one year.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: CBB does not have never-ending support

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 12:49 PM
 

not sure of the numbers for the 2014-2015 season, but after the 2013-2014 season there were around 450 transfers for 351 D1 teams.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2014/04/25/college-basketball-transfers-proliferate-various-reasons/8150561/

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Re: CBB does not have never-ending support

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:08 PM
 

I disagree...this coming season would have been the perfect scenario in which to acclimate a new coaching staff....then to come back the following season to the newly renovated Littlejohn would be much more forward moving for the basketball program in starting refreshed....but to lock BB in to a 2.5 mil contract per year extension which he in no way deserved was the most foolish decision DRad has made to date....


At the time that extension was given, the

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:41 PM
 

future was looking bright. I don't have a problem with that timing. 6 years was probably excessive, but everything about the program seemed positive. Hiring a new coach after this last season would've been setting him up to fail and expensive given the extension.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Agree. Transfers are much too common and predictable to be


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:27 PM
 

used as an excuse for not producing wins on the court. It's how you use the opportunity to improve your team that matters.

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Agree that BB has gotten the benefit of the doubt more so

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 12:55 PM
 

than others. But the heat is on him now and if we don't see improvement this year, I think D-Rad makes a move to get a new coach for our move back into the renovated LJ. The excuses from BB supporters about what he was (and wasn't) left by OP are so off-base. OP left the program in fine shape with some really good upperclassmen and a promising freshmen class. BB has now had five years and we seem to be regressing. Time will tell with the transfers and returnees the next year. Again, if we stink again next year, I think he's gone.

That all said, it's comparing apples and oranges when comparing out basketball coach to either our football or baseball coaches. Football obviously drives the bus at Clemson, it has tremendous support from the administration and alums, we have had great success and are set up for even more success. Baseball has also had tremendous success throughout the years and much more support than hoops, which sometimes seems like an afterthought at Clemson. We can't even get students to the games with free tickets. Overall, we just don't care that much about basketball. Thus, the bottom line is that it is much harder to win at Clemson in hoops than it is in football or baseball.


BB was brought in to build the program


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 12:58 PM
 

OP was a good coach, but his style and program building left us with really nowhere to go that would cause long term stable success. All you can really do is give BB the chance to sink or swim. Thus far the results have been mixed at best, and we're about to undergo a trying year where we don't play at home, so you can't saddle a new coach with that. So we're 1 to 2 years from making that decision. And I'll trust folks who know way more than I do to make that decision when the time comes.

It's impossible to compare the reasoning between keeping a coach of a program with great tradition and one with very little actual success.

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The program had been built. BB was brough in to

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:45 PM
 

continue the success we had been experiencing and to get over the hump of losing in the first round of the tourney every year. Luckily, we haven't lost a first round game in the tourney since CBB was hired.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Agreed

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:00 PM
 

There is a double standard for sure.


Not a double standard

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:03 PM
 

A different standard.

As there has to be when comparing two totally different tasks. Equating standards Baseball (where we have a great tradition) with basketball (where we simply don't) doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: Not a double standard


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:14 PM
 

Is baseball on a downward trajectory? Yes
Is basketball on a downward trajectory? Yes

Was the baseball coach fired? Yes
Was the basketball coach fired? No


Boy you make these decisions look really simple. You should


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:59 PM
 

probably apply for an AD position.


Help me out for a second.


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:03 PM
 

Has BB REFUSED to do what his boss has asked him to do in order to stay at Clemson ?


basketball doesn't have as much expectations


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:11 PM
 

Because they have never been good, in 20 years, and they aren't trending down maybe because they have not been up in a long time. it is not Jack's fault that negative talk has hurt the program but the results are the same


Re: JL vs BB

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:12 PM
 

Brownell is building.

Jack was tearing down.

Totally opposite.

Upward mobility vs decline.

DRAD was correct when he used the term "plateau".


Re: JL vs BB


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:16 PM
 

What is Brownell building up to......the NIT?

He inherited a team team that had been on an upward trajectory and destroyed it.

In his 4th year we did not even make the CBI!!!


Re: JL vs BB

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:20 PM
 

He's changing the culture and building a program.....from scratch.

It's a different system. It's a different mindset. It's not a quick fix but it is a program that will withstand time.

Forrest...........................Trees


Last year was his 5th year. Using two scholarships on guys

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:23 PM
 

who can't play next year tells me that he feels he has two more years to right the ship and lowers expectations for next year, plus he has the excuse of not playing at home.

The buyout drops dramatically in May after next season. Unfortunately, that is a bit too late if we should continue to struggle next year, as the good coaches will have been hired. Therefore, two more years unless the bottom just falls out next year.

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Re: JL vs BB

[1]
Posted: Jun 5, 2015 1:29 PM
 

Coach Brownell has two years or he will be gone.

That is his situation period.

Only way he gets fired this year is if there is a monumental collapse and I dont see that happening.

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null


There are a few things in BB's favor (Sorry a little long)


Posted: Jun 5, 2015 3:17 PM
 

First, as people have mentioned, the expectations for the basketball program aren't as high as for other sports that have a history success, conference and national championships (i.e. Football, Baseball, Soccer, Golf, and Track and Field).

The basketball team has only had a spattering of success throughout history. Granted we all want the basketball program to be better. With that said though, a huge tick in Brad Brownell's favor is that he has the highest conference winning percentage in Clemson history. That bears repeating. Brad Brownell has the best winning percentage against ACC competition than any other basketball coach in Clemson history. That should not be ignored, but is seems that for most here it has.

Do I think CBB should have unlimited rope at this point? Absolutely not. But, as I have seen other mention, with the team playing in Gville next year and LJ being rebuilt then I definitely think he should get 2 more years to right the ship. He is a good coach and has done good with what he has. However, he and his staff need to start recruiting much better.

To bring up the transfer is absolute asinine. In 2014 there were nearly 700 college basketball transfers and in 2015 it is expected that there will be more than 800 when it is all said and done. That is the new normal in college basketball and you can expect that where will continue to be 1 or 2 transfer from not only every Clemson team every year going forward but from every ACC team. Syracuse is the only team to not have a single transfer in 2013 and 2014. But that changed this year and they have had 2 transfer.

One thing that bothers me is that is seems that the Negative Nelly's and the Naysayers have gotten what the were crusading for with the dismissal of JL and now with nothing left to do seem to be turning their sights on CBB. People need to remember that just because you get rid of a coach and hire another doesn't mean you will be better off. Everyone wanted Hatfield run off and we got Tommy West (not a bad guy just not a great coach). Rick Barnes is replaced by Larry Shyatt...Need I saw more about that one? Look at USC baseball coming off back to back championships, their coach takes the AD job and their baseball program is back in the toilet (where as a clemson fan I hope it would stay). Don't let the lessons of the past go unnoticed or you are doomed to repeat them.


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