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All-In [44026]
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I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 7:53 PM
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Can someone help me understand when the decision was made for Clemson to increase its enrollment so aggressively? And why? It seemed to me that our enrollment was about 17,000 for a number of years. I thought this was a good size - large enough for a lot of diversity of people and majors, but small enough to still provide smaller class sizes and avoid the feel one gets at large state universities.
However, now we are at around 22,000 last time I checked, with the supposed goal to reach 30,000. I’m all for progress, and realize that Clemson’s reputation academically is very strong, but I am afraid that we will lose our charm if we get too large. I am also concerned that we will dilute the quality of our student body if we get too large.
I also realize that the state of SC doesn’t provide much funding these days. However, if that’s a concern, then I would rather become a private school, or as an alternative, accept more out of state students. I don’t understand why some people feel that we have to become just another large state school.
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Orange Blooded [3413]
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Well based on Mr. Clemson's will
Jun 12, 2018, 7:57 PM
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We can't become a private school because the state of SC already accepted his gift. I have no qualms about the growth, provided we continue to maintain the current academic excellence.
Coming from a current in-state student, I wish there'd be a varied out of state rate for those (above the Mason-Dixon) to pay a higher rate than those below the Mason-Dixon (but you can't do that can you).
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All-In [44026]
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I’m confident that Clemson could become private
Jun 12, 2018, 8:02 PM
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if it really wanted to. It would be a very complicated and lengthy process, but I’m sure lawyers could work it out.
I’m not saying that Clemson should try to do that, but I also don’t feel that getting too large and diluting our quality is what Mr. Clemson had in mind either.
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All-In [27366]
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It's a corporation now, not an educational institution.***
Jun 12, 2018, 7:58 PM
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All-In [44026]
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Hard to argue with that notion.***
Jun 12, 2018, 8:03 PM
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All-In [27366]
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Orange Blooded [4572]
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Orange Blooded [4572]
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Re: Here ya go...
Jun 12, 2018, 8:11 PM
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And I just want to point out that the enrollment numbers of Clemson has not been keeping pace with the growth of the state. That is, it's much more difficult to get into Clemson now that it has ever been in the history of Clemson. And while I agree with the general concept of "Dagnabit there are too many students at Clemson." I certainly can see how Clemson is failing to keep up with demand as a state college.
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Commissioner [905]
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Re: Here ya go...
Jun 12, 2018, 8:27 PM
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Lets face it. We didn’t really serve the entire state until Harvey Gantt and integration in 1962 or 63. So some of the early growth numbers are skewed. Of course there is also the female factor. All thst said, Best is the Standard! In the 70s enrollment was artificially capped at around 10,000. It was and is a good place. I have mixed feelings on growth but they are just that, feelings. In reality if you are not growing in some way, you are dying. Lets choose continuous improvement and reasonable growth. As to public versus private, we only get a small percentage of operating funds from the state. There are good and bad points to being a state run institution. Given the sad state of state government I doubt Mr. Clemson would object either way if the benefits outweighed the risks.
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Mascot [17]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:11 PM
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Amen brother. 3 kids to graduate. Its all about the. Money.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:12 PM
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Bigger student body means more tuition revenue, bigger faculty with more chances for research/grants, bigger alumni base to tap for fundraising.
Sure it will lose some of the traditional small town college feel but that process has already started with all the development downtown the last few years. Also some infrastructure issues that would need to be addressed with the student population almost doubling in a decade's time.
I'm not a huge fan of that big or rapid of an increase but the game is to make money now and that's what they're doing.
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Legend [16764]
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How many of those enrolled
Jun 12, 2018, 8:18 PM
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Are actually at the auto site in Greenville, or internships elsewhere, or study abroad. Are there other offsite locations now?
I do wish Clemson would take over Trident Tech in Charleston and help meet the needs in the Low Country. A freshman year can be done anywhere...it's years 2-4 that 'specialize', to varying degrees. Frankly, I despise the frosh year waste of $$. All higher education needs to wake up on that point.
PS: I'm so glad to have had my four years in Clemson! Then again, I was too stupid to make it 5!
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Re: How many of those enrolled
Jun 12, 2018, 8:29 PM
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Clemson owns a horticulture research facility in Charleston and a wind turbine facility in Charleston.
I think it would be a great idea for them to have a Charleston campus for freshman and a few specialty classes.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Commissioner [905]
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All-In [25941]
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All-In [44026]
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The in-state to out-of-state ratio is still the same.***
Jun 12, 2018, 11:28 PM
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All-In [38422]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:16 PM
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As long as the quality of student , the quality of student life and the quality of the education are held in high regard .. I'm fur it .
Message was edited by: Tigerdug23®
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Commissioner [905]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:39 PM
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Best is the standard. Don’t grow just to grow.
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110%er [7182]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 13, 2018, 1:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment ] |
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I agree with this statement, so long as we continue to hold students to that standard. But I also feel we are transitioning away from what Mr. Clemson said in his will: a school for the citizens of this great state. There is a fine line to draw there, & I don’t know that number. We seem to be chasing that elusive national ranking in spite of what Mr. Clemson wanted. It’s a sign of the times & I get that. But we really should be more focused on the state citizens more than making sure we get that grant because we admitted a kid from Montana (or wherever). We can still reach a top 20 school while still serving this wonderful state.
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CU Guru [1686]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:21 PM
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Tuition cost for instate students crazy. I only payed 1/3 what students are paying now. Something has to be done to lower cost.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:23 PM
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Tell me about it … I have to choose between a foot and/or a hand this fall … for a 3rd year in a row. Getting harder to type .
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CU Guru [1428]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment ] |
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Well, blame your state government not the university. States funding of university is around the level is in the 1970s. That's insane. If you want to learn about the real issues in higher education finance, I suggest a book called degrees of inequity by Suzanne Mettler.
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CU Guru [1273]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 10:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment ] |
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When I enrolled in Clemson as an out-of-state student (really not that long ago at all, and from upstate NY), I distinctly remember my room, board & tuition being less than $1,100.00 (matriculation might have been less than another $100.00) and COMPLAINING that in-state students only paid exactly HALF that amount!!! About half of the out-of-state students in my class in the College of Architecture were form NJ (imagine that?) My, how times have changed.... And at the time, Clemson was rated as one of the top three schools in the country for Architecture, and I often reflect on the fact that I got the best education these United States of America could, or ever will, offer - and all for a mere pittance. Then again, some things never change....
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CU Guru [1273]
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...and btw, Harvey Gantt
Jun 12, 2018, 10:51 PM
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was a graduate architect from Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [3650]
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Commissioner [905]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 8:41 PM
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BOT has no average Joes. All are quite well off and are looking at this mostly as a business. Some good elements to that but also some bad.
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All-In [44026]
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I don't have a problem with no "average Joes" on the BOT.
Jun 13, 2018, 8:10 PM
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College isn't intended to be for the average Joes, and I certainly don't want Clemson to be.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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$$$$$$***
Jun 12, 2018, 8:50 PM
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Orange Blooded [3650]
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Re: I have concerns with Clemson’s increasing enrollment
Jun 12, 2018, 9:17 PM
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I can give you 1.6 trillion reasons that this is a common trend:
http://collegedebt.com
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110%er [5977]
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The states population has exceeded 5,000,000 and will top
Jun 13, 2018, 12:23 AM
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6,000,000 before 2030, and the Greenville metro area is the fastest growing part of the state. The cost to go private would be enormous with no benifit for the universe, the loss of state funded health care and retirement alone would cost the university $100,000,000.00’s. If the university didn’t increase its enrollment, Clemson education would be unattainable for most of the states students, and if tuition continues to increase at its current rate most college degrees will not be worth the cost.
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Legend [16186]
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I love the ever changing Clemson.
Jun 13, 2018, 7:41 AM
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The Clemson I attended from 1968-1973 is not the same Clemson that existed in the decades before I arrived. My Clemson had women students, high rise dorms, ROTC was not required, we were racially integrated, we had political diversity and new buildings were going up around campus. All that was new in '68 and old guys complained about the changes.
The Clemson of today is almost 3 times as large, a potential student must work harder in high school than we did, must score better on standardized test and must come to school better prepared by a long shot than I was in the 1960s. The dorm selection is better, the food is better, the classes are harder and a degree from Clemson is more respected around the country that it was in 1972. The student body is more diverse, a lot higher percentage of new graduates go to immediately to graduate school and all of them are better prepared to compete for work internationally than we were. As far as I can tell, as many of the new graduates are intensely in love with alma mater as was the norm in the 60s and 70s.
The campus is much nicer now than then. A huge building program is underway that will help Clemson and the state of SC and the USA be better in the future than it was in the past.
I'd bet a dollar to a donut that the Clemson in 2040 will be a lot different from the Clemson of 2018 or the Clemson I joined in 1968. I'd bet it will be a lot better than Clemson was when I was a student. I'm glad Clemson keeps changing and that getting better is the norm.
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Orange Blooded [3650]
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Re: I love the ever changing Clemson.
Jun 13, 2018, 9:04 AM
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Agreed
When I attended, out of state was more expensive and that was moons ago but tuitions for all colleges are now out of control and exceeded inflation every year. Something has to be done.
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All-In [44026]
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Thanks for your post. All of those changes are awesome!
Jun 13, 2018, 8:08 PM
[ in reply to I love the ever changing Clemson. ] |
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I'm not yearning for the "good ole days." I believe that Clemson is currently at its best ever, and I want Clemson to continue to strive for excellence. The intent of my post, which might not have been communicated well, was to say this: I love how Clemson's academic reputation is as great as ever, admissions are harder than ever, and the quality of student is as high as ever. I would not want to see Clemson enlarge too rapidly and lose these attributes. My fear is that more seats = less qualified students at Clemson. Yes, Clemson is popular right now with record numbers of applications each year, but what happens if we enlarge too fast? I don't want Clemson having lower academic standards over time, simply to fill more seats. Clemson should remain exclusive, in perception as well as in reality.
In our quest for growth and improvement, we must be careful that we don't lose the unique attributes that contribute to Clemson being uniquely wonderful.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Some of that growth is proposed to be outside of Clemson
Jun 13, 2018, 9:23 AM
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It is to be divided up between Clemson, Greenville and Charleston. For instance, the College of Engineering has the Zucker Family Graduate Education Center that needs to be filled. They are also trying to grow the presence in Greenville.
But overall, a lot of it is geared towards making money. The MBA program is a pure money maker, by the way. Also, starting this year, they have started tiered program. So engineering and nursing majors, for instance, will pay an extra fee. I think the College of Business has been doing this for a while.
In case you're wondering, I serve on an advisory board and have heard some of the plans (only for certain departments. I'm not privvy to the details of the university's plans).
But the City of Clemson, and the campus here is changing (has changed) rapidly. and that's disconcerting to a lot. I think it's the rate of change that makes it feel so shocking, but I would say that some of it is overdue (new additions to campus and such). I have yet to be convince the housing off campus will get filled. I just think the population will shift back from Central to Clemson as students chose to live in newer places with nicer amenities. I could go off on a tangent about the decisions being made around the CITY, but that's another story.
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Legend [16132]
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What is Money Alex***
Jun 13, 2018, 12:43 PM
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