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Topic: I have an eery feeling that...
Replies: 69   Last Post: Apr 24, 2019 9:50 AM by: tigersnake1954®
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I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 9:34 AM
    Reply

...the Calhoun name will be removed from campus starting today. I believe this is probably the right thing to do. Just my feeling on it.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[5]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 9:49 AM
    Reply

Removing his name would be downright wrong, especially from Clemson. After all, wasn't it his land that Clemson sits on? A hundred years from now, they will want to remove Eisenhower's name.

2019 white level member

where is Eisenhower's name on campus***

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:03 AM
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Re: where is Eisenhower's name on campus***

[3]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:00 PM
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Eisenhower Field. As in Frank Eisenhower field. “Death Valley.” I thought everybody knew that. Geez.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:05 AM
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flatfoots, I could be completely wrong so I apologize in advance, but I thought the land was donated by Thomas Greene Clemson.


It was but it was Calhoun land that was donated being

[3]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:08 AM
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that Clemson was his brother in law


Re: It was but it was Calhoun land that was donated being

[7]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:17 AM
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Thomas Clemson was his son-in-law....married his daughter Anna Maria Calhoun Clemson. Thomas Clemson inherited Fort Hill and the land when she passed away.


Re: It was but it was Calhoun land that was donated being


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:03 AM
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you're not even close.

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Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:20 AM
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might want to finish that statement...

donated by Thomas Green Clemson, the husband of Anna Calhoun who was John Calhoun's daughter. Fort Hill was John Calhoun's land, willed to Anna by her mother upon her death.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:44 AM
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And there is your solution...

Name it Anna Calhoun Honors College.

Splits the objections down the middle.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:52 PM
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Not really, considering Thomas Green Clemson and Anna both also owned some slaves after they had Fort Hill. There is no great solution that won't hurt the name of the University and City in the end... Which I'm sure they won't be doing.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:25 PM
    Reply

Shrug. If you say no to Anna, you are anti-feminist right?. It would split the change-name base.

Interestingly enough, there is only one public school named solely after a woman. Mary Washington. George's mother. My opinion is that there needs to be more.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:28 PM
    Reply

Women didn’t own chit. They didn’t even own the right to vote.
I think that’s a name worth pursuing.


Name of the City was already changed from Calhoun to Clemson


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:32 PM
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Can't change it to "Orangeburg"...that is already taken. Can we name it after Fort Hill itself, or is that off limits because slaves once lived there?

2019 white level member

You would like a woman's name


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 7:35 PM
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??


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:57 AM
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Well here's the problem right here. Obviously a bunch of people don't know anything about Clemson.

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Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[3]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:12 AM
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Just wait til they decide to dynamite the Washington Monument., taliban style. That's where we are headed if people keep accepting this kind of mindset.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:12 AM
    Reply

Just wait til they decide to dynamite the Washington Monument., taliban style. That's where we are headed if people keep accepting this kind of mindset.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:22 AM
    Reply

then eventually everything Marin Luther King, Rosa Parks, etc. After all, if there was no slavery, was no segregation...what was it they stood for?? What should they be honored for?? Oh yeah, that history no longer exists. Hmmmm.....


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:33 PM
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Looks like we are going to have to burn everything down and start over. This time we will live in tents. Tents with no names.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 24, 2019 9:20 AM
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You can’t say tents with no name... a horse with no name is already taken!

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Owning another human being is wrong

[3]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:21 AM
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but it was the way things were back then. Doesn't make it right but are we going to tear down everything built in the name of someone who followed the customs and laws of their time but was wrong by our modern standards? If so, how about the way women were treated? Are we going to strike down everything named after a man who didn't vote for the 19th amendment?

How about current day and anything named after Mohamed or any other practicing muslim? I guess it's ok to take a child bride and make your women submit to sharia law. It makes me sick that pretty much the same people that want to take Calhoun's name off buildings, etc are the very same people who are OK with the way muslims treat women TODAY, not more than 100 years ago.


men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:24 AM
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lots of women were against it

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Since only men could vote


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:29 AM
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men did vote for the 19th amendment. What about the men that didn't vote for it - the elected public officials who voted against it? Those men voted to suppress the rights of women. If any buildings, monuments, etc exist in those men's names should they be renamed or torn down?


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:29 AM
    Reply

I really don't know how I feel truly. I am 100% against racism and 100% against the atrocities of our past (slavery, racism, etc.)

This is really a tough one for me. However, I believe if the name really does evoke the memories of slavery and hatred in a lot of peoples minds then it should probably be removed.

Again, I am truly torn but I can see both sides of the fight.


Anti slavery? Bold stance

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:39 AM
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If we’re going to remove the name of everyone that ever owned a slave nothing is going to have a name anymore. If the name was really that big of an issue for people they shouldn’t have come to Clemson.

Which is more likely: they’re actually offended or they feel like they need to protest something and this is an easy target? If you’re going to rename everything just because a few people feign offense, I’m going to open up a sign and plaque making company.

Slavery and racism are an ugly part of America’s (and the world’s for that matter) past. Striking that from history eliminates the ability to see progress and keeps society at large from being able to put modern issues in the proper context.


Removing a name from a building is not equal

[3]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:29 AM
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To "striking it from history". There's a difference between remembering history and honoring it. Naming things after people is usually intended to honor them.

In Iraq they pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein. It seems like many here think they should have left it up for the purpose of "history".


Re: Removing a name from a building is not equal


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:33 AM
    Reply

T_I_P, couldn't have said it any better my friend.


Re: Removing a name from a building is not equal

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:00 PM
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Actually he could have if he knew the whole history... What if I tell you if you check the Clemson.edu history about it, you'll find out Thomas Green Clemson and Anna Calhoun owned slaves and he took one with him to Belgium when he was a diplomat.
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/african-americans.html

Everyone ready for the offended to change the University and City name? Yeah, didn't think so.


Re: Removing a name from a building is not equal

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:53 AM
    Reply

Reasonable point. But if the name on a building affects you enough where it hampers your day to day life (big leap), why did you come to Clemson in the first place?


Re: Removing a name from a building is not equal


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:55 AM
    Reply

Maybe they did not know what the name represented until it was brought to light recently? Its not just students who live and/or work in Clemson.


Re: Removing a name from a building is not equal

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:02 PM
    Reply

So the history of the institution and it’s founders is important enough to be a major issue now but it wasn’t a big enough factor to do 5 minutes of research when you were deciding where to study/work/live?


So John C. Calhoun = Saddam Hussein?

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:29 PM
    Reply

That's quite a leap. And I seriously doubt that John C. Calhoun erected statues of himself...or named buildings to honor himself.

I see your point about "removing history", but come on, man.

2019 white level member

Re: So John C. Calhoun = Saddam Hussein?

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:32 PM
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I agree, probably not a great comparison and I can admit that completely.


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:02 PM
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No blacks today have been a slave. Don't see how it could provoke those thoughts. I think people just need something to complain about. The true nature of people.......


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:14 PM
    Reply

There are plenty of other and more pressing instances of racism in America to spend your time fighting against than this.


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:16 PM
    Reply

I am not leading a fight against it at all. As I said in earlier posts, I am truly conflicted as to what I think should happen.


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:40 PM
    Reply

Not trying to single you out, apologies if that’s how it came across. My comment was about the people vehemently against having these buildings named as they currently are who are expending time and resources choosing this battle when there are ones of far greater consequence that actually impact peoples lives in a meaningful way.


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:42 PM
    Reply

No worries BornATiger, I appreciate your opinion and other point of views. I am not that type of guy to think I am right and everyone else is wrong. I love being educated by others and accept that learning.


Re: men were the only ones that voted for the 19th amendment


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 8:11 PM
    Reply

I wonder if people would be cool with a Hitler building since most people weren’t alive when he was around? I wonder if people in 100 years would be ok with a Bin Laden building since 911 would have been before they were born?

Not saying you’re a confederate flag supporter, but it’s interesting how I most often see that same comment from people in support of the flag. Yet, many of the flag supporters claim to be honoring their ancestors who fought in the war. Why would they care about their ancestors who died long before they were born?


then you think we should tear down the Washington


Posted: Apr 24, 2019 8:53 AM
    Reply

monument


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:28 AM
    Reply

"There is no king who has not had a slave among his ancestors and no slave who has not had a king among his."

---------Helen Keller

As ugly as it is, it's part of history.

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Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:31 AM
    Reply

agree and it'll never be erased from history.

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Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 10:37 AM
    Reply

I think this decision would be easier to make if we knew the circumstances behind changing the name to Calhoun honors college in 1981. The thing I have come to be wary of is when buildings and institutions get renamed. I can think of two instances in our state where the reasoning was faulty imo. This one is harder to gauge though.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 2:01 PM
    Reply

"What?????"

- Moses


Yeah, let's bury the past so we can repeat it in the future***

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:02 AM
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Maybe you should go read the Clemson will.***

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:16 AM
    Reply




Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:20 AM
    Reply

We can't change the past, we learn from the past and move on. If we can't move on to the future we become stagnant, and die. Would it not be better to forgive rather than demolish?

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Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:30 AM
    Reply

I do understand we can't change the past. However, certain events and names do bring back horrific memories. Slavery is such an atrocity. Would Germany consider leaving Hitler's name on buildings because you cant change the past in Germany?


Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[4]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:35 AM
    Reply

You're comparing a plantation owner to a man who lead a genocide against a whole continent. If people are so wrapped up into the history of Clemson then why come here? As a current student I can assure the names of the buildings on campus matter to maybe 5% of the student body. The 5% are the ones pushing for the change.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 11:41 AM
    Reply

Well does it matter to past graduates and the families of students? How about the community and those that live in Clemson? How about workers at the University? A slave owner is just as bad as a dictator. Both are horrible people. History may not be able to be erased, but why honor it?


People really need to read up on some history

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:08 PM
    Reply

A slave owner in most cases was NOT just as bad as a dictator. Read about what Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and current day people like Kim Jong Un actually did and do today. Slavery was obviously very wrong, but it was a widespread part of the culture 150 years ago. In my opinion it still exists today with some of the terrible migrant worker conditions in the country but you don’t see millennials and other buttercups all up in arms about that. Both major political parties seem ok with it too as they continue to do nothing about immigration. Look at the people driving this name/statue movement. It’s not mostly the minority students, family members, community members, or minority workers that you speak of. A lot of it is lily white sjw’s like the Clemson professor who wrote the op-Ed and who feel like they need a cause and their 15 mins of fame. It is just the trendy cause of today and it has gotten out of control. Removing the name from a university of a guy who was instrumental in founding that university is just plain wrong. If people are so offended that they just can’t function in life then they are free to choose another option.


Re: People really need to read up on some history


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:12 PM
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Horrible people are horrible people no matter how they persecute people. Whether a dictator or a slave owner, evil is evil.


Re: People really need to read up on some history

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:32 PM
    Reply

Well, then let’s just re-name everything with the names Washington, Jefferson, half of the cities and counties throughout the US, especially the South, because they’re named after a large number of plantation owners and affluent people who owned slaves, who you equate with Hitler. Rip up the Constitution and Declaration of Independence too, it’s best to forget those names. Humans are humans and not are not perfect. I don’t believe anyone would admire them for being slave owners, but it’s a part of our history and they contributed greatly to what makes us who we are. Good and bad. Mad men like Hitler and Stalin murdered, tortured, and imprisoned millions of people. You are severely misguided and misinformed.


Re: People really need to read up on some history


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:35 PM
    Reply

So, you are saying slave owners didn't murder, imprison and torture people? I agree I was off base comparing him to Hitler, but you cannot make me believe that slavery was not imprisonment and torture.


Re: People really need to read up on some history


Posted: Apr 24, 2019 9:10 AM
    Reply

Not defending slavery but many slaves were treated well by their owners. Not everyone was tortured.

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By your argument, Clemson University was championed by

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:35 PM
    Reply

and created by "horrible people", so maybe we should just bulldoze the whole campus and shut the university's doors? Is not the whole university the seed of the "horrible" fruit? Why settle for a symbol, or a name?

2019 white level member

Re: By your argument, Clemson University was championed by


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:40 PM
    Reply

It is not an argument. As I have said multiple times in this thread, I am truly conflicted about the name and what should be done. I have not said nor will I say that any of you that may have differing opinions is wrong. Everyone has a voice and I am not hear to say you're wrong or I am right. He11, I could easily be way off base. As I said, the comparison to Hitler was not a good comparison at all. At no point, have I said that anyone that disagrees with me is wrong. I am truly interested in hearing the different points of view and seeing the information. I am not so full of myself that my mind couldn't be changed or altered.


Re: By your argument, Clemson University was championed by


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:17 PM
    Reply

Pssttt...he has a point. Thomas Green CLEMSON and and Calhoun were slave owners for a while.
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/african-americans.html

You do get where this is going, right?


Gosh, there are a lot of puppies that will need new names

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:39 PM
    Reply

I see people asking for suggestions for "Clemson puppy" names, and Tillman and Calhoun are always near the top of the list. Funny how this "honoring evil" objection never comes up in those situations.

2019 white level member

That makes no sense

[2]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 12:44 PM
    Reply

That’s like saying the kid that shoplifts candy from the convenience store is the same as a serial killer. That’s why we have misdemeanors and felonies. Understand that I think slavery was terribly wrong and a regrettable part of our history. However there was also a lot more to it than the oversimplified version being presented by these name and statue crusaders. Also these prominent leaders of that era were not just defined by that one issue. Again, for many of them it was just the society they lived in. They also did a lot of good including founding universities and leading government.

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/03/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/facts-about-slavery/


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 24, 2019 9:50 AM
    Reply

We are all slaves, if you work for somebody else or if you owe someone. We are slaves to our national debt that the politicians put on us. I have no problem with the past and letting it go and forgiving and forgetting something I don’t control. It is what it is. I don’t like all the mlk stuff either or black this or black tv, but that is totally acceptable. Also, on applications are you white, red green blue black.

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When will the PC snowflakes demand we change the name of

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:24 PM
    Reply

our capital from Washington, DC?

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg


Washington AND Columbus, in a single place name


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 2:11 PM
    Reply

How was this not changed years ago? Hey, come to think of it, our state capital was also named after Columbus.

2019 white level member

Re: I have an eery feeling that...

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:32 PM
    Reply

You can't go back and apologize for everything that happened in the past. It was a different world, we see it today, they saw it then. Don't let newbies who weren't there change everything about history, as it it didn't happened. This is total B> S>


Tillman maybe, but I doubt Calhoun***

[1]
Posted: Apr 23, 2019 1:34 PM
    Reply




Re: Tillman maybe, but I doubt Calhoun***


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 7:58 PM
    Reply

According to my 23 and me test results, I’m .01% Ashkenazi Jew. I’m offended by everyone and everything now... I’m renaming it all!


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 8:03 PM
    Reply

To be consistent, let's rename Yale University, Fannueil Hall in Boston, take down the Washington and Jefferson memorials,etc.


Re: I have an eery feeling that...


Posted: Apr 23, 2019 8:05 PM
    Reply

I don’t feel strongly either way about this, but laugh at the “erasing history” people. I kept hearing the same comments about the confederate flag being taken from the state house.

They took the flag down and last I checked the flag and the civil war are still covered in history books, and they are both displayed in the State Museum.

Funny how the Germans took down any mention of Hitler and we still all somehow know about Hitler 75 years later. It’s almost as if people can learn about history somewhere other than a statue, flag, or building name.


Instead of worrying about names of buildings why don't...

[1]
Posted: Apr 24, 2019 9:14 AM
    Reply

these offended people do something about the slavery that still exists in the world today. Especially in Africa where they enslave and sell their own people of the same color. That would make more sense than changing the name of building or tearing down a monument.

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