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Topic: How would it have looked if
Replies: 24   Last Post: Feb 20, 2019 2:35 PM by: ClemsonGville
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Replies: 24  

How would it have looked if


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:06 AM
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the football facilities were so bad that right in the middle of Dabo's tenure the football team had to play a season away from Death Valley?
Or if in the middle of OPS tenure the basketball team had to play a season away from Littlejohn?
How may that have impacted their recruiting and their progress?


Re: How would it have looked if

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:10 AM
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I’m not sure what it would have looked like because Dabo had a vision and direction as a head coach and the school invested.

As a WR coach and early in his tenure we significantly lacked top end facilities. He got 5 star CJ Spiller to commit and figured out how to use his talents. Followed that up with a Tajh Boyd and the rest is history. Don’t act like Dabo walked into the best of everything. It took him a while to build it... close to a decade.

Don’t worry, I’m sure basketball will be there soon. We are approaching a decade and so far a ton of progress has been made....?


This kind of crap has to stop.

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 10:55 AM
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Yes, Dabo had a vision for the program - a great one. Brad does too. The difference is that the administration jumped over backwards to give Dabo what he wanted and needed, whereas they have not done that for Brad. That isn't because Brad can't be convincing or inspiring, but because our administration clearly prioritizes football because that's our bread and butter.

What if Dabo had to meet with donors to raise money himself for the new football facilities? How might that have impacted his ability to coach and recruit? Would he even have been able to raise the necessary funds?

What if Dabo hadn't gotten the assistant coach budget increased when he did? Do you really think we would have made the playoffs four years in a row, and have two national championships?

Dabo inherited a program that had not fulfilled its potential, but let's not forget that we had a top 10 recruiting class and were picked #9 in the nation to start the very season he took over. C.J. Spiller was a great player, but I would argue that Dabo didn't use his talents that well, considering the fact that we didn't even win one ACC Championship with him.

Keep living in your fantasy land where Dabo is amazing and has created all of this by himself, and Brad has had the same advantages and didn't deliver.

2019 white level member

Revisionist history Judge

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:00 PM
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Dabo deferred pay raises to pay assistants, didnt get the indoor facility until 2015, the football complex until 2016. What he did was begin to win big and recruit at an extremely high level, with his job security perilous.

Far different challenge in basketball, but Dabo wasn't handed anything. He established himself and brand, then had the clout to take it to another level


It's not revisionist history at all.


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:57 PM
    Reply

Dabo had the recently completed WEZ, phases I and II, when he was hired. And although those facilities weren't completed until 2015 and 2016, the process of planning and designing them was underway long before. That alone is worth a lot to show that the athletic department supports the program, which is helpful for team morale and recruiting.

I'm not taking anything away from Dabo. He's a great coach and an even better man. His vision for and leadership of our football program are outstanding. But this notion that he inherited an awful situation and bootstrapped things on his own to create an elite football program fails to consider the advantages he had at a football school with a supportive administration and fan base.

Brad has no such advantages. People saying that we "need a basketball Dabo" need to realize that success in a sport isn't just based on the coach, but on a collective effort toward mutual goals. We didn't have that for baseketball until 2-3 years ago (assuming we have it at all).

FYI, Brad deferred pay raises to get increased salaries for assistants too (this was part of what was discussed in the spring 2017 meeting between Brad and Dan Radakovich).

2019 white level member

Re: I agree football at Clemson has more advantages than


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:27 PM
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Basketball, but you are seriously down playing the impact Dabo has had on our success. You act like he was handed everything he needed the day he took the job. Clemson was not a winning program. It's why Bowden was fired. Remember, before Dabo took over Clemson had not won 10 games in a season or a won conference championship in 20 years.


Hey bud...you can take away the what-ifs...


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:35 PM
    Reply

Dabo DID travel around to meet with big donors, asking them for money for the new facilities.

Dabo CREATED an assistant coach budget increase by taking it away from his own salary. Do you think Brad needs 2.5 Million to buy groceries? Or perhaps could he invest some of that back into the program like Dabo did?

2019 white level member

You need to know that Brad revised his contract


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:59 PM
    Reply

in 2017 to allow for a higher assistant coach budget, in addition to agreeing to a reduced buyout. He's made a lot of sacrifices, just as Dabo has. I know it doesn't jive with your perception of him, but it's true.

2019 white level member

Facilities ARE NOT the reason we dont

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:37 PM
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look good to make the tournament in year 9...with a senior laden team.

Just stop already.


Have you ever considered


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:04 PM
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the fact that not getting upgraded facilities until year 7 might affect recruiting? And that we are still feeling the effects of that two years later?

Facilities aren't a magic wand. They don't make recruiting a piece of cake, especially when plenty of other programs have at least as good, if not better facilities. They are one part of the puzzle.

I've never said that Brad can't improve in his recruiting. In fact, he must. But it is oversimplifying things greatly to act like recruiting only requires a slick car salesman type to convince recruits to play for your school. We have never recruited consistently well at Clemson when it comes to basketball. Not Rick Barnes, not Oliver Purnell, and not anyone else. Not even Cliff Ellis or Tates Locke, both of whom got us on NCAA probation.

Have you also ever considered the fact that our main problem at Clemson over the past 100+ years isn't simply having the wrong coach, but rather, much more significant problems?

2019 white level member

Have you ever considered


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:19 PM
    Reply

A good coach could have made the tournament more than twice (likely) in 9 years, regardless of facilities? And its not like we were chopped liver in regards to facilities.

There are no excuses.


After losing OP's players

[2]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:17 AM
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Brownell was 13-18 three years into his tenure and pretty much a .500 coach after that. I don't think one season out of nine at an arena that's 30 mins away and actually more accessible to a lot of fans is really much of a crutch.

In contrast, Dabo had some short-term setbacks his first few seasons, but has recruited and steadily promoted his program each year since. It is built on a solid foundation and almost on automatic pilot at this point. Our basketball direction seems much like our offense in games...we just kinda make it up as we go.


Re: After losing OP's players

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:32 AM
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Yes, you are right, after losing Milton Jennings, Brian Narcisse, Catalin Baicu and Devin Booker....


Whatever you wanna say

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:42 AM
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CBB only broke 20 wins one time in the next 6 seasons.


NINE YEARS


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:39 PM
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Look, I hope we can pull out a miracle and make the tourney and even a run, but at 9 years in, NINE YEARS, there are ZERO excuses for not being better than what we've seen.


Re: After losing OP's players

[1]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:32 AM
    Reply

Can we take BB’s salary and give it to Dabo to coach basketball in his spare time? I guarantee he could turn us into a basketball power. The man has a life plan that translates to success in any endeavor he takes on. Spending 1/4th his time coaching basketball probably gets us to more success than we currently are having.


If you truly view these two situations in such simplistic


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 11:02 AM
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terms then I don't know what to tell you.

The success or failure of a program in this day and age is due to so much more than just the coach.

2019 white level member

Wrong.The possible failure of Brad


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:42 PM
    Reply

has nothing do with anything other than his ability to make it happen.

Please stop with the excuses. Barring a miracle run down the finish, its time to move on.


Wrong. You don't understand.


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:09 PM
    Reply

No one is making excuses for Coach Brownell. The wins and losses are ultimately on him, and he hasn't made enough NCAA Tournaments in his 8 full seasons here. If he doesn't make it this year, that will be very disappointing.

His main problem is recruiting, not coaching. He's a great coach, he just needs better players. He isn't a bad recruiter, but not a great one either. Like any coach at Clemson, I believe he deserves to have as few disadvantages, and as many advantages, in his favor as possible. Clemson doesn't have a very good basketball history, and it isn't located in a state with much basketball talent. But it does have an opportunity, playing in the ACC, to attract better basketball players. Part of attracting players to Clemson is the coach, his style of play, and his success getting players to the NBA. But it's also about making sure that we have the facilities, assistant coaches, staff, fan support, etc. to make Clemson basketball attractive rather than just a sport to play between the end of football season and the start of spring football practice.

Like it or not, the perception is that Clemson doesn't care about basketball. Overcoming that reputation is going to be difficult. Simply changing coaches won't be enough.

2019 white level member

Wrong.The possible failure of Brad


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 2:35 PM
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Has nothing to do with any of the excuses youve come up with from a historical standpoint.

If he doesnt succeed then its fully on him. Period.


OP had to play a season in Anderson at the


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 1:28 AM
    Reply

Civic center.


It wasn't a season, it was just the Nov and Dec games


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 11:04 AM
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Littlejohn reopened for our first ACC game against Duke that January.

Besides, the two situations aren't even comparable.

2019 white level member

Re: How would it have looked if

[2]
Posted: Feb 20, 2019 6:43 AM
    Reply

When Dabo took over, there was a ton of work that needed to be done in DV, and the recruiting and the winning started before an awful lot of work began or was even close to being finished, and the comparison of the two coaches winning percentage ain't even CLOSE!!! I don't think that any of Tiger nation ever expected Brad to win a BB National Championship in 8 years. We did though expect some tpe of consistency of playing in the NCAA tournament, and Brad did that once with another coaches players, and once with his players last year, and then right back to the same as before this year or worse!!! And I have with consistency beat the Brad Brownell drum bc I truly hoped that he could/would be successful with our BB program. Brad Brownell is an absolutely a great person with a great character, but that wasn't enough to be successful with our BB program, and that saddens me to the core bc I truly wanted him to succeed as our BB HC, and as sad as it is, that's not going to happen!!!

Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®

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Re: How would it have looked if


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 8:27 AM
    Reply

I understand what you're saying but it's not fair to compare anyone to Dabo .


Nor is it fair to compare any program at Clemson


Posted: Feb 20, 2019 11:05 AM
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to our football program.

2019 white level member

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