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Team Captain [489]
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How many recruits do you think we would lose if Clemson had
Aug 26, 2012, 10:04 PM
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a really bad season?
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Starter [363]
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Re: How many recruits do you think we would lose if Clemson had
Aug 26, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Who knows except the recruits? My best guess would be one or two at the most, After our 6-7 season we brought in a fantastic class that had Sammy Watkins and loads of other talented freshman, I think people get too caught up in a "good" or "bad" season.
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Rock Defender [53]
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According to the experts & conventional wisdom recruiting
Aug 26, 2012, 11:10 PM
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lags a year behind, be it a good or bad season. That has become even more true recently as kids have started committing so much earlier. The season hasn't even started yet, but our class for 2013 is almost full. A bad season in 2012 won't effect the 2013 class much, but could have a major impact on the 2014 class.
My parents love Dabo and my dad has defended Dabo in our past conversations. Today, however, my dad said Dabo better make some significant progress the next two years or he is in trouble. He has seen the 6-7 season followed by a bipolar/highly inconsistent season last year, esp with the 4 beat downs punctuated by the Orange Bowl debacle.
Folks on here don't like admitting it, but Dabo took over a program ready to explode. The missing ingredient was coaching. So far Dabo hasn't proven he deserved the job. I think we are headed in the right direction, but that's been true since TB got here. We've been under achieving for yearssss. We are loaded talent-wise and Dabo has shuffled the staff yet again and we're only entering his 4th season.
No matter what happens this year, Dabo's job is safe, but another so so season and loss to USC will have him on a very hot seat in 2013. That is particularly true with Wilkins bringing a new attitude to the board and a new AD. If we don't have a special season in 2014 Dabo is in trouble. Serious trouble.
Five years, all this talent, the much improved facilities, and the huge money now available for staff will make it very hard for Dabo and Dabo supporters to make anything but excuses. Even Dabo pumpers said give him 5 years, let him recruit his players, hire his staff, insert his system, blah blah blah. History has proven that is nonsense and BS, but that's been their mantra. So 2014 better be special because it will be year five. Minus a great 2014, Dabo supporters will be on very thin ice.
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CU Guru [1123]
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Re: According to the experts & conventional wisdom recruiting
Aug 26, 2012, 11:30 PM
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You realize after any coach is fired it takes a few years to get rolling again, right?
You realize Dabo won the ACC title and brought us to a BCS last year, right?
You realize that ACC title was the first since 1991, right?
So yes, we are about to explode. Largely due to the job that Dabo has done. Please, give it a rest, we have heard your song plenty of times before.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Patently false. We sucked for almost all of the 70s, Pell
Aug 26, 2012, 11:55 PM
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came in and was 11-1 his 2nd year. Ford won the NC his 3rd year. Meyer won the NC at Florida his 2nd year, Saban won the NC his 2nd year, Spurrier won the ACC in only his 3rd year at Duke, and won the SEC his 2nd season after Florida had been 26-21 the four seasons before he got there. Then he went 9-2 & 10-2.
Dabo didn't step into a rebuilding situation. Good coaches make an immediate impact and make a significant impact the 2nd & 3rd season.
Tommy West was 31-28 at Clemson, 3-8 his last year. TB came in and his 2nd year we were 9-3 and ranked in the top 20.
You are trying to use a BS excuse people use to buy mediocre coaches more time.
FSU had 2 coaches in 5 years before Bobby Bowden. They were 19-37 the 5 years before Bowden. His 2nd year FSU was 10-2.
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110%er [6692]
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What about Spurrier at USuCk?
Aug 27, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Lou Holtz at USuCk?
Brian Kelly at ND?
Rich Rod at Michigan?
Just because a coach is good at one school doesn't mean he will be at another.
And also, Dabo has took us to two ACCCG's and TB had....ZERO.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Every one of your examples can be easily slammed. Very few
Aug 27, 2012, 12:05 AM
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coaches do exceptionally well if they haven't already made a huge impact in the first 3 to 5 years. And those exceptions are typically at a program with not a lot of success and a guy is given time to build a program. That is not the issue at Clemson. Typically, no major success within 3 to 5 years, make a change cause you're wasting time.
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Team Captain [489]
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but we have had major success in only 3 yrs except for USuCk
Aug 27, 2012, 12:11 AM
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and they act like they have won the NC for beating us 3 yrs in a row, I am very proud and excited for the road we're heading down, Carolina is still Carolina and we'll catch back up
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Rock Defender [53]
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OMG! I want what you are smoking. We have not had major
Aug 27, 2012, 12:29 AM
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success, not even close. We have grossly under achieved in a pathetically weak conference. We won an ACC title while getting blown out 4x including 3 in a row to USC and the underdog in the OB. The ONLY reason we won the ACC is thanks to VT knocking of GT to win that division. We didn't even finish in the top 20. The season before was a losing season @ 6-7. The year before that we had blowouts & bad loses and NO top 20 finish.
You don't reshuffle your staff after "major success" unless your staff is being poached by other programs. Nobody is poaching our coaches, we're firing them cause they suck!!
Your idea of "major success" is mediocrity to most rational observers.
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Team Captain [489]
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your right when I refer to major success I am thinking of
Aug 27, 2012, 12:33 AM
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winning an ACC championship and going to a BCS bowl, I agree there is alot room to improve but I think with our coaching staff and the recruits we are getting that should not be a problem... if we dont then we should find somebody else that can, but I think we're heading in the right direction
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Rock Defender [53]
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We won a weak ACC title that we were lucky to play for and
Aug 27, 2012, 12:38 AM
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got the perfect match up in the ACCCG. Then we were given the worst bowl beating in history.
I think we are going in the right direction, but we're going mighty slow and still grossly under achieving.
Dabo still has a LOT to prove!!
Lose to USC again this year and the people wanting his rear are going to grow in numbers and get LOUD!!
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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You say weak but FACTS say we beat more ranked teams than
Aug 27, 2012, 1:49 AM
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any other Clemson team in history. Get over yourself and go away!
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Rock Defender [53]
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lol stats are meaningles. we only beat 3 ranked teams not 4
Aug 27, 2012, 3:30 PM
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We beat VT twice. So we beat 3 teams and won 4 games. Big difference.
There was no top 25 until 1989, before that the AP and other polls only ranked the top 20.
In the final AP poll we were 22, VT 21, FSU 23. Auburn wasn't ranked. Therefore, we did not beat anyone ranked in the final top 20 and only beat two teams that finished in the top 25.
We have far better seasons than that in our past.
For example, the 1981 season, we finished number 1, Georgia 6, UNC 9, Nebraska 11. And all 3 were ranked in the top 10 when we beat them. Nebraska should have finished in the top 10.
http://www.collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1981
Sooner or later you kool aid drinkers will realize I deal in facts, not rhetoric and BS.
Stats are for losers.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Geeze, you'll spin anything won't you?
Aug 27, 2012, 4:35 PM
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Once again, you're OPINION on those rankings being meaningless are your opinion. The FACT is we've never won 4 games over ranked teams in the history of our program and we did last year. 3 of those teams were ranked at the end of the year which would've tied the most wins over ranked teams in a season. I'm failing to see how we fluked out b/c of what you think is a weak schedule. If last year's schedule was weak then that should mean we've played a weak schedule every year of our existence. Neither of those are true and we played a good schedule and deserved our conference title and it wasn't a fluke.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Its not spin, you are spinning. How many other seasons did
Aug 27, 2012, 5:38 PM
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we play 14 games and play the same team twice?
TWO
2009 and 2011
In 2009 we played in the ACCCG and a bowl game and lost to GT 2x. Last year we played in the ACCCG and a bowl and beat VT 2x.
You are trying to pump the 2010 team as being this rare unique success based on that stat, but the reality is, 2010 was not a great year and that stat is more a product of the schedule and how the season unfolded. Not because it was a great or special team/season.
How can you beat 4 top 25 teams and not even finish in the top 20? Last year was anything but special. If we hadn't had a few breaks and won the ACC people would have been very disappointed in last year. VT finished 21 and 11-3 but they were mediocre at best. We stomped them twice. So please, stop insulting the intelligence of people smart enough to see past weak stats. We aren't drinking the kool aid.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Fact is Dabo has won the ACC and another division in 3
Aug 27, 2012, 7:36 PM
[ in reply to Geeze, you'll spin anything won't you? ] |
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years and was national coach of the year. Stick that fact up your butt coot
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110%er [6577]
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not trying to meddle here... but, why would a coot
Aug 28, 2012, 9:33 AM
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be so upset about us not playing to the potential we have year in and year out... AND would want Dabo gone if we don't beat SCAR this year? Seems to me a Coot would want Dabo to stay.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: We won a weak ACC title that we were lucky to play for and
Aug 27, 2012, 7:34 PM
[ in reply to We won a weak ACC title that we were lucky to play for and ] |
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You have an excuse for everything huh coot? Every team outside of the BCS woulda taken our place in a hurry. It's all about winning conference championships. Quit arguing with this clown, Dabo can't do anything right to hear this clown. We could go undefeated and he'd still bit*h.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Team Captain [489]
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Rock Defender [53]
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We had just given TB a new contract and huge buyout. You
Aug 26, 2012, 11:57 PM
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let us play mediocre this year, or have more blowouts, esp if we lose to USC again and Dabo's ### will be hot going into 2013.
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Amateur [33]
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Re: According to the experts & conventional wisdom recruiting
Aug 27, 2012, 1:34 AM
[ in reply to According to the experts & conventional wisdom recruiting ] |
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A little off topic, but depth and development on the offensive line has been our biggest recruiting shortfall for the past decade or more.
I think Dabo needs to focus on bringing in more linemen, especially on offense. He is a great recruiter, and I believe he can do it. We have a ton of talent at skill positions, but we need the big guys to protect the QB and give us a solid consistent push in short yardage situations.
O-line is one of the hardest positions to evaluate out of high school, so we need to bring in 3 or 4 a year to guarantee that some of them will develop, even if some are 2 stars or less due to size.
Underweight athletic recruits who aren't heavily recruited could be a good fit for our offense if they have the frame to put on good weight without losing their quickness. Our best tackle last year was Phillip Price, originally a preferred walk-on tight end.
Most need to redshirt and have a year or two to gain strength and get some game experience before they are ready to start. This will also allow the coaching staff to better evaluate them at the college level.
Hopefully Caldwell has improved the line this year, as last season they was learning a completely new system.
Bringing in more o-linemen will also give us reliable depth both to counter injuries and allow us to sub in backups regularly with the pace of our offense. If we want to run 80+ plays a game we can't rely on the starters all game, or they will get gassed as bad as the other teams defense. The size required to play o-line doesn't mesh with playing that many snaps, even with them being conditioned for it.
Even though I've heard positive things about Shatley, we shouldn't have to take experienced players from a shallow d-line to make ends meet for the o-line.
I think this is the key for us to move up another level to consistently play(and win) BCS games.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I agree 100%. We haven't had a truly good OL since the early
Aug 27, 2012, 3:51 PM
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90s, and those were Ford's recruits. I keep telling the kool aid drinkers that we are not going to have a truly good team until we address our OL issues. I've posted it many times. Unfortunately we look like USC back in the 80s and early 90s - great skill players, mediocre OL.
My god, imagine CJ, Davis, and Ellington running behind the OL we had for TA, Flowers, Flagler, et al. They would have put up insane numbers and been right in the Heisman mix. CJ would have won it and Ellington would be a favorite.
TB and Dabo like this finesse spread crap. Yet Bama is winning championships and USC is kicking our butt playing good ole fashioned smash mouth football. The "experts" on TNET love to say "You can't win today with Danny Ford football". Clearly they are in denial. They defend whatever offense their irrational man crush HC is running. Ford himself knew we could be better by being more balanced, which is why he went out and got the Rico Brogna, who was the number 1 QB recruit in the country. Unfortunately, Brogna chose baseball and Lennon ran off Ford.
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/JuvHXwiQbEKzusKyQDcVZw/connecticut--take-me-out-to-thefootball-game.htm
While most people know him as a baseball player who amassed nearly 3000 Major League at bats and 800 hits before his career was cut short by injuries and spinal arthritis, Brogna was first and foremost a football guy growing up in Connecticut. His father, Joe, was a long time coach at the Taft School in Watertown. As a senior quarterback at Watertown High in 1987, Rico Brogna was named the state’s Gatorade Player of the Year, and gained third-team All-American honors.
Then when the Detroit Tigers selected him in the first round (26th overall) of the 1988 amateur draft, Brogna faced an agonizing choice. It wasn’t whether to sign professionally as a high school senior or move onto a career in college baseball. It was whether to sign with the Tigers for $100,000 – which was good signing money at the time – or accept a scholarship to be the quarterback at Clemson University.
“It was a very difficult decision,” Brogna recalled.
“Football was my love. I drew a lot of the attention I got in baseball because of my football background. Clemson was a Top 10 team at the time and had even been No. 1 at least once. They needed a quarterback and I didn’t even think of myself as a first-round draft pick in baseball. I already had my dorm at Clemson and my playbook.”
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Amateur [33]
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Re: I agree 100%. We haven't had a truly good OL since the early
Aug 27, 2012, 7:18 PM
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I like the offense we are running, we just need more depth at offensive line to run the ball like Morris wants to. It sounds like Morris would love to run the ball up the middle while staying with the HUNH. It keeps the defense honest, which allows our talented receivers to make more big plays. I think we need a big power back in the mix who can fight for tough yards and catch the ball out of the backfield.
Auburn won a national championship with this system. I'll admit Cam Newton had a lot to do with that, but I have faith in Boyd and we have much better receivers. Boyd's Jekyll and Hyde season last seemed to coincide with Phillip Price's injury. If he isn't running for his life he's a ### good quarterback, any QB is gonna look bad if he is pressured that heavily every play.
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Amateur [33]
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Re: I agree 100%. We haven't had a truly good OL since the early
Aug 27, 2012, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to I agree 100%. We haven't had a truly good OL since the early ] |
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I like the offense we are running, we just need more depth at offensive line to run the ball like Morris wants to. It sounds like Morris would love to run the ball up the middle while staying with the HUNH. It keeps the defense honest, which allows our talented receivers to make more big plays. I think we need a big power back in the mix who can fight for tough yards and catch the ball out of the backfield.
Auburn won a national championship with this system. I'll admit Cam Newton had a lot to do with that, but I have faith in Boyd and we have much better receivers. Boyd's Jekyll and Hyde season last seemed to coincide with Phillip Price's injury. If he isn't running for his life he's a ### good quarterback, any QB is gonna look bad if he is pressured that heavily every play.
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Amateur [33]
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Re: I agree 100%. We haven't had a truly good OL since the early
Aug 27, 2012, 7:20 PM
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Sorry for the double post. Won't let me delete it.
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Legend [16227]
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I get the feeling that the OL is not going to be a weakness
Aug 28, 2012, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: According to the experts & conventional wisdom recruiting ] |
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this season. A couple of off-seasons chock full of those redshirt frosh and soph you mentioned, with Morris and Caldwell calling the practice and preparation, and they should at least pull their weight out of the shoot and only get better as the season progresses.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Asst Coach [702]
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None,every recruit thinks they will make that difference of
Aug 26, 2012, 10:32 PM
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winning more games.
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Team Captain [489]
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That's the kind of players I want playing for Clemson***
Aug 26, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How many recruits do you think we would lose if Clemson had
Aug 26, 2012, 11:32 PM
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WVU just hung SEVENTY on us. That pretty much should have been a barometer of sorts regarding recruiting. Didn't seem to affect it at all IMO. The #1 recruit committed to us, so recruits must look at different things. I know CLEMSON is a fantastic place to get to spend 4 years of your life, but I'm not a recruit.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Again the class was already set. Recruiting lags a year
Aug 26, 2012, 11:59 PM
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after a good or bad season.
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110%er [6692]
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Well the 6-7 season led to a pretty good class coming in
Aug 28, 2012, 3:24 PM
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this past year and WVU destroyed us but we have the #1 recruit on board right now along with some other solid d-line recruits.
I guess I'm saying you can criticize Dabo on some things, but the facts are he can recruit and he did win an ACC Championship.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Imagine what a really good season would do.***
Aug 26, 2012, 11:37 PM
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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Re: Imagine what a really good season would do.***
Aug 26, 2012, 11:42 PM
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Oddly enough bad seasons can actually benefit recruiting. A lot of the highly ranked kids see it as a way to quick playing time as a starter if their position is weak already.
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Legend [17522]
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Contingency Question ... contingency answers.
Aug 26, 2012, 11:58 PM
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1) Why would we have bad season? Phil Steele & Vegas have us 11-1. And our coordinators are no kidding bad a$$.
2) No ... a bad season would only help recruiting. On T-Net and over the rainbow where only thinks happy thoughts are allowed.
3) Seriously don't sweat what you can't control. The WVA game was the ultimate humiliation for Clemson and Nkemdiche and others verbally committed for immediate playing time.
4) Our Clemson campus is beautiful especially compared to the dog tracks at Alabama, LSU and SC.
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110%er [5977]
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First ten win season and first ACC title in over 20 years
Aug 27, 2012, 12:14 AM
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and all you can talk about is what if this or what if that in a negative way? When Clemson hired Coach Swinney they knew what they had a young inexperinced coach, well it is going to take him time to grow into the job. I for one think he is doing a great job now, did he make some mistakes early yes. I think Clemson is getting ready to be rolling over the next several years. Not sure why you are even thinking about what if he has a bad seasnon guess some of you alway look for the negative in everything you do.
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Team Captain [489]
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I was just wondering what the impact on recruiting would be
Aug 27, 2012, 12:18 AM
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in no way am I looking on this season in a negative way, I have extremely high hopes for this season (hopefully not too high) but thanks for your input and in no way did you answer my question
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Rock Defender [53]
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This is TNET, if you aren't pumping sunshine you are seen as
Aug 27, 2012, 12:33 AM
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the grim reaper. Debbie Downer. Mr. Negativity. TNET is like a Prozac convention.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Programs serious about football don't hire inexperienced
Aug 27, 2012, 12:32 AM
[ in reply to First ten win season and first ACC title in over 20 years ] |
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coaches and give them on the job training. Especially not when the program was already under achieving and ready to break out. Where do you folks get this nonsense?
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Amateur [33]
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Re: Programs serious about football don't hire inexperienced
Aug 27, 2012, 2:15 AM
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The progression I have seen is that Dabo is moving towards a team manager, motivator, and recruiter, and giving his coordinators more control over the play calling. I wasn't enthralled with the hire at first either when he was basically interfering with the offensive play calling when his offensive philosophy conflicted with Napier's.
I feel he is learning quickly to focus on his strengths, and he and Chad seem more on the same page offensively. He made a great hire in Chad, and hopefully Venables hire will work out the same way, even though we have to be realistic that our offense is going to hurt our defensive statistics with just about any coach.
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Rock Defender [53]
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The offense would not be a liability is we'd develop an OL.
Aug 27, 2012, 4:00 PM
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Our problems are (1) the inability to sustain drives because we can't convert 3rd & short; and (2) we have to settle for wayyyy too many FGs because we bog down inside the 20. It's mind boggling how often we have 1st and goal from the 10 or closer and settle for FGs.
I'm not sold on Dabo's "motivation" skills. We are losing and getting blown out by inferior teams. Against GT and WVu we flat quit after 1 bad play in the 1st half. Both games were close until then, then the rout was on. We don't play with physical nor mental toughness.
I've never said Dabo "can't" do it, but I don't think he will. He still has a lot to prove.
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Associate AD [810]
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LR - regarding the team quitting....
Aug 27, 2012, 10:57 PM
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I have occassionally thought Dabo may be too much of a sunshine pumper himself to the players. If a player believes he has "greatness" in him that is wonderful, but if the player believes it to a point that he does not expect to see adversity, then that is a problem when the inevitable adversity shows up.
It's like a raising a child who has nothing but unrealistic thoughts about himself and when the kid finally heads out into the real world they can be unprepared for the challenges of life.
Just a thought, but what else explains some of these 2nd half collapses?
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: LR - regarding the team quitting....
Aug 27, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Just off the top of my head....
How about lack of quality depth????
Or is that too realistic an answer??
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Associate AD [810]
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Regarding depth....
Aug 27, 2012, 11:10 PM
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Lack of quality depth doesn't make much sense given the recruiting class rankings of recent years.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: Regarding depth....
Aug 27, 2012, 11:12 PM
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whatever helps you get to sleep at night.
I just gave you a realistic answer to a relatively lowbrow question
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Orange Blooded [2481]
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Oh geez
Aug 27, 2012, 5:40 PM
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are the Coots holding U at gun point?
#21
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Orange Blooded [2584]
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Re: How many recruits do you think we would lose if Clemson had
Aug 28, 2012, 7:38 AM
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its about recruiting, coaching go so far
tb we had 2,3 stars and little 4 star players
now we are 3,4 and little 5 stars
al,lsu have lived on all 4and 5 stars recruits
for a long time.
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All-In [27178]
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None. It didn't hurt us last year when we lost 4 out of our
Aug 28, 2012, 9:39 AM
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last 6 to close out the year. We win 9 or 10 this year in the worst case scenario.
Stop listening to the coots would be my advice.
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