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Associate AD [806]
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Go look at the basketball rankings and tell me
Feb 25, 2018, 10:47 AM
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how many football powerhouses are currently ranked. Bama/no...Penn State / no .....Oklahoma/ no...Georgia/no.....etc etc. Clemson and Ohio State yes . Our team and a team we beat this year . For whatever reason it is highly unusual for fb powerhouses to excel in bb . I would still like to see our bb program take the next step but I am glad we are at least competitive this year . Since Brad's biggest issue appears to be recruiting maybe we can get Dabo to recruit basketball too . That would be awesome . He could play horse with the kids Mom's while selling them on the how their kid can be part of the Clemson family . Problem solved.
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All-In [44047]
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Yet another post joking-but-not-really about Dano recruiting basketball.
Feb 25, 2018, 11:13 AM
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When will they stop?
Brad seems to be doing just fine recruiting these days. All he needed was better facilities and administrative support - which is also what it took for Dabo to recruit at a high level.
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110%er [8008]
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Brad is no Dabo..***
Feb 25, 2018, 11:16 AM
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110%er [6680]
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However, Brad has listened, learned and applied some Dabo
Feb 25, 2018, 11:20 AM
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lessons to his team. I like the way he encourages Dabo to come talk to his team to. You have to admire Brad to be humble enough to listen and learn...GO TIGERS!
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Orange Blooded [2760]
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I’ve met both in person numerous times
Feb 25, 2018, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Brad is no Dabo..*** ] |
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I’ll take B.B. every single day.
I certainly like Dabo but he isn’t the mini-god most on this board think he is.
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All-In [44047]
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Brad is an outstanding person
Feb 25, 2018, 2:20 PM
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and far from the boring and bland personality many here make him out to be.
He's also a lot better recruiter than many here give him credit for.
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All-In [38427]
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Orange Blooded [4142]
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All-In [44047]
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Nor should he try to be. He should be Brad.
Feb 25, 2018, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to Brad is no Dabo..*** ] |
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Dabo is an amazing coach and person, but the notion that our basketball struggles could be fixed if Dabo were recruiting is ridiculous.
Why don't we start by continuing to improve (or at least maintaining) our basketball facilities, giving Brownell the resources he needs in terms of assistant coaches' salaries and support staff, and stop treating basketball like a second class citizen? Then we will give Brownell a fighting chance to consistently compete against the Dukes, UNCs, Louisvilles, and Syracuses of the world when it comes to recruiting.
Based on the standings this year, I'd say he is doing a heck of a job.
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Orange Blooded [2132]
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Re: Yet another post joking-but-not-really about Dano recruiting basketball.
Feb 25, 2018, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Yet another post joking-but-not-really about Dano recruiting basketball. ] |
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How did Purnell make the tourney 4 straight years? I know he didn't do well once getting there but he got there. Facilities are nice but guys want to win. If you interview players their main objective is winning. Sure some might say having great facilities is apart of it but they want to win. If it was as easy as facilities Brownell would have brought in a great class the first year the facilities were complete. Its about winning, saying it has to do with anything else is a farce. I understand the school wanting to give Brownell an ability to do his job with everything he needs but this is the year where the state has a few quality players so this is the year I expect Brownell to grab some top 100-150 guys, well I guess 2019 not this year. Blaming not winning nor getting talent on buildings is lazy. If it plays any part it plays a very very small part of it. Its about wins. Thinking Dabo started recruiting better because of the facilities is laughable. Winning is what brought Clemson to where it is. Elite guys want to play for rings. I bet Watson didn't sign here because Clemson had an indoor practice facility. I have never not once heard an interview where the guy says he signed with a school because of the facilities. Thats just a lazy answer.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Yet another post joking-but-not-really about Dano recruiting basketball.
Feb 25, 2018, 1:48 PM
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"...this is the year I expect Brownell to grab some top 100-150 guys..."
We've got a number of those on this year's squad.
Donte Grantham:
Signed in the fall of 2013 with Gabe DeVoe, both of whom were top-150 prospects
Gabe Devoe:
Signed in the fall of 2013 with Donte Grantham, both of whom were top-150 prospects ... came to Clemson after a decorated high school career in nearby Shelby, N.C. ... Parade All-American as a high school senior, only the fifth such honor for a Clemson signee ... one of the top scorers in all of high school basketball in 2013-14 ... led the state of North Carolina in scoring average as a senior
Amir Simms:
Four-star prospect according to 247 Sports, ESPN, Rivals and Scout ... rated as high as the No. 89 prospect in the nation by Rivals ... also No. 104 by Scout and No. 107 by 247 Sports ... No. 3 prospect from the state of Virginia by ESPN and No. 7 by Rivals ... No. 27 prospect at the power forward spot by ESPN
Scott Spencer:
Rated No. 24 small forward prospect in the class of 2016 by ESPN ... No. 26 small forward prospect by Scout ... No. 138 prospect, regardless of position, by Rivals
Transfers wooed to Clemson:
Elijah Thomas:
Consensus top-50 prospect in the class of 2015 ... rated No. 29 overall and No. 2 in the state of Texas by Rivals.com ... rated No. 31 overall and No. 2 in Texas by ESPN ... rated No. 50 overall and No. 4 in Texas by Scout.com ... No. 6 center prospect in the class according to 247 Sports
Shelton Mitchell:
Rated as a four-star prospect (No. 76 overall) in the class of 2015 by Rivals.com ... also the No. 76 overall prospect according to Scout.com ... rated as a top-15 point guard prospect by both services
Down below 150, but top-200:
Clyde Trapp:
Rated the No. 4 prospect in the state of South Carolina by 247 Sports ... top-200 prospect nationally according to 247 Sports as well ... led Lower Richland High School to a AAAA state championship
Malik William
Top-200 prospect nationally according to 247 Sports ... rated the No. 20 prospect from the state of Florida in the class of 2017 by 247 Sports
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All-In [44047]
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Excellent post. I think a lot of the people complaining
Feb 25, 2018, 2:32 PM
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about basketball recruiting assume that we only recruit players who weren't wanted by anyone else in the top conferences. That's simply not true, especially not lately.
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Legend [19687]
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Oliver was as well, and this upcoming recruiting class
Feb 25, 2018, 4:06 PM
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Clemson's bio for Oliver just lists him as "Four-star prospect according to ESPN, Rivals and Scout" without anything about top-150, etc.
247 lists 2018 commits:
John Newman, SG 6-5 180, National 148/Position 31/State 10
Trey Jemison, PF 6-11 245, 203/48/2
Hunter Tyson, SF 6-7 180, 228/50/12
Using the ESPN site
2010 class, (1 signee) one 2*
Cory Stanton 2* #81PG grade 85
2011 class, (5 signees) two ESPN 100, one 4*, three 3*, one 2*
Bernard Sullivan 4* #22PF grade 92, KJ McDaniels 3* #35SF grade 91, Daniel Sapp 3* #46PG grade 89, Devin Coleman 3* #54SG grade 89, Rod Hall 2* #108PG grade 82
2012 class, (5 signees) one ESPN 100, one 4*, two 3*, two 2*
Jaron Blossomgame (ESPN100) 4* #23SF grade 92, Landry Nnoko 3* #28C grade 89, Adonis Filer 3*, Jordan Roper 2* #29PG grade 88, Josh Smith 2* #34C grade 88
2013 class, (4 signees) two 3*, one 2*
Austin Ajukwa 3* #26SG grade 78, Patrick Rooks 3* #28SG grade 78, Sidy Djitte 2* #43C grade 66, Ibrahim Djamo NR
2014 class, (2 signees) one 3*, one 2*
Donte Granthm 3*, Gabe Devoe 2* #96SG grade 66
2015 class, (2 signees) one 4*
Ty Hudson 4* #24PG grade 80, Legend Robertin NR
2016 class, (1 signee) one 3*
Scott Spencer 3* #27SF grade 79
2017 class, (4 signees) three 4*
Malik William 4* #26PF grade 82, Aamir Simms 4* #27PF grade 82, A.J. Oliver 4* #38SG grade 80, Clyde Trapp NR
2018 class, (lists 1 commit) one 4*
John Newman 4* #42SF grade 80
Message was edited by: mpercy®
Message was edited by: mpercy® (I added the ESPN grades)
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Oliver was as well, and this upcoming recruiting class
Feb 25, 2018, 4:38 PM
[ in reply to Oliver was as well, and this upcoming recruiting class ] |
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And for comparison, the ESPN site goes back to 2007 although the star-rankings seem to be missing for some years
2007 class, (three signees) stars not displayed
Jerai Grant #29PF grade 92, Terrance Oglesby #42SG grade 91, Demontez Stitt #240PG grade 54
2008 class, (four signees) stars not displayed
Andre Young #29PG grade 88, Catalin Baciu #28C grade 88, Tanner Smith #46SG, Bryan Narcisse NR
2009 class, (four signees) stars not displayed
Milton Jennings (ESPN100) #2SF grade 95, Noel Johnson (ESPN100) #3SF grade 95, Devin Booker #46PF grade 89, Donte Hill #93 SG grade 85
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All-In [44047]
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Facilities matter a ton at a place like Clemson.
Feb 25, 2018, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yet another post joking-but-not-really about Dano recruiting basketball. ] |
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Why else would a top basketball recruit want to come to Clemson? In the past, it was only because we resorted to illegal tactics to get them to (see Lock, Tates and Ellis, Cliff).
We have no real basketball history. We play in the toughest basketball conference in America. We typically have one or two players in the NBA at any given time, at the most. We are viewed as a school that supports football at the expense of basketball, and as a fan base that doesn't really care about basketball.
Yet a coach is supposed to waltz into town and convince top players to come to Clemson?
In the past, the only way to have any consistent NCAA Tournament success at Clemson in basketball is to play a gimmick system or luck into it. Cliff Ellis had one good team every few years, but a couple of those teams were really good. Unfortunately, we had to vacate some of those NCAA Tournament wins after the fact. Rick Barnes had some good teams, but the key to his several year NCAA Tournament run was hitting on two players who fell under the radar - Greg Buckner and Terrell McIntyre. Plus, he played a slow it down, methodical offensive style (which is also what Brownell did in his first 5 years here) to negate talent deficiencies and allow us to be competitive. Purnell had some success playing a full court press style of game, which worked well to pad our wins against lesser opponents and get us into the NCAA Tournament but didn't help much against good teams. We occasionally beat a powerhouse like Duke, but usually not.
To get an idea of how many good teams are in the ACC now, look at the fact that the last six years has seen a different ACC Tournament champion. That is amazing. And yet we have been extremely competitive the last two years, and have won most of our games this year. It shows excellent coaching. That, plus finally getting the facilities, will help. But we have to string together many years of success, including some success in the NCAA Tournament, to get that top talent consistently. I believe we can, but we shouldn't expect a coach to come in here and do that without a lot more support than we have historically given to basketball
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110%er [5084]
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Re: Go look at the basketball rankings and tell me
Feb 25, 2018, 11:26 AM
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Guess all the other fooitball powers not ranked in hoops should get their football coaches to help with basketball recruiting.
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Legend [17774]
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For whatever reason it is highly unusual for fb powerhouses to excel in bb
Feb 25, 2018, 11:31 AM
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Reasons: Many more upper division teams in basketball than football. A single player or two can carry a team far. Freshman one and done creates high year to year variables. Basketball is THE sport at more schools in D1.
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: For whatever reason it is highly unusual for fb powerhouses to excel in bb
Feb 25, 2018, 12:12 PM
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Good points but if it takes so little why can't Bama or Georgia get on the map in BB ? I am not a Brad basher in fact I defend him quite often but to blame the facilities is not fair . Furthermore Dabo was a great recruiter way before the up grades when he was an assistant . BTW I was at the bb game yesterday and thought Coach did a great job . I did not realize he was so animated . It does not show through on tv. Getting Mitchell back is huge . It allows our scorers to do their thing instead of running the team . I have really enjoyed this year but like every sports fan I would love to see them take the next step .
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Schools who have excelled in both
Feb 25, 2018, 12:16 PM
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At the same time: Florida (can't think of others but osu, mich, texas seem like candidates)
Only bball: Kentucky Villanova unc duke uconn Kansas Louis Arizona
Only fball: bama Clem fsu Miami aub Lsu USC Uga ou neb
National success, we haven't done that on bball so no we aren't classified as a "both" school.
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: Schools who have excelled in both
Feb 25, 2018, 12:25 PM
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Agreed . I have to admit football baseball and even soccer have me a little spoiled .We are in great shape in all those sports and appear to be on the rise in basketball .
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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and why is Ohio st. a powerhouse***
Feb 25, 2018, 1:27 PM
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110%er [6031]
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if you are referring to basketball
Feb 25, 2018, 3:12 PM
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then Ohio State has been to 11 final fours and have a championship as well as some NIT championships. not to mention their 20 regular season conference championships and four big 10 tourney championships. I'd say that qualifies as a powerhouse
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I'm guessing Dabo would have a much more difficult time
Feb 25, 2018, 2:00 PM
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selling Clemson basketball than Clemson football.
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Associate AD [806]
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Re: I'm guessing Dabo would have a much more difficult time
Feb 25, 2018, 5:59 PM
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I was just kidding about Dabo recruiting basketball . I mean really it was a joke but to be honest it was a joke based on the fact that we do not recruit at that high of a level in basketball . I could not find a top 25 recruiting class( according to espn ) untill I went back to 2009 . I think Brad is a great game day coach , a great representative for the school , develops talent well and this year especially he has gotten the most out of his players . It is however ludicrous to think that if we would not be better if we could improve our recruiting .
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All-In [44047]
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No doubt that talent wins games.
Feb 25, 2018, 6:06 PM
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We are getting better talent these past few years, which is a big reason why we are ranked in the top 15 nationally and top 4 in the ACC.
This look at our 2018 class should ease your concerns:
https://www.tigernet.com/forum/thread/2018-Basketball-Recruiting-Summary-1785656?tstart=0
It's not where we ultimately want it to be, but it is very good and with Brad's coaching we should continue our momentum from this year.
From where I sit, the key to landing top 10-15 classes consistently is to become a fixture in the NCAA Tournament while continuing to make it obvious that Clemson supports basketball and cares about it. That means maintaining our facilities, not just updating them once every 20 years after seeing them fall way behind. It means paying our coaches good salaries and giving them all the resources they need. And it means showing up to games and cheering on the team.
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