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Orange Blooded [2758]
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From continuously reading posts several times a day for
Feb 24, 2018, 8:20 PM
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many years, I have been waiting to see a post tonight saying, “Fire Brownell.” I mean, according to their logic he was not supposed to be down by 11 at one point in the second half.
I am sick of almost half of our posters that do not give him a chance. Put yourself in Clemson, SC, Littlejohn just got renovated, and you are supposed to out recruit UNC, Duke, Louisville, etc? Give me a break.
One thing I will tell you is, should Brad duplicate next season what he has done this season, and a more attractive program approaches him, I will not blame him for leaving us. Next to Hatfield I have never seen a Clemson coach get less support from all our fan base.
Flame away!
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All-Pro [679]
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Re: From continuously reading posts several times a day for
Feb 24, 2018, 8:31 PM
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the polar bear on the iceberg going from the North Pole to the South Pole said "chocolate."
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All-In [30804]
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Yes! Yes! Let the hate flow through you!***
Feb 25, 2018, 7:28 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I'll give you a break.
Feb 25, 2018, 8:32 AM
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First I'd like to break your logic.
If Clemson's Administration had that attitude toward football we would have reconciled that Tommy Bowden would have been satisfactory since Clemson couldn't recruit against Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, FSU, ND, USC and half a dozen other football programs. We would still be boasting about a national championship which many Clemson fans can't remember because they weren't born then or too young.
You can relegate yourself to being second class but if you think you can relegate Clemson to second class you are wrong. Evifukingdently you don't understand who we are.
Brownell seems to be doing better and I'm willing to hold my tongue for another year but if we don't go deep in the tournament in next season I'm going to be crying for his head.
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: I'll give you a break.
Feb 25, 2018, 8:41 AM
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If we don’t go deep in the tourney you are calling for his head? Just out of curiosity which coach in America would take this team minus maybe it’s best player in Grantham and go further then where they are today.
Don’t confuse basketball with football. Even under Bowden our football program had tradition and winning ways. Basketball has had a few good players. Way tougher job to recruit to clemson for basketball vs football even pre-Dabo days.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I'll give you a break.
Feb 25, 2018, 8:59 AM
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Oregon did it 2 years ago. Xavier had a run last year in the tournament without Summer.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Horsechit.
Feb 25, 2018, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'll give you a break. ] |
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Our football program was curb stomped by FSU and the other blue bloods during the time between Danny and Dabo. You guys are willing to settle for being second class citizens in the basketball world.
Football requires a heck of a lot more players than basketball and a heck of a lot more development of those players too. There's no excuse for Clemson not competing with the best in basketball.
BTW, I'm not one of the guys who has been landblasting Brownell. I challenge you to find a post where I have criticized a sitting coach. I'm not that guy so don't lump me in with the dumpers. thanks
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All-In [43989]
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No one is settling for anything.
Feb 25, 2018, 2:08 PM
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I see no reason why we can't be a powerhouse in football and basketball. But if we don't get there, it won't be Brownell's fault.
Football has resources basketball does not. The facility upgrades were great, but they merely got us to above average in the ACC. They are still not on par with what Duke, UNC, Louisville, etc. have.
Brownell needs to be given better resources - more for assistant salaries, more support staff for recruiting and social media help, etc. Even then, things take time. I view Brownell mostly on last year and this year. Those are years 1 and 2 of his tenure, if we want to be fair about this. He was playing checkers while most everyone else was playing chess during the first 6 years of his tenure. And he still had us very competitive.
You want to be competitive in basketball? Then stop allowing Clemson's administration and fans to treat basketball like a second class citizen. Push for continued facility upgrades, coaching staff resources, and consistent support. Get Clemson fans to consistently show up for games and be loud, not just when we are ranked in the top 15 and playing UNC at home.
This process takes time. We are getting there, but we have to be patient for the newfound basketball support at Clemson to take hold.
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Orange Blooded [3371]
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Re: I'll give you a break.
Feb 25, 2018, 9:05 AM
[ in reply to I'll give you a break. ] |
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And according to your logic we would have fired Dabo his second year. And don’t give me he didn’t have five years at that point. Because there were tons of people calling for his head and saying he was an over glorified cheerleader.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I said I wasn't calling for Brownell's head.
Feb 25, 2018, 9:53 AM
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I understand it takes a while to change the character of a program. There are many facets of this discussion which some of you are overlooking.
Dabo had to recruit talent, develop them into starters and build depth behind them. Basically he needed 45-50 players to get us where we are today. Basketball doesn't take 45-50 players. It take about 15 or so.
I'm giving Brownell another year because we are recuperating from rebuilding Littlejohn and playing games in Greenville. We should be on the verge of making a run. Perhaps this is happening and perhaps it isn't. We'll see. We need to be looking for a coach who can recruit the talent we need to compete with the blue bloods.
You guys are fine with being second class. I am not.
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All-Pro [682]
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Re: I'll give you a break.
Feb 25, 2018, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to I'll give you a break. ] |
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Football recruiting is much easier at Clemson than basketball recruiting.Less great players and tough basketball teams to recruit against.I don’t think any fan wants to settle for second class anything but no basketball coach at Clemson has never produced great recruiting classes and the record will show that we occasionally get a above average player but it’s rare.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Yeah, it is now since we're beating the crap out of...
Feb 25, 2018, 1:37 PM
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FSU, OU, OSU and the SEC. During the years between Danny and Dabo football was about the same as basketball. I remember times when I was delighted to see either our football or basketball team being ranked in the top 25. If we made it to the BB tournament we'd celebrate for just being there. The best we ever did is a sweet 16.
That's not good enough for Clemson! We should be landing first class talent with first class character in basketball just like we recruit in football.
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All-In [43989]
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You have it all wrong.
Feb 25, 2018, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to I'll give you a break. ] |
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Imagine if Dabo had not gotten the facilities he asked for and badly needed until year 7 or 8. Imagine that Death Valley had some decent additions such as the WEZ, but no indoor practice facility. Now imagine that Clemson football didn't have a national championship in its past, or anything more than a couple of decent bowl games ever. Also, imagine that Clemson's facilities and history were near the bottom of the ACC. And finally, imagine that Clemson was not the most popular sport on campus, and wasn't really supported that well by the administration.
How do you think Dabo would've done then? Heck, look at Dabo's first few years at Clemson. They were okay, but nothing to write home about and certainly not up to Clemson's expectations. But then something magical happened. He got his system in place. He got the facilities and administrative support he needed. And the program took off, to a level never seen before.
Brownell has just gotten necessary facility upgrades and administrative support. But he got them in year 7, not earlier in his career like Dabo did. And he still plays in a tougher conference, against schools with a far better basketball history than we have, with better administrative support, and greater fan involvement. Yet he is STILL doing a great job, has us in the top 15, and contending for a top 4 finish in the ACC. That is amazing.
Dabo is great, but your decision to equate Dabo and Brownell - and thus, football and basketball - is a poor one.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: From continuously reading posts several times a day for
Feb 25, 2018, 8:48 AM
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Not a BB hater and I love what he has done this season and last year we had a chance to be good but couldn't win close games. That said he has had over 5 years of chances. Nobody is expecting him to beat Duke, UNC, and UL every year. You do not have to beat those teams to make the tournament. I will continue to support him and hopefully we continue moving forward as a basketball program. If we make the tournament this year but then do not the next 2 years people have every right to want a change. Hopefully we build on this success tho. I believe we will and I am behind him 100%.
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Commissioner [941]
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I like Brownell
Feb 25, 2018, 1:26 PM
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But our team has no mojo. No swag. Fundamentals can only take you so far. Remember what Dabo told the football team back in 12? You can be great, but I can only show you the door. You must open it and go inside. Our basketball team is at the door. But until they BELIEVE, they will not reach the promised land. I don't know what can be done, because I am just a fan. There are flashes of greatness, and flashes of ###. But after almost a decade in the position, you'd think he'd have it figured out. For now, I am just going to enjoy putting Clemson in tourney bracket for the first time in a while, and hopefully the light switch will come on.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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You had that correct up to a point but left out a portion.
Feb 25, 2018, 1:48 PM
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Dabo was talking about performance on the field but he was also addressing the kids who didn't do their work off the field and prepare themselves to be their best, Jordan Leggett comes to mind. I don't believe Brownell has the drive to beat the bush for talent and the character to fit into our program. I think we need a culture change just like we had with our football program.
Best should be the standard.
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All-In [43989]
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A basketball culture change?
Feb 25, 2018, 1:57 PM
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You mean the one we've seen under Brownell doesn't impress you? The one with record graduation rates and record team GPAs? The one with zero arrests or off the court disciplinary issues? The one with significant community service involvement by our players?
Criticize the early part of Brownell's tenure at Clemson all you want when it comes to wins and losses, but he has absolutely shined in every other aspect of the program.
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All-In [43989]
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These are the same people who think our facilities
Feb 25, 2018, 1:54 PM
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are now the best in the country for basketball. Not only that, but the money we spent on the badly needed basketball facility upgrades is money we could've spent on football. Prioritizing basketball for once, even though football still got its new operations building - oh the horror! We better compete with Duke and UNC for 5 star recruits now!!!!
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: From continuously reading posts several times a day for
Feb 25, 2018, 2:05 PM
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OK- I'll flame.
Continuously would mean in all those years, you never looked away for even a second. The word for what you describe is continually.
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All-American [578]
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Re: From continuously reading posts several times a day for
Feb 25, 2018, 2:27 PM
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The problem with Ken Hatfield years were many players did not respect him and constantly broke team and Ath. Dept. rules. He was a very good coach but too lenient on his players. If you asked players from his last team, they will tell you that he had completely lost most of his players and something had to be done. Call it not adapting to changing times, if you want. But 1970's coaching styles did not go over well in the next decades.
A great Coach that he did not adjust his coaching style to the changing times.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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In other words...
Feb 25, 2018, 3:44 PM
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he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag.
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50
