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Replies: 41
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 10:47 AM
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That claim he walked into a bad situation and that nobody can win here with the admin/fan support and facilities that we have.
Let's take a look at OPs tenure vs Brownlee.
Straight from the NCAA RPI Archives: https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/default.aspx
The following info is Year, RPI, Overall Record, Conference Record
OP
2004 91 10-18 3-13
2005 82 16-16 5-11
2006 79 19-15 7-9
2007 34 25-11 7-9
2008 23 24-10 10-6 - NCAAT
2009 36 23-9 9-7 - NCAAT
2010 41 21-11 9-7 - NCAAT
Brownell
2011 55 22-12 9-7 - NCAAT
2012 150 16-15 8-8
2013 187 13-18 5-13
2014 65 23-13 10-8
2015 106 16-15 8-10
2016 107 16-11 9-6
A few takeaways....
Brownells best year/team was his first with OPs players.
OP surprised 20 wins in 4 of his 7 Seasons. Brownell has done it twice(first time with OPs players)
OP never had an RPI of over 100. We've seen that with Brownell in 4 out of 6 years(if this year remains).
OP took us to 3 straight NCAA tourneys. Brownell has done it once in his first year with OPs players.
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All-In [28205]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 10:50 AM
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this is how programs should be measured. as lunardi, bilas, vitale, etc. say during tourney time - its "body of work" this is a perfect example of bb's body of work
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All-In [27363]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 10:53 AM
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OP is a great coach. How has he done in the bush league he is in now?
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 10:54 AM
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How is that relevant to his performance at Clemson?
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All-In [27363]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 10:59 AM
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Seems like he was a good coach when he was able to get players that were close to ACC caliber talent wise. With average talent he is an average coach
Coach Barnes is the guy you should be raving about. What he did his first year at Clemson was beyond amazing. No coach should be able to win in the ACC with the slab five.... But he did
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 11:02 AM
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Barnes is/was a great coach, but why would I compare him to brownell instead of brownells predecessor?
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All-In [43992]
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Barnes did a great job with that first team.
Feb 24, 2016, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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They were predicted to be a bottom dweller and they were at least competitive. I do think those players were more talented than they were originally given credit for though.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 10:57 AM
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STATS ARE GREAT OK. LOOKS TO ME OP WON 50 ACC GAMES IN 7 YEARS. BRAD HAS WON 49 IN LESS THAN 6. THANKS FOR YOUR STATS. THEY DO NOT LIE.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 11:00 AM
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LOL
DERP GONNA DERP.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 11:01 AM
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AND LAST I CHECKED OP DID NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH EITHER PITT THE CUSE OR LEWISVILLE. DERP DERP.
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All-In [37023]
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serious question
Feb 24, 2016, 11:03 AM
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If brad is doing as good or better in the ACC than OP did, doesn't that directly show that he is doing terrible against the OOC foes we should dominate? If it were solely based on ACC then we would be in the tourney every year like OP was?
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: serious question
Feb 24, 2016, 11:06 AM
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DERP WOULD RATHER GO DOWN WITH A SINKING SHIP THAN CHANGE CAPTAINS.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: serious question
Feb 24, 2016, 11:10 AM
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DUDE YOU HAVE NO IDEA MY POSITION. I JUST AM SENSIBLE ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TILL AFTER NEXT YEAR AT THE EARLIEST. I AINT GONNA SPEND 24/7 DOGGING THE GUY. HE WILL GET MY SUPPORT AS LONG AS HE IS HERE. DONT MEAN I LIKED SAT. OR LAST NIGHT BY ANY MEANS. NO WAY WE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THAT GAME AWAY LAST NIGHT.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: serious question
Feb 24, 2016, 11:12 AM
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supporting and making excuses for him are 2 different things....HTH
You did the same crap with leggett last year. How'd that work out?
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: serious question
Feb 24, 2016, 11:15 AM
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LEGGETT WOULD STILL BE HERE HAD HE GOT RID OF PEP. HARD HEAD HARDLY EVER WINS OUT. BUT HEY, HE IS GONE. SO NOW I WILL SUPPORT THE NEW GUY. DRAD MADE A GREAT HIRE IMO.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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THOSE 8 GAMES OVER BROWNELLS TENURE REALLY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE BIG PICTURE....
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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What are Pitt and Cuse ranked?
Feb 24, 2016, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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How does that compare with playing Duke and UNC twice a year?
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CU Medallion [50635]
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wake was pretty good years ago too***
Feb 24, 2016, 9:03 PM
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Legend [16120]
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last season we played both twice in the regular season was
Feb 25, 2016, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to What are Pitt and Cuse ranked? ] |
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over a decade ago....Larry was the last coach to have to play them twice a season every season
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Recruit [89]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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I am a big Brownell fan, but could not understand playing Roper 40 minutes and never putting Hudson back in the game in the second half after he scored 8 in the first half. I think he is going to have bad luck again in that I think Blossomgame will leave. We should be pretty good without him next year, but should be really good with him.
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All-In [27363]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 24, 2016, 11:04 AM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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Since the league has expanded since OP left that isn't a good comparison. Brad has probably played more league games but OP didn't play Syracuse or Louisville etc
Do you think that the problem might be leadership on the floor? Clemson just doesn't seem to have that one guy who can win games like the one I watched last night
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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But the other part of that is that OP probably played Duke
Feb 24, 2016, 11:25 AM
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UNC and the other ACC powers twice every year. BB usually only plays them once a year along with the other new teams once a year.
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CU Guru [1746]
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So its all about the conference wins for you?
Feb 24, 2016, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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keep in mind they play more conference games now too...but BB would still have more by year 7 regardless.
BB is a quality coach, but not setting the world on fire. Is the program better now than it was when he took over? Probably about the same. He inherited a NCAA group and then built his the program to his own liking and he has never been back. I think our program is in solid shape but its pretty stale. BB is a 5-7 to 7-5 football coach. `
Clemson just has to decide what they want.
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CU Guru [1904]
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OP got 16 reg season ACC games while BB gets 18, if that makes a difference to you*****
Feb 24, 2016, 8:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: For you Brownlee apologists ] |
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All-In [43992]
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OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support.
Feb 24, 2016, 11:01 AM
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Brownell is just now getting his new arena. This will be significant for him, as he has not recruited as well as Purnell thus far. It is clearly getting better though.
The ACC has also gotten even tougher since Brownell became our coach, which makes his best ACC win percentage among Clemson coaches even more impressive. This does not excuse the fact that we are not a perennial NCAA team, but it does seem relevant since you are comparing the two coaches.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support.
Feb 24, 2016, 11:02 AM
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CORRECT JUDGE. BRAD KNOWS WHAT THE DEAL IS. NEXT YEAR IS #### OR GET OFF THE POT TIME.
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Recruit [89]
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Re: OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support.
Feb 24, 2016, 11:04 AM
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Agree!
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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how has the ACC gotten tougher?
Feb 24, 2016, 3:44 PM
[ in reply to OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support. ] |
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you can't say that unless you compare the teams OP played to the teams BB is playing...
BB has played many of the lower end ACC teams, and lost to them... it seems. I don't recall us playing Cuse, UofL, or Pitt enough the last couple of years to make that comparison
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All-In [43992]
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According to Ken Pomeroy, we have the 7th toughest ACC schedule this season.
Feb 24, 2016, 8:51 PM
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Please stop perpetuating the myth that we have had a much easier conference schedule than other ACC teams. That is factually incorrect.
Criticizing Brownell's shortcomings, such as recruiting, is justified. Minimizing his ACC successes this year by lying about his schedule is not justified.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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ok.. overall here are the numbers
Feb 24, 2016, 9:19 PM
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from 2004 - 2010, Clemson's SOS was 35 --- Purnell
from 2010 - 2016, Clemson's SOS is 73 ---- Brownell
that's overall, but it paints a good picture
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Legend [16900]
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Re: how has the ACC gotten tougher?
Feb 24, 2016, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to how has the ACC gotten tougher? ] |
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It hasn't. A lot of folks are stuck in "best basketball conference" mode and it hasn't been true for a long time.
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110%er [5912]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support.
Feb 24, 2016, 4:09 PM
[ in reply to OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support. ] |
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> The ACC has also gotten even tougher since Brownell
> became our coach,
That isn't necessarily so. Since 1979 the ACC has made the Final Four 29 times, more than any other conference. However, 21 out of those 29 times it was either Duke or UNC.
Duke and UNC have clearly been dominant, not necessarily so of the ACC. We sort of see that in football as well.
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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CU Guru [1746]
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the fan support hasnt changed....
Feb 24, 2016, 5:48 PM
[ in reply to OP also had a brand new arena and great fan support. ] |
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the quality of the team has. I guess Ken Hatfield failed bc a lot fans chose to stay home in his few seasons?
Fans show up when they like what they see. The new arena aint doing shat for BB....We will still get the same kids...just hope some develop like KJ and Blossomgame and we get a lights out shooter here and there.
We do win a lot of ACC games, but lose to yahoos during OOC play. Loses like last night were bad though....that's average basketball, with average coaching. GT is garbage and we fell on our face in a must win game.
Maybe Purnell didn't win as many ACC games, but he did get us in the tourney 3 years in a row and probably a 4th had he stayed....yes we played crappy OOC schedules, but we won those games and his formula worked.
You are judged on the end result and basketball success is measured by getting to the NCAA...just like how bowl games are the measurement for mediocre football programs.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Well OP didn't win NCAA tourney games
Feb 24, 2016, 11:41 AM
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We'd much rather have an Xs and Os guy who doesn't even get us there.
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Walk-On [116]
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That's funny^^^ unless ur
Feb 25, 2016, 1:55 PM
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a pumper
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Deer Phantom TD'er***
Feb 24, 2016, 3:28 PM
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Who adds nothing to conversation
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Crump ain't gonna like you
Feb 24, 2016, 3:31 PM
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talkin bad about her. hth.
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CU Medallion [61465]
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Whoa, whoa, whoa
Feb 24, 2016, 3:50 PM
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Those are factual statistics!
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: For you Brownlee apologists
Feb 25, 2016, 1:46 PM
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I AM NOT AN APOLOGISTS,BUT I BET HE WON'T LEAVE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WITHOUT SAYING GOODBY TO HIS PLAYERS.IT IS CALLED CHARACTER.
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Walk-On [116]
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Dayum! Pumpers can't like
Feb 25, 2016, 1:53 PM
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those facts.
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Replies: 41
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