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Topic: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated
Replies: 35   Last Post: Feb 17, 2020 7:00 PM by: SocMan2®
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Replies: 35  

Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated

[7]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:08 PM
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recruits EVER coming in the 2020 class. DRad would be an idiot to fire Brownell after this season. Good thing none of you are AD's.


Don't worry. He's not going to.***

[2]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:28 PM
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Are we talking the 3rd & 4th highest recruits EVER in the


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:29 PM
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years that Brownell has ben there or EVER in the history of Clemson basketball?


All-time, or at least as far back as internet rankings go.

[2]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 11:39 PM
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Skip Wise, Stan Rome, Ricky Jones, Sharone Wright, and Tree Rollins probably would be among our highest rated recruits if there has been such ranking sevices like Rivals, 247, ESPN, etc. back then.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Clarke Bynum as well. Maybe Dale Davis***


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 11:46 PM
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Yep, and Michael Brown, Jerry Pryor, and Devin Gray.***


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 12:05 AM
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


And Elden Campbell.***


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 12:16 AM
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Heck, Wayne Buckingham was highly rated

[2]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020 8:09 AM
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Always thought him blowing out his knee cost Cliff an extended run


Re: Heck, Wayne Buckingham was highly rated


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 3:23 PM
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And probably the best player ever here, was Larry Nance . .although he was a steal as far as recruiting goes.


Re: All-time, or at least as far back as internet rankings go.


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 1:53 PM
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Those guys played while I was a student. That was some amazing basketball.


Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:33 PM
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I noticed you didn't mention how high they are rated. Will we rank in top 30 of recruiting?

I am looking for a bb program that consistently wins 22+ games and get in NCAA tourney at least 50% of time. Of course I realize this is a mediocre expectation but I'm taking into account we have nearly always had a poor program.

Glad to hear we are now going to be mediocre instead of poor.

2020 white level member

Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:46 PM
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You are a true fan. You probably want them to lose to BB will get fired. Well no worries there. He will return for next year.


Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 10:20 PM
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I find your comments interesting. I believe before we are critical of coaching we should establish the standard we desire from a coach. I was merely pointing out my standard for Brownell or any other coach. My standard seems reasonable to me as I was around some reasonable Clemson bb teams in the 70's.
I guess you are pulling for the coach and NOT the team.
PS: I have never said any negative comment about Brownell.

2020 white level member

Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 10:39 PM
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Ok, you mean for us to go on probation. That is what happened in the '70's with Tates. And do not bring up Oliver. He taught good defense but his offenses lacked. And he also drew a complete whiff by not trying to sign Curry.


Purnell

[2]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 10:57 PM
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OP took Clemson to the NCAA tournament is his last 3 years here and the NIT the 3 before that. He is, factually, the best coach in Clemson history.

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Re: Purnell


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 5:25 AM
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Fluxus said:

OP took Clemson to the NCAA tournament is his last 3 years here and the NIT the 3 before that. He is, factually, the best coach in Clemson history.




No he is not by a long stretch. We went to the Tournament, but we never won a game due to his poor recruiting and our offense.

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Re: Purnell


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 8:46 AM
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Clemson was a LOT better for Purnell than Purnell was for Clemson. How did his coaching career go after he high tailed it??? Not to go. Obscurity is a word I find fitting!


Rich is another one

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020 8:49 AM
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Purnell was fine for Clemson. He made us relevant again after the 5 years of Shyatt


Purnell consistently got us to the NCAA tournament, and to


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 1:29 PM
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the post season, moreso than any coach before or since. The only way to improve upon that would be to get us past the 1st round (which OP failed to do). Brownell has only done that one year. I agree that Purnell maxed out at Clemson as good teams figured out his full court pressure scheme, and my hope when he left was that we'd get a coach that could get us beyond that, and beyond the 1st round of the tournament. That did not happen, and instead, we did not even make it to the tournement once Purnell's players were gone. In no way, shape, or form can that be twisted or rationalized into improvement of any kind.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Logic

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 10:49 PM
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Careful with logical arguments on TNET. They're likely to get you attacked.

I was thinking about the same thing after the win over Louisville yesterday. What is our standard? What is the expectation that's handed down from the AD to Brownell? Logically, Brownell must be meeting or exceeding those expectations, since he's still employed in his 10th season as head coach.

It sounds harsh, but the reality for everyone is that if you're not meeting the expectations for your job, you will soon find yourself looking for another one.

In Brownell's 9 full seasons, Clemson has made the NCAA tournament twice. We've been right around a .500 team in the ACC for those seasons, peaking 2 seasons ago at .611. That's the high water mark during the Brownell tenure.

Here's where I ended up in my pondering. Brownell reports to president Clements. Clements reports to the Board of Trustees. So, the BoT must find Brownell to be acceptable. But why? My best 2 guesses are that 1) they view their main mission, when it comes to athletics, as ensuring the success of the football program (i.e. "we're a football school" excuse). With the success of Dabo over the past decade, Brownell can get by with .500 season and running a clean program. And 2) I also suspect that Dabo may be influencing them to retain Brownell because he just likes the guy.

If there is a standard, it's not being applied equally. Amanda Butler is our 4th women's basketball coach in the past 10 years. Obviously the 3 before her got fired because of bad seasons. Maybe they should have won 50% of their games?

Regardless, we ran Tommy Bowden out of town for 10 seasons of .615 football and Hatfield for .707 football. Brownell has inexplicably held onto his job by winning 50% of his game where others with lower and higher win percentages got their walking papers. It's just weird and unexpected. And, I think I've talked myself into believing Dabo is helping Brownell keep his job. He's the only person powerful enough to stop it.

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By all-time, you mean last 20 years***


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:53 PM
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As far back as recruiting rankings go, which pretty much


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 11:43 PM
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came along with the internet, so 20-30 years.

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2020 8:57 PM
    Reply

You can recruit the best guys ever, but if you can't coach them it means nothing. Just look at Georgia this year. Top 5 class. They lost to Texas A & M yesterday and many others.


Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 9:04 PM
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mdfosse said:

You can recruit the best guys ever, but if you can't coach them it means nothing. Just look at Georgia this year. Top 5 class. They lost to Texas A & M yesterday and many others.

instead of "can't coach them"

Switch to "they don't listen".

For players to play as a team, they must respond to the coach.


Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 10:29 PM
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The coach should recruit players that listen. I believe BB has done an okay job and maybe he gets us back on the right track next year because we all know he isn't going anywhere. I just want to win in basketball like we do in football. We can do it. Just get the kids on campus is what Dabo says. Why can it not be the same with basketball?


Our fans and administration have to want that level of


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 3:28 PM
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success in basketball. Do you honestly think they do?

We are too enamored with our "we're a football school" identity to go for something like that.

As of the rankings I saw several years ago, Clemson ranked near the bottom of the ACC in basketball spending. Look how much time and effort our coach had to spend raising money for the new facilities. Look at how long it took Brownell to be given the budget to get the assistant coaches and support staff he spent years asking for.

Look at how hard it is to get fans to show up consistently for basketball games. There is always an excuse as to why they didn't.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Fans will support winning,


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 3:41 PM
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They came out for Oliver, I know you don't particularly like discussing him, in mass. The gym was packed through the week and on the weekends, There was even an OPP section in the students and/or crowd because it was exciting.

If Brad can finish this year strong and start next year hot the fans will show up guaranteed.

Fan support wasn't super high for Bowden, yes it was higher than West but it took tommy winning some games first. When he plateaued and couldn't get over the hump attendance began to drop and that's one of the reasons the heat was put on him and he stepped down. When Dabo took over and started winning the attendance grew like wildfire.

The same will happen for basketball as it did in the past.

I think D-Rad wants to be good at everything and has invested in Little John and hopefully Brad can turn it around the rest of this year and next year with the two new recruits. If he can Fans will be there!

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Lately, I've been thinking that may be the issue.***


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 11:38 PM
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UNC too, has much higher rated players than the Tigers***


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 2:02 PM
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If you're going to just make stuff up


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 9:52 PM
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talk about how you'll win the SEC East this year


Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while***


Posted: Feb 16, 2020 10:24 PM
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that's cool. do you have the "EVER" info?***


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 12:46 AM
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Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020 8:05 AM
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Until the NCAA starts to even act like they care about the rules I have a feeling Clemson is where it will be for the near future anyways. Take the Creepy #### Lawyer Michael Avenatti (sp) where it came out that Nike was paying players 10's of thousands of dollars to steer them toward certain schools, and yes Zion's name has came up multiple times in these hearings about receiving illicit benefits. Don't worry though because Duke investigated THEMSELVES and told everyone not to worry they are clean as a whistle. AAU is corrupt. You have AAU coaches in this state steering high caliber guys to schools that can give something in return. I'm as frustrated with BB as anyone but then I realize what is he suppose to do. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can't go dirty so it's a double punch because the blue bloods are blue bloods and they're dirty. I don't know the answer. I would try finding a guy who can just recruit. I don't care about the X's and O's let's get the Jimmy's and Joe's. I get it on both ends though. I understand the "fire BB" crowd but also understand the "stick with BB" crowd. It's tough but I don't think anything will really change until the NCAA cracks down on the dirty wars of other programs. The only other thing is trying to bring in as highly touted guys as you can and mix them with transfer guys and hope one year you get the combination right. I will say this though, no team has ever won a championship until they did. So I put ZERO stock in history. That shouldn't even be an excuse and if for you it is then quietly stand up and exit the building because obviously you pay zero concept of history.


Tell 'em u6c coot


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 8:42 AM
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.


To clarify your post, they are the 3rd and 4th highest rated

[1]
Posted: Feb 17, 2020 3:33 PM
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recruits since basketball recruiting rankings became prominent.

I assume you are referring to the 247Sports.com ranking, which is since 2000.

https://247sports.com/college/clemson/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits/

I agree that both Hall and Prosper are very good recruits, and show that Brownell CAN recruit. It shows that the facility and staff investments our athletic department made are paying off. And based on Brad's ability to do more with less, it suggests that our basketball future is bright.

I just wanted to clarify for all those who are thinking of highly rated recruits we had, way before recruiting rankings and recruiting (over)analysis were a thing.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Clemson basketball has it's 3rd and 4th highest rated


Posted: Feb 17, 2020 7:00 PM
    Reply

Brownell is an even more boring and inconsistent coach than Tommy Bowden ... and a less talented recruiter.

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