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Topic: Basketball Recruiting Confusion
Replies: 48   Last Post: Feb 17, 2019 2:34 PM by: Judge Keller®
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Replies: 48  

Basketball Recruiting Confusion

[3]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:03 PM
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For those who say we need more talent on our roster, I agree. We have some good players, but we are middle of the pack at best in the ACC in terms of overall talent.

At the end of the day, if we want to recruit better, we have to continue to upgrade our facilities and give our coaches what they need to recruit at a high level. We currently do not (and no, the recent facility upgrades aren’t nearly enough).

When a 5 star recruit comes to our campus on an official visit, here is what they see:

-The stands half full for an ACC game
-A lack of banners and trophies for successful seasons past
-Nice facilities which are in the top 1/3rd to 1/2 of the ACC, but not elite

I don’t care who the coach is, or how great of a recruiter he might be. It’s going to be really, really hard, if not impossible, to sign that recruit when he can go to a school that packs its arena for games, has elite facilities, and has a reputation for basketball success.

Right now, we are a football school with a reputation for lackluster concern for basketball. This is not a coaching problem, but an athletic department problem.

If we want to recruit better, and thus win more, we must address the above.

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:06 PM
    Reply

We should upgrade Littlejohn.

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Photobucket is holding my sig pic hostage. Screw them.


I’m trying to remember your last substantive post.***

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:18 PM
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2019 white level member

Re: I’m trying to remember your last substantive post.***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:21 PM
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Look at you. How precious.
You’re the one bringing up that our facilities are not elite. You mentioned it twice. I was just agreeing with you. My mistake.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Photobucket is holding my sig pic hostage. Screw them.


My mistake, I thought you were being sarcastic since we recently did that.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:31 PM
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What improvements would you like to see made to Littlejohn?

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:19 PM
    Reply

Upgrade Littlejohn!? LOL! Duh!


lol***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:30 PM
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Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 8:22 AM
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We should upgrade Littlejohn.



Just like football, if you want a great team at a place which has not had a great team in a bunch of years you have to invest. Whineing in message boards or firing the coach will only set us back


Watch an NBA game then watch us play. See if you can figure out why 5 stars not coming.***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:17 PM
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Because our offense is tailored to the personnel we have.

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:19 PM
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That is why our team is competitive every year despite being at a talent deficit.

2019 white level member

I don’t believe that bs so Im sure not many recruits do either.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:28 PM
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Ever wonder why we are wru. The 5 stars going to nfl is expected. Its the 3 stars that are going thst is eye opening.


We are WRU because we have the best facilities and best coaching staff in the country.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:33 PM
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Give Brad the best facilities and budget for the highest paid assistants in the country and let’s see how well we recruit. I guarantee we would sign at least a top 20 class every year.

2019 white level member

Do we need top facilities to recruit hunter renfrow, adam humphries, mike williams, etc


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:46 PM
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I could keep listing non 4 and 5 stars that are in the nfl. Brownell takes 4 stars and turns them into 2 stars in nba eyes. Maybe he should try to coach up the recruits he gets. Here is the problem he can’t.


You really don’t get it, do you?***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:03 PM
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2019 white level member

no I don’t get it


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:31 PM
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Maybe you can teach me how to enjoy almost winning. Then teach me how to enjoy watching talented kids from our state help other teams win. Thanks in advance looking forward to enjoying clemson basketball again.


Can you please give us a description


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 5:42 PM
    Reply

of exactly what kind of facilities Brownell needs before we start winning?

2019 white level member

Well, last year we made the Sweet 16.


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 2:25 PM
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I consider that winning. In case you missed it, we've only done that a few other times:

-1980, Elite Eight (our best season ever in terms of advancing deep into the NCAAs)
-1990, Sweet 16 (since vacated due to NCAA sanctions)
-1997, Sweet 16

This year hasn't gone like we wanted it to, but it isn't over yet. I choose to let the season play out before calling it a failure and demanding that our coach be fired.

But back to your question. I do think the current facilities are helping. Our 2019 recruiting class is ranked #34 nationally, Brownell's best so far. We've also been in final consideration for several 5 star McDonald's All-Americans recently, including Zion Williamson (2018), Josiah James (2019), and Anthony Edwards (2019), all of whom we narrowly missed out on. No moral victories here, but actually being considered by blue chip talent is a step in the right direction since we weren't ever in that position under Barnes, Shyatt, or Purnell.

Also for 2019, we are still in the final group for 5-star Christian Brown. I don't expect him to sign with us, but who knows?

Facility upgrades should be a continual goal, not a one-time thing that happens once every 10-15 years. We continue to improve our football facilities. We didn't stop with the WEZ, or even the indoor facility. We obviously won't spend that kind of money on basketball at Clemson, but I'm sure there are more additions and enhancements we can make to get our facilities to top 1/3rd-1/2 of the ACC and into the nation's elite - assuming we are serious about basketball.

2019 white level member

Re: I don’t believe that bs so Im sure not many recruits do either.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:48 PM
    Reply

Ever wonder how we got to be WRU? Some coach who can connect with recruits and sell Clemson without the need for fancy buildings and banners. I get Dabo is a one and a million but he brought CJ, Sammy, Nuk, etc... here way before any fancy complex and certainly before banners.

We either accept we have Tommy Bowden coaching basketball and compete with limited success or we take a risk on a new coach and hope he pans out. Either way this coach isn’t going to get us over the hump.


Re: Because our offense is tailored to the personnel we have.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 11:15 PM
    Reply

We are competitive bc we okay great defense and it keeps us in a lot of games and I will give BB all the credit there... but you HAVE to be able to score the basketball especially late and put pressure on teams and we just haven’t had that in a long time , Stitt was pretty dang good but other than him reed is pretty good until the big moment then not so much. I think he needs to tailor his recruiting to a little more offense and he would be fine like I said in another post defense is mostly effort and if he’s that good of an x and o coach my he can get kids playing decent defense...8+ years you don’t “tailor” an offense he recruited these guys he watched them play and knew what they were and thought defensively they fit in his system , he doesn’t care about offense and it’s painfully obvious...


Re: Because our offense is tailored to the personnel we have.


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 4:40 AM
    Reply

I agree about more offensive minded recruiting. Gabe DeVoe wasnt that highly touted as a recruit but was a scorer. HE got us to the Sweet 16. It took him time to develop,thus the low rating, but he had a scorer's mentality and ability.


I don't disagree.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:22 PM
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In fact, I've been saying pretty much the same thing for years. Of course this is not all Brownell&s fault, but he doesn't get a pass either. He is inextricably tied to the mediocrity that has been his tenure at Clemson. It may not be fair, but it's the way it is.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I’m not giving Brad a pass. He’s ultimately responsible.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:30 PM
    Reply

It’s just overly simplistic and ignorant of our fans to act like Brownell must be a bad recruiter, despite the fact that he has to scratch and claw for anything he gets from our administration.

No coach in our history has ever recruited well at Clemson. That is why we either fire our coaches, or they have limited success here and bail before the talent dropoff is evident (check our year two for Shyatt and Brownell to see how bare the cupboard was left by Barnes and Purnell).

Just once, I’d love to see how we do with consistent support for basketball from the administration and fans.

2019 white level member

Like I said below, we'll be better when we decide to be


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:35 PM
    Reply

better. In spite of the history, there is no reason it can't be done.

2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Dabo had to scratch and claw for years...

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:37 PM
    Reply

but he didn’t sit around complaining. He always made the best of what he had.

2019 white level member

Funny, while Dabo was scratching and clawing


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 2:27 PM
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people said he wasn't a good coach and many wanted him fired. But then he got the facilities, assistant coaches, and support staff he wanted, and now he's a genius and the best coach in America.

Funny how perceptions change over time.

P.S. Brownell isn't sitting around complaining either, and he has a lot more he could complain about than Dabo ever did.

2019 white level member

Re: I’m not giving Brad a pass. He’s ultimately responsible.


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 8:04 AM
    Reply


It’s just overly simplistic and ignorant of our fans to act like Brownell must be a bad recruiter, despite the fact that he has to scratch and claw for anything he gets from our administration.

No coach in our history has ever recruited well at Clemson. That is why we either fire our coaches, or they have limited success here and bail before the talent dropoff is evident (check our year two for Shyatt and Brownell to see how bare the cupboard was left by Barnes and Purnell).

Just once, I’d love to see how we do with consistent support for basketball from the administration and fans.

Shyatt was in Barnes staff all but 1 year. So if team was bare he was a part of it.


I agree.


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 2:29 PM
    Reply

But the reality is that Barnes didn't recruit that well in terms of going out and getting 4 and 5 star players. He hit on Buckner and McIntyre, which is to his credit for finding them and signing them, translated that into 3 straight NCAA Tournament appearances, and left while he was a hot commodity - before his recruiting failures became apparent.

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:23 PM
    Reply

Ok judge, Alabama basketball, Georgia basketball, Virginia tech basketball. Just stop please


I don’t understand the point of your examples.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:37 PM
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All of those schools support basketball better than Clemson does, have better basketball histories than Clemson does, and are in states with better basketball talent than Clemson is.

2019 white level member

Re: I don’t understand the point of your examples.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:42 PM
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Everything u just said is wrong


Re: I don’t understand the point of your examples.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:42 PM
    Reply

Except Virginia has better talent than scar all the time


Re: I don’t understand the point of your examples.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:44 PM
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These are also schools that we have beaten recently in basketball two of them this year, yet they land the big boys?? How???


Re: I don’t understand the point of your examples.

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:22 PM
    Reply

https://sports.yahoo.com/nike-schools-pay-federal-court-docs-allude-corruption-involving-flagship-nike-basketball-programs-212410675.html

Stuff like this plays a big part of the landscape of basketball.


Message removed by Author


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:44 PM
    Reply

Message removed by Author

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Duke has excellent facilities.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:06 PM
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Have you seen their practice facility? Recruiting area? Duke basketball gets whatever it wants from the Duke administration.

Plus, although Cameron Indoor itself is an old building, it has history and charm like the Boston Garden did. And it’s a great environment, packed with loud fans who care.

Bad example.

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 3:48 PM
    Reply

If the AD and BOT saw a passionate fan base like football instead of a bunch of whining crybabies they would take care of that for you. So while many think staying away is how you speak loud it’s actually the opposite.


Respectfully, I disagree


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:07 PM
    Reply

Doesn't always take 5 star players to be successful if you can coach, motivate and develop your
players- which Coach hasn't been successful at either.
#21


I think he has developed his players very well.


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:27 PM
    Reply

Based on recruiting rankings, we should finish near the bottom of the ACC, not middle of the pack or better as we usually do under Brownell.

You can’t say he’s a bad recruiter and a bad coach. If he were both, we wouldn’t win way more games than we lose each year. We also wouldn’t have had the season last year we did.

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:12 PM
    Reply

Excuse me but are you suggesting that we need to buy fake trophies and put them on display? Have you seen Dukes facilities? I don’t know why we can’t get better players maybe because the ACC is so strong but we just spent millions updating the basketball arena ... I agree the empty stadium is horrible but I think Clemson fans are worn out with watching the same old thing. And let’s face it the tickets have gotten more expensive and the game result are the same!


That’s the problem. Most of our fans think the new facilities


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:29 PM
    Reply

are the most amazing in basketball, and should produce immediate recruiting success and wins. When that doesn’t happen, our fans conclude that Brownell must stink.

There is a lot more to it than that.

2019 white level member

Okay Brad***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:32 PM
    Reply



2019 white level member

Re: Okay Brad***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:45 PM
    Reply

Fans will Support an exciting team, not
one like they saw today Who basically showed
no emotion until the last minute of the game.

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:53 PM
    Reply

The success of the WBB team isn't really helping Brad out this season.

They have the same facilities, recruiting for WBB hasn't been great. Support for WBB hasn't been great.

Fans see what Coach Butler is doing and draw a conclusion to the men's team that something isn't working.

I like Coach Brownell. I think he's a good fit for Clemson. Seems like he wants to be here and make a change.

The Miami game really hurt. They were a lesser team and should've been able to pull that out.

The men's team is playing higher ranked teams close, so that shows he can coach. Losses within the last 10 seconds always make you think if this was different or if that was different Clemson would've won. It's easy to blame the loss on Brad's coaching when it's close. It's also easy to say Brad's coaching put them in a position at the end to win it.

Zion would've helped a bit if he had signed for a season.

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Sounds like a description of SC football***


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 4:54 PM
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Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 16, 2019 5:05 PM
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Our football team was a top 20-30 team for years before Dabo. No reason that a coach cannot turn a top 50 basketball team to a top 15. Now we will probably never consistently fill the stands on weekday games no matter what our record is because Clemson is not a larger city like some school. We currently have the talent to hang with most top teams we just don't know how to close. We need a coach to teach our boys imo. I like BB and maybe we turn it around but as a fan it's hard to take Ls like this when I care so much. After so many I feel it may be time for a change. More than just the coach like you say but a coach alone can get recruits and make a team better.


Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion

[1]
Posted: Feb 16, 2019 10:57 PM
    Reply

I agree. All the talk about facilities, fans, and banners. Players come to Duke because of Coach K. Duke wins because of Coach K. Look at how Duke has played without Coach K and how North Carolina played and recruited under Coach Peterson and the coach before him. In basketball, it's about the coach, the coach, and the coach.


Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 12:48 PM
    Reply

Is Bobby Knight still kicking?


I'm not really sure what that has to do with Clemson.


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 2:34 PM
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Coach K has been Duke's coach since 1980. He is arguably the best college basketball coach ever, with multiple national titles, conference titles, Olympic medals, etc. Of course recruits want to play for him.

How do you propose we get a coach like that? We will either have to hire him and be patient (as Duke was with Coach K) while he turns into that kind of coach, and KEEP HIM, or hire that guy after he's been that successful elsewhere.

2019 white level member

Re: Basketball Recruiting Confusion


Posted: Feb 17, 2019 12:52 PM
    Reply

I think I can help with problem no 2. I know of a school that can guide us to getting 5th place trophies and banners. Maybe the recruits won't notice.


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