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Orange Blooded [4005]
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7 trillion...
Sep 18, 2020, 8:18 AM
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is how much the national debt has grown under Trump in just under 4 years. I thought the business man was going to fix this. I thought it was the democrats who like to throw a bunch of money at problems.
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Oculus Spirit [97656]
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And it will go up more under Biden.
Sep 18, 2020, 8:21 AM
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And it went up more under Obama than Bush. More under Bush than Clinton. Covid threw a kink in it though.
If you can't fix a problem let it go until it fixes itself.
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Legend [19590]
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Sorry Tiggity, accidentally hit the TD while clicking on TU.***
Sep 18, 2020, 9:21 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97656]
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NP. I run on coffee, not points
Sep 18, 2020, 10:38 AM
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All-TigerNet [11623]
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Re: 7 trillion...
Sep 18, 2020, 8:24 AM
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Good thing he didn't let the Dems pass that second $3 Trillion stimulus, otherwise you'd really be complaining.
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110%er [5641]
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Re: 7 trillion...
Sep 18, 2020, 9:38 AM
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There is no fix as long as the democrats version of campaigning is to promise free everything, then hold the nation hostage to gov't shutdown until 80% of the BS they want gets into the bill.
Let's hear your prediction and rationale as to how the deficit will decrease under Biden?
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: 7 trillion...
Sep 18, 2020, 9:47 AM
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So was it a lie when Trump promised ge could fix this and it would be easy? And LOL at how those who bashed Obama for deficits are willing to look the other way and give the business man a pass. WEAK.
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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I haven't seen anyone give anyone a pass.
Sep 18, 2020, 9:51 AM
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I know that doesn't fit your narrative, but no president, or really any congress, should get any pass on this ridiculousness.
I hope I don't live long enough to live through what happens when we default, but maybe you and your kids probably will. So you might want to start doing something about it other than complaining. Like finding a bunker somewhere and learning how to farm, and hoarding ammo, guns and TP.
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone give anyone a pass.
Sep 18, 2020, 9:59 AM
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LOL. I'm holding Trump and his base accountable for all the years of bashing Obama for deficits , yet giving the businessman a pass for record setting debts. Why doesn't the business man get held to the same standard as Barack?
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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The best I can do is complain about it.
Sep 18, 2020, 10:03 AM
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I mention it often in here, as I did with Obama, and Bush before him.
What would you like anyone else to do?
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: The best I can do is complain about it.
Sep 18, 2020, 10:13 AM
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You keep responding to me without answering my question. Why is the business man not held to the same standard as BO when it comes to debts and deficits? He promised he would fix this.
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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How is he not held to the same standard?
Sep 18, 2020, 10:24 AM
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What standard is that? I don't know anyone who like the ever ballooning debt.
If you've read anything in here for more than 15 minutes, you've seen several people (me, Tiggity®, Catahoula, flow0440) complain about it. That's about the same amount of people who complained about Obama's debts, too.
No one cares about the debt yet because it hasn't materially affected them--yet. When they do start causing an issue, and they will, whoever is president at the time will be erroneously blamed for it.
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: How is he not held to the same standard?
Sep 18, 2020, 10:29 AM
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sounds like you should have just said "I agree with the OP". I'm glad that's cleared up. Cheers.
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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I'm not sure what you were looking for by posting the OP
Sep 18, 2020, 10:36 AM
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was my point all along.
No one likes debt. Crying about it won't fix it. All presidents in the last 50 or so years are equally guilty of making it larger.
But you want Trump to be spotlighted because he has also made the debt larger. Why?
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: I'm not sure what you were looking for by posting the OP
Sep 18, 2020, 10:47 AM
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Again, I glad we agree. Trump is being spotlighted because he was touted ss a business man who said he was going to fix this. He and his flock also held Obama accountable for his addition to the National debt. I haven't seen Trump make any attempt to fix our debt issues. Do you agree or disagree?
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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I havne't seen any president attempt to fix the debt.
Sep 18, 2020, 11:48 AM
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Noone will get elected saying that they are going to lower entitlements, spending, and raise taxes.
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Legend [17754]
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Re: I havne't seen any president attempt to fix the debt.
Sep 18, 2020, 4:35 PM
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And when they say there will be "no new taxes" while campaigning and then there are "new taxes" during their term.. they are likely one and done. RIP H.W.
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Oculus Spirit [97656]
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It's a problem we can't fix, and as such, we will ride it
Sep 18, 2020, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to How is he not held to the same standard? ] |
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until we can't fix it. It's actually been a bipartisan plan, legislated into existence and perpetuated for decades. See, by allowing illegal immigrants with a wink and a nod, prices for domestic labor can be kept low, and interest rates can be kept low, so Congress can then spend debt to buy votes. Same for free trade. Allow American manufacturing and blue collar jobs to disappear, replace domestically manufactured goods with imported goods made with cheaper labor overseas, you create deflationary prices on those goods as well. Hence you can lower interest rates some more, and take on more debt buying more votes.
Sorry, but this is what it all boils down to, and you can't blame any party, as they both are in general agreement on this. Furthermore, we have such a high debt load that 5% inflation or 8% inflation would absolutely collapse our economy. Worse, it would collapse the solvency of our federal government. We can't balance a budget as it is, with a 1% federal funds rate which means we pay $400+ billion just to service our debt load at that miniscule rate of 1%. If that rate were to rise to 5%, you can just take that $400 billion and multiply it by 5, so you get $2 trillion to spend, on top of our existing deficit, and debt, just to pay the minimum payment on our national credit card. And guess what? That $2 trillion just gets tacked onto the $trillion or more yearly deficit.
It's a helluva corner we've painted ourselves into, and people know this. No politician has ever explained what I just wrote. From either "party". And none ever will. Just like none (in political power) will ever be truthful about covid, another problem. I abhor people who dodge problems. I always confront problems head on. Just how I roll.
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Hall of Famer [24682]
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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Our largest creditors
Sep 18, 2020, 2:45 PM
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Japan, Canada, China, Saudi, and more importantly, US citizens.
When we can no longer pay the interest on our debts...we are bankrupt. And just like the Weimar republic, this is what our dollar would be worth:
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Hall of Famer [24682]
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Have you considered The World Bank or the IMF...?
Sep 18, 2020, 10:07 PM
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Who do you think has been enforcing their policy for the last half century? Don't ignore the unspoken.
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All-In [47663]
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30 posts since 12/9/2001 and you send this?
Sep 18, 2020, 10:30 AM
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Get a grip dood
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: 30 posts since 12/9/2001 and you send this?
Sep 18, 2020, 10:41 AM
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I would be interested in your thoughts if you disagree with the OP.
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All-In [40872]
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Hillery would have slashed the deficit
Sep 18, 2020, 10:43 AM
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Biden will cut spending and raise taxes and save us all
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Oculus Spirit [97656]
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I'd like to replace my prior long winded comments
Sep 18, 2020, 10:45 AM
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with the easiest one to make. The President doesn't spend a freaking penny that Congress doesn't first allocate and approve. He "spends" only whatever is in bills Congress gives him to sign. Congress decided what to spend, and how much, and on what, and for what purpose. This is why Congress has an approval rating between 13-20% for decades while the President, even TRUMP, has a 40% approval rating. Spending $2 trillion on covid checks only bought Congress up to 31% approval, then it tanked back to the 20's again. And we take their money, and then hate them for it. And I say "their" money in the purest sense. Our money is $4 trillion a year. Our yearly deficit is "their" money, which is actually our children and grandchildren's money.
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Heisman Winner [111321]
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Re: I'd like to replace my prior long winded comments
Sep 18, 2020, 10:50 AM
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you are smart enough to know that you we not cut mandatory spending without tanking the economy, right? We live on Debt.
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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And you are smart enough to know that can't continue in
Sep 18, 2020, 11:49 AM
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perpetuity, right?
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Oculus Spirit [97656]
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The government doesn't have a penny to spend (BUT debt) that
Sep 18, 2020, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'd like to replace my prior long winded comments ] |
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it doesn't first extract from the economy. To think the economy is dependent on the government is BS, EXCEPT (wink) with debt spending. It's the government that is actually dependent on the economy. Debt spending is the net plus to the economy from the government. Beyond infrastructure, national security, and other important things the government does with money from the economy. And even then, it will have to be extracted later from our children.
This is why we have a debt problem. Debt spending can be pure manipulation and can create dependency whereas tax revenues alone can not. The net plus to our GDP from government spending is the amount of debt we spend. Tax revenue comes from the GDP and as such is technically neutral as that money then goes back into the economy as it is redistributed. DEBT, however, is pure economic fuel, added to the GDP, and most importantly, has not been exchanged for labor. It's crack for politicians in Congress. And we buy it up like crack too.
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Heisman Winner [111321]
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Re: The government doesn't have a penny to spend (BUT debt) that
Sep 18, 2020, 1:28 PM
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The fed is a private corporation. By Law, we do not owe them a penny. Congress can reissue Treasury Notes in any form of currency it so chooses, debt and interest free. We are too stupid to understand that the real value of our economy is natural resources and labor capacity, not fictional wealth.
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Oculus Spirit [97656]
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Who says we owe the fed anything?
Sep 18, 2020, 2:04 PM
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The fed is simply a tool the government uses (ostensibly "private") to mitigate inflation so the government and private sector can then issue more debt. Not the original intent of the Fed, but functionally today that's their mission. We DO OWE the federal government $27 trillion. It won't be long before those securities are as toxic as bad mortgages.
And if you really dig into the federal reserve's bailout of the financial sector in 2008, which was hidden from disclosure until Dodd-Frank forced SOME accounting of how it was done, you would see the federal reserve handled 2008 in the same manner Enron handled corporate losses. EXACTLY the same mechanisms used, but on a much larger scale. Ken Lay and numerous accountants went to jail in the late 90's for doing exactly what the federal reserve did in 2008. Enron farmed off debt to shell companies to keep their profitability and stock prices up. They did this through off balance sheet transactions. Exactly what the federal reserve is doing now. It's nothing new.
And what's interesting about the 2008 Fed disclosure on their bailout mechanisms, is even though they disclosed the (previously illegal) way they handled it, they failed to account for repayment of those debts. They described exactly what they did to remove the debt from the corporate books, to preserve the financial sector, but they failed to account for the repayment. They just simply said it was repaid. Several trillion dollars, from a few dozen companies was simply repaid. Poof. All fixed.
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Hall of Famer [24682]
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And those bankers sat in Congress and just smiled...
Sep 18, 2020, 10:14 PM
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Strung up by their Buckeyes would have been more appropriate...Cons for the cons...
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: I'd like to replace my prior long winded comments
Sep 18, 2020, 10:52 AM
[ in reply to I'd like to replace my prior long winded comments ] |
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Someone should explain this to the business man
"Obama is the most profligate deficit & debt spender in our nation’s history. Doubled debt http://bit.ly/18S8kWG Still won't cut a penny f/budget." -Donald Trump 10-3-2013
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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He wasn't wrong***
Sep 18, 2020, 11:50 AM
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Hall of Famer [24682]
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The Fed created that money to cover the banks...not Obama.
Sep 18, 2020, 12:07 PM
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The same is true for T-Rump.
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Oculus Spirit [80977]
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Your point?
Sep 18, 2020, 2:49 PM
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Trump wasn't wrong in the tweet.
Obama's presidency is responsible for the largest debt increase in our nations history.
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: Your point?
Sep 18, 2020, 5:56 PM
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For 8 years yes. But the business man is now blowing Obama out of the water for debt accumulated for a 4 year term. Can you imagine what the number is going to be if he gets reelected?
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Hall of Famer [24682]
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I guess you're too stupid to understand what I posted.***
Sep 18, 2020, 10:17 PM
[ in reply to Your point? ] |
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110%er [8885]
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Re: 7 trillion...
Sep 18, 2020, 10:57 AM
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last budget signed in '09
lots of blame to go around
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: 7 trillion...
Sep 18, 2020, 1:21 PM
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It warms my heart to see that conservatives have come to the realization that the national debt cannot be blamed on just one side. It goes against the narrative we had when Obama was in office, but it is what it is.
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All-In [26468]
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It is weird seeing folks on the left
Sep 18, 2020, 2:38 PM
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Penny pinching
Pretty sure congress does the spending which is comprised mostly of Dems
Next.
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Hall of Famer [24682]
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I believe McConnell would shelve it to differ...***
Sep 18, 2020, 10:19 PM
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Orange Blooded [4005]
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Re: It is weird seeing folks on the left
Sep 18, 2020, 11:28 PM
[ in reply to It is weird seeing folks on the left ] |
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My how we have moved the goalposts since Obama was in office. LOL
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