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110%er [6224]
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This situation with the Dolphins is bizarre
Nov 4, 2013, 9:41 AM
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There is no place, in my opinion, for stuff like this to go on in sports. The whole hazing thing is downright stupid. They are your teammates for crying out loud.
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Commissioner [955]
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No place in sports, and definitely no place in a job.
Nov 4, 2013, 9:52 AM
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At the end of the day, these are all grown men working for an organization. I know teams and other groups have ways to initiate new members to create a bond, and I'm cool with that, but when it goes over the line and creates a divide, that's when you've got a problem.
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CU Medallion [67693]
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Re: No place in sports, and definitely no place in a job.
Nov 4, 2013, 10:00 AM
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yes I was shocked sounds like Jr High or High School stuff and it is silly even then.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Hazing is a tradition and perfectly fine. It would still be
Nov 4, 2013, 10:03 AM
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intense in the military if not for girls and gays. It builds bonds and unity. It toughens you up.
What was going on in Miami sounds like more than hazing. Therein lies the problem.
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All-In [29036]
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I disagree about the "perfectly fine" portion
Nov 4, 2013, 10:15 AM
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Of course, I also disagree about the list of things that have come to be called hazing. Some of the things on lists of "hazing" reports ammount to shared common experiences of that environment (example for college: "drinking games", "sleep deprivation", etc).
But things that truly do rise to the level of real hazing may build unity, but they do so by removing the members unwilling to go through the hazing. There is a line of reasoning that argues the organization/group as a whole is actually weaker by removing individuals who may well benefit the group, but are unwilling to endure actual hazing.
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Reminds me of some college fraterities....
Nov 4, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Back in the day most all fraternities practiced some form of hazing. Although sometimes slightly humiliating or embarrassing, most of it was fairly benign and harmless.
However, occasionally, you'd run across some moral defective with a major small man complex who would take things to an extreme by forcing pledges to do things that could be considered abusive; either physically dangerous or downright degrading.
The fact that this appears to have been instigated by Richie Incognito should not come as a surprise to anyone. The guy is a career a$$hat.
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Asst Coach [724]
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Shouldn't Martin have just stood up to him like a man though
Nov 4, 2013, 10:11 AM
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I mean he's a 300 pound man that is crying about being bullied. I don't at all agree with hazing/bullying that goes over the top but if I'm Martin I stand up to him in the lunch room and beat the sh!t out of him. This shows everyone that you have a tough side and as a coach you prob don't mind someone standing up to himself. The situation would have dissolved right there and then. Quitting on your team is no way to handle this situation in my opinion. Especially if he is blaming it all on this one guy. Now the entire league looks at you as weak and when he gets back on the field I can just imagine the stuff d-linemen are going to be saying to him. This isn't going to end well for either party and prob. will reflect on the rest of the dolphins season...
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Commissioner [955]
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My guess is there where multiple OL doing this.
Nov 4, 2013, 10:18 AM
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Had he stood up for himself, he was afraid he would get jumped by a group of 300+ lb linemen. I'm all for standing up for yourself, but sometimes it's a better decision to handle it professionally, especially when dealing with some of the thugs in that locker room
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Asst Coach [724]
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In all honesty, he never would be jumped by his teammates
Nov 4, 2013, 10:27 AM
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don't think in a bubble, think about if this happened when you were a senior in high school and you were messing with a freshman on the varsity team. Incognito is an a$$ but no matter how bad him or a senior were harassing a young, talented player, once that player stood up to him, the hazing would prob. stop because he would have learned the most important lesson of toughness. I doubt this harrassing was out of spite rather than just being a$$holes, so no one would be jumped. Again, not at all condoning the harassing, but just saying being a b!tch is not way to handle this situation. And if you believe this is some sort of gang up to really "give it" to this kid then you don't know how a locker room works. If it was in that much of a disarray, they wouldn't have been able to play together on the field and I'm 100% sure that Tannehill would put an end to any of that.
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Commissioner [955]
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Agree, but I remember being a freshman in HS
Nov 4, 2013, 10:31 AM
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and not knowing what to expect. Call me soft if you want, but anytime you're a new, young guy and you've got some big, a$$holes trying stuff, you never know what to expect. Also, I feel like it was more than just simple hazing. Money was involved which always can make things worse
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Rock Defender [53]
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Asst Coach [724]
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still soft...new school thinking has taken over***
Nov 4, 2013, 10:52 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Call it what you may, but we live in a different world
Nov 4, 2013, 10:58 AM
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today than we did 30 years ago.
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110%er [6224]
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not to mention he is not a rookie anymore
Nov 4, 2013, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Big difference though ] |
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this is his 2nd year. Not that I think that should make any difference. I think the initiation stuff is all BS. It proves nothing and brings nothing positive to the table.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [29036]
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Part of the problem in this
Nov 4, 2013, 10:21 AM
[ in reply to Shouldn't Martin have just stood up to him like a man though ] |
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Is that the hazing or whatever often serves to break down individuals who do have a weakness in that area. We hear things like "take it like a man" and "stand up for yourself (physically)", when in fact that is not the make up of a every person, and, IMO, is not even what I would call a universal ideal.
However, if he could play football. If he was good at what he did, and a value to the team, then the hazing (or whatever you want to call it) didn't make the team stronger at all. All it did was fracture a person who could contribute to the team.
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110%er [6224]
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And I am quite sure the Dolphins organization didn't
Nov 4, 2013, 10:58 AM
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approach drafting him with the "Well he seems like a great player...I just hope he can make it through Incognito's character building sessions".
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MVP [535]
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To a level
Nov 4, 2013, 10:20 AM
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I have no problem with rookies or freshman to do things for vets or pay for things but with that said there's is a difference between a nfl rookie paying for $200 dinner rather than a extravagant car payment, vacation, or house payment...sounds to me like some of these vets didn't save money and spent beyond their means and are now having rookies bail them out of financial troubles
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All-In [29036]
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Sure
Nov 4, 2013, 10:23 AM
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There is a pecking order in almost all organizations. These rituals that enforce that pecking order are not intrinsically wrong. It is when they go beyond that point, and move to breaking down the individuals on the bottom that they harm the organization.
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MVP [535]
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Honestly
Nov 4, 2013, 10:37 AM
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If I was knew to the league I would try to suck it up as best as I could but there would be a cracking point, I was a freshman who got called up to varsity after the 2nd week and things were hell for a while, you know carrying other guys helmets, pads, and other things that really werent bad just kind of showing that they're superior but once I started proving myself that type of thing went to guys who were older than me but on jv, I never did that to people as I became an upper classmen because I didn't think it really taught me anything just kind of a pain in my side for a while
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MVP [535]
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New****
Nov 4, 2013, 10:38 AM
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Legend [19911]
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