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Topic: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really
Replies: 62   Last Post: Jul 23, 2013 7:01 AM by: josephg®
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Replies: 62  

"soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:44 PM
 

Clowney coming in with head down face mask towards ground leading with and hitting with top/crown of helmet

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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:45 PM
 

http://www.wltx.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=214865

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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:50 PM
 
Clowney-6.jpg(54.4 K)

At time of impact still leading and hitting with TOP of helmet Face Mask Down

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

It's difficult to post pics using that function...

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:51 PM
 

and predict the order they'll come up on.

I guess it's time to post the pic on a host website and use that method of posting.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

LINK

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:54 PM
 

http://www.wltx.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=214865

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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[2]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:54 PM
 

That was a fantastic hit. Nothing wrong with it IMO.


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:55 PM
 

Hmmmm
other than if that same hit occurs this year he will be resting on the side line

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Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:02 PM
 

I sure hope not. There was nothing malicious about that hit, nor was it illegal in my opinion. I thought (and hope) that any ejections would be teh result of a dirty/intentional helmet to helmet hit.

If they remove players for hits like the one Clowney made in that bowl game, this game is taking a step backwards.


So youre saying that there are plenty of those hits???***


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 10:21 PM
 



2020 student level member

in my day it was called "spearing" , using your helmet as a


Posted: Jul 23, 2013 3:23 AM
 

weapon. to make a form tackle your head should be up.

military_donation.jpg

Point to where the crown of the helmet is please!

[2]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 1:58 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:00 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***

[3]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:06 PM
 

Cause you're special?

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Re: Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:06 PM
 

You sure I'm not "special"? :)

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: Also, why is my handle in quotation marks?***

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:27 PM
 

NO, I couldn't say but we'll camup and you can show me. :)

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: Point to where the crown of the helmet is please!


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:07 PM
 
Zoom-1.jpg(20.7 K)
Zoom-2.jpg(14.7 K)

TOP of
maybe this helps

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Re: Point to where the crown of the helmet is please!

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 4:05 PM
 

in the second pic the facemask is in his chest, not facing down. Clowney came up right before impact....

Hit was perfectly legal, take off the orange shades.

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you take off the maroon shades...his head is clearly down***


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 10:23 PM
 



2020 student level member

cockerel's did I ruffle your feathers

[2]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:00 PM
 

hard too deal with facts or reality

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Uh...no, and I'm no where close to a coot...

[2]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:02 PM
 
pernt.jpg(72.5 K)

See screenshot for awarded point, but thanks for being a #### about it.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


That's what I thought, appreciate you attacking me for


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:22 PM
 

having a differing opinion of a brutal hit...

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


I don't know but if I'm Vincent Smith....

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:02 PM
 

Ricky Barnum (52) and Partick Omameh (65) get a royal ###-whippin' after that play.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


I concur sspassport

[2]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:04 PM
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIu22jokKKk#t=0m50s

That angle shows it even better than your pics.

Head up at 51 seconds with face looking at handoff.
Head down at 52 seconds with crown of head burried in player's chest.





You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:06 PM
 

dips down for that split second as he's lowering his body, but you'll see immediately after impact it is his facemask in the guy's chest.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Look at Zoom Picture #2

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:09 PM
 

At time of impact/contact

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I really should stay out of this but the slow mo from...


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:10 PM
 

that angle may bring more light to this.

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Re: You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:10 PM
 

The point of a fundamental tackle is your head never dips down and you never lose sight of your target.

null


Which you can see, he never turns his head down, it's


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:11 PM
 

still in line with his spine...

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg2011_pickem_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-soccerkrzy.jpg

Cole @ Beach Cole w/ Clemson Hat


Re: Which you can see, he never turns his head down, it's


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:17 PM
 

Doesn't matter if it is inline with the spine. His facemask was pointed towards the ground meaning he can't see what he is hitting. If I am diving through the air my helmet is in perfect alignment with my spine. Doesn't mean I am looking at what is in front of me.

null


Both were caught off guard.

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:18 PM
 

The RB didn't have the ball long enough to gain full control before the hit and the defender didn't have time to lower his body.

The results is in the second photo. The initial contact was the crown of the DE's helmet and the bottom of the facemask along with the crown's forwardmost part in contact with the chest protector. The front of the defender's helmet did not play a part in the initial contact, just the crown.

It's almost impossible to see it in game speed and there's no way it should have been called illegal. I also wouldn't want a kid thrown out of a game for something he didn't do deliberately.

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If he was caught off guard why did he lower his helmet?


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:24 PM
 

Seems like I could agree that he might have been surprised if he ran around with his head down all the time and only raised it to make a tackle. But as shown in the first pic, his head is up and eyes can see what is about to transpire. Then his head is lowered as he knows he is going to make contact. I certainly can't state for sure he knew the impact was going to happen, but there is certainly enough visual evidence to presume it.


Perhaps he was just following his instinct.

[3]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:35 PM
 

Perhaps he just didn't want to belly up with a UM player. I've taken the middle road here because I really don't think he targeted though it's for certain that he led with the helmet.

I think the kid was doing his best to lower his body. He was just as stunned to see a path to the RB as the RB was to get the ball and see a WR crashing toward him. This certainly was a helmet to helmet but maliciousness wasn't evident to me.

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here is a link clarifying the rule

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:53 PM
 

http://www.tigernet.com/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=14096720�

Targeting is not necessary for a penalty. Only leading with the helmet (which you agree happened) is.


Re: You're looking at a snapshot of a split second. The head

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 3:19 PM
 

Eyes are on the ball which is why the ball ended up on the ground.


Honestly....


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:11 PM
 

the call could have gone either way. I've seen the play countless times and each time I see it, I have a different opinion. Clowney led with the crown but is was not helmet to helmet contact so it wasn't called.




2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


I don't think the rule says you have to raise your head up


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:21 PM
 

AFTER you drill the player with the crown of your helmet. I think the rule is to make sure your face is up at the time of impact. Clowney doesn't do that here - and while it might not have been clear live, it is completely obvious in the video I linked. It bewilders me how anyone could think otherwise, doesn't look subjective to me at all...


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:12 PM
 

The only reason people are trying to call this a dirty hit is because it was done by a South Carolina player. If this is a hit by someone on Clemson, nobody would ever bring this up and would defend this hit to the death if someone from another team claimed it was dirty.

You're making the rest of us look like whiny little babies by complaining about this hit. Just drop it.


ACC Chief/Head Ref

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:13 PM
 

"Rhoads was asked about South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney's hit on a Michigan player in the bowl game, and he said in his opinion that should have been an ejection, and that hits like that one will lead to ejections to this season."

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### shame he wasnt the ref at the game then.

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:17 PM
 

Hit was legal as deemed by the officials in January. No amount of nay saying and attempting to prove otherwise will change that fact. He didn't target the other player's head, and that's simply the basis of the call. The RB was not considered a defenseless player.

military_donation.jpg

Two different rules.


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:29 PM
 

Targeting a defenseless player is a new rule as of 5 or so years ago and brought down from the NFL to college.

Spearing is an old rule that has been around for a LONG time. It has been illegal to lead with the crown (top) of your helmet against any player, defenseless or not.


Just to clarify from the rule book

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:52 PM
 

2008 & Still Current (2008 NCAA Rulebook)

Initiating Contact/Targeting an Oppenent (sic)
1. No player shall initiate contact and target an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul.
2. No player shall initiate contact and target a defenseless opponent above the shoulders. When in question, it is a foul.

http://www.jonheck.com/hdc/penalties.htm


This is clearly a violation of part 1. He initiated contact with the top of his helmet. That's the entirety of the rule. It doesn't have to be on a certain type of player. It doesn't have to be on a certain part of the opponent's body. Top head meats opponent first - penalty.


Which I find absurd

[2]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:18 PM
 

We have folks here parsing split second images from 10 different angles, and still see it differently. I'm just not sure how you can eject someone for something like that. It is just going to be a huge guessing game, with way too much on the line.

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Re: Which I find absurd

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:25 PM
 

Exactly.

If a hit is going to warrant ejection, it needs to be (or should be) egregious and obvious. This hit was neither. As you mentioned, there are people showing freeze frames which capture less than 1/10 of a second...but that's not conclusive proof.

In my opinion, this fits that bill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9RfJwSkMU8

as does this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Y9wt3XkHo

The Clowney hit is nowhere near the level of those two in terms of hitting a defenseless player and leading in with your head. The fact that it was such a big hit was because he's a legitimate monster.


You really think THOSE refs could make that call?

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 4:49 PM
 

So the folks dissecting this in slow motion from all kinds of angles to prove their point, are implying that the same refs who said the measurement in the photo linked below was a 1st down should have been able to see Clowney's hit was illegal. That 1st down blown call came right before the "hit" btw.

Bottom line is that Clowney's hit was a "fantastic looking" play. I guess some ref could have called it spearing with the benefit of slo-mo from lots of angles. Maybe there are some other angles of this first down call to dissect to prove it was really a first down. :)

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/refs-blind-no-really-outback-bowl-officials-terrible-212632820--ncaaf.html


Re: You really think THOSE refs could make that call?


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 5:33 PM
 

That was one of the worst missed-calls I've ever seen, and it would have been a pretty big deal had Clowney not done what he did on the following play.


Re: ACC Chief/Head Ref

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:18 PM
 

Yea I actually just saw that thread. I had missed it prior to now.

I think that would be a horrible call if that's what they are planning on doing.


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:20 PM
 

^^^^^This guy get's it!!! Thank you!


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:23 PM
 

Sorry, was trying to reply to tmac9wr's first post.


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:26 PM
 

Thanks!


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 2:27 PM
 

Just get tired of posts like this. Makes us look pathetic.


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 3:32 PM
 

Thanks Carter. This whole string makes me want to puke. I was hoping someone would finally say ENOUGH. Some of us are actually whinning about a big hit. If the team has this attitude, it will be five.


Watch the slow motion from GamecocksOnline


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 3:14 PM
 

It's obvious

2020 student level member

At least Clowney doesn't have a brain to injure.***


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 3:19 PM
 




Re: Watch the slow motion from GamecocksOnline


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 3:23 PM
 

If you have to watch the play in slow motion to see what went wrong, it's not obvious enough for an ejection in my opinion.


Why don't we just put dresses on 'em.

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 4:19 PM
 

nm


You think Clowney would look good in a dress?***

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 5:29 PM
 




Hey, they'd match cocky.***

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 6:28 PM
 



2020 student level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

There's something in these hills.


My understanding is you wear dresses on weekends.


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 8:23 PM
 

You know, when the cross-dressing occurs. Guess that explains your affinity towards them.


rather see the illegal hit on Tajh***


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 5:52 PM
 




Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 8:29 PM
 

The hit was not illegal. It's unfortunate that the game is coming to this.


Re: "soccerkrzy®" Legal, Really


Posted: Jul 22, 2013 8:49 PM
 

I really don't care either way, about this call, it was LAST year. What I'm concerned about is when we have a DB miss a game this year because a WR gets his bell rung. Oh, and by the way, cLowney is 6'6" tall and the back is 5'7", not sure how anyone can judge contact point at full speed.


RationalGC might take time to read

[1]
Posted: Jul 22, 2013 9:04 PM
 

http://www.tigernet.com/update/football/Clowney-hit-receive-ejection-year-ACC-official-11681

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Legal or not, no way they call that so close to line


Posted: Jul 23, 2013 7:01 AM
 

of scrimmage. It's a reaction play.

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