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Legend [16900]
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Academic Common Market (ACM) Reality
Jun 18, 2019, 10:31 AM
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Rarely does something so insignificant become so overblown. I decided to do some real homework while everyone hyperventilates about Vanderbilt’s impending domination of college sports.
First, I used eligible schools and program information directly from the ACM website: https://www.sreb.org/academic-common-market. I used rosters from the the individual schools’ websites of the CWS participants. Here is what I found:
Louisville - Louisville has 4 out of state players from ACM participant states. 2 of those are from Florida which has 0 eligible programs. The other 2, 1 from TN and 1 from Mississippi, have ineligible declared majors. So 0 players using ACM.
Auburn - 12 out of state players from ACM states. Auburn also only allows participation in ACM by Juniors and above. 3 from TX which has no eligible programs at Auburn. 9 players are from GA. 5 are ineligible by class rank. 2 are ineligible by declared major. 2 are possible candidates for ACM.
Vanderbilt - Vanderbilt does not participate in ACM (so much for that theory huh?). Their expenses are the same in state or out. 0 players.
Arkansas - 14 out of state players from ACM states. 9 from Texas which has 0 eligible undergrad programs at Arkansas. 1 each from FL and AL which also have 0 eligible undergrad programs at Arkansas. 1 player from Oklahoma with an ineligible declared major. 2 from TN. 1 with an ineligible major. If Carter Sells (listed as undeclared) is majoring in American Sign Language then he is eligible - so 1 possible candidate for ACM.
FSU - does not participate at the undergrad level. 0 players.
Michigan - not an ACM member state. 0 players.
Texas Tech - 3 out of state players from ACM states. 2 from GA and 1 from OK - none of which have an eligible program at Texas Tech. 0 players.
Miss St - 11 players from ACM states. 3 from Alabama 2 of which ineligible majors. 1 undeclared could be possible. 1 possible ACM from GA. 7 from TX, FL, LA, and TN combined all either without eligible programs or in ineligible majors. So 2 possible candidates.
So, of the roughly 320 players on rosters of CWS teams, 5 players are possibly eligible for out of state tuition via the ACM on only 3 of 8 teams. I’m sure that won’t slow down the breathless hysteria or stop the excuse making.
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: Academic Common Market (ACM) Reality
Jun 18, 2019, 11:19 AM
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once again vizcoot has got all the answers. 1st and 2nd round draft choices turn down big money just to go to vandy and play in the great facility hooked up to the football stadium. the source that mickey used yesterday from pro baseball was lying or better yet mickey just made all the info up. why would fsu need the acm. they recruit all their players from florida. why not preface all your comments vizcoot by letting everyone know your hatred for coach lee. and just continue preaching that we are on the same playing field as every other program. the collyer kid decommitted from us because bama could offer more money was just a coincidence. and the recruit we offered 80% going to vandy because they offered 100% is just another lie.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Academic Common Market (ACM) Reality
Jun 18, 2019, 11:35 AM
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I’m providing sources so you can check them yourself. You choose to believe hyperbole, 2nd hand gossip, and only believe what confirms your bias. You are literally arguing with facts. Please feel free to dispute them with other facts. The source for everything you’re saying told you 7/8 CWS teams use the ACM and that was demonstrably false. It says a lot about you that choose to double down on it and ignore facts.
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110%er [7448]
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Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 11:44 AM
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their endowment where they can channel more $ for academic scholarhips that make-up for the tuition gap from baseball school $. Stanford does this and I believe UVA uses this method quite a bit as well. I'm sure there are others that do and do it quite well.
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CU Guru [1891]
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So does Clemson offer academic
Jun 18, 2019, 11:49 AM
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scholarships to good baseball players?
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: So does Clemson offer academic
Jun 18, 2019, 11:56 AM
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i am sure some get some academic money since i believe they had the highest apr of any program.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: So does Clemson offer academic
Jun 18, 2019, 12:01 PM
[ in reply to So does Clemson offer academic ] |
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Clemson has a number of academic scholarships triggered by objective criteria. i.e. a certain SAT score and class rank equals a fixed amount or out of state tuition waiver. Scholarship athletes are eligible for these, though they will combine with any athletic award against the sports scholarship limit. Awards with subjective criteria like interviews and essays are, to my knowledge, not available to students who accept athletic scholarships - i.e. Clemson's National Scholar program. However, if an athlete somehow qualified for one of those elite academic awards they could decline the athletic scholarship and take the larger award. I am not certain whether awards of this type would count against team limits - I doubt it comes up often if at all.
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Orange Blooded [2862]
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Re: So does Clemson offer academic
Jun 18, 2019, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to So does Clemson offer academic ] |
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Vandy players aren't getting academic scholarships. They get grants from its endowment that are available to all students if their family's financial situation falls below a certain threshold. That pretty much gives all Vandy players a full ride.
Hard to compete with that.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: So does Clemson offer academic
Jun 18, 2019, 12:14 PM
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That's pure conjecture. The aid is on a sliding scale. It kicks in below $60,000 household income per year. There is a calculator on their website if you care to play around with it and assets including home equity effect the amount of aid. Baseball is an increasingly upper middle class sport in this country. There are numerous articles on the topic available with a quick search. I have posted some in the past. It is very unlikely that all Vandy players have a full ride. And, if the student has any baseball scholarship then the value of their aid combines with that scholarship against team limits.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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so his point is conjecture and yours are broad sweeping
Jun 18, 2019, 1:47 PM
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Generalizations?
Nice...
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Legend [16900]
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Re: so his point is conjecture and yours are broad sweeping
Jun 18, 2019, 1:55 PM
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Exactly what were my generalizations? That baseball is increasingly middle class sport? There are plenty of articles on the topic with hard numbers. Look them up yourself. I tired on posting the same stuff over and over for people who want to believe that somehow Clemson is being mercilessly disadvantaged in sports. It's preposterous. Neither of us can prove what percent of the baseball team is on financial aid because that kind of information is not publicly disclosed. His assertion rests on the entire baseball team coming from homes making less than $60k/yr. I find that highly unlikely based on available statistics. Try again.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Yes, exactly***
Jun 18, 2019, 3:22 PM
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Letterman [281]
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Re: So does Clemson offer academic
Jun 19, 2019, 3:17 PM
[ in reply to So does Clemson offer academic ] |
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Baseball players are eligible for academic money on the same terms as anyone else. Being a baseball player does NOT help with the academic money.
Unfortunately, Clemson does not offer much in the way of academic money to ANYONE. They simply don't have the money. I'm not talking about lottery money. In any given year there will be a few players who grew up in SC that are getting varying amounts of lottery money. I'm talking about academic money that Clemson provides from various scholarship pools. There just ain't much academic money available at Clemson, even for a high academic kid. Vanderbilt kills other schools because of the size of its endowment/foundation. Clemson, and most other schools, simply cannot compete in that area. Nor is that likely to change.
Don't get me wrong. There are probably a couple of kids in each class that get a little academic money. I know several that did. But, it's usually a pretty small amount.
scholarships to good baseball players?
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 11:56 AM
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There isn't a fact in that post. Funny you ignore the one with actual facts and references for you to check. One again you choose to believe that which confirms your bias.
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 11:58 AM
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oh i am biased ok. biased against people with an agenda to get our coaches run off. feel free to watch montes presser coot.
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 11:59 AM
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<###### width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/#####/oQgdt_efGaA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen>
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All-TigerNet [13219]
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Doesn't do much good to get 7 runs a game when..
Jun 18, 2019, 2:12 PM
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you give up 7.3 the last half of the season.
Get off your butt and FIND some daggum pitchers!!!
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Legend [16900]
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is ] |
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That is completely false. Stanford and Vanderbilt offer virtually no academic merit based aid. They do offer significant need based financial aid but it is available to the entire student body based on objective criteria. It can't be cherry picked for atheletes. And, if an athlete is offered any amount of atheletic scholarship (i.e. 25% minimum in baseball) and subsequently qualifies for need based aid, the total value of their entire aid package counts against the scholarships sports total limit. Therefore, if a kid offered a 25% scholarship ends up having 75% covered by need based aid he will count as a full scholarship towards the 11.7 total. This creates disadvantages for them in the recruiting process that arguably equal to the convenience of the need based aid.
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Orange Blooded [2287]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 12:04 PM
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Wow, did this rule change recently? I remember the endowment scholarships being a huge issue during Leggett's last few years, but really haven't heard quite as much about it lately.
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 12:59 PM
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obviously the only person that feels we are on a level playing field is vizcoot. and his agenda is to get our coach ran off. maybe he is trying to get him back to cooterville.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 1:58 PM
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Weird that almost everyone thought everything was perfectly fine just 4 seasons ago and that the established Hall of Fame coach was solely responsible. Now that his replacement can't do squat the entire baseball landscape has changed (in 4 short years) and he should have unlimited time to adapt.
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All-TigerNet [14450]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 2:11 PM
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no one thought everything was fine. hence a change was made. the new guy won 40 plus a year his 1st 3 years, amazingly enough with the acm in place. we had a bad year this year. no one is saying different. we had 2 straight very good recruiting classes plus this years looks very good. sorry vizcoot next year looks to be greatly improved. then we have to see what life is like without the acm. imaginative recruiting will have to be done unless something changes
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 18, 2019, 2:17 PM
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Can you even read? the point was that Leggett was scapegoated and no one cared about any of these issues. Now they're front and center and being used to defend a guy who has accomplished nothing. That's hypocrisy. That's what I'm calling out. Next year is obviously make a break for Lee. He'll only have 2 years left on his contract and no way he gets an extension without at least going to a Super Regional.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Why is it that you think these private schools can’t award
Jun 18, 2019, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is ] |
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Money unless the family is at a certain income level or academic level?
I believe that is totally false. They are getting these kids more aid than public schools can offer. It’s been that way for many years. Even PC helps athletes get additional aid because they are private.
Do you run an athletic department or admissions department at a private university ? Just curious how you are such an expert?
Based on your post history I’d guess you work at a public schools admissions office and you think you know what private schools can or cannot do but you really have no idea.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Why is it that you think these private schools can’t award
Jun 18, 2019, 2:12 PM
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NCAA rules are widely available. Read them. Read the documents a high school players has to read to even be a recruited athlete. None of this is secret or mysterious. I'm not in possession of hard to find information. It is conspiracy minded rubes that are buying into message board nonsense.
There are very specific rules about how scholarships are administered. Accusing a school of cheating is not the same as accusing them of having unfair advantages. If a school is awarding merit money for something other sports - in a manner not available to all students - to round up their scholarship above the limits the NCAA prescribes for that sport it is an impermissible benefit and is cheating plain and simple. You do not have to be an NCAA attorney to understand.
Private or Public doesn't matter. Either type can have endowments design to offer benefits that may be available to athletes. But they have to be available to everyone to not be an impermissible benefit. Why shouldn't schools be able to prioritize how they spend their money? That's what you're complaining about. Should there be expenditure caps on each athletic program? Should Vanderbilt have to spend less money on baseball and more on football? If, so should they be able to force Clemson to do the opposite. These arguments are ridiculous.
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CU Guru [1428]
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Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is
Jun 19, 2019, 10:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: Vandy doesn't do ACM they are private, their advantage is ] |
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Let's make sure to qualify significant in terms of money offered, not in terms of the number of students it's offered too. Besides, every private school offers scholarships to bring tuition down to realitistic levels while still claiming it's in the stratosphere for prestige and ranking purposes.
You're making good points, but you must be new, logic and tigernet don't usually find themselves in the same place often. I mean, it's no fgf here, but some people here don't get how to make arguments.
That being said, I haven't read the other posts you're referencing but I think Monte deserves a couple more years. He's making progress is my eyes.
This article about acm sounds like bunk.
Never thought I'd see a link from the SREB posted on tnet ??????
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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110%er [7448]
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re-read my post - didn't say they were, but UVA
Jun 18, 2019, 5:38 PM
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has a large endowment. The reference to private applies to the ACM- Vandy isn't involved with ACM. Not sure if the state of Virginia is or not. There are a couple of southern states that aren't but don't remember which ones. Seems like NC or GA might be one that doesn't participate but not 100%.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Oculus Spirit [76636]
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Re: Academic Common Market (ACM) Reality
Jun 18, 2019, 7:19 PM
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Tell us more Vizio! We are all such little birds just waiting for you to feed us your knowledge.
Dang man, we get it. Now go take a Xanax and relax bro.
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