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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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Asking about citizenship is now unconstitutional, political
Jul 5, 2019, 2:58 PM
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and immoral according to dems and the MSM.
Since America started counting heads in 1790, 14 of 24 census taken asked about citizenship and 16 of the 24 census taken asked about place of birth.
Who knew our government has been violating the constitution, playing politics and bound for eternity in helll for asking about citizenship and place of birth since America began counting heads?
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All-In [34501]
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sirius questienne, why even conduct a census if the govt
Jul 5, 2019, 3:14 PM
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doesnt know who's a citizen or not? Doesnt one NEED to know this for legislative seats? Isnt that the purpose?
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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If an resident can't vote why should they be represented...
Jul 5, 2019, 3:30 PM
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in our legislative process. Sanctuary states such as California refuse to cooperate with federal law enforcement, some counties do no allow federal access to their databases to track the release of illegals convicted of crimes such as murder, rape, drunk driving often without insurance and license and other such.
Why should taxpayers in states which notify the feds about such illegals convicted of illegal activities be contributing to roads, schools and other gov services sanctuary state extend to illegals?
So no, it isn't political, immoral or unconstitutional to ask someone if they are a citizen on a census. If it was then it would be unconstitutional to ask them when they apply for a job, marriage license or on any form used by anyone.
Dems want to replace all the blue collar voters who won't buy into their socialism. We know only uneducated people who do not know the history of this country would fall for something that has and will never work no matter how many countries are destroyed trying it a different way.
No freaking wonder the socialist and communist have such a high body count when the take power.
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All-In [48753]
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It must be a long game they are playing
Jul 5, 2019, 3:33 PM
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pandering to an audience that can't vote.
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110%er [5476]
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Re: It must be a long game they are playing
Jul 5, 2019, 3:38 PM
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Wrong, millions of illegals vote in every election, thanks to the dunbacrats.
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Standout [347]
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Would love to see where you got this information from.***
Jul 5, 2019, 3:48 PM
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110%er [5476]
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Re: Would love to see where you got this information from.***
Jul 5, 2019, 3:53 PM
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Might help if you did a little research on your own. Voter fraud is rampant in our country.
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All-In [48753]
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There is no evidence of it, but it's rampant***
Jul 5, 2019, 3:54 PM
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Standout [347]
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Heisman Winner [137637]
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All-In [48753]
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [48078]
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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All it takes is one dem in the oval office...
Jul 5, 2019, 7:01 PM
[ in reply to It must be a long game they are playing ] |
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and a couple three more in the senate and illegals will be able to vote. Do I think they have the balls to grant amnesty to 25 million illegals in lieu of the outrage it which would come from half the country?
Well, if they opened the border and allowed every illegal who stepped foot on our soil to get asylum...no wait. Dems have already lobbied to abolish ICE and open the borders to asylum seekers on moral ground so in reality, they are half the ####### way home already. All the need is one election and the two party system ends.
Sure, 1/3rd of America votes against them but they compensate for those votes with open borders in two years. Border patrol will be dressed like a 'welcome to the neighborhood the next time dems take the whitehouse and congress.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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I don't believe anything you say.
Jul 5, 2019, 7:03 PM
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Show me where the constitution provides for illegals to be counted for legislative purposes.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: I don't believe anything you say.
Jul 5, 2019, 9:39 PM
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Amendment XIV, Section 2:
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.
The next part clarifies that if any state disenfranchises any male citizens, their apportionment will be downsized proportionally. So by later using the word "citizen" in the same section, it is explicit that "person" and "citizen" are not synonymous.
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CU Guru [1405]
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110%er [5854]
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Re: sirius questienne, why even conduct a census if the govt
Jul 5, 2019, 5:38 PM
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Exactly. Those under 18 can’t vote, yet we count them on the census. Felons can’t vote, we count them. We are counting people not voters.
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All-TigerNet [11125]
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Facts.
Jul 5, 2019, 5:20 PM
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This is from an NPR researcher this year.
After a controversial decision by the Department of Commerce to add a question about U.S. citizenship to the 2020 census, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders defended the move as nothing out of the ordinary.
The claim
"This is a question that's been included in every census since 1965," Sanders said Tuesday, "with the exception of 2010, when it was removed."
This statement is inaccurate, incomplete and misleading. A quick history of the decennial survey makes that clear.
The census has been conducted every decade since 1790 to get a national head count used most critically to decide the distribution of congressional representation. At first it was conducted by U.S. marshals, but later surveys were sent to most American households, with census workers helping those who didn't promptly return their surveys.
The last time a citizenship question was among the census questions for all U.S. households was in 1950. That form asked where each person was born and in a follow-up question asked, "If foreign born — Is he naturalized?"
In 1960, there was no such question about citizenship, only about place of birth.
In 1960, the census asked respondents what country they were born in but not whether they were naturalized citizens.
Census.gov/Screenshot by NPR
Sanders mentioned the year 1965 on Tuesday, but the census only comes every 10 years, so it isn't clear what she was referring to, and the White House did not respond to a request for clarification.
In 1970, the Census Bureau began sending around two questionnaires: a short-form questionnaire to gather basic population information and a long form that asked detailed questions about everything from household income to plumbing. The short form went to most households in America. The long form was sent to a much smaller sample of households, 1 in 6. Most people didn't get it.
Starting in 1970, questions about citizenship were included in the long-form questionnaire but not the short form. For instance, in 2000, those who received the long form were asked, "Is this person a CITIZEN of the United States?"
The 2000 long-form survey, sent to a subset of Americans, asked about citizenship. The more widely distributed census short form that year did not.
Census.gov/Screenshot by NPR
The short form kept it simple: name, relationship, age, sex, Hispanic origin, race, marital status and whether the home is owned or rented.
The 2000 census short form asked about race but not citizenship, which the long form that year did ask about.
Later, the census added the American Community Survey, conducted every year and sent to 3.5 million households. It began being fully implemented in 2005. It asks many of the same questions as the census long-form surveys from 1970 to 2000, including the citizenship question.
Sanders said that in 2010 the citizenship question was removed. In fact, there was no long form that year — it had been replaced by the annual American Community Survey. The decennial census form asked just 10 questions.
The state of California has already sued to block the addition of a citizenship question to the 2020 census, and New York's state attorney general has announced plans for a multistate lawsuit. The concern expressed by states with large undocumented immigrant populations is that asking about citizenship will scare people off, forms won't get filled out and the count won't be accurate, affecting federal funding and the number of congressional seats. (The Census Bureau is legally required to keep answers confidential, even from the FBI and other government entities. That means it isn't allowed to release data identifying an individual. But federal agencies and researchers can request census information on specific population groups.)
2020 Census To Keep Racial, Ethnic Categories Used In 2010
National
2020 Census To Keep Racial, Ethnic Categories Used In 2010
In a memo explaining his reasoning, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross dismissed concerns about incentive to participate.
"The Department of Commerce is not able to determine definitively how inclusion of a citizenship question on the decennial census will impact responsiveness. However, even if there is some impact on responses, the value of more complete and accurate data derived from surveying the entire population outweighs such concerns. Completing and returning decennial census questionnaires is required by Federal law, those responses are protected by law, and inclusion of a citizenship question on the 2020 decennial census will provide more complete information for those who respond," Ross wrote.
But if the 2020 census form does ultimately ask about citizenship status, it will be the first time the U.S. census has directly asked for the citizenship status of every person living in every household.
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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Let me make this simple.
Jul 5, 2019, 7:12 PM
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Trump asked for nothing extraordinary. If it's political, illegal or immoral then we've always been political, illegal and immoral about it. Is the following chart accurate?
 https://cis.org/Richwine/History-Census-Bureaus-Birthplace-and-Citizenship-Questions-One-Table
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All-TigerNet [11125]
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Lulz, so you post a graph published by
Jul 8, 2019, 3:59 PM
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an anti-immigration think tank? Here it is in your simple terms:
if the 2020 census form does ultimately ask about citizenship status, it will be the first time the U.S. census has directly asked for the citizenship status of every person living in every household.
And why do you think they want that?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Asking about citizenship is now unconstitutional, political
Jul 5, 2019, 9:54 PM
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It's also worth noting that SCOTUS did not find that asking for citizenship is unconstitutional. They issued a narrow ruling that in this particular case, the Secretary of Commerce acted arbitrarily.
This was a matter of administrative rulemaking. It must pass the "arbitrary and capricious" standard upon judicial review. This matter failed that test.
The entire premise of this thread is incorrect.
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Legend [15492]
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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Your party made it political by opposing all efforts...
Jul 6, 2019, 7:43 AM
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to ensure that immigrants are vetted and that all who enter can support themselves instead of becoming burdens on society and taxpayers who are responsible to support all our social services.
States are stockpiling illegals to give them more political power and more federal money to control. You insult me by thinking you can make me assume the blame for making this political when politics is your party's motivation for wanting open borders. I am fully aware than only one or two P&R dems want open borders but it must pain you to defend your presidential candidates who do.
Why in the world don't you just give up and admit your party is off the deep end with this tomfoolery? We've always had the option to put citizenship questions on the census. People who are innocent of law breaking do not fear the law, they only have to respect it.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Your party made it political by opposing all efforts...
Jul 6, 2019, 10:23 AM
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I agree with your points, to a point. But that argument is irrelevant to the question. The Constitution clearly says that people should be counted, not citizens.
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CU Guru [1405]
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Your party made it political by opposing all efforts...
Jul 9, 2019, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Your party made it political by opposing all efforts... ] |
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CT1988, there is no point in arguing with these guys. It means nothing to be an American anymore to these guys or that what we have now is built on the backbones of people who have worked their whole lives and put into a system only to have it plundered by people who are blinded by what is happening.
Let me break it down for some people and make it easy to understand. If you are an illegal / undocumented immigrant, you probably do not pay taxes since you are undocumented. If you do not pay into the American economics you shouldn’t be able to vote...period...end of discussion!
There are way too many elderly Americans that have spent their entire lives working and paying in to the economy that shouldn’t even be asked to work all the way to their death beds. There are way too many American children on the streets that are hungry and without sufficient shelter.
It baffles me that people on the left fight so hard to fight to acquire rights for those who haven’t contributed one red cent into the system and never intend to, meanwhile we have homeless U.S veterans who fought for the freedoms to vote, innocent American children who haven’t eaten in days or slept in a warm bed ever and elderly who have been thrown aside simply because people live too fast and don’t won’t to be burdened in helping them.
As a Christian, I sympathize and pray for immigrants that they may find a better place, as an American it is my duty to try to preserve the well-being and livelihood of the ones I see right in front of me first.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know if it's unconstitutional...
Jul 9, 2019, 5:42 PM
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I don't know what the media is saying about it, but I don't think the Supreme Court has found it unconstitutional, and that's the only opinion that matters.
That said, if the question would have a cooling effect on census participation, I'd say that's a good enough reason why it doesn't need to be included.
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All-In [26968]
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One thing that seems to be missed in this discussion...
Jul 9, 2019, 5:44 PM
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Is that just because a person is not a citizen, does not mean they are "illegal". There are millions of legal residents in the United States who are not citizens.
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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OK, what makes you think legal non citizens would be...
Jul 10, 2019, 8:53 AM
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reluctant to participate?
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All-In [26968]
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Well, I wasn't referring to legal non-citizens
Jul 10, 2019, 9:57 AM
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When I made that statement. I was referring to anybody that could be counted in the census. My reply was rather unrelated to that point...it was just an observation I made reading the rest of the thread.
But I did say "if" there's a cooling effect. I don't know if there would be or not. The most important thing, by far, for the census, is for it to be an accurate count of the people in the United States. Every decision about what to put on the census should be to that end. If there's a question that could compromise the accuracy, by discouraging participation, and is not necessary, then the question should probably not be included.
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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Unless you think citizens would refuse to participate in...
Jul 10, 2019, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to I don't know if it's unconstitutional... ] |
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the census then I don't a problem. Imo, illegals are here illegally and should have no voice in how America is governed. Giving illegals a voice in our governance is akin to allowing Russia or France to vote in legislative action.
I'm not saying illegals shouldn't be protected by our constitution. Our constitution provides protection of certain rights to everyone within our borders including illegals. I'm saying there is no provision in our constitution for those who have come here without law to have a voice in the house of representatives.
California has just passed legislation to extend medical insurance to illegals at taxpayer expense. I'm sure they will have an accurate account of how many illegals are there in the next six months. Imo it will be like counting fence post while the car is going 120mph.
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All-In [26968]
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People who are in the country illegally
Jul 10, 2019, 9:59 AM
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cannot have a voice in how America is governed, as they cannot vote. The census doesn't "provide a voice". It counts people.
Now, whether people in the country illegally should be counted, I don't know the right answer. The Constitution leaves it pretty open-ended and says "persons".
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Heisman Winner [111191]
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Re: Asking about citizenship is now unconstitutional, political
Jul 9, 2019, 5:50 PM
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must be hyperbole tuesday again. I mean I like you and all, but you really love to just blow things out proportion and get your self and others all worked up. Maybe this has become an addiction. There is help out there if you need it.
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All-In [47626]
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How is asking about citizenship is now unconstitutional
Jul 9, 2019, 6:06 PM
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when it has been done so frequently over several hundred years?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: How is asking about citizenship is now unconstitutional
Jul 9, 2019, 10:09 PM
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1. No one has ruled it's unconstitutional.
2. The data resulting from the question on the 1940 census was used to round up the Japanese and put them in concentration camps. You cool with that?
3. Do you ever read before you post?
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Oculus Spirit [93571]
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Did El Salvador attack Pearl Harbor?
Jul 10, 2019, 8:56 AM
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Yeah man, that's exactly what Trump wants to do. Put them in internment camps and house, feed, clothe and provide medical services with AOC and Pelosi screaming "RACISM," at the top of their lungs.
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