|
Replies: 61
| visibility 861
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
 |
Heisman Winner [119569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 54415
Joined: 6/24/09
|
Ed Zachary.....
Feb 13, 2019, 9:12 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31847]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37146
Joined: 11/22/03
|
A nutty guy pushed a camera guy and yelled at him...
Feb 13, 2019, 9:14 AM
|
|
I think that's a pretty long leap to fascism. I'm not suggesting Trump's comments on the press are all just fine, but he's not condoning violence for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Calling people the "enemy of America"...
Feb 13, 2019, 9:33 AM
|
|
Is a condoning of violence when interpreted by stupid, angry people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31847]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37146
Joined: 11/22/03
|
meh....still a reach***
Feb 13, 2019, 10:03 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Okay, tell me how.
Feb 14, 2019, 7:31 AM
|
|
Tell me how Trump calling the media the enemy of America and fake news is different from the German movements of "lugenpresse," particularly since some of Trump's supporters are shouting that term at rallies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31847]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37146
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Where does this kind of thing stop?....
Feb 14, 2019, 7:56 AM
|
|
you are saying that Trump's use of the "Fake News" narrative is the same as "lugenpresse".
If that really is logical, then I can also say that the left's move to Democratic Socialism under the guise that the "1%" is taking all of the wealth from the bottom 99% is the same as Hitler rallying the Aryans against the Jews by accusing them of building all of their wealth off of the backs of others. Heck, there might even be MORE parallels with some of the German rhetoric of the 1930's regarding wealth to today's call from many on the left than anything to do with the press.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Where does this kind of thing stop?....
Feb 14, 2019, 9:25 AM
|
|
Hey, I won't disagree with you. That's a good example as well. But it's pretty clear when the president tries to label anything in the media that opposes him as fake and calling all of the press America's enemies, he's doing the same as lugenpresse. If not, please explain to me how it's different.
Godwin himself of Godwin's law has said that when the comparison actually IS similar or the same to what the Nazis did, the #### applies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31847]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37146
Joined: 11/22/03
|
The big difference is that Trump isn't Hitler....
Feb 14, 2019, 2:06 PM
|
|
may sound simplistic, but it's true. He's not anywhere close to as cleaver or really have any kind of "agenda". I firmly believe he just wants to be in power (and maybe more simply, not lose the next election).
Nazi's took the tact with the press so that they could take over an instill their form of government. I don't think anyone can accuse Trump of that, let alone think he really understands it.
Hitler was pure evil and wanted to exterminate a race.
I don't think Trump is evil...I just think he's an incompetent narcissistic liar who doesn't want to be embarrassed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: The big difference is that Trump isn't Hitler....
Feb 14, 2019, 3:01 PM
|
|
I agree 100 percent that he is not. Lacks all that you stated.
I've called Trump an accidental fascist who has unwittingly surrounded himself with some people who would like that to happen.
But regardless, what he's done is the same tactic, intentional or not, and we're seeing some very harmful reactions. If Trump actually had the power to suppress First Amendment rights, he would do it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11135]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14024
Joined: 9/2/03
|
He is the Pres of the dadgum US of A, the inaction of
Feb 13, 2019, 9:37 AM
[ in reply to A nutty guy pushed a camera guy and yelled at him... ] |
|
not condoning shid like this is not even close to enough. The fake press cr@p and "enemy of the people" stuff is part of his circus act. His job is to stand up there at his rallies and tell the people that he may not agree with them, but these folk have a job to do and denounce violence against the press and he's too chicken$h it to do it.
I don't know why anyone would want to defend the cowardice of a leader.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11135]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14024
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Speaking of which, why in the
Feb 13, 2019, 9:41 AM
|
|
he 11 does he feel the need to fly around the country on our dime and have pep rallies promoting ignorance and hatred? Is that leadership?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
This.
Feb 13, 2019, 9:47 AM
[ in reply to He is the Pres of the dadgum US of A, the inaction of ] |
|
Of course, he doesn't flat-out come out and tell people to attack reporters. But when he constantly insinuates they are somehow evil enemies of our people and country, he may as well be.
Smart people here know not to take this literally. Dumb, angry mobs at his rallies don't. And there are lot of those folks scattered across our country.
I mean, I hate to use the Nazi word, but you folks all know that the Nazis did the exact same thing to the German media, right? Right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79400]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63266
Joined: 10/30/05
|
It's not like they're doing themselves any favors...
Feb 13, 2019, 10:04 AM
|
|
The Covington kids, the fake Cohen and Russia story...Those are the most recent examples of #### poor reporting, but there are many, many others that play directly into Trump's fake news narrative. So you can't put this all on Trump.
They're not reporting the news anymore, they're reporting their opinions. People realize it, and they don't trust them. This was occurring well before Trump, but has escalated due to the never ending media frenzy that surrounds him.
Most people don't like people who constantly lie to them, this is no different.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111339]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73660
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: It's not like they're doing themselves any favors...
Feb 13, 2019, 10:36 AM
|
|
by all means attack a camera man from a foreign news reporting agency, obviously they are trying to frame trump voters as an angry violent mob and need to be punished for their lies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34533]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41379
Joined: 4/20/01
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: It's not like they're doing themselves any favors...
Feb 13, 2019, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to It's not like they're doing themselves any favors... ] |
|
Most people don't like people who constantly lie to them, this is no different.
Trump lies to us everyday. His followers haven't changed.
First, I'm dismissing the Russian example. It's absurd people are still arguing there's nothing to this story.
Wasn't the Cohen story a Buzzfeed endeavor? So moving along.
And the mistake on the Covington kids was corrected.
That is far, far different than labeling all reporters in America as the nation's enemies, and yeah, it's a page out of the fascist playbook.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [79400]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63266
Joined: 10/30/05
|
Trump doesn't parade around pretending to be a paragon of
Feb 14, 2019, 3:01 PM
|
|
virtue and morality, either.
The Cohen story was a Buzzfeed endeavor....That all of the other major networks picked up immediately and ran with.
The mistake on the Covington kids was not correct, that's just pure horse shid. Many of them even doubled down on it. Only after what actually happened became impossible to deny did they walk it back somewhat, because they had to. To say "it was corrected" is just being dishonest about the situation.
Like I said, these are just a couple of the most recent examples. You can dismiss it if you want, but people realize what's going on. I really think you're focusing your angst about fascism and totalitarianism in the wrong place, cause it ain't the Pubs knocking on those doors right now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31847]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37146
Joined: 11/22/03
|
and there it is***
Feb 13, 2019, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to This. ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Yep. Sadly, there it is.***
Feb 13, 2019, 3:11 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [80977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56059
Joined: 9/13/04
|
Were never far from it in here
Feb 13, 2019, 8:18 PM
[ in reply to and there it is*** ] |
|
or other bizarre statements about him
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
You can literally look at a parallel example.
Feb 14, 2019, 7:33 AM
|
|
https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Lugenpresse-25068793
But any time someone points them out, y'all stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen.
But, of course, we've got people comparing Panera Bread to socialist governments and a whole pack of people who think anything that doesn't meet their extreme right wing views = socialism.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [80977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56059
Joined: 9/13/04
|
Cata, is there a need to bring up the other ridiculous
Feb 14, 2019, 2:54 PM
|
|
things that have been said about trump in here?
I think you know what I mean.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Cata, is there a need to bring up the other ridiculous
Feb 14, 2019, 3:03 PM
|
|
I'm holding back on playing my own "But Obama..." here.
I mean, sure, let's entertain if you want. Doesn't change that he has embraced concepts that have been traditionally held by fascists. He hasn't had the power or the brains to carry them through, though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [80977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56059
Joined: 9/13/04
|
ok. You've said that he might be a Russian Asset,
Feb 14, 2019, 3:13 PM
|
|
and then later you went so far as to say he would throw a coup of the American government if the Republicans lost the house and Senate.
Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds, especially when you combine those statements with your consistent comparisons to Hitler and calling him a Fascist?
I think everybody gets it; You don't like Trump. Many reasonable people don't; I don't particularly care for him myself. But like many elections, at the time, we don;t always get what we want. He was the better choice, IMO.
And aside from making both of our 401K's bigger and preside over a pretty strong economy (that I think is good for everyone), what has he personally done to negatively affect the life of you, your family, and just about everyone you know?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: ok. You've said that he might be a Russian Asset,
Feb 14, 2019, 3:51 PM
|
|
I posted an article about the Russian asset thing, and it laid out some pretty questionable issues. Most of you dismissed it without reading. Not surprising.
As for the other one, yep, I said it, and there's still time for him to try something drastic. And I fully welcome being wrong and y'all laughing at me over it because that's the better situation than being correct.
You defend Trump too much to claim you don't like him. Sorry. You quickly jump to his defense constantly.
...what has he personally done to negatively affect the life of you, your family, and just about everyone you know?
This has been and continues to be the most absurd response to criticism of Trump. Aside from yes, he has affected people I know, this insinuates we shouldn't criticize a bad president because he hasn't done something directly to me. Do I need to even explain why that's ridiculous?
He's made America worse. More divided. That's affecting all of us.
And Trump hasn't made your 401(k) bigger. First, it's pretty much always growing. Second, the economy has been on an upswing. Sure, he hasn't hurt the economy and it continues to grow. But you're just parroting his 401(k) Tweets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [80977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56059
Joined: 9/13/04
|
Ok man, whatever you say.
Feb 14, 2019, 9:30 PM
|
|
We get it. you don't like him.
Calling him a facist and comparing him to Hitler only makes one of y'all look worse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Ok man, whatever you say.
Feb 18, 2019, 7:36 AM
|
|
That's fine. I hope when the smoke clears, I was wrong and I do look foolish. That's a lot better than being right in this case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31847]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37146
Joined: 11/22/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17860]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8923
Joined: 12/24/96
|
He could invite the guy over for a beer to discuss
Feb 13, 2019, 4:42 PM
|
|
his anger issues. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34533]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41379
Joined: 4/20/01
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [78823]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26419
Joined: 12/6/98
|
I may not be a wordsmith
Feb 13, 2019, 9:14 AM
|
|
but how is this fascism?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
One of the absolute key tenants of it...
Feb 13, 2019, 9:34 AM
|
|
Is to attack the free press. The free press must be squashed for it to rise, and in order for that to happen, you have to turn the people against it. You have to convince them that their leaders are honest and their protectors, and that the media are their enemy.
We agree Trump has encouraged this idea, no?
Would you like examples in history where this was done with fascist regimes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [78823]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26419
Joined: 12/6/98
|
yeah maybe
Feb 13, 2019, 10:08 AM
|
|
the American republic has reached the end of it's lifespan anyway
Maybe it is time for something else, we are no San Marino! And after looking San Marino up, I think I want to vacation there
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [80977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56059
Joined: 9/13/04
|
He was great with the Dolphins
Feb 13, 2019, 8:19 PM
|
|
Never won a superbowl though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [137789]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63752
Joined: 10/22/00
|
And let's not lose this in the shuffle:
Feb 13, 2019, 9:16 AM
|
|
Trump has shifted from "Build The Wall" to "Finish The Wall". Like, officially. What?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59974]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22468
Joined: 5/24/17
|
Re: And let's not lose this in the shuffle:
Feb 13, 2019, 9:20 AM
|
|
and........you are always so butt hurt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [137789]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63752
Joined: 10/22/00
|
What am I butthurt about? I was just surprised to learn
Feb 13, 2019, 9:25 AM
|
|
that the wall was started. Please, educate me on all the work and progress of the wall to date.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6557]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4993
Joined: 10/31/04
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [137789]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63752
Joined: 10/22/00
|
7 miles as of June 18 2018, of a 30 mile project.
Feb 13, 2019, 10:01 AM
|
|
This would appear to amount to the wall construction and maintenance that has been in place and ongoing for the last half century.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [119569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 54415
Joined: 6/24/09
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [137789]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63752
Joined: 10/22/00
|
So...wall that was already there?
Feb 13, 2019, 9:58 AM
|
|
Why wasn't the slogan "Finish The Wall" all along then?
It's rhetorical. We both know the answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5508]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 3806
Joined: 8/23/13
|
Re: And let's not lose this in the shuffle:
Feb 13, 2019, 11:16 AM
[ in reply to And let's not lose this in the shuffle: ] |
|
That pic shows the courageous Trump supporter who stopped the false flag pushy guy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18003]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30146
Joined: 9/9/06
|
What's worse is despite the cringe obviousness of the switch
Feb 13, 2019, 3:31 PM
[ in reply to And let's not lose this in the shuffle: ] |
|
it'll still work with his followers.
Also, Trump using Hillary's "Stronger Together" messaging is pretty funny.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
This man's actions are on him.
Feb 13, 2019, 9:38 AM
|
|
It doesn't mean anything about America, unless we had this happening constantly everywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34100]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33600
Joined: 9/13/99
|
Re: This man's actions are on him.
Feb 14, 2019, 9:38 PM
|
|
If only there were some footage somewhere of Trump calling the media the enemy of the people, and offering to pay legal fees for people who commit acts of violence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80116
Joined: 11/29/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [34533]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41379
Joined: 4/20/01
|
Achtung!! Tchuss!!***
Feb 13, 2019, 11:13 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [80977]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56059
Joined: 9/13/04
|
Was Cata there?***
Feb 14, 2019, 11:16 PM
[ in reply to Lugenpresse! ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40342]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23461
Joined: 7/13/12
|
no kidding, we got 24 yr old dimes asking old guys for $
Feb 13, 2019, 10:53 AM
|
|
in exchange for pleasure.
what a time to be alive!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23418
Joined: 8/16/03
|
It would be fascist if it were an organization behind it.
Feb 13, 2019, 4:45 PM
|
|
Having idiots do idiotic things is not fascism. Trump, I'm sure, would love being an autocrat, but that's not happening. So, not to dismiss your sentiment of disapproval (which I share) but I am not worried about the potential widespread extrapolation of this event.
I am much more worried about the elimination of debate and free speech that is advocated on a grand scale by "progressives." Shutting down perspectives based on identity. Intentionally straw manning to shut down criticism of certain people/things. These things have created a lot of the anger and desperation that led to someone of such low quality like Trump being elected.
I see the idiocy in the right (enabling and excusing Trump's grossness) as a symptom of the destructive political tactics of the left. The cat made the dog go insane.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Let's call it poorly planned fascism then.
Feb 13, 2019, 4:50 PM
|
|
Since I'm not sure Trump really has the brains to pull it off. Just the mouth.
But I disagree on where your worry lies. I'm more worried about our top elected official demonizing the free press to the point where Americans feel emboldened and justified to assault them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23418
Joined: 8/16/03
|
I like the fact that people see what can happen if the
Feb 13, 2019, 4:57 PM
|
|
executive branch has too much power centralized in it.
Now we know invalids can become President... so, maybe people will want to keep too much power out of their hands.
Trump actually threatens our civil liberties less than a more effective politician. Our problem is systematic. The fascism threat is controlling free speech. That is actually happening in organized fashion right now. Look what is happening to anyone who criticizes the Israel lobby. It's automatically labeled anti-semitic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [345]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 413
Joined: 8/28/05
|
Re: I like the fact that people see what can happen if the
Feb 13, 2019, 7:09 PM
|
|
It is amazing how much power Congress has ceded to the Executive branch over the years. They are all so worried about getting reelected that they don’t do much of anything anymore. It’s all getting dirt on the “other” side or grandstand voting on crap they know can’t pass so they can score points with the base.
Either the public has to start caring and vote for people who will rein it in or Congress, as a whole, needs to decide to challenge the Executive branch. Sadly, I don’t see either of those happening so the trend will most likely continue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I like the fact that people see what can happen if the
Feb 14, 2019, 11:26 AM
|
|
You are correct, the executive branch holds too much power.
Personally, I wish we could have the SCOTUS clarify that executive orders are illegal and nullify every EO ever written. There is no statute in the Constitution that gives the President the right to issue executive orders, and I am opposed to every EO ever issued because of that, even if it is on matters I agree with. EO's are explicitly wrong.
An EO is very, very similar to a royal decree, and a King is the opposite of what our founders wanted to establish.
In theory....
The President is nothing more than a a notary for the People. The People elect officials to Congress who propose laws on our behalf based on what the States say they want. The President then considers the opinion of the nation as a whole and then rejects or notarizes the bill according to what the people want. If the new law is challenged, the courts then consider if said law is valid by comparing it to the Constitution. That's the theory at least...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23418
Joined: 8/16/03
|
I agree, and I take it further, the entire federal governmen
Feb 14, 2019, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: I like the fact that people see what can happen if the ] |
|
t has too much power. Things are too centralized. We need decentralization.
Hell, I could even support socialism on the ver local level. The idea of a community owning the means of production is VERY different than the bureaucracy of a giant federal government owning it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Fun times in America
Feb 14, 2019, 10:51 AM
|
|
That is not fascist, nor is Trump. You need to read some more.
The majority of Americans have a huge amount of distrust in the media, because we have many, many, many cases of the media openly lying about current events purely based on political motive. Just look at the Covington kids as the latest example.
A grassroots distrust of a proven dishonest media establishment is not fascism, a small group of immature ######## physically bullying a news crew is not fascism.
Furthermore, fascism USES the media, specifically nationalized media, as a propaganda machine. Thus far, the Trump adminsitration openly criticizes the media and frequently clashes with journalists. That is not the mark of fascism.
Furthermore, Fascism emphasizes a socialist based welfare state. The core economic component is strategically applied socialism and massive regulation, particularly socializing major industry (such as automotive, healthcare, and natural resources), government control over the entirety of the education system, and a strong government-influence media propaganda machine.
Trump does lean towards right wing populism in an authoritarian/autocratic manner, but his administration is heavily de-regulated and drastically minimized. Likewise, his emphasis on removing government influence from the economy and privatizing major industry and major programs (welfare, education, see DeVos), has absolutely no resemblance to fascism.
Barack Obama was an excellent example of a soft Fascist (although his roots were primarily Corporatism enforced by fascist political leanings), as were Johnson, FDR, and Woodrow Wilson. Both FDR and Wilson openly admitted to being fascist or having fascist tendencies. FDR was pen pals with Hitler and provided funding and research support to Hitler's early "Final Solution" programs via the American Eugenics Program. Woodrow Wilson openly praised the American Progressive (now "Liberal") movement as "the dawn of American Fascism" and openly stated that the American Progressives were the political brothers of Mussolini's "Fascisti" or "Fascist Party" in Italy at the time. O'Rourke, Occasio-Cortez, and Bernie Sanders are not examples of fascism either, as they lean strongly towards socialism. Kamala Harris is the closest thing we have to a fascist leader at the moment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Fun times in America
Feb 14, 2019, 3:39 PM
|
|
First, I predict you will run away and not respond to this as you have all the other times I've ripped one of your posts to shreds. I welcome you proving me wrong.
Second, I've read more than you have or ever will. Actually, that's an absurd statement I can't prove, but since you set the tone for that, let's go. Next, you can falsely accuse me of being a former KGB agent with the other stuff you make up when replying to me.
Let's go!
The majority of Americans have a huge amount of distrust in the media, because we have many, many, many cases of the media openly lying about current events purely based on political motive. Just look at the Covington kids as the latest example.
Yes, you are right about the distrust, but you're confusing lies with mistakes. The NY Times still has a superb factual accuracy record despite the Covington goof (which they corrected), and I'll prove this with money down if we must.
A grassroots distrust of a proven dishonest media establishment is not fascism, a small group of immature ######## physically bullying a news crew is not fascism.
I challenge you to prove to me that the major U.S. daily papers are "proven dishonest media". Use statistics on accuracy, not conjecture or anecdotal evidence, please. And no, a few idiots attacking them isn't the definition of fascism. It's the spirit of what inspired them. More on that...
Furthermore, fascism USES the media, specifically nationalized media, as a propaganda machine. Thus far, the Trump adminsitration openly criticizes the media and frequently clashes with journalists. That is not the mark of fascism.
It uses the nationalized media AFTER THE FREE PRESS HAS BEEN DISMANTLED OR SUPPRESSED. In fact, Fox News is extraordinarily inaccurate on the whole and serves pretty much as that nationalized media for the Trump admin.
Clashing with the media as a politician IS normal. Calling them the enemies of America, fake news, trying to curb press freedoms and rights, and insinuating jail time for reporters IS the mark of fascism.
Furthermore, Fascism emphasizes a socialist based welfare state. The core economic component is strategically applied socialism and massive regulation, particularly socializing major industry (such as automotive, healthcare, and natural resources), government control over the entirety of the education system, and a strong government-influence media propaganda machine.
No, it doesn't. Where on earth did you learn that? Under fascist regimes, the power of the corporations is maintained and a welfare state is most certainly not an objective. But most importantly, fascism isn't an economic ideology and different fascist regimes employed different economic policies. While Italy offered welfare programs, Nazi Germany only offered assistance to people of certain racial qualifications as an attempt to harm others.
Trump does lean towards right wing populism in an authoritarian/autocratic manner...
Which, um, is the #1 hallmark of fascism.
...but his administration is heavily de-regulated and drastically minimized. Likewise, his emphasis on removing government influence from the economy and privatizing major industry and major programs (welfare, education, see DeVos), has absolutely no resemblance to fascism.
Again, corporate power is protected under fascism.
Barack Obama was an excellent example of a soft Fascist (although his roots were primarily Corporatism enforced by fascist political leanings), as were Johnson, FDR, and Woodrow Wilson. Both FDR and Wilson openly admitted to being fascist or having fascist tendencies. FDR was pen pals with Hitler and provided funding and research support to Hitler's early "Final Solution" programs via the American Eugenics Program. Woodrow Wilson openly praised the American Progressive (now "Liberal") movement as "the dawn of American Fascism" and openly stated that the American Progressives were the political brothers of Mussolini's "Fascisti" or "Fascist Party" in Italy at the time. O'Rourke, Occasio-Cortez, and Bernie Sanders are not examples of fascism either, as they lean strongly towards socialism. Kamala Harris is the closest thing we have to a fascist leader at the moment.
Lawd. Call Obama a lot of things. Bad president. Smug. Overboard with his EOs. But the man wasn't even close to fascist. No, FDR and Wilson did not openly admit to being fascist or having fascist tendencies. That's not true. They are often falsely labeled as such, especially FDR for the New Deal, and he did one time praise what Mussolini had accomplished. But neither embraced the ideology nor pushed the tenants of it. I mean, hell, Wilson pushed for the League of Nations. That's about as far from fascist as it comes.
I'm assuming you're operating on Jonah Goldberg's fallacious claims with Wilson and FDR in an attempt to paint fascism as a leftist cause. Yeah, that stuff has been proven inaccurate. FDR pen pals with Hitler? You mean the fact that he wrote letters to Hitler to urge peace? Okay. Guess he should have Skyped with him instead. And American Eugenics? You sure you didn't mean TEDDY Roosevelt? He actually did voice support for it. FDR and Congress weren't funding that, nor did it American Eugenics (as wrong as it was) support the Final Solution-type ideology of the Nazis.
Sorry, man. But I guess you could provide some airtight sources to help with my reading skills.
I challenge you to produce factual, undisputed sources proving the Wilson quotes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42020]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38168
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Ignore first reply, read this.
Feb 14, 2019, 3:41 PM
|
|
Italics are correct in this one.
First, I predict you will run away and not respond to this as you have all the other times I've ripped one of your posts to shreds. I welcome you proving me wrong.
Second, I've read more than you have or ever will. Actually, that's an absurd statement I can't prove, but since you set the tone for that, let's go. Next, you can falsely accuse me of being a former KGB agent with the other stuff you make up when replying to me.
Let's go!
The majority of Americans have a huge amount of distrust in the media, because we have many, many, many cases of the media openly lying about current events purely based on political motive. Just look at the Covington kids as the latest example.
Yes, you are right about the distrust, but you're confusing lies with mistakes. The NY Times still has a superb factual accuracy record despite the Covington goof (which they corrected), and I'll prove this with money down if we must.
A grassroots distrust of a proven dishonest media establishment is not fascism, a small group of immature ######## physically bullying a news crew is not fascism.
I challenge you to prove to me that the major U.S. daily papers are "proven dishonest media". Use statistics on accuracy, not conjecture or anecdotal evidence, please. And no, a few idiots attacking them isn't the definition of fascism. It's the spirit of what inspired them. More on that...
Furthermore, fascism USES the media, specifically nationalized media, as a propaganda machine. Thus far, the Trump adminsitration openly criticizes the media and frequently clashes with journalists. That is not the mark of fascism.
It uses the nationalized media AFTER THE FREE PRESS HAS BEEN DISMANTLED OR SUPPRESSED. In fact, Fox News is extraordinarily inaccurate on the whole and serves pretty much as that nationalized media for the Trump admin.
Clashing with the media as a politician IS normal. Calling them the enemies of America, fake news, trying to curb press freedoms and rights, and insinuating jail time for reporters IS the mark of fascism.
Furthermore, Fascism emphasizes a socialist based welfare state. The core economic component is strategically applied socialism and massive regulation, particularly socializing major industry (such as automotive, healthcare, and natural resources), government control over the entirety of the education system, and a strong government-influence media propaganda machine.
No, it doesn't. Where on earth did you learn that? Under fascist regimes, the power of the corporations is maintained and a welfare state is most certainly not an objective. But most importantly, fascism isn't an economic ideology and different fascist regimes employed different economic policies. While Italy offered welfare programs, Nazi Germany only offered assistance to people of certain racial qualifications as an attempt to harm others.
Trump does lean towards right wing populism in an authoritarian/autocratic manner...
Which, um, is the #1 hallmark of fascism.
...but his administration is heavily de-regulated and drastically minimized. Likewise, his emphasis on removing government influence from the economy and privatizing major industry and major programs (welfare, education, see DeVos), has absolutely no resemblance to fascism.
Again, corporate power is protected under fascism.
Barack Obama was an excellent example of a soft Fascist (although his roots were primarily Corporatism enforced by fascist political leanings), as were Johnson, FDR, and Woodrow Wilson. Both FDR and Wilson openly admitted to being fascist or having fascist tendencies. FDR was pen pals with Hitler and provided funding and research support to Hitler's early "Final Solution" programs via the American Eugenics Program. Woodrow Wilson openly praised the American Progressive (now "Liberal") movement as "the dawn of American Fascism" and openly stated that the American Progressives were the political brothers of Mussolini's "Fascisti" or "Fascist Party" in Italy at the time. O'Rourke, Occasio-Cortez, and Bernie Sanders are not examples of fascism either, as they lean strongly towards socialism. Kamala Harris is the closest thing we have to a fascist leader at the moment.
Lawd. Call Obama a lot of things. Bad president. Smug. Overboard with his EOs. But the man wasn't even close to fascist. No, FDR and Wilson did not openly admit to being fascist or having fascist tendencies. That's not true. They are often falsely labeled as such, especially FDR for the New Deal, and he did one time praise what Mussolini had accomplished. But neither embraced the ideology nor pushed the tenants of it. I mean, ####, Wilson pushed for the League of Nations. That's about as far from fascist as it comes.
I'm assuming you're operating on Jonah Goldberg's fallacious claims with Wilson and FDR in an attempt to paint fascism as a leftist cause. Yeah, that stuff has been proven inaccurate. FDR pen pals with Hitler? You mean the fact that he wrote letters to Hitler to urge peace? Okay. Guess he should have Skyped with him instead. And American Eugenics? You sure you didn't mean TEDDY Roosevelt? He actually did voice support for it. FDR and Congress weren't funding that, nor did it American Eugenics (as wrong as it was) support the Final Solution-type ideology of the Nazis.
Sorry, man. But I guess you could provide some airtight sources to help with my reading skills.
I challenge you to produce factual, undisputed sources proving the Wilson quotes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155628]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65708
Joined: 5/6/13
|
Figures....
Feb 15, 2019, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Fun times in America ] |
|
Leave the erroneous article up, and post a retraction that no one reads. #FAKENEWZ #NOTMYMEDIA
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 61
| visibility 861
|
|
|
50
