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110%er [6513]
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Question about current recruiting for the pros
Jun 25, 2018, 1:32 PM
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I am aware star listings are very imperfect and stars are everywhere, and that even 5*s can be duds. However, in my 10+ years following recruiting, I have noticed star ratings are actually somewhat accurate, with those exceptions.
My question is is Dabo stockpiling quality depth with this class, taking so many 3*s, since he this'll be a large class? Or, is he seeing that many diamonds undervalued in the rankings?
Please note, I would never question the coaches, as I have a minuscule amount of knowledge of football compared to them, but this seems uncharacteristic.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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Don't let people convince you that stars don't matter.
Jun 25, 2018, 1:57 PM
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per rivals: since 2002 28 different teams have landed at least ONE top10 class...........16 of them have played in the playoffs and/or for a national championship.
32 teams (some repeats) have played for the national championship since 2002. ALL but 6 averaged a top 10 class in the 4 years leading up to their NC appearance. See exceptions below:
2007 OSU - 4yr class rank average - 13th
2010 Auburn - 4yr class rank average - 12th
2010 Oregon - 4yr class rank average - 18th
2011 Notre Dame - 4yr class rank average - 11th
2015 Clemson - 4yr class rank average - 11th
2014 Oregon - 4yr class rank average - 18th
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110%er [6513]
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Re: Don't let people convince you that stars don't matter.
Jun 25, 2018, 6:39 PM
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Good answer, but only Auburn won the NC on that list. Does this mean we need the higher stars to win, not just show?
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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possibly b/c we had a 4yr average of 9 when we won in 2016
Jun 26, 2018, 8:40 AM
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it starts with landing top 10-15 recruiting classes on a consistent basis. The rest is made up of scheme, coaching staff, team cohesion, etc...
yes we had and have some "under the radar" players that are key components to our team succuss, but national championships are won and played for by having the 4/5star superstars to go along with the others.
I'm not saying the sky is falling with this class, but don't kid yourself into thinking that dabo & co. can just roll out any 3star loaded team and "coach them up to champions" just b/c they "get who they fits our program"........our last 2-3 classes were loaded with HIGH QUALITY talent (ie 4/5stars)..........if you see a dip in our average star ranking over the next 2-4 recruiting classes then you'll see a dip in our on field success, but we shouldn't fret just yet.
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All-In [46433]
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Re: Question about current recruiting for the pros
Jun 25, 2018, 1:58 PM
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We are recruiting as good or better than ever to have a big class. Many of the 3stars will be 4 stars but trust Dabo and crew. We have one of the top two programs in college football understand we are rated number 3 by rivals and number 4 by 247 in recruiting for the 2019 class with 18 recruits.
Our last two classes were small and had great quality but this one will be bigger so you are recruiting several guys to the same positions too. If you ask me finishing number 3 or number 4 in recruiting would be the best we have ever done. We develop players and pick winners!
Go Dabo Go Tigers!
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Legend [18407]
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Re: Question about current recruiting for the pros
Jun 25, 2018, 3:21 PM
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We're currently 3rd. as of last ranking but we won't stay there unless we have an awful lot of those 3's turn into 4's or the last 10 are all 5's. We will most likely finish around 15 with the current per * rating.
This is not a knock on recruiting, just the way it usually happens for such a big class and a somewhat down year for highly rated talent. We'll be in good shape though. A lot of talent in those 3* because of the teams that recruited them.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Another trend happening nationally that we're seeing here
Jun 25, 2018, 8:39 PM
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Is that a lot of the 3* guys are committing early and claiming their spots and the blue chip guys are waiting because they know they can. Our ranking right now is inflated because we have so many commits but the average player rating is a little low because of the absence of the blue chips that have yet to commit. Not to mention a few of our current 3* will likely add a 4th star as more rankings come out during the season.
Comparing this year's class to last year's class is also irresponsible because this one is twice the size that one was and we hit on an outrageous percentage of elite players that just isn't sustainable. The large class, combined with the fact that a lot of our normally fertile recruiting grounds aren't quite as fertile this year and the class isn't as chock full of superstars as we've grown accustomed to but I do think we already have some players in the fold that can make a big impact as Tigers and several more that will be joining in the next few months.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st
Jun 25, 2018, 2:14 PM
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I think the staff did a good job getting in on a few seemingly underrated players early, but they've also had to lower the standards a bit this year to sign a 30 man class. Compare that to what, 20 and 17 the previous two years?
This is a fairly unprecedented situation that we've arrived in, and I'm not 100% sure how it happened (a long series of small events that eventually added up to something big i think), but it's very rare to see a program with this many open scholarships in one year that isn't coming off a coaching change or coming back off sanctions or something of that nature. Considering how successful and how stable the program has been recently, it's pretty bizarre that this happened.
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CU Guru [1259]
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Re: My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st
Jun 25, 2018, 2:27 PM
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I mean you got to think of all the transfers we have had as well. If those guys over say past 2 years, then this class would prob be normal prob high of 25 man class. With transfers and people leaving bc of senior or pro after this season we have room for Big 30 recruit class. Nothing the coaches did as far as not recruiting enough guys in the past few cycles we just have had more transfers than usual and Dabo doesn’t oversign to make up for transfers, he commits to the recruit as well. So when a lot of guys transfer within a short time it adds good bit of extra spots for this class. This class has a lot of great talent that might have to develop more than high 4 stars but feel most will contribute even though they are 3 stars. We still have plenty of room for the big boys we are going after but we also needed to add depth. If we get 30 guys then we got 12 spots left which is half a class for some teams amd more than half of our past class, got plenty of room for the big names like crouch, booth, and a lot more haha. This class is going to be very good and will continue Clemson’s elite status. Go Tigers!!
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Scout Team [170]
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Re: My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st
Jun 25, 2018, 3:35 PM
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WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RULE THAT ONLY ALLOWS YOU TO BRING IN 25 IN ANY ONE YEAR?
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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It exists, but you can count a certain number of players
Jun 26, 2018, 7:33 AM
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(apparently up to 5) back to the previous class if they enroll early. We only signed 17 last year so there's room in that class to count some of the 2019 players. That's going to allow the coaches to sign around 30 guys this year.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st
Jun 25, 2018, 6:10 PM
[ in reply to My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st ] |
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But are we signing players that will never play a down for us just for the sake of signing someone? If so, that clogs our roster. Most of these guys will likely remain 3-star players incapable of playing our schedule. I don't get it!
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st
Jun 25, 2018, 6:30 PM
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They are signing kids that might play meaningful snaps for us but aren’t locks to. Like stated your high 4 star and 5 stars pan out more times than not. In a big class we can take a shot. Cash has unbelievable production at 6A ball in Georgia but has a limited body for college. He is a tweener between and 3 tech and 5 tech depending on how is body fills out and how athletic he is with the weight. He’s not a natural athlete but has unbelievable technique and production. That doesn’t lead to high stars but maybe worth the risk?
Then you have guys like Williams and Ruke who are athletic freaks but limited game film. They have what you can’t teach and with a big class coaches think they are worth the spot in hopes of what could be if athletics meets coaching.
Then you have head scratchers like a few safeties who try really really hard and are a feel good story. But they will give everything they have and probably contribute on special teams.
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All-In [40736]
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Yeah the Ryan Carters, J Davis’s, TJ Greens, Adam Humphries, Hunter Renfrows
Jun 25, 2018, 8:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: My opinion is that it's both, but a little more of the 1st ] |
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Grady Jarretts etc. etc. never play a down at Clemson. Dabo doesn’t offer guys just to offer guys and fill up the roster with scrubs you coot. This is why we keep taking your yardbirds to the woodshed every year.
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All-In [30766]
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The coaches are recruiting the kids they want
Jun 25, 2018, 2:15 PM
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Can it be that simple?
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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In what sense? You mean selecting the 30 guys they want
Jun 25, 2018, 2:17 PM
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the most in this class and getting all of them? That sounds pretty naive.
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All-In [30766]
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Do you think they are recruiting kids they don't want?
Jun 25, 2018, 2:29 PM
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I didn't mention anything about getting. . No1 will know who got who until next february. Even commitments at this point are flaky.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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I would imagine they have a board of guys that they
Jun 25, 2018, 2:34 PM
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feel fit the program and they work down that board. I would never suggest otherwise. I don't think Dabo is the kind of guy that's going to go sign somebody that doesn't fit the program just because he's a big name.
The only real question is how far down the board are they having to go this year?
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All-In [30766]
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I don't know the board so I'll never know .
Jun 25, 2018, 2:41 PM
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I can only guess it is constantly changing and the kids dabo use recruiting are the kids he wants, for whatever reasons.
I'll just know who to welcome to clemson in December and February. ... regardless of stars and rankings.
The rest will take care of itself.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: In what sense? You mean selecting the 30 guys they want
Jun 25, 2018, 6:14 PM
[ in reply to In what sense? You mean selecting the 30 guys they want ] |
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I mean that this recruiting class seems really weak compared to our prior classes. You just don't win with a bunch of 3# players.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Yea that would be a weak class with 3 pound players!!!
Jun 25, 2018, 9:46 PM
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Surely you are still in elementary school or should return if not.
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Legend [16646]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Question about current recruiting for the pros
Jun 25, 2018, 6:00 PM
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I'm no expert, but it strikes me as strange that a top program such as ours is recruiting so many 3-stars. Okay, the star system is not perfect but statics indicates that they do mean something, and I think that it is concerning that we aren't apparently recruiting the top HS athletes in the land. Okay, I realize that development is something, but your really can't develop beyond the ceiling imposed by a player's natural ability. This trend is really concerning to me as a fan. I mean, would we have recruited a 3-star QB instead of Trevor Lawrence, saying that "Oh well, there's no difference between the two?" No, no, and another no. Our recruiting is apparently breaking down somewhere. JMHO.
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Legend [16646]
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You're correct...
Jun 25, 2018, 6:14 PM
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You're no expert. Leave it at that....
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110%er [6513]
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Re: You're correct...
Jun 25, 2018, 6:37 PM
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Lol
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Yes, and here's why...
Jun 25, 2018, 7:18 PM
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Recruiting services start with a premise. Their thesis on each player's star award is set out for them by the top coaches. Recruiting evaluations are base on which coach goes after the recruit and how hard they pursue him. How can you go wrong if you give a kid that's offered by Bama, AU, UGA, LSU, Clemson, ND, OSU, PSU, UM and half a dozen other top programs?
That's also why so many 1-2 and 3 stars are playing on Sunday. The services miss exactly what the coaches miss. Somebody finds a jewel hidden in a small community who is playing on a team which can't support his talent and the jewel ends up playing on Sunday.
Questioning a coach like Dabo or Nick is really kinda foolish since the proof is in the pudding.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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CU Guru [1322]
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Clemson’s presence on the recruiting sites
Jun 25, 2018, 8:12 PM
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247 & Rivals is smaller than most other schools in our region/weight class. Without these paid subscribers, the staff that covers and rates our prospects is smaller.
Money/clicks is still the driving reason behind these ratings.
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