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This is looking really, really bad for Trump
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This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 8, 2020, 9:44 PM

Keep in mind, the Supreme Court rules on Trump's tax returns tomorrow. I've been eyeing this case for awhile now. That could be a dagger in the heart for Trump; there's a definite reason the man has fought so vociferously to keep his taxes from being released...and my personal belief is, those forms would show pretty clearly he was laundering Russian mob money through Deutsche Bank. (The Russians bailed him out four different times after Western banks stopped lending him money after his bankruptcies...the Dems wrong-headedly looked for political conspiracy when I think what they should have been looking for was old-fashioned white-collar financial crime. Trump wasn't a politician, he was a - crooked! - businessman. His crimes involving Russia pre-2016 were going to be financial crimes, not political ones. Whatever...there's something in those returns he obviously really doesn't want people seeing.)

Even if the Court denies those seeking Trump's tax forms the right to them (unlikely, the laws are pretty clear), or more likely, punt and defer in an attempt to drag things out well past November, that doesn't help Trump so much as just keep status quo alive. (But it could also be another live grenade waiting to go off.)

And the current status quo is dire enough for Trump...and indeed, the entire GOP regarding November. The Cook Report says Republicans - who tethered themselves pretty inextricably to Trump by refusing to impeach him - are indeed getting dragged down across the country. They already project that Joe has his 270...and that's before even the "lean Democrat" or "toss-up" states are even counted.

This is if nothing else bad happens for Trump. But if there's one thing Trump seems good for, it's serial disasters.

https://cookpolitical.com/index.php/analysis/national/national-politics/new-july-2020-electoral-college-ratings


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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 8, 2020, 9:50 PM

thats terrible, really terrible

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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 8, 2020, 9:57 PM

How about getting Biden’s senate records unsealed? I mean he was a public servant. Why are those protected? How about yours? Post your tax returns on tigernet. Lead by example.

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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 9, 2020, 8:05 AM



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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 8, 2020, 10:08 PM

"clearly he was laundering Russian mob money"



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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 8, 2020, 10:50 PM

It's not a big reach. Russian culture is mobbed up; there's not a big line between the government, private industry, and the mob, and the oligarchs are one part politician, one part businessman, and of course, one part mafia don. A lot of their gains are ill-gotten gains and they like to squirrel those gains away in Western banks. Putin uses Gazprom as his own personal piggy bank and some claim he may have as much as $250 billion dollars stashed in Western banks.

But first that money must be laundered so it no longer traces back to them, or it could be seized. The easiest way to do that is real-estate flips with really overpriced real estate. Paul Manafort is in jail in no small part because of this.

And hey: who do we know who has a lot of massively overpriced real estate that is filled with Russian oligarchs, Saudi oil princes, and International arms dealers?

The scam is this, and it's very common:
https://www.curbed.com/2018/8/10/17674584/money-laundering-real-estate-paul-manafort-trial


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Even if they are released it will fall flat as


Jul 8, 2020, 10:08 PM

a tom brady football.

Those who are in the cult will claim that "every businessman has taxes that look like that"

Those who are against Trump will decry it as always. Those in the middle probably won't care if it's white collar because many in the middle are not white collar workers.

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I like your funny words magic man


Re: Even if they are released it will fall flat as


Jul 8, 2020, 10:10 PM

IF trump has anything illegal in his tax returns,

Obama's crooked IRS would have found that and printed it in the NY Times four years ago

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Rachel Maddow had that exclusive


Jul 8, 2020, 10:12 PM



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Re: Rachel Maddow had that exclusive


Jul 8, 2020, 10:16 PM

most likely paid feed/send a lot of children to go to school with all his property taxes

he is a turrible man!

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Re: Even if they are released it will fall flat as


Jul 8, 2020, 10:56 PM [ in reply to Even if they are released it will fall flat as ]

I don't think so.

There's something there, something especially sensitive. It's one thing to be a businessman, it's another thing entirely to be an international money launderer, especially for Russian oligarchs who are some of the world's worst actors at the moment.

It also might be a thing that won't cost him a ton of his hard-core support...but it could easily be something that lands him in jail after he leaves office. Paul Manafort went away for years and his crimes were small potatoes compared to the circles Trump moves in. If the Donald was doing what a lot of folks suspect he was doing, that's not something that's going to just go away.

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Re: Even if they are released it will fall flat as


Jul 9, 2020, 1:17 AM

IDK Quozz, something tells me that trump has dirt on a lot of powerful people, and much like his former neighbor Jeffery Epstein, there are a ton of people whose interest it is to never see him speak under oath in a courtroom. the SDNY will need Eliot Ness himself to get this man on the stand or thrown behind bars.

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Re: Even if they are released it will fall flat as


Jul 9, 2020, 1:34 AM



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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 8, 2020, 10:10 PM



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It's your life ...


Jul 8, 2020, 10:28 PM

but you may have spent way too much time and effort on that.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Trump is fighting hard to keep his...


Jul 8, 2020, 10:44 PM

taxes hidden for the same reason Obama kept his birth certificate hidden. It's because people have a right to privacy. If Trump gives an inch the left will be wanting to weigh his turds and have them examined for illegal alien DNA. That's how nutty you guys are about getting in power.

Three years of impeachment talk, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, then Ukraine, then RUSSIA again. Witch hunt after witch hunt. Batchit.

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One thing I want to make sure you understand........


Jul 8, 2020, 10:53 PM

His tax records haven't been buried in a hole in the back corner of Mar-a-lago. The IRS had and continues to have full visibility of them, and they have really smart people who can uncover things like money laundering. Furthermore, there have very likely been some people who don't like Trump at the IRS who have the ability to scrutinize his tax records, and I'm sure they have, with nary an internal leak to be found.

Long story short, if there's some grand mob scheme, it wouldn't come to light just because of the records being made public. If anything resembling your conspiracy theory existed, it would have been discovered, prosecuted and/or leaked to every major outlet by now.

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Re: One thing I want to make sure you understand........


Jul 8, 2020, 10:57 PM

Not if the cutout was Deutsche Bank. And that's exactly what the SDNY is after.

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Again, it's your understanding that if there were


Jul 8, 2020, 11:01 PM

anything remotely fishy going on, the IRS would not have pursued it fully? How are you seeing this and highly educated and trained forensic accountants are whiffing on it? What is the roadblock currently in place for them to investigate that would be removed by the ruling tomorrow?

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They can leak the returns and the dems in the house can...


Jul 8, 2020, 11:07 PM

make policial hay. That's all they want, another witch hunt which will carry through Nov.

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Re: Again, it's your understanding that if there were


Jul 8, 2020, 11:07 PM [ in reply to Again, it's your understanding that if there were ]

Well, don't take my word on it. Read on it.

The case is this, and this is exactly WHY it's being decided by the Supreme Court:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/08/supreme-court-trump-tax-returns-financial-records-353428

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Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it.


Jul 8, 2020, 11:19 PM

Again, the powers the be in the IRS have full view of these records. You're claiming blatant Russian mob money laundering and you believe it will only come to light with the release of the records. So for your claim to be true, one must believe (no strawman, this is just a logic exercise) that:

1) The IRS, and their thousands of employees of all political ideologies, for many, many years have either chosen to ignore Trump's scheme, or been too incompetent to catch it (but you have caught it using far less experience and accounting training).

2) The NY DA's office has far greater financial investigative power and deeper forensic accounting resources than the IRS.

3) The President of the United States...the most powerful (and possibly hated) man in the world who has had leaks about every aspect of his life......was engaged in a Russian mob money laundering scheme and there isn't one interested partisan in the IRS who would blow the whistle on it if it were being covered up at some level.

I can't say I agree with everything you post, but at least you tend to back it up. Not on this one...this is confirmation bias on your part at best, and a rapid descent off the deep end at worst. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and presume the former.

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Re: Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it.


Jul 8, 2020, 11:22 PM



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Re: Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it.


Jul 8, 2020, 11:45 PM [ in reply to Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it. ]

Okay. Your opinion. We'll see where it goes. Long story short, there's some private-side entities that are routinely described as "oligarch money laundries" within Deutsche Bank that were doing some really weird lending to Trump that did not square with the bank's official valuations...and they kept lending even though rationality and the bank's public division didn't think they should have. At all.

The links aren't hard to see but they're also under seal. The press knows about them...but they won't (or can't, actually) touch the story because nobody will - or can, legally! - go on record about what's privately known (or at least strongly suspected) until these records are unsealed.

I know a bit of this because a friend of mine works for the Tallahassee Democrat - which isn't exactly Democratic-leaning - and she told me more than two years ago there was Russian mob money all over Trump's properties.

FWIW.

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I'll just say this. If you are correct,


Jul 8, 2020, 11:49 PM

the IRS should just be burned to the ground, and this theory alone being correct could destroy the concept of Occam's razor forever.

I think it's one or a combination of two things

1) He's worth a lot, lot less than he claims, which matters to him.
2) He's availed himself of loopholes galore that common folks really detest.


Both instances are PR nightmares, but fully legal.

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Re: I'll just say this. If you are correct,


Jul 9, 2020, 12:06 AM

So, #1 also seems very likely. He has hammered that from day one and his ardent supporters echo it: He's supposedly a brilliant man and leader because of all his money. Maybe it really just boils down to ego.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


sounds like your friend has a scoop, why doesn't she


Jul 8, 2020, 11:58 PM [ in reply to Re: Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it. ]

write something?

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Re: sounds like your friend has a scoop, why doesn't she


Jul 9, 2020, 12:09 AM

She didn't "have" anything. Which is why she couldn't write anything. Besides which, it's not her department so it wouldn't have been her writing it anyhow. But people in offices talk, and I found it a fascinating bit of gossip.

Getting access to those financial records and finding out who's behind the curtain at Deutsche Bank is the whole point.

I mean, they know. It's not hard to see who's living in those properties or affiliated with the ownership groups that own them, especially in New York and Florida where Trump's properties are. But it's another thing altogether to prove what they're doing, especially when the entities involved have some very distinct reasons not to be forthcoming.

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Re: Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it.


Jul 9, 2020, 12:30 PM [ in reply to Ok, I read it. None of my questions are answered by it. ]

I think you're right about the IRS Obed, they've certainly had a chance to find fraud and it doesn't appear they have.

But what the 3 committees are trying to get as well as the DA in NY is troves of financial records besides his tax returns. For example, Michael Cohen testified before Congress that Trump would inflate the value of his properties to get loans, and then deflate them to pay taxes. The IRS would not have the information in loan applications nor the correspondence between Trump Org and Deutsche Bank and other entities.

I don't think the tax returns themselves are likely to prove much beyond income from sources like Deutche Bank, Russian banks if any, Turkish banks. One must remember that Trump has properties in many countries. The financial records being held by Mazars Accounting include far more than just taxes.

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Re: Again, it's your understanding that if there were


Jul 8, 2020, 11:20 PM [ in reply to Re: Again, it's your understanding that if there were ]



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This outlines the process


Jul 8, 2020, 11:28 PM [ in reply to Again, it's your understanding that if there were ]



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HOLY CRAP!!!!


Jul 8, 2020, 11:45 PM [ in reply to One thing I want to make sure you understand........ ]

I didn't have to list my Russian money laundering on my taxes!?!?!

I need a new CPA

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Yep***


Jul 9, 2020, 9:10 AM [ in reply to One thing I want to make sure you understand........ ]



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I agree with you, but...


Jul 9, 2020, 11:49 AM [ in reply to One thing I want to make sure you understand........ ]

it could be that the prosecutors have potential evidence of fraud that requires the taxes and financial records to verify. It may not be that the evidence is in the tax returns, the evidence may be what was not reported or how it was reported.

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What appears to be the scariest thing going into Nov.


Jul 8, 2020, 11:33 PM

1. Trump won't accept if he's about to lose, and will get more drastic in his actions.
2. He'll try to stir up his base more into thinking those Americans who don't support him are enemies of America. He did this in his July 4 speech.
3. He won't go quietly once he loses.
4. His most radical base will truly believe he didn't legitimately lose, that it was a rigged election by "the left," and they will try to oppose it violently. Trump will encourage them to do so.

Wannabe despots don't leave office quietly or willingly once legitimately removed.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Man you have one vivid imagination.***


Jul 8, 2020, 11:37 PM



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I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 8, 2020, 11:38 PM [ in reply to What appears to be the scariest thing going into Nov. ]

man required to believe such a scenario happening at any serious level.

1) Maybe, but I'd say he's seemed a lot more mellow and resigned to a likely loss in the last week or two.

2) Eh, maybe, but what he said is no different from what other politicians have said. Not whatabouting, just saying that similar depictions of the "other half" (deplorables, anyone?) by other politicans haven't given them some sudden massive militia.

3) Can't disagree with you there, but it'll only be so much wind-farting and self-promoting.

4) They might, but the end result will be no different than those who felt wronged when Gore or Clinton lost...probably fewer cars flipped over and burned.

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Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 8, 2020, 11:47 PM

1. What makes you think that?
2. No, not at all. I can't recall a sitting president who so openly labeled so many fellow Americans as enemies of our nation. He's lumped all that opposition to him in with the extremists like the looters, and compared defeating those people to our victory in WWII.
3. Word.
4. I hope you're right, but those upset over Gore were the namby pamby type, not these AR-toting quasi-revolutionaries who have been itching for a civil war since Trump's election.

Hell, look at the struggle our police forces have had with these looters and rioters. What if the core idiocy of Trumpism takes up arms and does the same thing?

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 8, 2020, 11:51 PM



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Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 8, 2020, 11:53 PM

I criticized Trump for having peaceful protesters tear gassed and beaten for a BS photo op where he pretended to be a Christian man.

Those weren't the same as the people looting and rioting.

You do understand those weren't all the same people, right?

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 8, 2020, 11:56 PM



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Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 9, 2020, 12:02 AM

Dude, just because someone was out demonstrating in front of the White House doesn't mean that same person was out burning down businesses in DuPont Circle later that night and vice versa.

At that moment (and during all the times at the White House), the demonstrations were peaceful, and curfew had not yet taken place. He had authorities tear gas them and beat them for a stupid photo op.

Video evidence contradicts the Park Police claims.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow


Jul 9, 2020, 12:11 AM



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Regarding the last point.....


Jul 8, 2020, 11:52 PM [ in reply to Re: I am grateful that I don't have the cynicism in my fellow ]

In the current environment we find ourselves in, it's a lot more politically correct to react with force to Trump-loving Jimbos than it is to people claiming to fight for racial equality.

Police forces and the military would be turned on them in a way that made the Branch Davidians look measured and gentle. You got nuthin to worry about.

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Re: Regarding the last point.....


Jul 8, 2020, 11:55 PM

I hope and think you're right, but any loss of life over this election will be a ####### tragedy and dark day in American history.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


And that was a bit of a tangent....on topic, what do


Jul 8, 2020, 11:40 PM [ in reply to What appears to be the scariest thing going into Nov. ]

you think about quozzel's thread-starting opinion that there's some clear cut Russian money laundering that can and will only come to light once his tax records are revealed?

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Re: And that was a bit of a tangent....on topic, what do


Jul 8, 2020, 11:49 PM

Not a tangent as he outlined the upcoming election scenario.

As for the tax records, I think as you said, the IRS probably would have already hit him hard. I think we'll see that Trump has connections to some really ###### people, probably Russians as well, but that the transactions were legal. Maybe some Epstein-level stuff or something.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: And that was a bit of a tangent....on topic, what do


Jul 8, 2020, 11:49 PM [ in reply to And that was a bit of a tangent....on topic, what do ]

...and that Mazars and Deutsche Bank have to cough up his returns.

If it's bogus, why the heck has Trump fought it all the way to the Supreme Court?

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Well, I have a theory on that.


Jul 8, 2020, 11:52 PM

We know the man baby simply doesn't like to be told what to do, or to be told what his business is, so he may have just fought all of this out of principle to prove a point. And maybe to set up a grand, "Ah ha! Told you nothing was there!" kind of moment.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Trump will do that regardless.


Jul 9, 2020, 8:18 AM

As FBCoachSC® said, if the returns are released, people who already think Trump is guilty will see evidence of guilt, and Trump cultists will believe whatever Trump says about them.

Trumpers think "no collusion, no obstruction" because they parrot whatever Trump says, and never read the Mueller Report. Tax returns won't be any different.

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Weird,


Jul 9, 2020, 8:51 AM

If I didn’t know your stance on over-generalized “sides”, i would think you were talking about over-generalized sides.

Also, wouldn’t the even-handed opposite of “people who think he is guilty” be something other than “cultists”? Like maybe “people who think he is not guilty”?

In this very thread both cata and I have detailed reasons we believe he likely wouldn’t want the returns released for things that are quite legal. Are we “cultists”?

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Re: Weird,


Jul 9, 2020, 9:43 AM

I'm very glad that many people, including you and Cata, reserve judgment until the facts are in. Of course you aren't cultists.

Please note that I'm not calling this a Left/Right "teams" thing. I'm talking not about vague generalities. I'm talking about the actual responses we saw to the Mueller Report, and I'm saying we'll see those actual responses to the tax returns (if they're released--I suspect they won't be). There will be plenty of us who will simply want to know the truth of things.

If quozzel's tax-return-shows-Russian-laundering theory is true (which I highly doubt), then there will be a substantial group of people who ignore the facts, parrot whatever narrative they receive from their propaganda sources, and insist that Trump is being unfairly maligned. I call these people cultists because it seems identical to a cult mentality. Watch for 3 or 4 Tnetters all starting new threads with the same lie as it gets circulated through a certain set of dishonest "news" outlets.

The Trump-is-always-guilty people are less cult-like in that (a) they don't have a cult leader (like Trump), and (b) there are actually facts about Trump's guilt so it's not utter insanity. They are still loopy insofar as they cannot see reality clearly and are emotionally unable to think of something positive about Trump.

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Re: Weird,


Jul 9, 2020, 10:50 AM

I don't think he's "always guilty"...but similarly, given his history, I don't understand why people don't see the obvious picture with the guy.

Trump is a lousy businessman who can't do basic math and trusts his gut over the professional judgment of any "expert", so there's no advising him, period. It's been documented through tax returns that have been unearthed that from 1985-1994 Trump literally lost more money than anyone else in America:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/07/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html

We also know that Trump filed four Chapter 11 bankruptcies, starting in 1991, and he also has a laundry list of failed businesses. Per Snopes:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2016/08/01/donald-trumps-bankruptcies/

At this point, Western banks stopped lending Trump money because he was considered a bad risk, for obvious reasons. But then all of a sudden, Russian investors - meaning, oligarchs - started throwing money at him.

Why?

Well, the reason seems fairly obvious. Trump was drowning but he had a big (and legitimate!) name and the ability to move a ton of money, and a lot of very expensive properties it would be easy to do real-estate flips with.

If you're an oligarch looking to wash your cash, isn't Trump just the perfect front-man for that endeavor?

To me it seems a fairly...obvious arrangement. Why does everybody think the oligarch-controlled Russian banks were throwing money at Trump again? The goodness of their hearts? His winning personality?

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Re: Weird,


Jul 9, 2020, 9:47 AM [ in reply to Weird, ]

I think more to his point is that even if these tax returns show blatant criminal wrongdoing, there will be people here who will immediately defend him regardless, and their arguments will sound suspiciously identical to the defenses pushed by Hannity and other Fox talking heads.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Re: Weird,


Jul 9, 2020, 10:31 AM

Well, I guess we're going to find out. 7-2 ruling. Ouchie for Team Trump.

The SDNY now has Mazars and Deustsche Bank by the testes. It'll be...fascinating to see what they are compelled to cough up.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/jul/09/scotus-donald-trump-tax-returns-us-coronavirus-news-fauci-


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Re: Weird,


Jul 9, 2020, 10:34 AM

...but they told Congress to go back to the court and hash it out.

It means Congress won't be getting their hands on stuff to leak it, anyhow.

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It's time for Trump to whip out...


Jul 8, 2020, 11:42 PM [ in reply to What appears to be the scariest thing going into Nov. ]

the 15th point of fascism...16th if absolutely necessary.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-franc1968.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


he's so facist that he's making up his own points of facism***


Jul 8, 2020, 11:46 PM



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I would say he wrote the book on it...


Jul 8, 2020, 11:48 PM

but I'm sure he paid somebody to do it.

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he's writing vol II in between tweets***


Jul 8, 2020, 11:53 PM



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They just filled Joe in on all this tax stuff...


Jul 8, 2020, 11:56 PM



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or he's trying to figure out why his crotch is all wet***


Jul 8, 2020, 11:59 PM



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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 9, 2020, 10:38 AM

The media will twist his tax returns no matter what they say. Liberals will turn on Rachel Maddow after they are released and see him whining over nothing and say I told you so. Orange man cheated on his taxes !11!!!!!!!

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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 9, 2020, 11:55 AM

Ruling today ..
It seems regardless they won’t be available prior to the election...

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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Jul 9, 2020, 1:21 PM

You have all the evidence. Schiff? Is that you? You should take all of that to the FBI, not tigernet.

May find out that Trump took money from Putin, you know, like the Clinton foundation did.

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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Sep 27, 2020, 11:18 PM

He’s just paying back the Russians he collided with to beat hilldawg

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Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump


Sep 27, 2020, 11:19 PM

colluded

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Charlie Sheen hasn't done bumps this big.***


Sep 27, 2020, 11:20 PM [ in reply to Re: This is looking really, really bad for Trump ]



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You are a bad man***


Sep 28, 2020, 12:14 AM



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