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Replies: 24
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CU Guru [1046]
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dont see why 2014 defense is praised so highly
Aug 7, 2017, 9:24 PM
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Combing through their games and stats, i wouldnt put that D over the 2016 and definitely not 2017 squads.
Of the 22 guys on 2deep, there are less than 3 (maybe only Mac Alexander as the only 1!) guys I woulda taken over the current teams positional players
Honestly dont see why it keeps getting touted so highly. yds/game and pts/game rarely tell the whole story. with a championship on the line, hard to pick against the combinations we had last yr
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CU Guru [1046]
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for reference:
Aug 7, 2017, 9:27 PM
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Corey crawf
grady
deshawn/josh watson
vic (ive always said btw shaq as a freshman > vic and ferrell > vic too)
stephone anthony
tony steward
korin wiggins
mac alexander
cordrea
jayron
robert smith
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Walk-On [144]
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Re: dont see why 2014 defense is praised so highly
Aug 7, 2017, 9:35 PM
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Without that defense we don't win 6 games much less the 10 they actually did. They finished the season giving up 50 yards less per game than the 2015 and 2016 defenses and were the #1 statistical defense in the country. Hard to argue with those results.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Dumb post...
Aug 7, 2017, 9:52 PM
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You must not have watched many of the games...
Numbers and stats dont tell the whole story. Dont forget that the offense couldnt keep the defense off the field when Watson wasnt playing QB
Just among the starters, you have:
Vic - 1st round pick
Stephone - 1st round pick
Mac - 2nd round pick
Grady - 5th round pick
Steward - 6th round pick
Kearse - 7th round pick (who was playing like a 2nd round pick at this time)
Backups who would later get drafted included
DJ Reader, Shaq, C Watkins, Dodd, TJ Green
Grady Jarrett was one of the most underrated
players by those on the outside, but man, I don't think there has been a more polarizing leader on this team in a very long time (except maybe Boulware.)
Anthony was a true leader as well who I would take over anybody else we have had at LB since then. Steward was a former 5 star recruit.
Beasley speaks for himself.... broke the Clemson all time sack record
2-deep at DL was deep and experienced. All vocal leaders and hard workers
R Smith and Garry Peters were unsung guys in the backfield who were very solid and physical
2014 defense was experienced, determined, and MEAN. Lots of underrated guys who played with chips on their shoulders. If watson got 100% of the snaps, we would have been in national title contention.
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All-In [40767]
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^ Exactly ^
Aug 7, 2017, 10:13 PM
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And just as the above poster said the stats don't tell the half of it. That CS led offense kept them on the field a lot more than they should have been.
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CU Guru [1046]
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draft picks dont make a team
Aug 7, 2017, 10:55 PM
[ in reply to Dumb post... ] |
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its exactly why ferrell > beasley, boulwares smarts > stephones athleticism, and jadars passion > jayron
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CU Guru [1746]
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The truth is we've had some awesome players
Aug 7, 2017, 11:18 PM
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But I'd go with Vic and Anthony over Ferrell and Boulware.
Anthony was pretty smart too and also a 5 star recruit and lived up to the hype, first round pick and NFL starter.
Beasley was as dominant, if not the most dominant pass rusher in Clemson history .....his NFL career has proved that also. Ferrell had a solid second half of the season and a dominant playoff performance...his time is coming.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Re: draft picks dont make a team
Aug 8, 2017, 12:04 AM
[ in reply to draft picks dont make a team ] |
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Anthony was every bit as smart as Boulware and was just as good of a leader too
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Anthony would have been an upgrade over Boulware
Aug 8, 2017, 12:14 AM
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As a player. Love me some BB but Stephone was a really special player
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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Well, you asked why it was praised so highly...
Aug 8, 2017, 12:13 AM
[ in reply to draft picks dont make a team ] |
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Maybe because it contained
3 future 1st round picks (including NFL savk leader)
3 future 2nd round picks
+
Grady Jarrett
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CU Guru [1243]
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Re: dont see why 2014 defense is praised so highly
Aug 7, 2017, 9:54 PM
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Then you need to watch more games, dude.
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110%er [8681]
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Re: dont see why 2014 defense is praised so highly
Aug 7, 2017, 10:03 PM
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That defense was nasty and never really did get any help from the offense, hell we beat Louisville without even scoring an offensive TD. To put things in perspective that Defensive had a 1.37 defensive efficiency rating which ranks 3rd in the last 10 years, only behind 2011 and 2016 Alabama. The 2015 and 2016 defenses had a .81 and .84 rating respectively. The amount of talent and depth was unreal on that defense, the 2nd team on that defense would have easily been a top 15 defense in itself. There's a reason why Venables (not just fans) calls that the gold standard.
Here's the link for reference: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2014
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Hall of Famer [24545]
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DAPOTD!!!!!***
Aug 7, 2017, 10:04 PM
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Heisman Winner [111580]
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Re: dont see why 2014 defense is praised so highly
Aug 7, 2017, 10:12 PM
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thought the defense was pretty good last year too, we just ran into a lot of high powered offenses. But we also completely shut down several teams and held them well under their season averages. I think it is hard for the talking heads to admit that the ACC was the dominant conference.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Orange Blooded [3562]
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Re: Wow. That defense was #1 in the country in pretty much
Aug 7, 2017, 11:19 PM
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2014 was a great defense and Vic finished with school record for sacks at 32. ACC Defensive POY. He's just one of that team (now) NFL players that proved that was a great defensive team. Many great players, Here is Vic Beasley's stats for 2014. I'm a huge fan of Ferrell and potential is there while you were comparing. Ferrell has alot of the same qualities, but Vic still holds the record.
http://clemson.247sports.com/Bolt/Vic-Beasley-voted-ACC-Defensive-Player-of-Year-by-coaches--33741017
Message was edited by: ATech®
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CU Guru [1046]
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check competition not just metrics
Aug 7, 2017, 10:50 PM
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we played sc state and georgia state... those combined for 200 yds TOTAL. in 2 games. of course thats gonna skew data, cmon
we played sean maguire fsu not jameis. anemic ncstate team, kyle boller-led louisville, the list goes on
vs this last yr playing lamar jackson when they had confidence, nathan peterman with matt canada, malzahn etc
when the competition mattered (uga, fsu in ot), we couldnt stop the run or pass. mack and jayron were still green, and the dline depth wasnt as good as last yrs.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Two of the metrics i linked are OPPONENT ADJUSTED
Aug 7, 2017, 10:51 PM
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That's what makes advanced metrics so great and generally far superior to their old school counterparts.
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CU Guru [1046]
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adjusted for sean maguire? nope
Aug 7, 2017, 10:56 PM
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we played very low powered offenses, shame you cant see it thru the numbers
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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According to Vegas Winston was worth 8 pts
Aug 7, 2017, 11:10 PM
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They had an interview with a handicapper and he explained that Winston was worth 8 points so they moved the line 4 pts towards Clemson to account for his 1st half suspension. Of course he missed the entire game instead of just the half, but 8 points and a few more yards isn't that much compared to an entire 13 game schedule. We still would've had the #1 D that year. We gave up 4 yards per play which was .3 better than anyone else in the country.
What's the point of this crusade of yours anyway? You sound like a coot.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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CU Guru [1746]
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but we didn't exactly shut teams down last year
Aug 7, 2017, 11:25 PM
[ in reply to check competition not just metrics ] |
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We did play good offenses and some of them put up yards and points on us. At times the defense last year was dominant and other times we just laid back and got scored on at will.
Yes the 2014 teams we faced weren't as good but we also just flat dominated those teams....and our defense won us a bunch of games. I know the mentality changes some when you have a great offense, but without our offense last year...we probably lose 4 games.
This is just a bad argument and can't figure why you started it. 2014 was just an elite defense and set the tone for what we have now....just appreciate it and give them Thierry due.
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110%er [8681]
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Did you really say that the 2014 dline depth wasn't as good
Aug 7, 2017, 11:53 PM
[ in reply to check competition not just metrics ] |
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as 2016's? Please stop pretending like you actually know football. The 2014 dline had Vic Beasley (NFL), Grady Jarrett (NFL), Deshawn Williams (NFL), Corey Crawford, Shaq Lawson (NFL), Travaris Barnes (NFL), Josh Watson, DJ Reader (NFL), Carlos Watkins (NFL), and Kevin Dodd (NFL).
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CU Medallion [53773]
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They held teams to almost nothing, and most of the year
Aug 7, 2017, 10:52 PM
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we had ZERO help from the offense.
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All-In [28394]
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uh....
Aug 8, 2017, 12:08 AM
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just no.
this is kooky talk and i cannot participate.
if that d had a consistent morsel of an offense all year, it ends differently. that team was a 1 loss team - tops.
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Replies: 24
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