|
Replies: 39
| visibility 1
|
Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
|
dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 2:42 PM
|
|
clarify to me how some schools (and I heard it mentioned not too long ago that usuck gave out 22 schollies in baseball this season--unsure if its accurate) give more than the 11.7 scholarships the NCAA has mandated available to a baseball program???
Or anyone with an understanding please respond
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [14452]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 22872
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 2:54 PM
|
|
every school can give out 11.7 schollys. a lot of programs we compete against give academic money that we just dont have or will not use. unc, uva, vandy, the coots and many more do this. we have also had trouble getting in jucos. hopefully that will get fixed also. it really doesnt do much good talking about it on this board because a lot of idiots think just because we are clemson we automatically will be good no matter the limitations. and the argument about does c of c being good is another laughable argument. any team can be good once in a blue moon. those schools can get kids into school that we have no shot at. by the way check out our record against c of c and see what you find.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7297]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2763
Joined: 11/24/13
|
Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 3:25 PM
|
|
The problem with this, as I see it, is that Clemson does not have a talent problem. Whatever ways they can or can't get kids in school is made somewhat irrelevant by the fact that the roster is usually on par with the best teams in the country.
I am obviously a Coot but I am a big college baseball fan overall, and Clemson's issues have been performance (especially performance against better teams) than anything talent related.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26322]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14238
Joined: 2/5/08
|
So you're saying the coaching ain't no good?***
Jun 11, 2014, 3:27 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1400]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1393
Joined: 11/30/10
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: Let's take a look at the class rankings
Jun 11, 2014, 4:25 PM
|
|
Compared to SCar's #3, 3, 6, 16, 19. But Ray's baseball palace hasn't mattered at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1400]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1393
Joined: 11/30/10
|
If you are going to go that route
Jun 11, 2014, 6:03 PM
|
|
then you have to answer the question of why didn't Jack win more titles when we had some of the best facilities in the country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: If you are going to go that route
Jun 11, 2014, 6:19 PM
|
|
You are once again confusing the fan experience at the stadium with facilities. At what point did we ever have nice facilities for the players relative to our competition? At best, Clemson was once on equal footing with other schools when most other schools didn't offer anything special in the way of facilities for baseball players. When on an equal playing field Clemson obviously performed at a higher level than we are now. Clemson wasn't a leader in investing in baseball. We wouldn't have the stadium we have if it wasn't for a single gift from Doug Kingsmore. We have been blessed with two coaches who made us one of the most consistent programs in the country but the University, Athletic Department, and IPTAY have used their success as an opportunity to turn a blind eye to the substantial investment that has been going on in baseball all around us. And, unfortunately it works. The average fan, not smart enough to look critically at more than one variable, simply screams "Fire the coach!" when things go bad. Buying out one coach and bringing in some mid-tier replacement to truly bottom out our program will have everyone appreciate what we had and will cost far less than actually doing anything, And talk about big money boosters getting involved with baseball but I don't see it. A few thousand $160 season tickets is meaningless to our overall athletic budget and isn't tied in any way to IPTAY contributions (unlike our feathered friends who have to donate at pretty decent levels to be eligible for baseball tickets). And for the 2012 budget year a whopping $79,000 was donated earmarked towards baseball. I imagine SCar is pulling in quite a few more bills than this on top of all those Gamecock Club donations. So, no I don't think there was ever a point that Jack coached from an advantage in regards to these things. But Clemson (fans, IPTAY, boards students, AD) have all let these things fall embarrassingly behind and for some reason seem intent in throwing one of the best, most loyal coaches we've ever had under the bus before we do even a moment of self inspection.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1400]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1393
Joined: 11/30/10
|
Prior to '05-'06 or thereabouts
Jun 11, 2014, 8:22 PM
|
|
we were ahead of everyone in the ACC except maybe FSU, and most certainly ahead of South Carolina when it comes to player facilities. From that point on everyone started upgrading and we stood still.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23418
Joined: 8/16/03
|
That correlates to our decline in winning percentage.
Jun 12, 2014, 8:22 AM
|
|
I wonder if....
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1400]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1393
Joined: 11/30/10
|
Possibly,
Jun 13, 2014, 2:51 PM
|
|
but again the question bears asking......if facilities is the problem then where were the championships when we had better facilities than most of the rest of the country, including UNC, UVA, and the coots?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
you can split the schollys up
Jun 11, 2014, 2:56 PM
|
|
you can give out partial scholarships. It's common in most sports except BB and football where they have enough schollys per player.
Very few athletes get full schollys in each sport unless you are one of the best in the country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14452]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 22872
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: you can split the schollys up
Jun 11, 2014, 3:25 PM
|
|
better do some more checking
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [73569]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 78044
Joined: 11/30/98
|
what are you talking about?
Jun 11, 2014, 4:32 PM
|
|
i was on partial scholarship at Clemson. I think I know what I speak of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re:But, but, but DE has contacts.***
Jun 11, 2014, 7:34 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7297]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2763
Joined: 11/24/13
|
This is true, but usually the academic schollys come with
Jun 11, 2014, 3:07 PM
|
|
increased academic requirements.
c/p from scholarships database:
Non-Athletically Related Aid
In sports other than football and basketball, student-athletes who do not receive an athletic scholarship can receive non-athletically related aid without restriction. In football and basketball, to maximize the amount of non-athletic aid an athlete can receive, they must be non-recruited under the NCAA’s definition.
If an athlete is recruited and plays football or basketball, he or she may not receive institutional financial aid without becoming a counter and counting against the scholarship limits. Outside aid like federal Pell grants or state grants would be allowed, but the athlete could not receive any of the need and even academic aid a school offers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
|
THIS is what I'd heard and was fuzzy on.................So,
Jun 11, 2014, 3:21 PM
|
|
the chickens gave out their NCAA alloted 11.7 scholarships AND THEN doubled that number by offering academic scholarships to most of the other players (I'd like to see the academic requirements to earn one of these "academic schollies") this ensuring the first 22 or so players are all on scholarship.
I was told, or at least inferred, that these "academic scholarships" for the baseball team are set up by individuals who've set up questionable qualifications: ie, a deserving criminal justice major from Lexington County....is that fairly accurate???
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7297]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2763
Joined: 11/24/13
|
No, the last sentence isn't accurate.
Jun 11, 2014, 3:28 PM
|
|
But this isn't the friendliest territory for a coot when the Tigers want to believe the worst, so i will let it go at that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3573]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6516
Joined: 6/1/99
|
Obviously it can't be as blatant as that
Jun 11, 2014, 4:25 PM
|
|
but you can have pretty narrow requirements. These "scholarships" are often run by foundations/endowments of the university, so theoretically they have to be open to all students.
Private schools like Miami, Vandy and Duke can set up any sorts of financial aid. UVA also gives out tons of scholarships in general so the baseball program (or any non-headcount) sport can assist their players in tuition. UNC supposedly has a number of general scholarship opportunities for out of state students. I'm not sure what USC does.
The only place I see Jack tying his own hands with respect to recruiting is with lottery funded scholarships.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re: There is no way SC can get away with this. I JL is
Jun 11, 2014, 7:38 PM
|
|
making excuses for his failures. I do believe that SC looks at a lot of players in the fall many who are rejected.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1142]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2240
Joined: 6/5/12
|
Re: THIS is what I'd heard and was fuzzy on.................So,
Jun 11, 2014, 3:32 PM
[ in reply to THIS is what I'd heard and was fuzzy on.................So, ] |
|
An academic scholarship can't really have questionable qualifications, so no, that would not be accurate for any major school. If the NCAA allowed schools to make up their own scholarships for athletic purposes, there would be no parity whatsoever outside of the top 10 or 12 big-monied schools.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14452]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 22872
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: THIS is what I'd heard and was fuzzy on.................So,
Jun 11, 2014, 3:35 PM
|
|
it really doesnt matter anymore what the problems "were". what is important is that our coaches, whomever they are, are given every resource to be successful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7297]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2763
Joined: 11/24/13
|
that's a fair point. going forward no question CU
Jun 11, 2014, 3:40 PM
|
|
needs to look at that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [14452]
TigerPulse: 80%
Posts: 22872
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7297]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2763
Joined: 11/24/13
|
yep. all of our kids are blithering idiots.
Jun 11, 2014, 3:30 PM
|
|
keep on believing what you will if it makes you feel better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re: Most them.. They are representative of the student
Jun 11, 2014, 7:40 PM
|
|
body.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [881]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 846
Joined: 11/23/07
|
D@mn! You mean the very smart, capable interns
Jun 11, 2014, 8:45 PM
[ in reply to yep. all of our kids are blithering idiots. ] |
|
I had working forme at a former job were not really attending Coot U? Seriously, I know many outstanding people from that University who, despite, their misguided loyalties  , I would hire in a minute. And contrary to popular belief, they had all their teeth, didn't wear a mullet, and were quite attractive. At least the females - not much of a judge for the males.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7297]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 2763
Joined: 11/24/13
|
^^^^TNet aint gonna like this***
Jun 12, 2014, 10:20 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1099]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2494
Joined: 10/15/13
|
Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 3:08 PM
|
|
Baseball schollies are awarded on a % basis in baseball. Most are on around a 50% schollie or less. Which would give us 22/23 players on ship.
Where CU falls behind (and I believe DRAD mentioned this) is CU's willingness to waive out of state tuition for baseball players and just charge them in state tuition. A lot of schools do this. So now, that 40% is actually worth 10-15 thousand more per year to the families, because the charged amount is cut WAY down. This has hampered Jack's ability (and I am no JL apologist for sure) to recruit out of state players.
Just one of the many battles that he fights behind the scenes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Trainer [47]
TigerPulse: 41%
Posts: 165
Joined: 11/12/08
|
Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 3:17 PM
|
|
You can have up to 27 players on scholarship per NCAA. The other caveat is that any athlete on scholarship must receive at least a 1/3 scholarship. This makes for a lot of juggling numbers with palmetto scholars, academic common market. UVA , Vandy, UNC, and USC have been great at juggling these variables to get each kid maximum money!
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1099]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2494
Joined: 10/15/13
|
Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 3:25 PM
|
|
correct.
if you simply give 33%, then your 11.7 becomes 34 or so. NCAA limits it to 27, so a few get more than the 33%. The actual % is a big recruiting tool. If you are willing to give more than the next guy, then you win most of the time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22965]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 25005
Joined: 6/24/99
|
However, when coupling the number of athletic schollies with
Jun 11, 2014, 3:55 PM
|
|
an equal amount of "academic schollies", a school can give a lot more money to a lot more players.
I know Clemson doesn't do this.... And I've known about the division of the 11.7 schollies for many years. There've only been a handful of Clemson baseball players earn a full scholarship in a long, long time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1851]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 2646
Joined: 11/30/98
|
VERY, very few!*****
Jun 11, 2014, 5:47 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3257]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7167
Joined: 7/27/99
|
One of the more intelligent threads I have read here lately.
Jun 11, 2014, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you ] |
|
Although I have disagreed with some decisions made this year in our games (that's baseball), I have long known about the disadvantages with which JL has to deal. Sounds like some help is coming, and hopefully decisions will improve during games. Go Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
|
Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you
Jun 11, 2014, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you ] |
|
I wonder (because you never know with the NCAA what they'll come up with) if this is how the schools are allowed to manipulate the numbers. To me, if you are admitted under ACM its would seem obvious that your scholarship percentage should be after the reduction. So let's imagine a school costs $20000 out of state and $10000 instate just for nice round numbers. ACM knocks you down to $10000. Your half scholarship in baseball pays half of that and you pay $5000. But, what if they do it like this - tuition for out of state student is $20000. A half scholarship for baseball is $10000. ACM tuition reduction is $10000. Congratulations sir, you effectively have a full scholarship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1851]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 2646
Joined: 11/30/98
|
STOP. HOLD IT. WAIT A DANG MINUTE!!
Jun 11, 2014, 5:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: dero....I just heard Coach Leggett speak on this. Can you ] |
|
With the slim possibility things have changed that is NOT how the out of state tuition waiver works. Or at least it wasn't several years ago.
Take a hypothetical example of a player receiving 10K as a scholarship. When the university goes to work everything out the first thing they do is waive out of state tuition thereby allowing the player to pay in state tuition rates. THEN, they calculate the difference between the two rates and SUBTRACT that amount from the players $10K scholarship award. SO, if there is a $5K difference between the two rates then that $5K is subtracted from the players $10K and he therefore has $5K in scholarship money left to apply to his overall bills. IT does NOT create a situation where the player gets anything extra because they waived the out of state tuition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Scout Team [178]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/22/13
|
Re: STOP. HOLD IT. WAIT A DANG MINUTE!!
Jun 11, 2014, 7:07 PM
|
|
Unfortunately because of he way the draft is set up for college baseball, schools have to decide if they are going to 'overpopulate' and then trim down, or stay within their bounds and risk losing players that they cannot replace until the next season. Sad fact in college baseball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6937]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 22594
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Re: You learn from everyone. Maybe, we should watch what
Jun 12, 2014, 8:34 AM
|
|
the winners do and then emulate them. It should not be that hard. Sitting there and complaining rarely does much good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 39
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
