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YOUR BALANCE
Not that it will change stubborn minds...
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Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 1:55 PM

but Coach Brownell clearly credits facility upgrades for our improved recruiting the last few years.

https://theclemsoninsider.com/2020/05/13/brownell-goes-in-depth-on-clemsons-recent-uptick-in-recruiting/

This quote should also help clear up some misconceptions about these new facilities. Yes, they are a big improvement, and yes, they help a lot. But they aren't amazing, jaw-dropping, elite facilities like our football program has.

"At the end of the day, we don’t have anything that somebody else doesn’t have,” Brownell said. “We’ve just gotten more on par with other like-minded competitors, and there’s still probably a few things we’ve got to keep pushing forward on. There are folks that probably have a few more bells and whistles than we do in certain areas and all that. But what we were able to get done three or four years ago has made a huge impact."

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 1:59 PM

If the recruiting is better now, then won't the AD finally catch on that the coaching must be the problem?

What would be better is that the recruiting be worse and the results be better. That indicates great coaching.

You do see that - right?? Not sure our AD sees it though.

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What problem?


May 14, 2020, 2:04 PM

With the exception of Simms, most of our talent will be freshmen and sophomores next year. So it's unfair to blame coaching when he's just getting started with these talented recruiting classes of late.

With that said, we were very competitive last year despite being an inexperienced team that lost a ton of production from the year prior. As you know, we knocked off several highly ranked teams.

None of us are satisfied with where the program currently is, but you have to admit there is reason for optimism moving forward.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: What problem?


May 14, 2020, 2:24 PM

So last year we were inexperienced (despite having quite a few "experienced" players) and this year we will only have talented freshmen and sophomores? Are the potential excuses being laid out already?

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Reality does not constitute an excuse.


May 14, 2020, 2:51 PM

The reality is that we lost a lot of production going into this past season. Given that, I don't think it's unreasonable to be pleased that we had some outstanding wins against ACC basketball powerhouses.

As for next season, I am very excited about it. I didn't say that ALL of our talented players are freshmen and sophomores, but it is clear that most of our highly rated players (based on recruiting rankings) are freshmen and sophomores.

Assuming Aamir Simms returns, we will have our most vocal leader back from last year. He will be a senior. The only other seniors will be Clyde Trapp, who gave us some great minutes at guard in the second half of last season. He isn't the most talented guy, but he is experienced and versatile. The only other senior will be Jonathan Baehre, and it remains to be seen if he is able to play, and if so, how effective he will be based on his injury history.

We will have several talented juniors in John Newman, Hunter Tyson, and Khavon Moore. Newman should be another leader next year. Tyson should continue to improve. And Moore has a lot of raw ability.

The rest of the guys in our rotation will be freshmen or sophomores. Nick Honor will give us a nice boost after sitting out last year due to transfer. We have Al-Amir Dawes at PG, and Chase Hunter at the shooting guard position. Chase was off to a nice start last year before being injured. I'm hopeful he will get a medical hardship for last year so that he will actually be a redshirt freshman this year. He can also fill in at the point if needed. Finally, at the guard position, Hemenway provides great shooting. He just needs to improve on defense to get more quality minutes.

As you know, both P.J. Hall and Olivier Maxence-Prosper are two highly touted recruits. Both will get minutes next year.

I can't recall a more talented Clemson basketball team, top to bottom, in recent memory. We have the potential to not only make the NCAA Tournament next year, but win a few games there. Everyone should be excited.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Reality does not constitute an excuse.


May 14, 2020, 2:58 PM

Agree - Judge ... Next year should be a good one !! ??

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: Reality does not constitute an excuse.


May 14, 2020, 4:08 PM [ in reply to Reality does not constitute an excuse. ]

If we have any questions about Baerhe not being ready we really need to bring in a grad transfer front court player in.
Having in only two guys taller than 6-8 on the roster is a disaster waiting to happen.

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Re: Reality does not constitute an excuse.


May 14, 2020, 7:32 PM

The game has changed, faster play lead by do-it-all players in the mold of small forwards 6'5" - 6'8" that can run the floor versus a slow 7 footer (like we had last year). We will be fine if we get the ball to open shooters rather just jacking threes all night.

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yup that's exactly what he/she did.***


May 15, 2020, 3:33 AM [ in reply to Re: What problem? ]



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Re: What problem?


May 14, 2020, 3:35 PM [ in reply to What problem? ]

No more excuses please for BB.....this coming season he needs to put up or shut up......I am talking results as in wins and losses......11th season I believe for him at Clemson.......BB is an average coach AT best.....we deserve better because paying him 3 million bucks a year has been a joke based on HIS results after 10 seasons......this should be his last season and he needs to GO after next season if he does not get us to the BIG dance......period......Go Tigers!!!!!!

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Again, stating reality does not equal making excuses.


May 14, 2020, 8:58 PM

I can’t help it if you are unwilling to acknowledge that Clemson hasn’t supported basketball worth a crap for most of its history. Failing to provide reasonable basketball facilities for the first 2/3rds of Brownell’s tenure is a prime example of that.

Facilities make a big difference in recruiting well. And recruiting well is key if you want to make NCAA Tournaments on a regular basis. Can you agree with that?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Again, stating reality does not equal making excuses.


May 15, 2020, 6:45 PM

We could give the basketball program even more than what we give the football program now and it would not matter......if CBB Is still the head coach we would still be an average team at best.......because the most important part of any college program is the captain of the ship AKA as the head coach........CBB seems to the a great guy put is far from being a great coach..... he is by far the worse last 2 minutes of the game head coach in college basketball......he really sucks in those close games and it is almost a given loss at the end of these close games if it comes to that.......how much more time should we give him.....another 10 years .......based on his history at Clemson he has already been there for 10 years too long.......Go Tigers!!!!!

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so he gets a mulligan for the first 10 years and gets


May 15, 2020, 3:32 AM [ in reply to What problem? ]

to start over beginning this year? You're crazy. This is his last year if he doesn't make the tournament AGAIN.

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Like any coach, his tenure should be viewed in context of


May 15, 2020, 12:21 PM

the tools he has (or doesn't have) to do his job.

How would you feel if our football program had worse facilities than most of the conference? Would you be okay with that?

And would you expect our coaches to recruit on par with, and compete with, the rest of the conference?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Miami did ok...


May 15, 2020, 12:24 PM

In fact, they’ve done worse with better.




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


There are so many examples of that, but it's not even worth


May 16, 2020, 3:43 AM

trying with that one.

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Re: What problem?


May 18, 2020, 12:43 PM [ in reply to What problem? ]

I think Dabo wins with freshmen and sophomores playing.

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 2:16 PM [ in reply to Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds... ]


If the recruiting is better now, then won't the AD finally catch on that the coaching must be the problem?

What would be better is that the recruiting be worse and the results be better. That indicates great coaching.

You do see that - right?? Not sure our AD sees it though.



Not sure if you are trolling or simply clueless? Either way not a good look

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I’m sure Dabo won’t mind letting BB borrow the oculus??***


May 14, 2020, 2:16 PM



military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

what about Monte? Can he borrow it as well or build his own***


May 14, 2020, 2:17 PM



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Re: what about Monte? Can he borrow it as well or build his own***


May 14, 2020, 2:19 PM

Uh oh, que the pitching coach crowd...

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I still say the oculus should have an orange laser beam


May 14, 2020, 8:40 PM [ in reply to I’m sure Dabo won’t mind letting BB borrow the oculus??*** ]

Tiger Paw that projects to midfield in the Valley for night games. I don't know how that got left out of the budget.

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The only thing that's going to change "stubborn minds"


May 14, 2020, 2:23 PM

is NCAA tournament appearances. 2 in 10 years (1 with OP's players) is not going to get it done, regardless of the reasons/excuses. If the new facilities and better recruiting result in NCAA tourney berths, then people will certainly view BB differently.

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Well, most of our fan base is clueless when it comes to


May 14, 2020, 2:59 PM

basketball and what it takes to be successful. Sorry, but it's the truth.

It's completely illogical to treat basketball as an afterthought, as we historically have at Clemson, but still complain about not making more NCAA Tournaments.

As Brad stated in the link I shared (did you read it yet?), facility upgrades were badly needed to put us on an even playing field with most of the rest of the conference. Despite having good but not great facilities now, we have seen an uptick in recruiting. In other words, the facilities have helped our coaches recruit better and do their jobs better. You know, the same way facilities allow our football coaches to get better recruits and do their jobs better.

Now that we have the facilities in place, and have had a couple of recruiting cycles showing the benefit of the improved talent, we can - and SHOULD - start to expect more success in terms of wins. But it isn't an overnight process. The fact that "fans" keep harping on 2 NCAAs in 10 years under Brownell, despite the fact that the guy hasn't even been on a level playing field with much of the conference facility-wise until a few years ago, shows a complete lack of understanding as to how all of this works.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Do you include yourself in the "clueless when it comes


May 14, 2020, 4:28 PM

to basketball" category? I've asked you many times for specific Xs and Os breakdowns about our rotations, sets, etc and you have never once answered. Tiger TV bailed you out on one occasion, but I tend to believe that when it comes to the game itself, you don't understand it.

You can go on and on about facilities, investment and recruiting, but are you capable of having a discussion on specifics of the game itself?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Do you include yourself in the "clueless when it comes


May 14, 2020, 7:40 PM



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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Back off bob, I've been keeping her been busy


May 14, 2020, 7:44 PM

with mimosas at the club alfresco.

#fingerscrosseditworks

#wishmeluck

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Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings? It's almost never for them.


Link to the last time you contributed something of substance here?


May 14, 2020, 9:03 PM [ in reply to Re: Do you include yourself in the "clueless when it comes ]

Pics, gifs, and responses confined to the subject line don’t count.

TIA, Bobby.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


As usual, you are attempting to distract from the topic at hand.


May 14, 2020, 8:52 PM [ in reply to Do you include yourself in the "clueless when it comes ]

The point is that facilities matter a lot. We were at a huge facility disadvantage until a few years ago, despite the fact that many people here refused to acknowledge it. In addition, the new facilities put us on a more level playing field with many of our peers, but not ahead of them. And we still aren’t on par with some other teams in the league in terms of facilities. Again, many people here have consistently refused to accept this. Interestingly, these same people wouldn’t be very happy if we allowed our football facilities to fall behind again.

Instead, all they have said for years is that our facilities were fine and our coach stinks. Then, once the new facilities were built, they acted like we had the best facilities in college basketball and should be bringing in blue chip recruits every year.

I’ve literally posted about the importance of facilities many times, and how it impacts the talent we get and thus the results we can expect. I’m typically met with resistance or crickets. Now, here we have statements from our head coach himself as to how important they are.

I’m not holding my breath for anyone to admit that they might’ve been wrong, but I do hope it will help some people understand just how poorly our program has been supported for a long time. Facilities are but one component of that support, as you know.

As for Xs and Os, and other in-game specifics which have nothing at all to do with the importance of facilitates - I love having conversations with those who genuinely want to exchange thoughts and ideas. I don’t believe you have been interested in that, so I decided not to spend my time on it. Otherwise, I would’ve readily discussed different types of motion offenses, differences in how ball screens and off-ball screens should be employed, match-up zone vs. pure zone vs. man-to-man defense, the finer points of footwork, and the art of proper shooting form. That’s okay, there are other forums for that type of discussion.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


As usual, you are attempting to distract from the topic at hand.


May 14, 2020, 8:52 PM [ in reply to Do you include yourself in the "clueless when it comes ]

The point is that facilities matter a lot. We were at a huge facility disadvantage until a few years ago, despite the fact that many people here refused to acknowledge it. In addition, the new facilities put us on a more level playing field with many of our peers, but not ahead of them. And we still aren’t on par with some other teams in the league in terms of facilities. Again, many people here have consistently refused to accept this. Interestingly, these same people wouldn’t be very happy if we allowed our football facilities to fall behind again.

Instead, all they have said for years is that our facilities were fine and our coach stinks. Then, once the new facilities were built, they acted like we had the best facilities in college basketball and should be bringing in blue chip recruits every year.

I’ve literally posted about the importance of facilities many times, and how it impacts the talent we get and thus the results we can expect. I’m typically met with resistance or crickets. Now, here we have statements from our head coach himself as to how important they are.

I’m not holding my breath for anyone to admit that they might’ve been wrong, but I do hope it will help some people understand just how poorly our program has been supported for a long time. Facilities are but one component of that support, as you know.

As for Xs and Os, and other in-game specifics which have nothing at all to do with the importance of facilitates - I love having conversations with those who genuinely want to exchange thoughts and ideas. I don’t believe you have been interested in that, so I decided not to spend my time on it. Otherwise, I would’ve readily discussed different types of motion offenses, differences in how ball screens and off-ball screens should be employed, match-up zone vs. pure zone vs. man-to-man defense, the finer points of footwork, and the art of proper shooting form. That’s okay, there are other forums for that type of discussion.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: The only thing that's going to change "stubborn minds"


May 14, 2020, 7:18 PM [ in reply to The only thing that's going to change "stubborn minds" ]

You said: "is NCAA tournament appearances. 2 in 10 years (1 with OP's players)"

So you are agreeing that Coach BB can win with the right players, correct??

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I’m not sure how the portal works. But I imagine some transfers are just happy


May 14, 2020, 2:39 PM

To find a home.

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Re: I’m not sure how the portal works. But I imagine some transfers are just happy


May 14, 2020, 3:07 PM

lovingit® said:

To find a home.




How the portal works is, guys have an idea where they are going to land before they ever jump in.

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 3:07 PM

I understand the most recent season (2019-2020) being lackluster with the loss of most of our scoring production, not getting a transfer approved to play and injuries. I'm willing to accept those type of seasons periodically understanding we are not one of the elite programs of college basketball.

My main gripe about Brad's coaching is the previous season (2018-2019). We lost Devoe off of the Sweet 16 team. Grantham as well, but we made the last season and post season run with Grantham so really the only significant loss from the tourney team was Devoe. So despite really high expectations, that season was miserable with all of the close losses. At a certain point, I do blame the coach when late game losses/collapses become all too routine.

So, 2018-2019 is a strike against Brad. 2019-2020 is a wash, part of the natural cycle of a program which will need to rebuild sometimes. Recruiting is a positive mark for Brad, very encouraging.

Hoping for the best the next two seasons where he can parlay this newly upgraded recruiting talent into NCAA invitations and deep runs.

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"after losing all our production from the prior season"


May 14, 2020, 10:57 PM

Anyone want to guess on the post-season success of said class "with all the production" we lost?


Yeah. There was none. We didn't make The Dance that year either - surprise.

I actually think we lost in Round 1 of NIT at home to God knows who.

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You don't even know specifics


May 15, 2020, 12:23 PM

but that doesn't stop you from whining about it. Typical.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 11:46 PM [ in reply to Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds... ]

I'll start by saying this is the most fair argument that can be made about the last three years in the program, but it isn't without its holes. So I'll provide some context as to why the 2018-19 team wasn't as close to the 2017-18 team as many believe.

- The loss wasn't just Devoe. Even if you want to discard Grantham due to injury, the losses were still Devoe (graduation), Donnal (graduation), Oliver (transfer), Spencer (transfer) and William (season-ending injury for 2018-19...then an eventual and much needed transfer). With this, you have to look at how the structure of the team changed. So let's view the newcomers by comparison with those in this list who played significant minutes in 2017-18 or those who were expected to play significant minutes in 2018-19 (but didn't due to transfer/injury).

- Incoming eligible players for 2018-19 were Javan White, John Newman, Hunter Tyson and Trey Jemison. It could be argued that two of those players (Tyson and Jemison really weren't ready to immediately contribute SIGNIFICANT minutes in conference play...so they had developing years, much like we saw). So we're left solely with Newman and White to replace Devoe and Donnal. Why?

- AJ Oliver transferred on November 2, 2018, four days before the 2018-19 season started (most likely related to his mother getting fired...his sister transferred off of the volleyball team, too); it was impossible to replace him with an eligible player. He was projected by many to play significant minutes in 2018-19, in an attempt to keep our same three-headed guard approach seen with Mitchell, Reed and Devoe in 2017-18 for our offense in 2018-19 (more on this later). The next logical candidate to take Devoe minutes would have been Spencer, who also did not return; he made his decision MUCH earlier (April 5).

- Thus, Brownell now faces a tough decision between playing his most experienced group (Mitchell, Reed, Skara, Simms and Thomas) or playing his 2017-18 scheme. He chose to play experience, as Clyde Trapp and John Newman just didn't provide enough quality depth in the backcourt to play that many different guards in the lineup at one time. Go back and watch the Auburn game from the Sweet 16 run. Watch many games from that season. Oliver and Spencer played very meaningful minutes, probably as many, if not more than Trapp at times. Trapp was held because we literally had no other option for point guard backups to Shelton Mitchell, and he was the best option, outside of perhaps sliding Marcquise Reed or Donte Grantham to point, which we did at times.

- The difference between what Javan White provided and what Mark Donnal provided was stark. They're simply different players. Donnal made it easier to have Skara, who struggled to shoot the ball from deep in 2017-18, on the floor in one of the front court spots. Aamir Simms also struggled to find his range during his freshman year...so again, Donnal provided a threat that would stretch opponent bigs out of the lane and clear space for our skilled guards to penetrate in the half court offense. With White and Thomas in 2018-19, we never had a stretch big option.

- So how does this change our team the most? Well, if we run the three-guard offense, we run the risk of gassing our starting group due to depth concerns. If we run our most experienced group, we limit our ability to space the floor on the offensive end of the floor. This is where you need, philosophically, to be able to see the HUGE difference between Mitchell-Reed-Devoe-Grantham-Thomas and Mitchell-Reed-Skara-Simms-Thomas.

- Then comes the wildcard that, in my opinion, killed us. Absolutely took us behind the woodshed. Shelton Mitchell. The guy played the whole 2018-19 season with one leg...a knee so injured that he's already been forced to retire from the game. Trust me...he had options to play overseas (after both 2017-18 and 2018-19) that weren't able to come to fruition due to this major injury. A knee so injured that he didn't play in the two NIT games at the end of the year. If you were able to watch any of the 2018-19 games, Shelton had a fraction of his 2017-18 lift, quickness, agility, etc. He was a shell of himself...but he was still, by far, the best option we had. This made the choice to go with the most experienced group EVEN EASIER because our guard rotation is bruised even more.

Mitchell's injury restricted the offense greatly. His ability in 2017-18 to get into the lane and be a threat to score and dish to Devoe, dish to Reed, dish to Grantham...think of those shooting options. Not to mention his 3-point shot was WAY worse (37% in 2017-18 to 32% in 2018-19). The spread that a healthy Mitchell and those shooting options allows your offense to enjoy also opens up driving lanes for Reed and Devoe. Instead, in 2018-19, without those weapons on the outside, defenses help further down into the lane, single out one defender to not help out when they're guarding Reed (our best scorer)...something they could not do in 2017-18 due to the presence of the other guys.

Think of it this way...in 2017-18, Mitchell drives, beats his defender...he can (1) elevate at the rim and finish, (2) dish to an open Reed/Devoe/Grantham, depending on whose defender helps, (3) dish to Thomas underneath if the big steps up or (4) pass to Donnal if he stretches and his defender fills the lane. In 2018-19, Mitchell doesn't elevate and finish with nearly the same ability, the one elite backcourt threat left on the court has a defender who has the luxury of not having to help, which leaves his dish options as Skara and Simms. Thomas is still there, but Donnal is not, and White struggles on the offensive end of the floor. Not nearly the same recipe for success on the offensive end of the floor. Mitchell's injury, in essence, hurts the entire team and perhaps mostly Marcquise Reed.

Essentially, the guard rotations between those two teams break down like this:

2017-18
Shelton Mitchell (Healthy)
Marcquise Reed
Gabe Devoe
Donte Grantham
Clyde Trapp
AJ Oliver
Scott Spencer

2018-19
Shelton Mitchell (Injured)
Marcquise Reed
Clyde Trapp
John Newman
David Skara

One word: DEPTH

Should we have made the tournament in 2018-19? Probably. I still think it was very do-able. I continue to be disappointed by that season, but as I process it, I don't think I'm as disappointed by that season as I am by 2016-17 (Jaron Blossomgame's final year). That's for another post, though.

Hopefully, I've shown that those two teams were, in fact, quite different. If we have two more reliable guards in 2018-19 that allow us to simply rotate Skara and Simms at power forward instead of playing both at the same time, and if those guards can provide us with the offensive output that we lost in Devoe, Grantham and Mitchell, we VERY likely Dance and make another run. Guards win in conference play. Guards win in March. Period. In 2017-18, we had a GREAT backcourt. In 2018-19, we didn't. That made those teams VERY, VERY different.

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 11:57 PM

Well said. Nice write up.

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You're just making excuses


May 15, 2020, 12:27 PM [ in reply to Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds... ]

for a coach who only has 2 NCAA Tournament appearances in 10 years, one with Purnell's players. It's people like you who are the problem with Clemson basketball being so horrible.

Signed,

The TigerNet Majority

P.S. Joking aside, your post was awesome! Great analysis!

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Take off the second sentence then you'll have it right.***


May 16, 2020, 3:49 AM



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Re: Take off the second sentence then you'll have it right.***


May 17, 2020, 1:28 PM

What is particularly sad is that people like you are so dis-invested in the program that, by the time you realize we actually have a good team next year, you'll only be able to enjoy the last two weeks of the season. You'll live in cynicism the entire year and never allow yourself to enjoy the full ride taken by a good team. Then you'll enter the following season believing it was a fluke and that it cannot happen again. Sad way to be a "fan", in my opinion.

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Re: Take off the second sentence then you'll have it right.***


May 17, 2020, 2:42 PM

He likes it when you refer to his previous username CourageousTiger

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 15, 2020, 2:18 PM [ in reply to Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds... ]

Great write up and spot on. That team was just 4 free throws away from dancing that season.

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What exactly is this supposed to change in some minds?***


May 14, 2020, 3:42 PM



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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


That facilities matter a lot when it comes to recruiting well.


May 14, 2020, 8:12 PM

In case you forgot, a lot of people here haven’t been willing to acknowledge that when I’ve posted it in the past.

So here it is, straight from the coach’s mouth.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


So you're just desperately seeking acknowledgement...


May 15, 2020, 3:36 PM

The Karen tendencies are starting to make a little more sense.

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 14, 2020, 7:36 PM

Well lets hope #1 they'll play this year , and #2 that Brownell gets some consistent scoring going . We need to play better on the offensive end .

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DB23


Agreed.***


May 14, 2020, 9:05 PM



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


need more wins. this year is his last chance.***


May 15, 2020, 3:29 AM



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That's nice, but you're missing the point of the post.


May 15, 2020, 12:29 PM

The point is that facilities matter a lot. We didn't have good basketball facilities until a few years ago. Even now, our facilities are behind several other teams in the conference. But even still, our recruiting has benefited from the improved facilities.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Facilities? How many games do facilities win?***


May 16, 2020, 3:46 AM



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Re: Facilities? How many games do facilities win?***


May 18, 2020, 12:27 PM

Ask Dabo about the impact of facilities on a program and the correlation between facilities and the number of wins.

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 15, 2020, 12:17 PM

I remember going to a prowl and growl the year we went to the sweet 16.

He spoke in depth at how our facility upgrades have helped immensely. He said that we would not have gotten donnal if it wasn’t for the facility upgrades.

Donnal provides great depth behind Thomas that year and he hit som HUGE shots that year. I honesty an unsure if we would have made that run without him.

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I'm amazed by how many people here seem to


May 15, 2020, 12:32 PM

be unable or unwilling to acknowledge how important basketball facilities are. They seem to expect our coach to work miracles in recruiting and coaching to overcome not only bad facilities, but also a poor basketball history and a reputation that Clemson doesn't care about basketball.

Interestingly, many of these same posters who downplay the need for good facilities for basketball would be upset if we fell behind in our football facilities. I wonder why?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I'm amazed by how many people here seem to


May 17, 2020, 1:57 PM

Barnes and OP didn’t think it was a problem

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Re: Barnes and OP


May 17, 2020, 3:32 PM

It's obvious they both had big problems with coaching at Clemson since they both bolted after several successful seasons.

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Re: I'm amazed by how many people here seem to


May 18, 2020, 12:40 PM [ in reply to Re: I'm amazed by how many people here seem to ]

This is such a flawed statement that gets highlighted on this board ALL THE TIME by multiple posters. It's as if the folks who make this statement believe that (1) while our facilities aren't changing, other schools in our league were/are staying stagnant as well (completely false) and (2) the importance of facilities and amenities hasn't grown as social media and television has provided more and more exposure over the last 10 years. If you believe those two things, you're crazy.

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NO! I will NOT wear a mask while I am driving by


May 18, 2020, 12:45 PM

myself in my own car!! And, this stubborn mind will not change!!

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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 18, 2020, 12:51 PM

Clemson has spent a boatload of money on facilities with two renovations of LJ. We pay the head coach pretty big bucks for average results in my opinion.

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 19, 2020, 12:32 AM

A boatload? Really?

Aside from the fact that the renovation in 2003 has little merit in this conversation, even if you count it, you're talking about a combined $94.5 million (2003, 2016) spent in renovations (not accounting for inflation)...$31 million in 2003 and $63.5 million in 2016.

$131 million (2012) was spent on John Paul Jones Arena (Virginia).
$238 million (2010) was spent on the KFC Yum! Center (Louisville).
$119 million (2002) was spent on the Petersen Events Center (Pittsburgh).
$158 million (1999) was spent on PNC Arena (NC State).

Those are construction costs only and not adjusted for inflation...not counting renovations done to those facilities since those dates. We spent $8 million ($58 million, if adjusted for inflation) to build Littlejohn in 1968.

Then you look at the fact that those numbers for other schools aren't even accounting for the money that has been pumped into renovations at the Carrier Dome (Syracuse), the Dean Smith Center (North Carolina) and Alexander Memorial Coliseum / McCamish Pavilion (Georgia Tech). When you consider the history and tradition at the two former schools, along with Cameron Indoor Stadium, you can't make any other argument other than one that says we're clearly just trying to keep up, which is EXACTLY what Brad Brownell said in the interview Judge posted in the original post.

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Re: Not that it will change stubborn minds...


May 19, 2020, 10:02 AM

Tiger TV said:

A boatload? Really?

Aside from the fact that the renovation in 2003 has little merit in this conversation, even if you count it, you're talking about a combined $94.5 million (2003, 2016) spent in renovations (not accounting for inflation)...$31 million in 2003 and $63.5 million in 2016.

$131 million (2012) was spent on John Paul Jones Arena (Virginia).
$238 million (2010) was spent on the KFC Yum! Center (Louisville).
$119 million (2002) was spent on the Petersen Events Center (Pittsburgh).
$158 million (1999) was spent on PNC Arena (NC State).

Those are construction costs only and not adjusted for inflation...not counting renovations done to those facilities since those dates. We spent $8 million ($58 million, if adjusted for inflation) to build Littlejohn in 1968.

Then you look at the fact that those numbers for other schools aren't even accounting for the money that has been pumped into renovations at the Carrier Dome (Syracuse), the Dean Smith Center (North Carolina) and Alexander Memorial Coliseum / McCamish Pavilion (Georgia Tech). When you consider the history and tradition at the two former schools, along with Cameron Indoor Stadium, you can't make any other argument other than one that says we're clearly just trying to keep up, which is EXACTLY what Brad Brownell said in the interview Judge posted in the original post.




Again, great post and insightful.

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