Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Commentary: Who Pulled That String?
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 78
| visibility 1

Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 1:26 AM

Commentary: Who Pulled That String?

Thomas Williams asks who made the decision to keep Tommy Bowden from going to Arkansas last year. Full Story »


flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Outstanding! Exactly right.***


Oct 12, 2008, 1:29 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We have nobody to blame but ourselves for constantly


Oct 12, 2008, 1:40 AM

believing the "Wait until next year" mantra that Tommy has established here at Clemson. We used to make fun of the gamecocks for saying that, yet last year we gave a man a raise, contract extension, and buyout for just that very reason... well, it is next year, and as was clearly expected by anybody with an analytical brain, Tommy has failed to deliver.

The problem isn't TDP. The problem isn't Barker. The problem is the Clemson sportswriters and the Clemson fans who have bought into this farce from day one. The people who have defended Tommy Bowden for 9 years because of lame, ridiculous excuses like:
-facilities
-"we're just one or two plays away"
-parity
-50% of the teams lose
-even Pete Carrol loses games
-"the players just didn't execute"
-Coach O'Cain isn't getting it done
-Coach (insert name here, other than Bowden) isn't getting it done
-Harper isn't getting it done
-Simmons isn't getting it done
.... the list goes on and on

This is our fault folks. The signs have been presenting themselves all along, and we've simply ignored them.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker


Oct 12, 2008, 2:50 AM

If Koenning had sent the house instead of just three on Wake's third-and-24 from their own 8, we probably would have won.

If we had got the call on the spot in the Maryland game, we probably would have won that one, too. Certainly the game was ours if the ticky-tacky hold on Kelley that nullified Spiller's long touchdown run hadn't been called.

Then we'd be 5-1, and everything would be hunky dory, if less than one stinking minute of football all totaled had gone our way.

Then there's a host of injuries to a fledgling offensive line, an injury to our Preseason ACC Player of the Year quarterback, a hamstring injury to our fastest tailback, and even an injury against Alabama to the fastest player on the team, wide receiver Jacoby Ford.

So if you want to hand out blame, understand there's a lot of blame to go around. Jumping to the cockamamie conclusion that it's all Bowden's fault, and whoever decided to renew his contract, be it Phillips or Barker, needs to fall on his sword, doesn't really make much sense.

Understand, also, that I have it on good authority from someone very close to the top of the chain that no one plans to fire Bowden at the end of the season unless he refuses to let Spence and Scott go.

We've all found this season frustrating, but we need to back up and look at things with a cool head.

A slew of injuries is as much the culprit here as any one person, and after watching Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma State and Missouri today, I'm more than suspicious we weren't really quite as loaded going into this season as everybody wanted to believe we were.

We could blame quite a few players for poor execution this year, too.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be frustrated, and I'm not saying we shouldn't expect some changes, but I am saying we don't really have reason to be screaming like banshees. We're 3-3, not 0-6, and our biggest dreams have slipped away, but all is not lost. We ought to act like adults and make the best out of this we can.

That, after all, is what we expect of Bowden, and TDP, and Barker, and even our Tigers themselves.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I have seen the future, and it is Clemson.


Ultimately it is the head coach that is to blame


Oct 12, 2008, 9:42 AM

and those in charge of who that head coach is shares that responsibility.

You are making excuses. Spot? One third down play? The game should not come down to "one minute of football" when you have so much more talent than the team you are playing.

You can make all the excuses you want, but I am done making excuses. I expect changes to be made at Clemson!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You have some very good points.***


Oct 12, 2008, 11:39 AM [ in reply to Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You're making excuses for Bowden. How many years in a row


Oct 12, 2008, 11:45 AM [ in reply to Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker ]

can we continue to say if only the spot...if only the call...if only this or that had gone our way? If the games come down to that, we don't deserve to win anyway. And it's not that we don't have as much talent as we thought, as you suggest. Our talent and potential have not been fully realized, and that is Tommy Bowden's fault. He's the head coach, and the responsibility for underperforming falls squarely on his shoulders. The responsibility for this being a Clemson problem and not an Arkansas problem would be either TDP's or JB's. Maybe one or both should be held accountable.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We Should not be worried about spots costing us the game...


Oct 12, 2008, 3:16 PM [ in reply to Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker ]

Against a bad Maryland team. The spot was horrible, and there was a holding call the same way. That is beside the point, we should have beat them by two touchdowns. With any offensive production at all we would have beaten Wake, for crying out loud we were in negative total yards in the second half. I do not know who recruited the horrible offensive line or who is responsible for motivating them, but I can tell you 10 years is long enough to realize the offensive line is a VERY IMPORTANT PART OF AN OFFENSE. You do not win football games without a line. We have far to many skill guys to score seven points a game, so you can conitnue to support Tommy if you want to, I have for 10 years, I like the man and wish him well. He has done a lot for Clemson football. I also realize that every person reaches their limits and becomes comfortable in their job, and that is where Tommy is. The man is loaded, I think he wants to win, but has lost some of the motivation to do that. It is time to move on!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Wow! 10 straight years of underachieving and you still


Oct 12, 2008, 4:25 PM [ in reply to Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker ]

can't admit where the problem lies. We've had several players and several coordinators/assistant coaches come through the program and the results have not changed. The one constant that has remained is Tommy Bowden. Pull your head out of your ####.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We haven't underachieved.


Oct 13, 2008, 8:07 AM

only according to our own inflated ideas of where we should be. Only this year have we been picked to win the ACC.

Every other year we have finished spot on to where predicted.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker


Oct 12, 2008, 9:56 PM [ in reply to Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker ]

So what is your point Mrs. Bowden?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker


Oct 13, 2008, 8:53 AM [ in reply to Blame? It doesn't all go to Bowden, or TDP, or Barker ]

GOOD POINTS. THIS ARTICLE IS STUPID....LETS LOOK FOWARD...I WANT TO SEE WILLY START HIS FIRST GAME...I ALSO AM INCAPABLE OF GOING BACK IN TIME. THE RIGHT THING WILL HAPPEN AT THE END OF THE SEASON.wHY BE MISERABLE EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY UNTIL THEN?????

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

look back at my old posts, I've been ousting TB since 2002


Oct 12, 2008, 12:23 PM [ in reply to We have nobody to blame but ourselves for constantly ]

when we were getting humiliated by FSU, Texas Tech, etc. on national TV. Soon after it was UGA, FSU , WFU and Duke!!

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

“poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.”


Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 1:40 AM

I'm seriously not flaming or trying to be a ###### or cause controversy. But Bowden over Petrino? No chance, Bowden was never going to ARK.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 2:03 AM

Exactly.. Why do we as Clemson fans think everytime a coach "is contacted by another school" that it means their being sought. TB nor Spence were serious candidates for other jobs at ANYtime here! They used coaching bddies to stiff us out of millions.

rediculous article.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 8:29 AM

Asking that question is tantamount to asking what sank the Titanic; poor quality steel/rivets, or the iceberg.Either one, {Phillips or Barker},or both,the damage is done for '08.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

ESPN reported early that Arkansas DID NOT offer Bowden.


Oct 12, 2008, 3:04 AM

Arkansas never even offered Bowden the head coaching job. Before Clemson & Bowden agreed, in principle, on an extension, ESPN reported that Arkansas' board of trustees had already rejected Bowden because Bowden's track record was even worse than Houston Nutt's. (Duh.) Bowden merely bluffed Clemson by visiting his old friend who is AD at Arkansas. Clemson's administration was either foolishly duped by the bluff, or they simply wanted to keep Bowden anyway.

Even Bowden said at a news conference on 12/5/07, "I was not offered the job at Arkansas. I've always felt very confident about the negotiation process here."

Clemson did not NEED to offer Bowden a contract extension, because Bowden didn't have any better options. So Clemson either offered Bowden an extension because they didn't read the news and didn't know that Arkansas rejected Bowden, or they offered Bowden an extension bcause they simply wanted to keep Bowden because they liked his clean, winning (albeit not championship-winning) program.

Even if Clemson's administration didn't read the newspapers, they certainly didn't need to offer Bowden such a big ($4M) buy-out. That leads me to believe that they simply WANTED to keep Bowden.

It was incompetent for Clemson's administration to offer Bowden a contract extension with a $4M buy-out and no performance-based provisions for termination.

Clemson is a state school using state funds to pay for Bowden's mediocrity, so Clemson's administration should have to explain who made the decision regarding Bowden's contract extension. Of course, the local press never asks any tough questions because they're afraid that they'll be denied access for interviews in the future. Until now, the local press just parroted the administration's pro-Bowden propaganda... which is a large part of the reason that we're still stuck with Bowden, and why we'll never know what really happened.

I don't think that Barker & Phillips will fire Bowden at the end of this season. Doing so would be political suicide for Barker and Phillips because it would highlight their incompetence in negotiating a foolish contract that wasted MILLIONS of dollars.

If Bowden were the decent, honorable man that his supporters have always claimed, then Bowden would agree to resign without receiving a buyout. He is clearly not getting the job done, he's not welcome, and he didn't do anything to earn a $3.5M buyout.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

using state funds to pay for Bowden?


Oct 12, 2008, 3:48 AM

his state salary is $295,000.
and TDP is at $212,000

http://salaries.thestateonline.com/form.php

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Well if ESPN reported it, it must be true.....


Oct 12, 2008, 8:52 AM [ in reply to ESPN reported early that Arkansas DID NOT offer Bowden. ]

I've never known them to get anything wrong.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Several Arkansas news orgs also reported it, &TB confirmed.***


Oct 12, 2008, 11:03 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

And why would Arkansas want a guy who can't beat good teams?


Oct 12, 2008, 1:14 PM

Just classic common sense on that one. They fired a guy who was better than Bowden, why would they want him?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

That's EXACTLY what Arkansas' BOT said when rejecting Bowden***


Oct 12, 2008, 2:59 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Bowden was not offered the Ark. job. ******


Oct 12, 2008, 3:05 PM [ in reply to Several Arkansas news orgs also reported it, &TB confirmed.*** ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: ESPN reported early that Arkansas DID NOT offer Bowden.


Oct 12, 2008, 9:10 AM [ in reply to ESPN reported early that Arkansas DID NOT offer Bowden. ]

Baker should,have to take the 4 mil from his own personal account.Hug and kiss Bowden good by.And then,Baker should pack his bags.and say good bye to Clemson.there is no telling at this point.how many very good players at Clemson that,he has cost them millions,in a pro career in the national foot ball league.
If,and i do mean if.you have the balls,to hire.the very best thats out there, that can be hired.just maybe,you can help save the careers of the ones that will be coming back next season.These are Kids futures,that is slipping out of your hands (Mr.Baker)this very moment.
CJ Spiller, and others have laid their entire bodies and souls,out on that foot ball field.Mr.Baker,you owe them because of,A VERY VERY POOR DECISION.You and your staff made.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


It was Barker


Oct 12, 2008, 3:52 AM

"make a deal" he said

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

But BOW DOWN is a good christian man.***


Oct 12, 2008, 4:19 AM



badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

what does that have to do with anything being discussed?***


Oct 12, 2008, 11:57 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

oh you poor, poor soul. You will see one day.***


Oct 12, 2008, 12:19 PM



badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: But BOW DOWN is a good christian man.***


Oct 12, 2008, 1:29 PM [ in reply to But BOW DOWN is a good christian man.*** ]

sure does not make him any better as a coach....

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: But BOW DOWN is a good christian man.***


Oct 12, 2008, 5:50 PM [ in reply to But BOW DOWN is a good christian man.*** ]

What does that have to do winning football games?Give me a Nick Saban type any day.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

please***


Oct 12, 2008, 5:07 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

the owe us? what for? does that change anything?


Oct 12, 2008, 6:59 AM

all these articles lately are dividing us. Bowden's going to get fired, stay by your computers. oh, the administration OWES US an explanation. seriously?

the decision was made and we're having to deal with it. i'm sure they see the same problems we do, and are working to deal with them. they made a good hire with OP, so whatever happens with CTB, i'll be okay with. all i hope is that we don't become the laughing stock of college football like Alabama did when they hired Saban.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: the owe us? what for? does that change anything?


Oct 12, 2008, 7:53 AM

Alabama is a top 3 school right now. Nobody is laughing at Alabama!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

A better analogy is NC State and basketball***


Oct 12, 2008, 9:05 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

you missed the point***


Oct 12, 2008, 10:44 AM [ in reply to Re: the owe us? what for? does that change anything? ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Don't think anyone's laughing at Alabama now.***


Oct 12, 2008, 4:34 PM [ in reply to the owe us? what for? does that change anything? ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Excellent Article...However...


Oct 12, 2008, 8:10 AM

The big assumption throughout it is that Bowden will be fired at season's end. I'm not so sure he will be. I think it's feasible that Barker is quite happy with Bowden and that nothing will happen. I sure hope that's not the case, but it's feasible. TigerNation needs to do whatever's necessary to see that that does not happen.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 8:20 AM

[ . . . then he hid behind his typewriter and gunned the boy down. Here come the letters, the e-mails, the faxes, they raised him to 20,000 dollars after taxes. He's a happy critic... He's rollin’ in the dough... Man I could do this forever...this is easy. Everybody's readin’ my column!] -- This article reminds me of Toby Keith’s song “The Critic” from a few years back.

We all know the contract extension from last year provides a buyout of $4M should Bowden be fired prior to December 1st and $3.5M should it happen shortly after that. What no one has told us (or at least me) is what the buyout clause was prior to last year’s extension being put into place. With that info we can discuss the NET difference as to what last year’s negotiations are going to cost us at the end of this season. Regardless, if there was no such clause (I doubt that was the case), the way I understand it is we will most likely owe Bowden $3.5M. It is important to note is that this is payable over the remaining life of the contract, which is 3 years. A drop of 5,000 season tickets corresponds to about $1.5M per year and that is at face value (excluding the IPTAY premium).

Terry Don Phillips and James Barker are two of the best things to happen to our University in decades. Phillips made a great hire with Oliver Purnell and he kept our facility improvements on track and got them finished. He has raised our fundraising and corrected the seating inequality that he inherited from the previous, inept AD.

When faced with a football program that, on a scale of 1-5, has teetered between 3.75 and 4.25, an athletic director is going to have to make some tough decisions, especially at a school were the occasional 5.0 level is desired. For a journalist/critic to whine about a decision that did not pan out the way we all wanted is ridiculous. It was a fair gamble and seems to have been a solid business decision. In this case Phillips had no rearview mirror to look upon like the critic, and us as a whole, seem so eager and willing to utilize. Do the math, especially if someone with journalistic integrity will research the NET difference, and we find that, with basic financial and mathematical acumen, the contract extension was not such a bad financial gamble. Not all decisions work out the way we plan, even for the most talented of professionals. The attack on these two men in this article is despicable. Seems like only a week ago someone suggested we “Move On”; I believe it was the critic that made the suggestion. Yet, here we are discussing December 2007 as if we all had the answers for then . . . and for now.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

TB's old buy-out was $500k. Difference= $3M (from 12/2/08)


Oct 12, 2008, 12:00 PM

As reported right here on TigerNet, TB's old buy-out was $500k versus his new buyout of $3.5M (after 12/1/09). http://tigernet.com/view/story.do;jsessionid=61D2D6ACE59AC636B8BC5B6674F86603?id=3040

So that's $3M that Barker & Phillips WASTED since Arkansas never even offered Bowden a job.

There was no need to give Bowden such a big buyout. It was completely unneccesary and so it was a BAD business decision. According to the Anderson Independent, Clemson informed Bowden on 11/24/07 that they would give him a contract extension. That's about one week before Bowden met with Arkansas' AD, Jeff Long (who is an old friend of Bowden).
http://www.independentmail.com/news/2007/nov/26/philips-will-offer-bowden-contract-extension/

So it appears that TDP & Barker planned to give Bowden an extension, regardless of the Arkansas bluff.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Oh... and if he went to Arkansas he would have owed CU $2.5M


Oct 12, 2008, 1:06 PM [ in reply to Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String? ]

I don't have Bowden's old contract in front of me, but if the old buy-out provisions were mutual (as they usually are, and as his current buy-out is) then Bowden would have have had to have paid Clemson $2.5M if he had gone to Arkansas. Now Clemson will have to pay $3.5M to get rid of Bowden.

That's a swing of $6M!!!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The Critic


Oct 12, 2008, 8:21 AM

[ . . . then he hid behind his typewriter and gunned the boy down. Here come the letters, the e-mails, the faxes, they raised him to 20,000 dollars after taxes. He's a happy critic... He's rollin’ in the dough... Man I could do this forever...this is easy. Everybody's readin’ my column!] -- This article reminds me of Toby Keith’s song “The Critic” from a few years back.

We all know the contract extension from last year provides a buyout of $4M should Bowden be fired prior to December 1st and $3.5M should it happen shortly after that. What no one has told us (or at least me) is what the buyout clause was prior to last year’s extension being put into place. With that info we can discuss the NET difference as to what last year’s negotiations are going to cost us at the end of this season. Regardless, if there was no such clause (I doubt that was the case), the way I understand it is we will most likely owe Bowden $3.5M. It is important to note is that this is payable over the remaining life of the contract, which is 3 years. A drop of 5,000 season tickets corresponds to about $1.5M per year and that is at face value (excluding the IPTAY premium).

Terry Don Phillips and James Barker are two of the best things to happen to our University in decades. Phillips made a great hire with Oliver Purnell and he kept our facility improvements on track and got them finished. He has raised our fundraising and corrected the seating inequality that he inherited from the previous, inept AD.

When faced with a football program that, on a scale of 1-5, has teetered between 3.75 and 4.25, an athletic director is going to have to make some tough decisions, especially at a school were the occasional 5.0 level is desired. For a journalist/critic to whine about a decision that did not pan out the way we all wanted is ridiculous. It was a fair gamble and seems to have been a solid business decision. In this case Phillips had no rearview mirror to look upon like the critic, and us as a whole, seem so eager and willing to utilize. Do the math, especially if someone with journalistic integrity will research the NET difference, and we find that, with basic financial and mathematical acumen, the contract extension was not such a bad financial gamble. Not all decisions work out the way we plan, even for the most talented of professionals. The attack on these two men in this article is despicable. Seems like only a week ago someone suggested we “Move On”; I believe it was the critic that made the suggestion. Yet, here we are discussing December 2007 as if we all had the answers for then . . . and for now.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

2.5-3.125 (4-4,5-3 in conference)***


Oct 12, 2008, 8:52 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: The Critic


Oct 12, 2008, 2:09 PM [ in reply to The Critic ]

Had Bowden left for Arkansas, he would have owed Clemson $500,000. If we fire him before Dec. 2, we will owe him $4,000,000.00. "Doing the math" comes to a net loss of $4.5 million.

That's a pretty bad business decision.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I think you have a HUGE perspective problem and


Oct 12, 2008, 8:30 AM

if you are not part of the team or administration, you definately do NOT have the RIGHT to said information. You incredibly over estimate your importance and rights. You, I and virtually ALl the Clemson faithful stand outside the team, and will NEBER be inside it. We pump our egos by letting ourselves beleive we are inside. We are not. Am I disappointed, Hell yes. It the sky falling, hell no. Get a grip and some perspective!!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Thousands of dollars spent per year by many of us say


Oct 12, 2008, 9:52 AM

something different. I am not sure how much you pay to support Clemson, but I pay a hell of a lot and I am owed an explanation if they expect my continued financial support. If you do not come off the hip, or support Clemson in other ways, then they do not owe you.

If everyone has your attitude that no one is accountable to anyone (anyone being us, financial backers, and media), then you could expect to be a loser. Pressure from fans IS what gets things done.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I have also spent many thousands of dollars with IPTAY


Oct 12, 2008, 10:01 AM

That gives me a burning DESIRE to know, but not the right. I pay a lot of taxes too, but it doesn't give me the right to know what our military is doing at a tactical or strategic level in a war zone. Call it a bad analogy, but don't confuse what you want with what you have a right to. Also remember that rights come with responsabilities!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I do not believe that


Oct 12, 2008, 10:04 AM

You can see the thread I started for further explanation why...

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You do deserve to know if the military is wasting money on


Oct 12, 2008, 12:53 PM [ in reply to I have also spent many thousands of dollars with IPTAY ]

bad contracts just because the contractor is in the pocket of a senator. That should make you plenty angry.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

If you pay money to Clemson university, you have a right


Oct 12, 2008, 12:52 PM [ in reply to I think you have a HUGE perspective problem and ]

to know how that money is being spent, IMO. Apparently you don't care how it's spent, and that's fine, but don't tell me that I'm going thousands of dollars into debt and I have no right to know where the money is going.

And that's just the academic side...i'd be even more adamant if I was just donating money to the AD.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

good point***


Oct 12, 2008, 1:42 PM [ in reply to I think you have a HUGE perspective problem and ]



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

BOARD OF TRUSTEES....all decisions are made


Oct 12, 2008, 8:34 AM

with their input as well.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 10:36 AM

Great article! Thank you for calling a spade a spade.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Hindsight is 20/20, and a stupid question.


Oct 12, 2008, 12:50 PM

Do you really think TDP will say, "yea, Barker made me keep him"?

First - everyone who has had any kind of job of any significance has had a superior "tell them" what to do in a situation they didn't agree with. Now if it happens too much, good people will quit - but it happens.

Second - when this happens, what kind of spineless person says "yea, my boss made me do it". The guy saying that is a complete loser and you then publicly, and with your direct reports, lose their confidence in you. Again, maybe you didn't make the call - but no one should ever know but you and your boss.



Third - we were crucified in the press for canning Hatfield. A "good guy" who did things right. We all know the real story, and the program was heading down. That press did hurt us. Good news is, even though we have a "good guy" who wins...no one is saying "Clemson fans are crazy for running off a good coach who is a good guy".

One doesn't run an AD based on public perception, but it's a factor.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

There's no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people who ask questions.


Outstanding article and the exact questions that need to be


Oct 12, 2008, 1:47 PM

asked.

It was clear in December that Bowden should have been allowed to leave and someone or some people wasted at least 3.5 million of Clemson's money to derail that perfect ending to the Bowden era. That person or group should be made public regardless whether they are fired for that decision.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Does anybody really believe Ark. wanted Bowden. Friend...


Oct 12, 2008, 2:45 PM

helping friend get a raise.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Tom!!!! Love the article!! keep it up...but....


Oct 12, 2008, 2:47 PM

another question to ask is, how serious was Arky about Bowden???

Investigative reporting at its finest!!! Go find out, if you want to blow this thing up!!!!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The mystery to me is why has TB appeared to be out of it as


Oct 12, 2008, 4:41 PM

far as being into games. It seems like his heart has never been in it this season. Of course, I cannot judge a man by external experiences, but pictures seem to be worth 1000 words in this case. Do you think he really wanted to be back at Clemson this season or did he feel like he had "maxed" out at what he could do at Clemson and wanted a way out via Arkansas Hogs? Thoughts?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Fear of losing his job? Barker? Even if he is the one who


Oct 12, 2008, 4:42 PM

"pulled the string," what he has done for this school on an academic level is unprecidented. Any sports related decision pales by comparison.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Don't forget how he's raised tuition.


Oct 12, 2008, 5:18 PM

Basically took that lottery $ and made the benefits of it for students & families instate a wash...

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Don't forget how he's raised tuition.


Oct 12, 2008, 7:29 PM

Don't perpetuate misinformation by misstating a cause and effect. This continued argument against Barker is inane at best.

The legislature has continued over the past several years to cut higher education budgets to balance the state budget. Tuition has increased for the most part to compensate for lost dollars from the state and inflation. Lottery money goes ONLY to scholarships and for select endowed professorships. Hence none of that lottery money goes directly to university operation costs.

The only thing you can quibble with Barker about is that he chose to raise tuition rather than cutting faculty or increasing student enrollment as other universities have done. Increasing enrollment dilutes access to faculty members and in the case of USC, resulted in at least one year where there was not enough available housing to house incoming freshmen.

Just in the last week, Mark Sanford has asked all state agencies except for corrections and education (k-12) to submit 10% of their budgets that they feel can be cut to balance the budget for the second half of this fiscal year because of an expected shortfall in tax revnues. Consequently, tuition for SC colleges may increase again.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Please stop using US as your agenda to fire Tommy Bowden im


Oct 12, 2008, 5:38 PM

MId season.

For complete version of this letter, please check Tiger Board.

No Offense. Please stop asking for TB’s head like Mickey Plyler did in mid-season (Mickey Plyler’s article was a KILLER to that WF game ). Tommy Bowden, the assistant coaches and the players were all tensed up before the WK game was played.

This is demoralizing the TEAM. The players like Tommy Bowden.

Why don’t you ask TDP or James Barker yourself who was the one to give TB an extension of contract? IMO , the questions you want us to ask TDP or TB are just smoke that promotes your agenda for wanting Tommy to be fired.

If you love Clemson, please stop spreading poison of wanting Tommy Bowden to get fired. It is hurting us in getting top recruits and winning games.

Let’s face it. TDP cannot fire or hire any coach without the approval of the president. TDP could not fire Shyatt without Barker’s approval. I do think it is a mutual agreement that both want to extend TB’s contract.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Pretty sure the way our team has played in the last 6 games


Oct 12, 2008, 9:21 PM

has hurt our recruiting more than any article ever could. If you doubt that, why don't you call Craig Loston or any other recruits we have lost and ask them why they are not even considering Clemson anymore.

Our loss to WF had nothing to do with Mickey's article. We lost that one due to poor offensive playcalling.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Pretty sure the way our team has played in the last 6 games


Oct 13, 2008, 9:54 AM

How does someone in Aiken get to talk and know the mindset of our recruits and players??? Do you know these guys? I know you can not pick up 104.9 so Mickey isn't telling you to say that.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Please stop using US as your agenda to fire Tommy Bowden im


Oct 13, 2008, 9:55 AM [ in reply to Please stop using US as your agenda to fire Tommy Bowden im ]

I agree with you 100%.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 5:48 PM

Your article is pretty much right on except for a few facts.All Clemson fans would agree that Tommy Bowden is a good Christin man who graduates most of his players.They dont get in much trouble with tht law.Tommy would be a good role model if Clemson was Bob Jones University.What is the real job of Tommy Bowden?It is to do whatever is necessary to win football games and conference titles.He should be fired immediately.However,Barker and the administration need to get behind the football program just like they have the academic program.They need to commit themselves to winning the ACC title at all cost.Find a tough minded nasty coach with football his only priority.I dont care if he is a good man or a role model or a religious man.Winning is our objective!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 7:30 PM

I think you are dead wrong. There are coaches out there who have all the right qualities but still won football games. Think Tom Landry or Joe Gibbs the first time he was with the Redskins.
Being a good man and a role model has nothing to do with ability to win football games. There are plenty of "nasty" coaches who can't win either.
We should not throw away the good things with the football program, we need to build on them -with a different coach

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 13, 2008, 8:35 AM

Just find a big time college football coach this time!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 13, 2008, 9:31 AM [ in reply to Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String? ]

That is silly. Why not restart the crusade to get Coach Dannyback. What ever necessary.....usually ends up with Probation.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

20/20 Hindsight is a Wonderful Thing...


Oct 12, 2008, 8:26 PM

Please, spare us. If this season had played out as anticipated after the success of last season, Barker and Terry Don Phillips would've been heroes.

And any suggestion (am I reading this subtext right?) that Barker should somehow "be held accountable" after the great things he's done in elevating Clemson academically means that the author needs to get a life because his priorities are TOTALLY screwed up.

It's only a game -- academics are forever.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Commentary: Who Pulled That String?


Oct 12, 2008, 10:11 PM

Does it really matter?

CTB is not a good coach and if he went to Arkansas Clemson could have easily lost Bowers amongst others.

Would you trade 3 seasons of Bowers for 1 of CTB?

I would.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Bowers was coming to Clemson whether CTB was there or not.


Oct 12, 2008, 10:14 PM

He's been a Clemson fan his entire life.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Student-Athlete not Athlete-Student


Oct 13, 2008, 10:21 AM

I want to win on the field as much as any Clemson fan, and I am as upset as anyone that this years team is just not clicking. In fact, it seems every time we have control of our season, when the big game is at hand, the team folds.

But as we prepare to show Bowden his walking papers, remember the many many student-athletes who have graduated from the football field and from Clemson to go on the be productive people in our community. This is something to be very proud of, and to give Bowden credit for. If you cannot see the value of these young men excelling in the classroom then you do not understand the concept of a student-athlete. MOST of the football player who go through any NCAA program will never play a snap on Sunday. Do we want to be the school that takes advantage of a teenager, uses them up, then abandons them with no future at 22 when their football career is over? All for what, a extra win here and there?

I want to win, but I want to win the right way...both in the classroom and on the field. Next time an Alabama fans talks junk to you, tell them at least the players from my team are going to graduate from college!

Hey, part of the job of coaching is teaching players to execute on the field, so of course at 3-3 Bowden has his flaws. I just hope that in this head hunting expedition we don't cut off our nose to spite our face. We need what is best for Clemson both on and off the football field.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Student-Athlete not Athlete-Student


Oct 13, 2008, 10:28 AM

Blah....blah...blah. Great first post. You are not saying anything different than people have for the past 9 years.

You must work for the university.....Barker's office probably.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Some coaches (like Grobe) graduate playes AND win titles.


Oct 13, 2008, 11:41 AM [ in reply to Student-Athlete not Athlete-Student ]

Wake Forest has higher academic standards than Clemson, yet somehow Jim Grobe is not only capable of maintaining high graduation rates, but he also runs a clean, championship-winning program at a lowly little basketball school. I wish we had a great coach.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Some coaches (like Grobe) graduate playes AND win titles


Oct 13, 2008, 1:18 PM

You may get your wish now razz....I hope we pull in a good one!!!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

wake has won one championship and they are terrilbe


Oct 13, 2008, 1:19 PM [ in reply to Some coaches (like Grobe) graduate playes AND win titles. ]

right now...sure, they beat us, but what does that mean this year?

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: wake has won one championship and they are terrilbe


Oct 13, 2008, 4:01 PM

WITH WK AND THE FACT MICKEY GOT RID OF TB AND RS....WE WILL NOT LOOSE ANOTHER GAME. I PREDICT WE WILL BEAT GA TECH 45-0. GO TIGERS!!!! WK 300 YDS PASSING 100 RUSHING 4 TD'S

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Some coaches (like Grobe) graduate playes AND win titles.


Oct 13, 2008, 3:59 PM [ in reply to Some coaches (like Grobe) graduate playes AND win titles. ]

GROBE IS AT ABOUT A 50% WINNING %. THE YEAR THEY WON IT...WE BEAT THEM. HE CAN'T COACH. WE NEED SOMEONE TO TAKE US TO 14-0. NOTHING LESS WILL DO.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Grobe won the ACC with LESS talent than Clemson. Imagine...***


Oct 14, 2008, 12:45 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 78
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic