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Virtuoso [610]
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You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 14, 2013, 9:27 PM
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They didn't rebuild any golf courses because of Jack, but Augusta National did because of Tiger.
Tiger is also the only player to win all 4 majors consecutively.
Tiger also has almost every record in the majors for total score and score relative to par.
Tiger also has more wins in about half as many tournaments and only plays the top events,with the deepest hardest fields, on the hardest courses. If Tiger played 30+ times a year like Phi, Jack, and everyone else he'd have well over 100 PGA wins.
Jack doesn't say Tiger is the best because he is "gracious". What nonsense. Jack is a ruthless competitor. He says it because it's true.
I saw an interview this week with Monty. Monty was NEVER a fan of Tiger, but he said hands down Tiger is the best! So do Johnny Miller and pretty much every current & ex-pro and most experts.
And if you think Jack had better competition you are deluding yourself!! How many 14 year olds made the cut in Jack's day? There are thousands of touring pro players around the world today. Maybe a few hundred at most back in Jack's day. Money, TV exposure, modern travel, etc. have all changed the landscape.
When Jack played the same 10 or 12 guys won most of the time. Today anyone that qualifies has the talent to get hot and win!
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Legend [19352]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 14, 2013, 9:30 PM
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lol they changed courses due to club technology not Tiger.
I love ignorant Tiger fans who probably didnt know the sport existed before Tiger came along.
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 14, 2013, 9:33 PM
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and the golf ball. it is much better now. I'm sure mowers and turf grass varieties are too.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I hear the new grips add 100 yds as well
Apr 14, 2013, 9:36 PM
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: grip it and rip one
Apr 14, 2013, 9:44 PM
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just dont go downwind!!
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Orange Blooded [2245]
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All-TigerNet [10469]
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Virtuoso [610]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Wrong. No Tiger, no changes to Augusta National, but keep
Apr 16, 2013, 3:08 PM
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fiction sure is fun have any more stories princess.
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Varsity [233]
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You can mock that crowd
Apr 20, 2013, 10:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever? ] |
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Of which I am one, but I'll bet the eyeballs-on-TVs guys, the network execs, don't agree with you.
Lance put American eyeballs on the Tour De France. Those are likely gone. Golf just doesn't interest me that much. But if Tiger is in it on a Sunday, I'll watch.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I stopped reading after your 2nd sentence because it is
Apr 14, 2013, 9:36 PM
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not correct.
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Orange Blooded [2722]
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I say that Tiger has one distinct advantage over
Apr 14, 2013, 11:08 PM
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Jack. The ability to cheat on his wife w/so many different womens. He may possibly have him beat on T level as well.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Which Jack are we talking about?
Apr 15, 2013, 11:20 AM
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He didn't have that advantage over Jack Kennedy
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110%er [6692]
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Virtuoso [610]
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It is correct. Did he win all 4 in the same year, no. But he
Apr 15, 2013, 7:32 PM
[ in reply to I stopped reading after your 2nd sentence because it is ] |
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did win all 4 consecutively. So my 2nd sentence is 100% correct.
No one else has even come close, not even Jack. Golf isn't tennis. Having a golf grand slam is stupid. It's never been done and only Tiger has come close. In tennis it's man vs. man on the same 4 courts every year. Golf is man vs. course and the courses change every year. Plus it's a totally different sport.
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Legend [19686]
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Not sure you can fairly compare them as Jack played the
Apr 14, 2013, 9:40 PM
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prime of his career with blade irons and persimmon woods. Tiger has had state of the art equipment his whole life. Augusta adjusted because with the equipment today I can drive it 280. If I were using a wooden driver it would be 50 yards less and God help me if I tried to hit a blade iron instead of the center weighted stuff today that forgives those hits not quite center. Let me see Tiger do it with the equipment Jack did, because I know if Jack had the equipment Tiger does you could probably tack on another 10 majors. And let's not forget their is not one competitor Tiger has as good as Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, heck even Sam Snead or Raymond Floyd
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Don't forget Billy Casper, who still has more points in the
Apr 14, 2013, 9:43 PM
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Ryder Cup than any other American.
Edisto is stretching facts to prove his point. Let me use one of his facts to prove my point. The competition is so weak today even a 14 year old can make a cut in the Masters. See what I did there?
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Virtuoso [610]
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Not at all, helps prove my point further.***
Apr 15, 2013, 7:41 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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?, how did that post help your argument ?
Apr 20, 2013, 9:23 AM
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the competition today isn't anywhere near what it was when jack was in his prime.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Everything you wrote is complete BS. Clubs & balls don't
Apr 15, 2013, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Not sure you can fairly compare them as Jack played the ] |
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matter because Tiger's & Jack's peers all used the same equipment. Also, the biggest & most important part of golf is putting, which has little to nothing to do with equipment.
As far as talent there are guys out there more talented than the people you listed. When Jack played there were few players with great talent. Today anyone in the top 250 of the rankings has the talent to win every time they tee it up. It's not even close, and most people, including experts AND Jack agree!! Jack said so in an interview with Feherty.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Hard to compare different eras......give Jack todays ball,
Apr 14, 2013, 9:41 PM
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clubs, and manicured course and who can say what he does.
Also, Jack didn't tee it up ever week either.
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Orange Blooded [4754]
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Jack hit it 300 when the equip and especially the ball were
Apr 15, 2013, 7:09 AM
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CRAPPY. Jack vs. Tiger? I'll take Jack due to his integrity. Tiger is a great athlete and golfer but an absolute ZERO as a decent human being.
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Virtuoso [610]
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He played a lot more than Tiger. You had to then, less money
Apr 15, 2013, 7:40 PM
[ in reply to Hard to compare different eras......give Jack todays ball, ] |
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in the game.
Equipment arguments are ignorant. Jacks peers & Tiger's peers all have equal equipment and the same balls. Also, putting is the key and technology has had little impact on putting. Except for the long putters like Scott used to improve his game, but the R&A and the USGA are already outlawing.
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110%er [6851]
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Bobby Jones won all four majors in the same year. Tiger
Apr 14, 2013, 9:45 PM
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won them consecutively, but not in the same year. As SI says, "That's a fact, Jack!"
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CU Medallion [67820]
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Re: Bobby Jones won all four majors in the same year. Tiger
Apr 14, 2013, 9:46 PM
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JOnes played with wooden shafts. amazing anyone could hit with those clubs
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110%er [6851]
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Yep! And the club heads today are at least twice the size.
Apr 14, 2013, 9:50 PM
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The metal woods look like you could go deer hunting with them they are so big.
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Legend [18133]
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Virtuoso [610]
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Wrong. He won two majors and two amateur events that the
Apr 15, 2013, 7:47 PM
[ in reply to Bobby Jones won all four majors in the same year. Tiger ] |
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pros were not allowed to play in. I love stupid people acting like Bobby Jones won the grand slam. What a joke. Only two of the majors even existed then and had there been more money in golf Jones would have turned pro and not been eligible to play in the two amateur events. Furthermore, you can count on one hand the people with enough money back then that played golf who could afford and were willing and able to pay the travel expenses to play in the US and British Amateurs. This is a red herring if there ever was one!!
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Member [20]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 14, 2013, 9:53 PM
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Think about the clubs Jack played with, and now look at the clubs Tiger has and all the updated technology. Tiger will never be Jack and I hope Tiger never wins another tournament.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Technology is moot. Tiger & Jack's comptition use the
Apr 15, 2013, 7:50 PM
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exact same balls and equipment.
Do you see cars from 1969 racing at Daytona? No! But every car in 1969 was from that era and every car at Daytona now is from this era.
This is such a moronic strawman people like to use.
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Starter [379]
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Jack was/is a better husband and dad/granddad***
Apr 14, 2013, 9:56 PM
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110%er [6781]
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Tiger Sux***
Apr 14, 2013, 10:17 PM
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Rookie [12]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 14, 2013, 10:28 PM
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who really cares.....
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Legend [19352]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 14, 2013, 10:33 PM
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Shocking the OP disappears after being shown how clueless he is.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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That's commonly referred to as a hit and run***
Apr 14, 2013, 10:38 PM
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Virtuoso [610]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: There was no need to return. My facts are solid.***
Apr 16, 2013, 3:07 PM
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Except many of them have been shown to be complete BS. You really need to look up the meaning of the word "fact"
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Heisman Winner [140468]
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I have a funny feeling we've been set up. Fall back, fall back!***
Apr 14, 2013, 10:57 PM
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All-In [25393]
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I credit both with great success, given the eras. Both
Apr 15, 2013, 7:28 AM
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were/are superior athletes with loyal fan bases and detractors, as well. The problem I have comparing/contrasting the two is the same I have considering, say, former/current Clemson athletes: the changes in the game, equipment, even the type of training, as well as officiating make it difficult to say one is better than the other.
Thus, I prefer the thought that each was/is a champion for his era and will be long hailed in the sporting world. And somewhere there are some teenagers who will eventually carry the mantra and earn the same laurels, perhaps, even more.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Yet in every sport this debate is held & wins tell the tale***
Apr 15, 2013, 7:52 PM
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Orange Blooded [2755]
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Legend [15526]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 15, 2013, 7:35 AM
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I won't argue that TW is quite a gifted player, and he probably is the best ever to play the game. He i sa very gifted player. That said, it is hard to make the bold statements you made. Technology has changed the game so much since the hey day of Jack and Arnie.
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Virtuoso [610]
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It doesn't matter. Jack & Tiger had peers using the same
Apr 15, 2013, 7:53 PM
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equipment.
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Legend [15526]
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Re: It doesn't matter. Jack & Tiger had peers using the same
Apr 15, 2013, 9:40 PM
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You are right, and Jack smoked his peers too. Both are great golfers, Jack is a more faithful man, Tiger is much better at picking up waitresses at low end breakfast diners, but he has golf skills that are unmatched. He did, by the way, get his #### smoked last weekend, however, and I was expecting him to win the tourney..
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110%er [5436]
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Legend [15526]
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Re: It doesn't matter. Jack & Tiger had peers using the same
Apr 20, 2013, 9:17 AM
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Don't know if Jack would smoke him, but Tiger has had the benefit of a lot of technology, and a lot more information about physical fitness that wasn't even considered much in Jack's heyday. That said, Jack became very fit as his career progressed (he was quite rotund early in his career), but time catches up with all of us, and I see it, even with TW. Both will be known throughout the annals of time as great champions, however TW can never match Jack when it comes to character, IMO.
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CU Medallion [60228]
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Jack could hit a 1-iron
Apr 15, 2013, 8:14 AM
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discussion over.
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Commissioner [907]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 15, 2013, 11:18 AM
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Courses now match the level of technology. How far wood Tiger hit the ball with persimmon woods? About the same as Jack did.
Also: Bobby Jones says Hi on the winning the majors!
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Virtuoso [610]
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Wrong. Jones won 2 majors the other 2 didn't exist and the
Apr 15, 2013, 7:57 PM
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two amateur events he won was like Tiger playing in US or British Amateur today. He had no real competition. Pros can't play amateur events. The ONLY reason Bobby Jones was an amateur is cause back then he was already wealthy and made more money as an attorney. He would be a pro had he played in the late 50s or after.
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110%er [5436]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 15, 2013, 11:41 AM
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" If Tiger played 30+ times a year like Phi, Jack, and everyone else he'd have well over 100 PGA wins. "
As soon as I saw this statement - I realized that I'm listening a lot of speculation - with no proof. Sorry dude, but I call that 'Talking out of your ###".
That said: Tiger is also an excellent golfer IMO.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Go look at their schedules. Most pros play close to 25
Apr 15, 2013, 8:07 PM
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events, about 10 years ago most played more like 30, but as the money goes up they play less. Tiger, however, typically only plays around 16 to 18. Go look at the year end money list, look at the top 10, Tiger is always at the top but plays significantly fewer events. No one even comes close to money won per event played.
http://espn.go.com/golf/moneylist
Scroll through the past 10 to 12 years. It's not even close.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Go look at their schedules. Most pros play close to 25
Apr 16, 2013, 2:12 PM
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I guess they made the course to hard for him this past weekend?
The reason tiger doesn't play anymore than he does is because he picks the courses that suits him best. In other words he's scared
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All-In [36409]
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I Don't Think Jack Ever Won After Being Beaten With a 4 Iron***
Apr 15, 2013, 11:53 AM
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Rooter [202]
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Re: I Don't Think Jack Ever Won After Being Beaten With a 4 Iron***
Apr 15, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Proof Jack was the man:
18 majors
19 runner up in majors
48 top 3 finishes in majors
56 top 5 in majors
73 top 10 finishes in majors
Also 2 US Amateurs
I don't know who is best but that record has never been matched.
That is equivalent to 18 years of majors and all finishes being in the top 10, that is solid.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Jack didn't have anywhere near the competition Tiger has.
Apr 15, 2013, 8:13 PM
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The Masters
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Jack - 6 wins 15 top 5's
Tiger - 4 wins 11 top 5's with many more to play
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Jack didn't have anywhere near the competition Tiger has.
Apr 16, 2013, 2:12 PM
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So now it's just the masters???? Make up your mind
Tigger is DONE LOL
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Orange Blooded [2557]
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Many courses not on the PGA's slate of venues have had to
Apr 15, 2013, 4:14 PM
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redesign their courses because of the technology of today's golf club's and ball's. Bobby Jones won the, "Pre-Masters" grand slam in the same year. I agree that Tiger plays against top to bottom better competition, but Watson, Jacklyn, Palmer, Player, Trevino, excetera weren't exactly chumps.
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Virtuoso [610]
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They didn't just make the course in Augusta longer. They did
Apr 15, 2013, 8:18 PM
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many other things with Tiger in mind.
Bobby Jones was the best player in the wold in his era but was allowed to play as an amateur because he never turned pro because back then he made more money as a lawyer. He had no other pro quality competition in the US & British Amateurs. Also, back then, very few people had the money or ability to travel and play both amateurs. Even in the 60s you could count on one hand foreigners playing on the PGA.
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Orange Blooded [2557]
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If you make a course harder for, "the best
Apr 16, 2013, 1:55 PM
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golfer of all time", doesn't it by definition make it harder for everyone else too? They moved some tees to make the angles off the tee tougher to keep the ball in the fairway, and to make the players work the ball both ways. Also, they added/moved tree's/bunkers in order to toughen up Augusta. The conundrum I see is that Bobby Jones/Nicklaus/Tiger will never be able to play one another in their primes. You'll believe Tiger is the best ever, I'll wait till/if he breaks Jack's record. No doubt he's one of the most gifted golfers of all time, and I have no problem calling him the most athletic golfer ever.
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 15, 2013, 4:24 PM
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Dabo could beat both Tiger and Jack if he decided to play every day for two months--he refuses to fail when he puts his mind to it!
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CU Medallion [52328]
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Virtuoso [610]
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Many of those "stats" are very flawed and don't properly
Apr 15, 2013, 8:21 PM
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take into account true levels of competition.
Bottom line, poll the pros, now & then, experts, broadcasters, the media, etc. and Tiger will win the vote!! It probably wouldn't even be very close.
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CU Medallion [52328]
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At this point, Jack would win
Apr 15, 2013, 8:47 PM
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When Tiger's career is over and can be judged completely, it could be different.
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Legend [17599]
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Whoever plays now is best because its now! That's proof!***
Apr 15, 2013, 8:28 PM
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110%er [7913]
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Joined: 1/8/02
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last I checked 18 is greater than 14***
Apr 15, 2013, 8:52 PM
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110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11913
Joined: 9/23/01
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Re: You want proof Tiger is better than Jack and the best ever?
Apr 16, 2013, 2:07 PM
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Check Tigers top 5 finishes in majors and then check Jack's Not even close.
Tiger has NEVER came from behind to win a major after trailing on Saturday.
I'll be waiting over here with the crickets
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110%er [6692]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11164
Joined: 10/14/07
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So now the criteria includes how "close" you were to
Apr 16, 2013, 2:46 PM
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winning?
This is getting ridiculous. Next we will start talking about amateur wins, how many hole-in-ones each had, their career score on hole 4 at the Open Championship, etc.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
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a 60 year old tom watson showed me all i needed to know
Apr 16, 2013, 2:16 PM
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about today's sheep and the tour tiger feasted on.
nicklaus says it, tiger faced very few lions, champions, players that would rip your heart out or stare you down. there might be more players, doesn't mean there are more cold hearted killers. there aren't.
the valdez didn't leak as much oil as this tour.
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