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Rookie [16]
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How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 11:49 AM
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http://cfn.scout.com/2/1248862.html
In these weeks after the ouster of Gene Chizik at Auburn, it was
particularly apparent that Gus Malzahn was more central to Auburn's
ascendancy in 2010 (though Chizik deserves all the credit in the world
for hiring Malzahn as his offensive coordinator). Similarly, it is
felt in much of the college football community that Morris – the
offensive coordinator, not the head coach – is the man who is most
responsible for turning Clemson into a 10-win program and the 2011 ACC
champion. With Morris losing in his bid to become Texas Tech's coach,
Dabo Swinney – the Chizik of Clemson – gets his key coordinator for
2013. It is hard to see how Morris will remain a coordinator in 2014,
but Clemson and Swinney have been given one more year in which to max
out on offense. The Tigers get Florida State at home, so the table is
set for them.
I say we need to give Dabo a raise and make sure he's here another 10 years so that Morris will stay, too.
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110%er [7159]
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poor composition..need more paragraph breaks...***
Dec 13, 2012, 11:54 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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it's the truth.
Dec 13, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Chizik just like Dabo, is only as good as his coordinators.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: it's the truth.
Dec 13, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Unlike Dabo, Chizik is an idiot and based his offensive philosophy on his coordinators. Dabo went out and got a guy to run his style of offense and will continue to do so while at Clemson.
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CU Guru [1838]
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Why didn't HE run his style of offense before???***
Dec 13, 2012, 1:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [3350]
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Personnel for starters.***
Dec 13, 2012, 1:24 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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What???? name one person on this team that didn't have
Dec 13, 2012, 1:26 PM
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an equivalent prior to CM
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Sammy Watkins, Nuk Hopkins. Do you remember
Dec 13, 2012, 2:16 PM
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our 2010 receiving corp? That team had NO weapons after Ellington got hurt. Nuk was the only decent playmaker on that team and he was a true freshman, and not even remotely close to the same caliber of player that he is now. Also Boyd is much better than Kyle Parker, especially after Parker hurt the shoulder his soph year.
I think it would be a tougher job to name players from this team that DID have an equivalent on the 2010 offense.
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CU Guru [1838]
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2009. Spiller Ford Allen and NFL caliber Parker
Dec 13, 2012, 2:21 PM
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Who made the decision to keep playing Parker over Boyd?
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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And we made the ACC title game and put up pretty solid
Dec 13, 2012, 2:32 PM
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offensive numbers that year. Obviously it wasn't the same offense that we are running now as 90% of it was designed to get Spiller the ball. Everyone on the planet (aside from Chan Gailey) would've done the same thing. What's your point?
And don't even try to tell me that 2009 FR Kyle Parker was in the same league as 2011 or 2012 Tajh Boyd. He completed 55% of his passes that season and had 20 TDs with 12 INTs.
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CU Guru [1838]
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8-5 and beat Kentucky with 21 points Wow offense juggernuat
Dec 13, 2012, 2:35 PM
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Hey Dabo said he was NFLer
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: 8-5 and beat Kentucky with 21 points Wow offense juggernuat
Dec 13, 2012, 5:56 PM
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Pretty good for a freshman. Parker had an NFL arm and probably would have been much better his jr and sr year but why risk it with money in the bank.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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CU Guru [1838]
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Spurrier does run the offense. As HEAD coach, Dabo
Dec 14, 2012, 12:48 PM
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directs the philosophy and vision. Surely he could have said
HEY BILLY RUN SOME FAST PACED STUFF FROM THE SPREAD.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I think that's true of a lot of coaches; at least I don't
Dec 13, 2012, 12:30 PM
[ in reply to it's the truth. ] |
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know of any successful coaches who have bad coordinators.
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Oculus Spirit [78888]
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Hall of Famer [21848]
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Re: it's the truth.
Dec 13, 2012, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to it's the truth. ] |
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Chizik was a DC at 4 schools before becoming a HC....nothing like dabo.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Correct! Chizik was a pretty good DC at Auburn and
Dec 13, 2012, 1:11 PM
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Texas; lots of experience, but turned out to suck at being a head coach. On the other hand Dabo NEVER was a cordinator, but has turned out to be a pretty successful head coach.
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CU Guru [1928]
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Re: it's the truth.
Dec 13, 2012, 1:52 PM
[ in reply to it's the truth. ] |
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chizik, just like dabo, just like his players will dictate how great Dabo will be as a coach
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Scout Team [171]
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Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Isnt that the purpose of hiring an offensive and defensive coordinator? The job of a head coach is to put in place a team of coaches and manage them and make final decisions. In today's football, head coaches are generally more like figureheads that do more delegating than coaching...
Why pay for coordinators if HC's are supposed to be masters of all things football?
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CU Guru [1617]
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Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 11:58 AM
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Other good coordinators exist. Dabo will find them. I have been extremely impressed with his hiring ability to this point.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 12:00 PM
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Well, to be fair, he's 1/3...Could be 2/4 or 1/4 depending on how Veneables turns out.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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The only bad decision he made was making Napier OC.
Dec 13, 2012, 2:21 PM
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Please try to refrain from making result-based analysis. It's incredibly easy to look back and say something was a bad move after the fact, but the truth is that most people were behind the hires of both Steele and Venables.
If you got all of your chips into the pot with pocket aces and lost would you say that you made a stupid move? Was the other guy a genius just because he sucked out on you and won a big pot?
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Recruit [97]
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The old saying of ........
Dec 13, 2012, 12:08 PM
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"If I gotta do all the work then I don't need you" applies here. All successful head coaches hire successful coordinators to do the job that they were hired for. If Dabo has to do ALL the work then he wouldn't need good coordinators. Let them write what they want to write about Clemson because winning on the field actaully erases all of the bull crap!
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110%er [8008]
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Huge difference in the Clemson and Auburn situation.
Dec 13, 2012, 12:11 PM
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I don't think you are even close here.
Dabo knows what he wants to do offensively and he went out and hired someone who could do it. When Morris leaves Dabo will replace him with another OC who can run the offense Dabo wants. It's the kind of offense Clemson/Dabo has recruited.
Auburn was a successful spread team, but when Malzahn left Chizik went in a completely different direction and drastically changed the offensive style. He didn't have the players he needed to run their new style and it cost him his job.
Everything else you wrote was just crap aimed at once again discrediting Dabo.
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All-Pro [659]
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You nailed it Bashful Baron. Couldn't have said it better.***
Dec 13, 2012, 12:14 PM
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Aficionado [151]
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This was talked about alot in the preseason
Dec 13, 2012, 6:38 PM
[ in reply to Huge difference in the Clemson and Auburn situation. ] |
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You cant recruit players, with a natural talent for your scheme, to play in a spread offense and then expect them to be able to effectively run Alabamas offense. Its not happening.
That being said, no one thought it would be this bad.
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110%er [8008]
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That's right. If you want to make that kind of change you
Dec 13, 2012, 6:50 PM
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better be committed to the idea, because it will usually get worse before it gets better.
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Letterman [282]
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Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 12:13 PM
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we could give dabo a lifetime contract and it wouldn't help us keep morris.
the only way morris is staying for more than a year or two is if we fire dabo and give morris the head coaching job.
as for their statement, i can see that being the perception. the difference is dabo hasn't been dumb enough to push morris out like chizik did to malzahn, and when dabo did get rid of his first oc, he went out and got a better one. chizik got that part backwards.
chizik started with a bang and then started trending down, waaayyyy down. dabo at least seems to have the ship pointed in the right direction even if it does veer off course from time to time.
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Walk-On [142]
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Dabo is smater than Chezik
Dec 13, 2012, 12:19 PM
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He recognizes his limitations and hires coordinators to make up for his shortcomings. He is willing to forgoe more money to ensure that he has the funds to hire coaches like Morris. In doing so, Dabo's actions suggest that he may be one of, if not, the best "CEO" style coaches in the country. Dabo recruits top-shelf talent and sell the program to boosters, etc., and he turns over the play calling to his coordinators. Still, dabo will not be able to keep Morris forever, he will eventually land a big-time HC job and huge contract.
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All-In [49613]
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It argues from a false premise...
Dec 13, 2012, 12:36 PM
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That argument is that Morris is solely responsible for Clemson's success. It's appealing, but false.
Let there be no doubt that Morris helped move Clemson's offense into hyperspace, but he was following the the shared vision of his head coach. At Auburn, it appears that Chizik was pragmatically using the bodies he had in a style offense he didn't like.
Dabo is not the Chizik of Clemson. His success is agumented by his assistants, not dependent on them. It's a telling difference. And when Morris moves on ... and he will, as do all excellent coordinators who wish to move up ... then Dabo will bring in another coach who shares his offensive vision.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Agreed - there is this assumption that since Dabo never
Dec 13, 2012, 12:50 PM
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was coordinator himself, and therefore was never recognized as an offensive/defensive genius, that he is some kind of x's-and-o's ###### who is totally dependent upon coaches with real football knowledge. As you point out, that is appealing to those who don't like Dabo and argue from that premise, but it is not necessarily true.
There have been plenty of great coaches who had a vision, understood plenty about x's and o's, but rather than micromanaging either side of the ball, implemented their plan and realized success through the intelligent selection and use of good coordinators.
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CU Guru [1838]
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where was his acute vision in 09 and 10?***
Dec 13, 2012, 1:34 PM
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110%er [8008]
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You're confusing vision and execution.
Dec 13, 2012, 1:41 PM
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Dabo has stated the up tempo spread was his preferred offense since the day he was hired. Clemson actually set school records on offense in 09. He decided after the failed 2010 season he did not have the right OC to realize his vision so he made a change.
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CU Guru [1838]
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He just didn't know how to do it. 2009 had
Dec 13, 2012, 1:45 PM
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Spiller and Ford right? Who was coordinator then?
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110%er [8008]
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I guess I'm missing your point.
Dec 13, 2012, 1:56 PM
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1. We all know Napier did not achieve what Dabo wanted.
2. We all know that in 2010 we didn't have Spiller or Ford. Nor did we have Watkins, Peake, Bryant, Humphries, and Nuke was a clueless freshman. Lack or qualty recievers really hinders the ability to run the spread, right?
3. I'm already bored with you and I really don't care what you want to believe.
So...
Merry Christmas
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CU Guru [1838]
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Merry Christmas to you as well.***
Dec 13, 2012, 2:07 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I would say that the facts point to Morris being mostly
Dec 13, 2012, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to It argues from a false premise... ] |
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responsible. I don't think Dabo is the outright Chizik of Clemson but there are some noteworthy similarities.
We win with offense. Our offense sucked before Chad Morris got here. We only have 2 ten win seasons in the last quarter century. 100% of Chad Morris's career at Clemson accounts for 100% of those 10 win seasons.
I'm not saying fire Dabo or anything... but I am saying the evidence is pretty damning. Maybe Dabo can make another good hire. I would say the evidence points to Dabo being a good evaluater (I made that word up) of talent too.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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I think everyone here knows Dabo's strength has never
Dec 13, 2012, 12:49 PM
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been on the field with Xs and Os. We knew going in, like Bowden, Dabo was going to live and die by the assistants he's hired and he's done a great job so far.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Re: I think everyone here believes that.
Dec 13, 2012, 1:28 PM
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Is it possible that Dabo went out and hired a guy who runs an offense just like Dabo wanted?
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Asst Coach [727]
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Re: I think everyone here knows Dabo's strength has never
Dec 13, 2012, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to I think everyone here knows Dabo's strength has never ] |
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not that they know everything about the offense, but Dabo was a WR coach before the HC gig. To me it seems as though he has a pretty decent grasp on offense from that particular angle. WRs need to be able to recognize coverages/schemes too, not as much as the QB, but if the WR is able to do that he usually is able to put up big numbers. Again, not saying Dabo is a X's and O's genius, just saying that he knows a lot more about the offensive scheme than most people/haters would like to admit. I'm enjoying this situation in Clemson, while it will always have ups and downs Dabo has done some great things for Clemson so far, can't wait to see what happens next! (NC would be sweet!)<<<<<
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CU Medallion [64589]
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I couldn't disagree more
Dec 13, 2012, 1:00 PM
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It's akin to comparing apples and oranges and anyone who has been even remotely paying attention knows it.
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All-In [40929]
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Malzahn will fail
Dec 13, 2012, 1:31 PM
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crazy wife
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CU Medallion [64589]
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She is a littly nutty but she apparently likes to ....
Dec 13, 2012, 1:41 PM
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run around the house nekked so she's got that going for her.
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Orange Blooded [2965]
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Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 1:46 PM
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I never have to ask how I feel or how I shold feel! All in all thats a lot of dabo bashing crap!
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Dabo much better than Chizik...coot***
Dec 13, 2012, 1:47 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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Dabo had an NFL quarterback in Parker, with Spiller and
Dec 13, 2012, 1:51 PM
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Ford and Allen and he went 8-5. Chizik won NC with Cam
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Parker was an NFL QB? LOL that's pretty funny
Dec 13, 2012, 1:59 PM
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our 2009 team did not have the talent that Auburn's 2010 team did and that's a simple fact. They were strong were it really counted, the trenches. And Newton was a force not seen before and he caught even the legendary Saban by surprise.
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110%er [8008]
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Dabo said he was when he was trying to stroke his ego and
Dec 13, 2012, 2:02 PM
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get him to come back to Clemson instead of going pro baseball. Some people actually believed Dabo then, or they just want to use his words to criticize him now.
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CU Guru [1838]
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Dabo lied?? Blasphemy
Dec 13, 2012, 2:08 PM
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Heretic!!!!
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Legend [16134]
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Do you REALLY want to talk about Coaches lying? What
Dec 13, 2012, 3:04 PM
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about riding motorcycles and hiring their mistress?
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CU Guru [1838]
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I don't think Dabo lied. I think Parker was a very
Dec 13, 2012, 3:07 PM
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good QB who was encouraged to play hurt and got skiddish.
What do you think of Petrino replacement?
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Legend [16134]
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Think Arky blew it not going after Gus...Not been very
Dec 13, 2012, 3:29 PM
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impressed with Brett...
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CU Guru [1838]
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not impressed either. He did pretty good up there
Dec 13, 2012, 3:36 PM
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at least the last game. Dont know how he will do down south recruiting wise. His name makes me think of an eating disorder
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Legend [16134]
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He was given the keys to a Caddy at UW and you certainly
Dec 13, 2012, 3:54 PM
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couldn't say he overachieved there... He has recruiting ties in UF, that's about it...2 and 4 in bowls, but one of those wins came against Arky...
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Legend [16134]
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Not UF, just the state of Florida...***
Dec 13, 2012, 3:55 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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Legend [16134]
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Why didn't Arky interview Gus?***
Dec 13, 2012, 4:03 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
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the fix was in at Auburn I guess. I thought he was for sure
Dec 13, 2012, 4:38 PM
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going to get some interest. The Chizik firing was way in the works and Gus was probably already locked in there
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Letterman [282]
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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You should form your own opinions and not seek validation
Dec 13, 2012, 1:48 PM
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through the opinions of others
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Orange Blooded [3908]
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Lol..Newton is why Chizik won then lost, not Malzahn.***
Dec 13, 2012, 2:10 PM
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Re: Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 2:58 PM
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Ummm not coordinators but Cauldwell and Elliot are pretty darn good hires!
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Re: How should we feel about this, guyz?
Dec 13, 2012, 3:39 PM
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I don't know how you can call Elliot a "good hire..." there's not a lot to coaching running backs.
The verdict is still out on Caldwell.
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Head Coach [790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1597
Joined: 9/9/04
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I feel we should use "s" instead of "z'"***
Dec 13, 2012, 3:45 PM
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Orange Blooded [2253]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2967
Joined: 11/30/98
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I feel that you and your 14% pulse are COOT material !!****
Dec 13, 2012, 6:01 PM
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CU Guru [1895]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 3258
Joined: 7/24/10
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Clearly Dabo is the first coach to ever hire coordinators...***
Dec 14, 2012, 12:50 PM
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