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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Why I will defend Marcus Smart
Feb 9, 2014, 2:49 PM
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I have sat beside way to many cowards with big mouths at Clemson football games. I lived with and was good friends with a Clemson offensive linemen when I was in school. I occasionally came across some pretty good tickets, and would venture out of the student section. I was sitting in the lower deck, around the 50 yard line, during a particular game when my friend picked up a personal foul. The fat guy next to me exploded. He ran through every insult he could think of for my friend. Questioned his intelligence (my friend graduated in 5 years with a Masters degree). Said, "This is what you get for recruiting thugs". You know, pretty much said everything in the book calling my friend the n-word without actually saying it. This guy would have never said these things to my friends face, but buying a ticket somehow gave him the courage to say these things. I politely asked the gentleman if he would like to discuss this with my friend after the game, because I would gladly pass on his phone number, or better yet, our address. The gentleman clammed up and didn't have much to say after that. You know, sometimes people need to be held responsible for what they say, and buying a ticked doesn't buy you the right to personally insult people.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Wow...you're psychic?
Feb 9, 2014, 3:03 PM
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"You know, pretty much said everything in the book calling my friend the n-word without actually saying it." Get a life loser.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Let's see
Feb 9, 2014, 3:05 PM
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Called him a thug, mentioned "the hood", questioned his intelligence. You can say something without actually saying it.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: Let's see
Feb 9, 2014, 3:10 PM
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Thug, hood ....is NOT the N word...if the N word is horrible, and I think it is, then who are you to say he meant that but says something else?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You must not be good at using context clues
Feb 9, 2014, 3:11 PM
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If one of our white offensive linemen picked up a personal foul, would those things have come out of his mouth?
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: You must not be good at using context clues
Feb 9, 2014, 3:13 PM
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Wow context clues? Impressive
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You are impressed by context clues?
Feb 9, 2014, 3:16 PM
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You must be easily impressed.
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Oculus Spirit [81889]
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I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.***
Feb 9, 2014, 4:08 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Do you think he knows ClemsonRulz?***
Feb 9, 2014, 4:11 PM
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.***
Feb 9, 2014, 4:33 PM
[ in reply to I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.*** ] |
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Soccer I'm sorry you feel that way. I am tired if people saying that thug equals the N word or that some guy is calling someone that name without saying it. It's ridiculous. It has gone too far.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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What does the word "thug" mean?
Feb 9, 2014, 4:34 PM
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Please define it.
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110%er [5994]
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I think
Feb 9, 2014, 10:02 PM
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that "thug" is a round about way of saying the N word. When a white guy calls a black guy a thug im willing to bet that he is thinking in his head "that #### N*****"
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Exactly, the only time you here certain white people call an
Feb 9, 2014, 11:58 PM
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athlete a "thug" is when they are black. You don't here those certain white people call Richie Icgonito a thug, even though he has been kicked off of 4 NFL teams and kicked out of Nebraska in college, and has a history of sexual harassing women.
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Hall of Famer [20945]
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Please explain to us all why you think it's proper to throw
Feb 9, 2014, 4:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.*** ] |
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insults to kids when you need to act like a grown A$$ man and set an example...go on...tell us all.
Thug...N-Word...white/black/neon green in color...go on and explain why you think it's okay to stand in the bleachers and throw insults to people doing something you could probably never come close to doing...
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Oculus Spirit [81889]
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a. 2Pac defined "thug" for you
Feb 9, 2014, 4:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.*** ] |
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b. As Drew also explained, there were many other contextual clues that went along with "thug"
c. Get off your soapbox, you're wrong
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Legend [16902]
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Re: I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.***
Feb 9, 2014, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am saddened 919Tiger lives in Raleigh.*** ] |
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People are saying it because it does. Words have ever shifting meanings and can have different meaning simultaneously among different cultures/subcultures. It is why linguistics is an actual area of study. The Richard Sherman situation demonstrated quite clearly that "thug" has evolved to be the word that white people feel comfortable calling black people for simply being black people. You rarely get such a large sample size with readily apparent demographic info as you did after Sherman's speech. And the fact of the matter was Sherman, who would not meet any quantifiable definition of the word "thug," did not do anything more than talk boisterously after a football game. He did not threaten anyone outside of a clear cut football context, he did not use obscenity, he did not shove, push, chest bump, or anything else anyone. He was assailed as a thug for a combination of his tone of voice and appearance. The response to which broke down almost entirely along racial lines. You might not intend to be racist if you use the word thug but the fact is that it's underlying meaning has shifted and your intentions do not make it any less offensive.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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CU Guru [1328]
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Extremely well said DTA03
Feb 9, 2014, 3:04 PM
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Call it a mob mentality or whatever you'd like, but for some reason people think that buying a ticket gives them a right to act in a manner that would be completely unacceptable outside of a sporting arena.
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All-In [29036]
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You don't have to defend the player's actions
Feb 9, 2014, 3:15 PM
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To condemn the idiot running his mouth.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Nobody likes the loud-mouthed coward you described, and I
Feb 9, 2014, 3:20 PM
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certainly won't defend him. It wouldn't really bother me to see a "fan" like that get his comeuppance. I don't blame a player, under certain circumstances, from getting fed up with it either. Having said that, at no time is it okay for a player to go into the crowd after a fan who is running their mouth - ever - even for a racial slur or personal insult.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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He was all ready in the crowd, he just turned around
Feb 9, 2014, 3:22 PM
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Maybe players shouldn't be able to land in the crowd after making a play under the basket.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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He shouldn't have pushed the fan.***
Feb 9, 2014, 3:27 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Again I agree
Feb 9, 2014, 3:29 PM
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I was just pointing out that Smart didn't run into the stands looking for the guy. Smart was all ready in the stands.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I understand - just clarifying my point.***
Feb 9, 2014, 3:32 PM
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CU Guru [1654]
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CU Medallion [58411]
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I just watched, and Smart was way out of line.
Feb 9, 2014, 4:35 PM
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The fan may be a total A-hole, but Smart, after getting up, walked up to the fan in an aggressive manner. The fan made a motion with his hand, but was not a threat in any way to Smart. The fan may have been wrong too, but nothing he did warranted the assault by Smart. Nobody can put their hands on another person in that manner (shove) because they are mad at them - even if it is understandable that they are mad. Smart was wrong - no ifs, ands, or buts.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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The player didn't go into the crowd….
Feb 10, 2014, 12:01 AM
[ in reply to Nobody likes the loud-mouthed coward you described, and I ] |
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In basketball there is no barrier between the fans and the court. He fell out of bounds and was right in the stands. Marcus Smart was wrong for what he did, but at the same time players shouldn't have to face a situation where the step 2 feet out of bounds and there is an opposing fan yelling in their face.
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Hall of Famer [20945]
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I gave you a TU and posted this response after reading...
Feb 9, 2014, 3:50 PM
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I have sat beside way to many cowards with big mouths at Clemson football games.
Now...on to the rest of your post.
I too am in Smart's corner.
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Freshman [2]
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"thug"
Feb 9, 2014, 4:20 PM
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Why do you people look for every opportunity to make everything about race? Ever since richard shermans incident. How many sports fans do you really think are this racist?
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Hall of Famer [20945]
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I think Jeff Orr is this racist...
Feb 9, 2014, 4:22 PM
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that is all...
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You think Sherman is the first to be called a thug?
Feb 9, 2014, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to "thug" ] |
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I heard this over 10 years ago. Sometimes, it is about race.
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110%er [6866]
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Re: You think Sherman is the first to be called a thug?
Feb 9, 2014, 7:26 PM
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We get it Drew...you are a liberal. You can stop with MSNBC talking points
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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yawn
Feb 9, 2014, 7:39 PM
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You have anything better than that, or you just that intellectually incapable / lazy?
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110%er [6866]
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Re: yawn
Feb 9, 2014, 8:07 PM
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No, Im being serious....I actually saw the same talking points in the liberal media today that you have you have used in your arguments. They discussed how the white man has turned "thug" into the new "n word". They related the smart incident and the sherman incident as being extremely racist not because they actually said anything racist, but because of the "racial overtones" and "implied references" (haha, that was a funny segment. You would have liked it)
So my comment was only addressing the talking points you are using. If you don't believe me, just flip on the news and you will probably hear it again soon.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I would flip on the news...but I don't actually have a T.V.
Feb 9, 2014, 11:22 PM
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So sorry if my talking points are in line with someone else.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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it's been a racial code word for a while….
Feb 10, 2014, 12:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: yawn ] |
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anybody with a brain knows this
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110%er [6866]
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Re: it's been a racial code word for a while….
Feb 10, 2014, 9:33 AM
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Well when I saw the Smart thing happen, I said "THUG" because he used a violent act to combat words....But then I went to the gas station and saw a white guy using foul language at the counter and I said "thug".....Am I a racist?
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Legend [16902]
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Re: "thug"
Feb 9, 2014, 5:01 PM
[ in reply to "thug" ] |
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Lots
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Thug
Feb 9, 2014, 4:41 PM
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Some white guy standing over the body of some guy he just pummeled in an alley can be a thug . It's use is not confined to color. The N word is wrong but so are you in saying that word is equal.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: So how does thug apply in this situation?
Feb 9, 2014, 4:54 PM
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Work in law enforcement for a period of time and then come back and tell me thug is reserved for blacks or the equivalent of the N word. The man you referenced never said the word, enough said. He sounds like a jerk but the N word is too inflammatory to say you know what he meant.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I disagree
Feb 9, 2014, 4:58 PM
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It's just that you can't say the N-Word in public, so you get around that by saying everything but that. Oh, well, he called him a thug, said we s recruit players "from the hood", and that he must be dumb, but he didn't actually say the N-Word, because that's inflammatory?
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Legend [19610]
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I don't know if the N word was used or not. But I do know
Feb 9, 2014, 5:32 PM
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that Marcus Smart has a history of outbursts, confrontations and anger issues.
Now the guy in the crowd, as you noted, probably is the big mouth fan you described...pretty reprehensible for any adult.
I gues my stance is that the public doesn't have the right to run their mouths unchecked but the test case for a defense needs to be somebody with better character than Marcus Smart.
BTW, had my morning workout ruined by two big black guys in the gym who used the MF phrase every other sentence..and loud! I find that as offensive as anything that you can call somebody.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Marcus Smart has never been in trouble off the court
Feb 9, 2014, 5:55 PM
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He has never been ejected from a game, in fact he has 1 technical foul this season (stemming from the even last night). He did kick a chair after a frustrating game the other night, but that hardly makes him the loose cannon you are portraying him as.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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drewtigeralum03 I must respectfully disagree
Feb 9, 2014, 7:32 PM
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While I understand full well where you are coming from, I played basketball growing up as well and heard some not so kind things, the fact remains that Smart was still in the wrong.
You can not under any circumstances put your hands on a fan if they aren't physically assualting you. It can't be allowed or things would get very ugly very quickly as all fanbases have jerks and people that probably deserve to be hit. However the player cannot do it.
The fan should be disiplined just as Smart has been as neither were int he right in this case.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I will defend him to this point
Feb 9, 2014, 7:37 PM
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He shouldn't have the "thug" label thrown at him, and the fan shouldn't be painted as a "victim". I agree that what he did was ill advised, to say the least, and he deserves to be punished for it, but at the same point, while I don't condone it, I really hate the tough guy fans that think they can say whatever they want with no consequence. I hope the spotlight also finds this fan, because, from my understanding, it won't be pretty for this fan either. He has a long history of being an idiot.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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No argument from me. I don't think Smart is a thug at all.
Feb 9, 2014, 7:42 PM
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And that fan is anything but a victim. Both were at fault and both should be punished in some way.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Why I will defend Marcus Smart
Feb 9, 2014, 8:23 PM
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Your points are correct BUT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT SMARET DID.PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. THE FAN WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG BUT IN NO WAY WAS SMART ENTITLED TO DO WHAT HE DID. He's very lucky he didn't hurt the guy or he would have gotten a major lawsuit that would have gotten his attention.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: Why I will defend Marcus Smart
Feb 9, 2014, 8:31 PM
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Disagree totally. It doesn't matter what was said to Smart. There's no excuse for going into the stands. Missouri students chanted awful things to KU's Thomas Robinson about his dead mother a few years ago, but he played on. IMO that's way worse than anything racial, which didn't even happen in the Smart incident.
I will say that fans do say things that are out of line. I've done it myself, and so has just about every other passionate sports fan. But players and officials are supposed to shrug it off and go on with the game. Anyone who is on the court or field that's paying attention to what the fans are saying isn't doing his job.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I agree the chants are terrible
Feb 9, 2014, 8:35 PM
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This fan made the mistake of feeling brave enough to actually say it to Smart's face.
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CU Guru [1203]
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Did any of you guys catch wind of the UVA/FSU scramble
Feb 9, 2014, 8:43 PM
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After the game in Charlottesville? On a recent visit to the area, we stayed with a big UVA fan. He was bragging in a way about how the FSU players were playing very thuggish. Anyways, a fan apparently put his hands on Leonard (HC) and pretty much got ripped back by the staff. He was apparently "in motion" to physically respond to the fan.
In any case, my acquaintance says it never made media outlets. So, it's really hearsay at this point. However, I sort of believe this guy because he's such a UVA homer. My take was the same as the OP. Fans have zero entitlement other than just an uninstructed view (unless you are sitting down behind me). Stay out of the game otherwise.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Why I will defend Marcus Smart
Feb 9, 2014, 8:48 PM
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well said,, certainly agree!!
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Varsity [228]
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Ah, the media storm and instant news we live in now days.
Feb 9, 2014, 10:58 PM
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This "incident" was and is not a big deal. He was upset; An idiot said something inappropriate, and he overacted. After that it should have been over with after an internal punishment. But now with the media scrutiny and desire to get viewers it's blown out of proportion. The funny thing is that he made the right decision (after admittedly making the very wrong one) and walked away after over reacting. Not saying he shouldn't be punished but come on. The "incident" was a 21 or so age kid getting angry at a fan for yelling a very offensive remark then walking away even though he was obviously upset. If everyone was this harshly judged for mistakes then very few would ever be able to overcome their past and become upstanding citizens.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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^^^We need more common sense like this^^^***
Feb 10, 2014, 12:08 AM
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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DTA- I probably agree with your posts more
Feb 9, 2014, 11:03 PM
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than anyone on here, but as Corso would say, Not So Fast my friend. I can certainly appreciate your story of fans mouthing off while having no appreciation of who these guys are on and off the field. I disagree with two major things... The first being that it is Ever under any circumstances ok to physically interact with fans. While annoying and often distasteful, the opposing fans will usually try to get under the skin of the opposing team. That's just part of the make up of sports these days. The players have to learn how to deal with this.
The second thing I disagree with is the thought that is is ok to just start throwing blows because someone uses the n word. I thought it was interesting watching Smart plea with the refs and coaches like he was looking for acceptance. Like somehow his actions were justified because some dude called him a n. I know this is more of a cultural thing, but it is this attitude that will always keep the n word around. As long as people get fired up over it, it will always have power and thus never die. The second there is no response, it loses power and in turn will fade away because it has no real meaning other than showing that you yourself are ignorant. It's sort like the cracker thing. It has no power because no one reacts to it.
Ok I'm off my box now. Carry on.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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I think this was a little different
Feb 9, 2014, 11:19 PM
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It's one thing for a fan to yell at a player from a distance, but Smart was in the stands about 2 fee away from the guy when he started running his mouth. This goes from heckling to personal in my opinion. The grown man could have stopped running his mouth at any point.
While I agree that you shouldn't put your hands on people. I can understand how someone, in the heat of the moment, could have such a reaction. If the guy said the same thing to Smart on the street. I'm guessing Smart would just ignore him. His emotions were all ready on overdrive, when the big man in the stands said whatever it is he said.
I think 3 games was a fair suspension, and I hope this "fan" also shares a little bit of the spotlight for being a habitual idiot.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: I think this was a little different
Feb 9, 2014, 11:36 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tqqJ_h7ak
You can hear someone yell "You piece of crap!" around the 18 second mark. I didn't hear any racial slurs at all. The video seems to corroborate the guy's claim in his apology.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Oh, so getting in a players face and calling him a piece of
Feb 10, 2014, 12:07 AM
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crap is ok.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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In a word, yes. Classless tho.
Feb 10, 2014, 12:31 AM
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Not sure if serious...
Message was edited by: elwyn07®
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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I hear ya man
Feb 10, 2014, 12:26 AM
[ in reply to I think this was a little different ] |
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I think you've done a good job of defending what has turned into the topic of the evening.
Ultimately I disagree and it all comes down to one thing. The onus of self control falls on the player. As much as it doesn't seem fair, the fan can say whatever they want. But guess what, the players aren't penalized for talking back.... They are however, and rightfully so, penalized for physically taking it into their own hands.
We all can understand why he did it. And to your point, could the fan have kept his mouth shut... Sure, but he doesn't have to and there is no reason he should. He is doing his job as he sees it, getting under the players skin. To this point, it is on the player to control his own actions.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Difference is, in Football when a player steps out of bounds
Feb 9, 2014, 11:53 PM
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there not right in the stands with the fans. So all football players here is yelling from the stands. In Basketball a player can step out of bounds and be right in the stands with a fan in their face. Big difference between a nasty fan shouting something at player when there is a barrier between the field of play and the stands.
Basketball at all levels needs to put up barriers between the court and the stands. Just had a fight here in SC, in high school basketball where fans got involved.
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