Topic: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.
Replies: 117   Last Post: Nov 29, 2012 8:51 AM by: rsn911
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You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

emoji_events [145]
Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:11 PM

I have watched this board in full meltdown mode for two days. We are beginning to look like Gamecock fans.

I am a season ticket holder and have donated enough money to IPTAY to have four tickets on the 40 yd line/lower level and a parking space next to the stadium... so alot of money in the mix. I AM NOT happy about losing to Carolina once, much less four freakin' times. That said... here is my take.

I don't want to be South Carolina. Not now. Not ever.

If that means recruiting kids that meet our academic standards for athletes (Clowney did not and wouldn't have been admitted) and not seeing classless buffoons like Swearinger, Clowney, Hampton, Roland and a legion of others in Orange and White, I will take 10-2 in the ACC Dabo's way.

Many of you love to reference the '81 National Championship, but have conveniently forgotten that for several years or even DECADES after that, we were known as cheaters who didn't deserve that win. We love to wave our signed Perry Tuttle Sports Illustrated around, but have we thrown out the reams of newspaper articles about our probation? We were a "football factory". We were a laughing stock. We were what South Carolina is now. A classless operation that no one respected. Ask other SEC fans what they think of South Carolina. Ask them... they make fun of them. Constantly. Is that who you want to be?

No matter who our coach is, South Carolina won't win forever. We will beat them. Auburn beat Alabama for SEVEN consecutive years... who remembers that now? Auburn went the South Carolina route and brought in thugs like Fairley and Newton for a quick fix of respectability and now their coach has been fired and they are under NCAA investigation. How long ago does that 2010 National Championship seem like to Auburn? It seems like 20 years ago.

Get mad... demand more... don't stand for less!!!! I am with you! Until you start screaming "FIRE DABO". Then you are an idiot in my eyes.

We are 10-2 with two losses to teams that were both ranked 3rd at one time this year and remain in the Top Ten. These two teams both had elite defenses. One of them - Carolina - features a trancendent talent in Clowney the likes of which may not be seen around here in quite awhile. He is Carolina's Cam Newton.

Dabo is doing this right. We are closing the gap on Carolina and FSU. We lost to Carolina by 10 and dropped 37 pts on FSU's vaunted defense in THEIR house. Our players graduate. We recruit very well. We are known as a classy program. We have a championship trophy in our case that doesn't date from the 50's.

We WILL beat Carolina. This is the best run for this program in 100 years and they still don't have a championship to show for it. Goody for them.

Clemson people are mad and they SHOULD be. But be mad at Carolina. They have thrown what little class and integrity they have away and it shows on the field. They look like the Miami Hurricanes of the past and the act is getting old. They are an embarrassment to the state.

Don't turn on our players... our coach or our school.

I will close with this...

Carolina... Enjoy this. You have first rate athletic talent and a top notch coach. You also have a coach who is the biggest jerk in college football. So bad his alma mater ran him off. Your talent is great but many of them couldn't get in Clemson. We don't admit that many Partial Qualifiers. You have your fun now... but understand that it WILL be short lived. The more years the streak goes on, the sweeter it will be when we beat that ###... and you can bet we will... and soon.

When Spurrier retires, call Gene Chizik. I hear he is available. Maybe you can get some convicted felons like Newton and Fairley to play for you too. Just make sure you lock up your laptops... again.


I am a bitter and angry man.

Best post on here in 2 days

emoji_events [8]
Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:14 PM

I agree. I am a Clemson grad, 4 tickets - although not as good as yours :)

We will get back to beating them. It will take time. But we will do it with quality young men and it will feel so much better.

worst post of the year, more like it when you start to...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:33 PM

slander quality Clemson men, like Perry Tuttle and Jeff Davis.


TigerKing... see my response below.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:03 PM

I haven't slandered anyone at Clemson. My post was about national perception, not about people.


I am a bitter and angry man.

Yea lay off 1981 team.....class act and class coach.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:02 PM

If that wasn't so Coach Frank Howard would not have supported them. If it was good enough for him, it should be good for all of Clemson, and make no mistake, that honarable man loved Danny and his Tigers.


^^^Well said^^^***

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:15 PM

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*** Thanks guys... just speaking my mind.***

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:19 PM


I am a bitter and angry man.

Miami was thuggish at one time too and won but haven't in

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:20 PM

Years now...does this mean they are doing things the right way now by losing the talented thuggish players?

Remember the last time Miami won a national title, the...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:35 PM

players weren't "thuggish". Miami was thuggish when Dennis Erickson was coach there. That kind of attitude stopped when Butch Davis took over after Dennis Erickson.



Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:24 PM

2020 student level member


Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:32 PM

As a Gamecock fan, I have enjoyed this post the most.

I don't want to be them.

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:33 PM

Well stated. We have been a Clemson family for years and I have brought my daughter up that way. My wife went after her Master's degree at USuC only because it was the only reputable (choke, choke) school that offered what she wanted. She now has her degree and still has no good thoughts about them. We visited several times and my daughter, who has been to CU games in most major sports, asked me why anyone would want to go to USuC. She went to a game there with a classmate and came home and simply said "it is nothing like Clemson". I have ridden Harleys and owned Jeeps and both groups say " It is a Harley (Jeep) thing, you wouldn't understand. I say the same thing to any fan of any other school. IT'S A CLEMSON THING. YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND! If you can't tell the difference between us and them, go on back to them.

^^^ YES to all of these posts!!! ************

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:44 PM

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:44 PM

very good analysis

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:47 PM

I love the "We wouldn't take XX player" jazz. You do realize you recruited most of the same guys. You offered them, told them you wanted them and you would have admitted them.

Your coach told JD Clowney he loved him.

Don't fool yourself. Every coach in America is doing the same things. Clemson is nothing special and you are just sticking your head in the sand.

I love you

You just demonstrated your ignorance of the process...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:02 PM

Clemson knew Clowney was almost a sure thing to Carolina. Very late in the process he hinted that he might be open to Clemson and considering he was the hottest name in HS football, we had to be in. If we hadn't jumped in, the media message we are sending other studs in our state is that we don't care about them. Recruiting is a game and we lost that one. Stay out of it and you look aloof... get in the race and lose and you were the bridesmaid.

The ACC is only allowed one PQ a year and we would have admitted him on that basis because of who he is and his skill level. That you are right about.


I am a bitter and angry man.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 9:52 AM


You are saying that Clemson holds the standards to high education? Clemson?

Don't get me wrong, I have many friends who went to Clemson and they are very sharp, intelligent people with highly respectable jobs. But to act like your football team is among the educational elite of your university is laughable. They are football players. Usually, you can stereotype a football player in one of two ways:
1) the type that actually studies, knows he won't be playing professional football so his education and degree are important.
2) the type that is placed so highly on a pedestal by his peers that he feels like he doesn't need classes, finds ways to cheat on tests, projects, homework, etc. And when he graduates, he either gets drafted, walks on a team, plays in Canada, or is royally screwed for not taking his education more seriously.

EVERY college has players on both sides, and some that skirt both. To act like Clemson is the mecca of South Carolina colleges in terms of quality education and your football players take advantage of that is ridiculous. Some do, some don't. Just like another college: South Carolina. Some take it seriously, some don't.

In fact, it wasn't a "thug" that ripped apart your defense last week. It was a guy who, during his post game interview, used a Bible verse in just about every response he gave. That could be a "fake-Christian" thing, but who are you or I to decide that? That's between him and God to determine his authenticity. At the same time, he's a good kid. As is Shaw. As is Lattimore, who the state nearly laid down a red carpet of condolences when he went out with his injury. Why? Because he's the type of guy who is so highly respected that even hated rivalry teams lay down the guns to send respect.

Don't judge an entire team based on your speculations, especially when your team (and every team) has athletes that behave the same way.

Take your loss for what is is: a one game loss. It sucks more because it's a rivalry game loss, but you still went 10-2, which about 80 other teams wish they could say the same thing.

Good job, sir!***

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:55 PM

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Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 5:59 PM

I do agree! This is the best post I've seen in the last couple of years. There's people on this board, suggesting we "obtain some thugs"...I for one want some intense defensive players, but I DO NOT want the stigma, or reputation of some of these SEC teams, to read about your athletes in the crime/sports section of the newspaper. There's been a few instances, but I'm VERY thankful, it's not the norm. Both college and pro teams frown on being a "Babysitter" for these men of no character. You've no doubt seen the write-ups almost weekly, especially if they are high profile. The list goes on. I prefer our team with character, not a team of "real characters".

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Sounds like you just want everyone

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:17 PM

to know how much money you have. Mr Big Money over here

My point was that I try to invest in a program that

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:15 PM

won't lose to South Carolina.

People tend to show their true passions by what they spend time and money on.

No offense intended Sir.


I am a bitter and angry man.

sounds to me like he wants people to know he has more

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 7:54 AM

invested than talk and feelings.

Re: Sounds like you just want everyone

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 3:04 PM

> to know how much money you have. Mr Big Money over
> here

Old big time tater. But still a butthurt tater. Fear the thumb. five peat is coming

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:18 PM

You make great points. We certainly don't need to recruit "thugs". We just need a little better player development.When I saw Dabo with Clowney at a Clemson basketball game, I thought to myself if you get that guy past admissions you are a descendant of Houdini. I knew he was the real deal as a player but please maintain some academic integrity here. We tried with Bellamy and that didn't work so well.

Excellent Post!

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:26 PM

So now you're Duke? Lmao, you can't make this crap up!!!!

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:22 PM

Thank you....the best post I have seen on this website in 2 years. THANK YOU !!!

Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:31 PM

successful careers outside of football. That 1981 team was not what SCU is today. The Whitney scandal alone involved about 55,000 dollars more than the small amounts of money that Clemson doled out during our scandal. A majority of our infractions back then, were from two players that went to UT. None of the players on that 1981 team taunted or were admitted with shaky academics. Clemson has never ever been like those classless losers at SCU. And please do not slander the names of quality Clemson men, like Perry Tuttle and other players from that 1981 team.


Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:34 PM

Ha ha ha, you mad!

Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:39 PM

Hahaha, you 15.

Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:39 PM

I've had enough of you !! Shut up !!


Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:43 PM

So what? Are you going to come and beat me up or something?

Uh oh! We've got a tough guy here.***

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:46 PM

2020 white level member

Re: Uh oh! We've got a tough guy here.***

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:54 PM

I know, where does this guy get off telling someone to "shut up" on a forum? I guess he doesn't know about the freedom of speech.

He may not know about free speech, but he's an expert

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 1:19 AM

at identifying JACKHOLES like yourself who are only here to stir up trouble.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Gamecocks aren’t ready to take college football by storm just yet. They’re not even ready to compete in their own state – Clemson will still own the territory. Gamecocks fans would be smart to keep their heads buried until that time. Avoid talking trash to a much better Clemson program.” -Dustin Tackett

Re: He may not know about free speech, but he's an expert

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:27 AM

JACKHOLES, way to scream that one out. JACKHOLES, well I've never, hmf.

Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:46 PM

Listen punk I told you to shut up. No I'm not going to physically beat you up. But you'd be surprised how I can make your life a living #### !!


Re: Biggest POS Post Of Week

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:51 PM



Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:52 PM

Me Trog, me smash head!

Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:54 PM

Ok have it as you wish.


How are you gonna make him pay when you don't even know

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:01 PM

who he is? Chuck Norris?


Re: Nearly everyone of those 1981 players went on to have...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:36 PM

Play nice

TigerKing... I meant no disrespect to any of those

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:56 PM

fine Clemson men. I know several and am friends with them, including Perry Tuttle.

My comment was geared more towards the external perception of our program thanks to the probation. My point was that if your program is anything other than squeaky clean in this day and age, anything positive is wiped out.

We know the scandal of the 80's was limited in scope, but it had a huge impact on Clemson's image.

Again... no offense meant to those guys at all... or to you Sir.


I am a bitter and angry man.


Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:58 PM


Thank for understanding King... I appreciate it.***

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:11 PM


I am a bitter and angry man.

Re: TigerKing... I meant no disrespect to any of those

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 11:52 AM

don't forget, lot of that was due to Tates Locke's best BB team money can buy. Football got tainted along with it although we weren't clean there either.

There were 12 prop 48 players on the 1981 team

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 1:43 PM

That was before the limits on partial qualifiers were in place. To say that none had shaky academic backgrounds is incorrect.

FSU's Defense looked great against that Florida offense

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:34 PM

spin it whatever way you like to make you feel better, you aren't catching up any time soon.

You are 10-2 with your signature win being Ball State, and being dominated by the only 2 teams that were ranked, thanks for the compliment on Clowney though.

What gap was there to catch before 2009? Didn't you have the upper hand and was miles above our program? What turned so suddenly?

The "talent that couldn't get into Clemson" has done a pretty good showing head to head on the field don't you think?

LOL at the thuggish comments. DJ plays with a lot of emotion. I'll admit he's somewhat thuggish on the field, but you'd love to have a player on defense with that much intensity, plenty of Tnet have already said they would. DJ doesn't sum up our entire team. Check out Thompson, Lattimore, Taylor, and a long list of others on and off the field.

Re: FSU's Defense looked great against that Florida offense

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:46 PM

What's up #######. Thought you didn't run your mouth over here?

A coot win streak was inevitable. At some point and time you had to go on a winning streak and finally you did. Congrats. Like I told you and your butt buddies on CT, your coach is still a ####, your players are still thugs, your stadium is still a dump, your mascot is still a chicken, and your program is still the ######## of the SEC.

You don't sound sour.***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 2:27 PM

There is no shame in losing to top ten teams...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:20 PM

... Carolina did.

By the way... FSU didn't dominate us and Carolina didn't either. You won by ten.

Understand this... Carolina is BETTER than we are right now. I get it. I admit it. My post is geared towards the ones on here that want to eat our own.

By the way... I think you have some really great kids on your team. Unfortunately, your coach's approach to discipline (Garcia) has stained your program so you can get a couple of more wins. Don't blame me or us for that. Our bad apples get suspended (Watkins) for their FIRST offense. The repeat offenders (Bellamy) get booted off the team... even if they are one of our better players.


I am a bitter and angry man.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:34 PM

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, only thugs know how to play ball? According to OP, that is the case. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, take the loss and build on it. I want both of these teams to be 11-0 next year and every year after to make this the best rivalry game in the USA.

Thank you

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:50 PM

You were spot on! One of the best posts I've read on here


emoji_events [13]
Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:53 PM

Who showed up Saturday for a 'Classy display of sportmanship?' Most of us showed up to see Clemson win. And if they happened to win big...ie, 63-17, and rubbed SCU's nose in it, even better.

Class, Classy, Classy post, Classy fanbase...I am so tired of the assertion of "class." This fanbase is rapidly turning into James Barkers goal: Virginia.

Was it a "classy" display by Swearinger? No. But 95% on here opine on the days of "Swagger"...Chester McGloctin, the Perry's, Terry Allen, Danny, etc. Did Tajh display "class" when he unveiled the Superman pose and ripped his helmet off after two TD's? Did our students display their "classiness" when they threw beer bottles onto the field? Did our special fan show "class" with his one finger salute to the nation? Did Dalton make you proud..."we haven't been beaten, we only beat ourselves?" Did our coach show "class" two days after losing by three scores with a premeditated rant saying this isn't a rivalry, this is a domination, USC, Carolina is in Chapel Hill yada yada...

Class is in the eye of the beholder. It's subjective.

What is happening inside our football program is not subjective. We are Charmin soft. Our coaching staff tells our team how special they are, they can't be beat (they can only beat themselves), and they lean on a tradition of excellence they have never paid the price for. The heck with your definition of "classy." I'd go back to the days of Danny tomorrow- and if you don't think we had players back then that walked a fine line between control and reckless abandon on and off the field...you weren't paying attention.

Simms... you make some very good and very

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:13 PM

valid points.

I was not happy when Tajh did the Cam pose nor was I happy the week before when Dalton Freeman got two personal fouls.

You are right... it does happen. I think I made some good points about program perception and I stand by them, but there is some homerism in there too. I can't help it...

Good post.


I am a bitter and angry man.

Re: Simms... you make some very good and very

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:38 PM

You really think Dabo would not have taken Clowney is where your post gets ridiculous!If Dabo had thought he had no chance at Clowney he would have never told him he loved him.The thing about not admitting players because of academics goes out the window whith CJ Spiller.



Posted: Nov 27, 2012 9:26 AM


AMEN AMEN and I say AMEN!!!

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:25 AM

God bless you brother, we are soft. Clowney calls us out and we do nothing. Swearinger does his Clay Mathews pose and nobody pounds his ####. FIND SOME PRIDE! PLEASE!

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:21 PM

I for one would love to have players with the talent that USC has.. I love all of our guys at Clemson but none of them are Clowney and Swearinger is a freaking beast. I do not like some of his little taunts but thats just who he is. We will be back to playing some good D soon enough and if USC can jump ahead of us in a few years we can catch back up to them soon enough. Im proud of our guys but its just this simple, USC is better than us at this point and they are more battle tested and was not phased by our crowd etc. Congrats to USC on the win and please know that Clemson will beat you again lol but im glad we are both starting to get some recognition so we can have our rivalry at the top of the list and get some national recognition


You really think Clowney wouldn't have been admitted here?

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:26 PM

If Clowney held a press conference on NLI Day and announced that he wanted to come to Clemson, there is no committee of faculty geeks on campus who could have kept him out. Dabo would have gone straight to Barker and/or BOT and demanded that the kid get a chance at Clemson...and we would have welcomed him here with open arms and celebrated our great achievement in getting him away from the Coots.

We have turned away several 4 star players during the...

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:26 AM

Bowden and Dabo era's because of academics.


Re: We have turned away several 4 star players during the...

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:56 AM

The only one I remember is the Jones kid that ended up at UNC. This board melted down about the academic board not letting him. Now we're saying that was a good thing?

Yes, Pumpers are morons, all year they bash the sec and

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:21 PM

usc and talk about how bad they are, that they are propped up and pumped by ESPN, but then usc stomps us and suddenly it's not our coaches fault, but the ACC's fault becuse usc plays in the sec which makes them tougher. If the ACC were better we'd be more prepared for big games.

lol, seriously?

Not only is that insanely stupid and lame, but it's contradictory.

Pumpers say 1 thing all year, then suddenly say the opposite after usc stomps us for the 4th year in a row!

Sorry folks, you can't have it both ways.

FYI - Ford never had this problem. And according to the TNET experts, the ACC is better now. So we should be better prepared for big games now than back in the 80s.

Wake up folks, you are the problem, you don't hold Barker accountable by demanding real and significant improvement or better coaching. Nothing will change till you do.

Message was edited by: Lowcountry_Raconteur®

Re: We have turned away several 4 star players during the...

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 5:13 PM

They just let a 4 star take the walk.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

My apologies to all...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:35 PM

When I wrote this post, I was far more angry about Clemson people turning on their own and on each other than anything else.

No matter what, I shouldn't have made disparaging remarks about any of the South Carolina players. Despite my perceptions of their on-field behavior, I am the adult here and I shouldn't have slammed those kids. That is their parents and coaches job... not mine.

Sorry for the misplaced passion. I stand by my remarks about how Clemson should conduct their business, but I am embarrassed I named and insulted those kids. I was out of line.


I am a bitter and angry man.

Re: My apologies to all...

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:41 PM

You are a gentleman and don't apologize for being a passionate tiger.

Re: Somehow I suspect SC will be more than happy for

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:44 PM

Clemson to go the way of Furman\Wofford.

And only the most delusional homer would believe that Clowney would not have been escorted personally by Dabo and the entire crew of TigerNet to the Administration building to sign up for his Clemson classes.



Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:46 PM

I don't understand the hypocrisy. Gross generalizations about our program are baseless and it seems to me that disparaging 18-22 y/o based on either their admittedly foolish penalties/taunts/massive hits on the field or their PERCEIVED lack of intellect off it, make you look ignorant or out of touch with college athletics. I agree most of these "thugs" would be model citizens if they were at Clemson because they are here at USC. I read TN for the intellectual assessment by the classy contingent of fans whom I count my friends, the ones that dislike USC but don't debase themselves by stereotyping college kids or an entire program because they have surpassed Clemson on the field in any given year. Clemson is a quality program with quality people/players and I applaud Nuk Hopkins (I believe) for getting baptized after practice but last time I checked they weren't perfect, make mistakes like most college kids do (Watkins?), and there is no shortage of devout Christians on USC either, where there are plenty of classy individuals that your very program was very keen to welcome to the "family". Regardless if this hate fueled rant full of misinformation is due to the outcome of the football game, you are painting yourself into the very classless corner you are trying to avoid. Good luck in the bowl game and I look forward to seeing y'all here in cootville or more appropriately the state Capitol & home to THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA!

You had me at waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 1:30 AM

Go back to your own school's message board.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

"Gamecocks aren’t ready to take college football by storm just yet. They’re not even ready to compete in their own state – Clemson will still own the territory. Gamecocks fans would be smart to keep their heads buried until that time. Avoid talking trash to a much better Clemson program.” -Dustin Tackett

Re: You had me at waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:28 AM

That's funny, this seems like exactly what this message board has been doing since the game. A lot of crying and whining.

Christian and Gamecocks don't go together***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:28 AM




Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:57 PM

Just saw the apology/retraction of sorts and I appreciate the passion and again wish the Tigers well for another ~360 days

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 1:42 AM

So Clowney would have been a PQ at Clemson but walks in to USC and doesn't miss a beat. Yeah that team must be full of quality young men. Explains alot.

Great post.***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 1:46 AM

Great post, my friend***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 2:01 AM

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A long few thoughts to add (don't read if length matters)

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 4:28 AM

As you can see by my post count, my thoughts are not shared often here but I read our sites year round and have for years.

The loss on Saturday changed that for me and although I am an Alumni and season ticket holder for almost 15 years, the teams, games, and tailgate have been more about enjoyment than comment. Of course, as an Engineer, my opinion is and remains tempered.

I'm not a coach nor would I suggest that my insight has particular value, or could be contructive, so silence has been warranted. Now, I'm not so sure.

With age comes some wisdom. While I may not be a football "expert", there are a few issues that have crept beyond the boundaries where specific expertise is required to have credible and constructive insight. The play of our secondary, the Strength and Conditioning program, and the measurement and methods we are using for success all appear to be viable points of discussion no matter the experience as long as we remain reasonable and constructive.

Let me say that I am a fan of all of Clemson's coaches and players. They belong to OUR organization and we can not be half successful. Keep in mind, a lot of us will be here, and have been here, longer than some coaches. Coaches and Administrators don't have to act on the will of the fans but don't dismiss us all or suggest we aren't qualified to bring intelligent questions. While we are on that, I don't want a coach calling out our fan base all the time either. I didn't pay for the field but I #### well have earned the degree and they are hired to lead an organization that we all take pride in. Of course Dabo has done a #### of a job in my opinion so don't confuse the message.

So where should we be constructive? The secondary. Our staff should be able to answer honest questions presented. Specifically, why are we getting this play from some of our experienced players? Have we considered a coaching change even if we have confidence in the position coaches? If not, why? In business sometimes organizations must change even if a team has had success in the past. This is not seen as vengeful, it is seen as necessary. Again, not asking for the change as much as don't understand why our leadership doesn't explain the thought process with the engaged fan base. Isn't T-Net (or other) open to direct dialog with all of them and if so, do they not see communication with us as a huge opportunity? Most organizations kill for advertisement time and how excited would GE for example be to get facetime and openly engage the customer/worker/what-ever?

The S&C program is not much different in my opinion. Joey Batson has been a Head S&C coach for 21 of his 25 years. While commendable, it hardly should be grounds to be considered above reproach or question. Is there an opportunity to bring in a next promotion guy with new ideas? How is even asking a personal attack? Obviously Joey has been a good coach but aren't we also providing a good package for his services? Why would we find it necessary to fire him anyway as he is obviously mid to late career and #### at this point his blood must be bright orange. Are we hurting for growth opportunities and need 21 year employees in the same position?

Lastly, why are we unwilling to discuss the measuring stick of success in our program? We would all agree that 10-2 is special and appreciated. It hasn't lost all of its luster but anyone that suggests the competition may not be apples to apples is riddiculed or declared a "COOT" and dismissed. We are moving in the right direction as a program and our coaches are improving. To say otherwise damages the credibility of all statements afterwards. Dabo was young and inexperienced. He has quickly found solid footing and established himself to improve. For that I commend him. Afterall, he didn't control TDP or TB while they spent our money and allowed the program to gather some tarnish. So what is success to us? We should be expecting to beat an improving SC given our history? To not even hold even, requires some communication and not just coach speak at the post game. I think it is reasonable for our goals to be Top 15 (end of season ranking), Top 12 recruiting (skewed ratings with rivals/scout having a southern bias for most of our targets), and beating SC (at least at home so 50% or better). Those are goals but not all are expected to be reached each year. Things you do every year without effort or reach are not good goals.

For our coach to say that the SCar game (No, I won't say anything else because I'm not a 5 year old) doesn't have as much meaning as other games means we have to ignore what I would suggest is a very important comparison. Isn't a rivalry at least the minimum measurement of apples? Beating the rival down (see GA vs GA Tech) can make the game lose its ability to help gauge the program over time but, isn't our losing consistantly (>50%) telling us immediately that our program isn't improving at the same rate since we recruit similarly? Who are we using as a comparison if not SCar? Georgia? FSU? The rivalry is not the only bar and losing to a good SCar team should not signal the end of our coach but it is worthy of discussing come time for the IPTAY circuit this year.

I know this is TOO LONG but sometimes clear communication of complex issues isn't "bumpersticker" ready. Don't read it or even dismiss it as needed. I'm behind our coaches and think we are improving but it wasn't until this year I got the strong impression they think we aren't part of the success as loyal fans that pay the bills and a few times too many, we are beginning to be dismissed as not worthy of rational response. Start coaching like Sabin and our coaches can emulate his attitude (maybe) but how did we get pushed to the point that we have been "called out" on several occassions? Don't take action on every suggestion coach, you're paid to manage, but don't forget we are the largest part of the organization either. Fan engagement is important, ask Miami or Maryland coaches how hard it is to find success without it.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 6:00 AM

I ask you this, if DJ is such a thug how many times has he had a run in with the law as opposed to Watkins?

Hate to break it to you but there are plenty of classless guys playing for or who have played for Clemson. Deandre McDaniel comes to mind. Both teams have players that make dumb choices, neither team has the market cornered.

How in the world did this thread get 50 points? The only way

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 6:34 AM

we can become winners is to become thugs? NOT! The 1981 team were thugs? NOT! I guess everyone just saw the part where we don't want to become SCU--correct on that part. But the rest just makes no sense

How is Carolina a classless operation? You're making

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 6:39 AM

a straw man argument.

Well put, and thank you***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 7:30 AM

2020 student level member

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 7:38 AM

Dumbest post in a while...call ken hatfield

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 7:41 AM

You are in complete sour grapes mode. Hampton has had some trouble off the field but seems to have matured somewhat, at least enough to stay out of trouble. Those other guys are all good guys. They have done nothing to make you think they are thugs but play with alot of intensity and beat your team. If they played for Clemson you wold love them. You're being a sore loser.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:23 AM

Well, we're getting the kind of players you want, the coach is doing things the right way, we don't have thugs on our team. Why ya so pi$$ed off?


Re: Christian and Gamecocks don't go together***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:41 AM

I think it's hilarious that I called a man out for an unfair character assassination, for which he apologized and that I acknowledged. I said nothing insulting about Clemson and even complemented the program and people. However, the select few have chosen to call me a troublemaker, accuse me of crying (despite the incessant whining of a significant number of fans about those ruffians from Columbia), and further disparage college kids. Our program does have class (not across the board but mostly, like MOST schools---even yours) and the players I have interacted with are more like Marcus Lattimore & Dylan Thompson who lead weekly Bible studies. There are great young men (and lesser men) at every school and if you want to delude yourself to think otherwise, feel free.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:44 AM

Amen brother!!!!

2020 student level member

This is a load of krap.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:48 AM

As if you have to slowly build to be a winner. We should expect less. Whatever.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 9:02 AM

Outstanding post!

I too have given tons to IPTAY and Clemson and I agree...

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 9:44 AM

... those of us who have been around long enough to remember those "glory days" also remember that it was a very tainted and shameful reign. I find myself MUCH more proud of our program today than I was back then. This just feels better. Cleaner. Classier. Honorable. 10-2 in a very weak league, with losses to two very talented teams. And still, prouder than when we went 11-0 by cheating. Anyone who doesn't understand that is either too young to fully remember those days or simply wants to win at ANY cost. Either way, they should read and re-read your post and gain some healthy perspective. THE BEST POST EVER on this board. Ever. Thanks for keeping it real. God bless. (btw, I sit on the 50 in section F ;) Go Tigers!

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..:: ru4god2 ::..

Physical Play is Not Bad

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 9:45 AM

Nice post and I agree with most of what you are saying about Dabo but expecting our players to be physical is the ONLY way to be relevant nationally. We don't have to lower standards to expect players to hit and play with pride and an attitude of toughness. If he doesn't expect that we can recruit #1 classes from now on and we wont be relevant, period (i.e. Notre Dame for past 10 years). You are not a thug when a USC player hits your RB and then flexes over him and you knock his #### on the ground, or better yet isolate him on the next play and let him know what tough is. Clowney is calling out our team on lack of toughness, what will we do???

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:31 AM

hhaha, anything to justify the ### beatings

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:32 AM

tigertide I agree with your last line. "I am a bitter and angry man". Based on your post you sure are.

I get it - you are proud to be a loser.***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:34 AM

And I guess YOU'RE proud to be a cheater... grow up.***

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 1:42 PM

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 10:44 AM

Scream, yell, call me an idiot, etc.... but I dont understand this whole classy football thing, maybe it's my age but football would be pretty boring if it had'nt been for teams like Miami and those "thugs." What was the quote, "if you dont like our endzone dances, then dont let us score?"(oh yea, everyone hated them because they won) Is it not perfectly acceptable to try and "kill" the other team for 4qts, talk junk in rivalry games, hype up your team ect...? Maybe everyone should go back to leather helmets, wool jerseys, and coaching salaries around 5k a year -- I feel it would create a more aristocratic atmosphere full of sportsmanship and boring #### football, we'll just let basketball have all the thugs.

Dead On! Best post I've read in years.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 11:37 AM

Go Tigers!


Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 11:41 AM

I too do not post regularly any longer (tho have been on this board since nearly its inception), but did want to say that I like your common sense approach here.
Most of the people will come around -- this loss still burns for ALL of us -- in due time. 10 win seasons, conference championships (regardless of the conference), continual finishes in the top 25, don't come around to many other schools -- even those with "experienced" head coaches. So as that trend continues -- and we will once again starting beating our feathered friends (history demonstrates that)-- all will be well. After all, we are all part of Clemson University!

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Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 11:49 AM

Spot on. Last time this happened I was in 4th Grade -57 years ago! I hate losing to the coots. But it happens. The sun doesn't shine on the same dog's ### all the time. We will be back. We are doing it right. We have class not thuggery. Think SOS would have honored Jake's scolly? No way in ####.
10-2 and the sky is falling? get a grip people...

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 2:08 PM

Again someone who understands where we are and where we are headed indeed...well said for sure and we need more to pay attention no doubt and do the homework as you have and learn versus comments with no basis at all.

Now this is a hoot!

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 2:24 PM

If that's the type of nonsense you need to tell yourself to make you feel better, then preach on brother! I'm going to bookmark this for a good chuckle now and then.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 2:51 PM

Smart man!!!!!!

You want everyone happy? Stop making excuses, stop

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:00 PM

supporting mediocrity, demand excellence measured by the national stage, not a pathetic ACC. Demand, like fans did in the early 90s, for real change. Until we dump this idiotic Dabo experiment and hire a real coach nothing is going to change. Idiot pumpers on TNET wont give two sh!ts about millionaire Dabo, who won the coaching lottery rather than earn or deserve it, when we are beating FSU, USC, winning the ACC, and going to BCS bowls.

Mediocrity? LOL.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:30 PM

Mediocrity (n) ? a quality, ability, or achievement that is average or below average.

Accomplishing things that haven't been accomplished in several decades, while still building and finishing in the top 20% of college football, that's not remotely mediocre.

By the way, is it "Tom" or is it "Ned"? You can't seem to make up your mind.

How about Barker and TDP gettin' some of that?

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 4:25 PM

I get the point of your post and if it were a viable option, maybe I'd throw some duckets in the bus ticket hat. But like daddy said, "Son, you can't unscrew a pregnant woman".

It's hardly Dabo's fault that TDP foolishly threw our money at a mediocore TB just before we had to move that "good guy" that didn't mind taking us for a million dollar hosing. Kicking the kid that does "clean up on isle 6" may feel good but how is it realistic not to see Dabo is our coach at least another season if not more and again with daddy, "If you have to have to suck lemons, take a spoon of sugar with ya".

Dabo did get rid of Spence, he got rid of Napier, hired Morris, hired then fired Steele after Vic K left, and then hired BV. Gracefully got B. Scott out of the mix without causing a long term recruiting problem and has brought in a conciderable amount of recruits that we may or may not have gotten without him. We have a nutrition / training table, a new practice facility was added while under his term even if he is not responsible directly, he has set a unique precedent in college footbal by providing his salary as incentive and pay as an attempt to establish staff, we have a good on paper record (against a weak conference), a few times over the last year we have had tackling in practice, and our name is at least a little brighter than he started all in 4 years with this one still a little left.

Now we could use Batson and Cheese moved along with others I'm sure, our recruiting on the lines sucks so far, Dabo still needs to stop some of the antics like blasting fans on TV and surely the most important, he needs to WIN THE BIG GAMES!

I'm not his biggest fan and I'm also not willing to entertain that he would be removed for any of his performance so far. It might be interesting to see if even he would agree that if Sabin came calling we make that change so fast someone might get hurt. I know any reasonable fan can come up with a more qualified list but in reality this lemon was a choice made when TDP had just enough power and of course Dabo is doing just enough to keep the job.

He will be here next year barring a castrophy so we'd better find our spoons. Dabo doesn't make the conference decisions, he doesn't schedule the teams, and he is competing for recruits. What more did you want from what was basically a BS long shot by TDP after he and Barker messed the bed? There would have been plenty of candidates if we'd had the cash but no way they take action unless or until SCar gets 5th (God that hurt to even type). If we can't change that, how about we get some movement on Batson and Harbison?

Dabo is our problem, just as TB was. Anyone not seeing that

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 6:17 PM

is deluding themselves. And yes, he got rid of Napier and Steele, but first he promoted them and only fired them to save his own job. Venables is no better than Steele. Morris still hasn't learned how to beat solid defenses at this level and will be gone soon leaving Dabo another important hire when he hasn't shown yet he can hire well.

Your posts ALWAYS show that you are deluding yourself. Sad

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:07 PM

to see someone so obsessed with someone else's success. Jealousy is always a downer. Need to let it go!!


Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:26 PM

First, loosing by ten when you loose the turnover battle is not exactly getting stomped. They won the game, but they are really not that much better. We can play with anybody. Second, give USC some credit. They are a much better team than they used to be. We had better be getting better, if we are ever going to beat them again.

I wish this was stickied at the top of the board...

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:35 PM


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Then it is time to start some new traditions....

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 3:35 PM

Wake Forest values academics over athletics.

They wait for the scoreboard to show they've been ripped a new orifice, then they jingle their car keys and chant:

That's all right,
That's ok.
You're going to work for us someday.

It's a loser's cheer, but one that Clemson students should become accustomed to in due time.

Wake Forest has as many ACC Football Championships in the last 20 years as Clemson, so don't make the mistake of thinking it's a stretch.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 7:49 PM

I read it all. About as dumb as it gets. What are you jealous of.. no one shoots down... always up.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:06 PM

Amen!! Love this post. I am an IPTAY member as well. 5 tix each year but just on the 10!!

2020 white level member

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 27, 2012 8:55 PM

I believe it was our fans that threw beer bottles on the field after a bad call.

Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 9:01 AM


I challenge you

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 11:05 AM

to give me some links of folks laughing at us. I can give you dozens laughing at Clemson and the ACC. Have you completely forgotten Joe Craig, Deandre McDaniels and Jamie Cumbie. Our player may play tough, mean, or thugish or whatever name you want to call it but they don't go around beating girls and individuals that they outweigh by 100 lbs.

Criminal sexual assault...

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 1:53 PM

thats like littering right?


Re: You can't have it both ways... and I don't want to be them.

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 11:42 AM

Best post on here - thank you and all in with everything you posted!! Sick of all these people whining and the negative comments about our coaches and players - they don't deserve it!! Tigers have had great season and Dabo is building an outstanding program - couldn't find a finer man to be Tigers Head man!! ALL IN with the Tigers!!

Hard to know which bs to respond to, so will just say this.

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 1:54 PM

If you think Florida "ran off Spurrier", you are more delusional than the rest of your post indicates.

Who are our thugs? Sammy says hello. We have one kid that jacks his jaw too much. You have a strength coach that taunted our player last year while we were winning by 21. You have a coach that ran his mouth about how sorry our program was in a premeditated ran about a tweet he knew didn't come from our coach? Who's the joke?

You have a coach arrested for urinating on a public street

Posted: Nov 28, 2012 1:58 PM

look dude...you beat us fair and square in football but to even TRY to suggest that your disciplinary problems have historically been better than ours you are CRAZY.

Butt-hurt post of the year.."yeah, but we a nicer!"!!

Posted: Nov 29, 2012 8:13 AM

Such a load of crap excuse for losing. Regarding the thug crap. This comes off so much like, well you beat us but you didn't have to be mean while you did it!!! I, as a rational observer can say. DJ Swearinger is an in your face over the top player,and it is probably one of those things that you hate unless he is yours, kinda like Spurrier was when he was at Florida. But you are delusional and not very objective if you act like some of your players do not occasionally mug over a guy the hit or flex or whatever it may be. I have seen it plenty of time and if you watch college football it is on EVERY team and happens every game. ####, in our game your guys flexed and posed and Boyd did his superman flex and his Heisman pose after he scored. So you just comes off as a world class whiner, but hey, 4 in row will do that. Clemson has its fair shair of thugs, on and off the field, need any of us forget girl beaters Joe Craig, Courtney Vincent, Xavier Littleberry, Deandre McDanial, Philip Meling?

You guys recruited every one of those players, and they would have been on the field for Clem if they committed to you. USC and Clem are chasing the same pool of players. I would say now we are probably more careful and selective than you because of the SEC rule that limits LOI's. ACC does not have that, so a guy at USC that signs and does not qualify cost them a spot on the roster.

So sick of hearing about your elevated standards for athletes, any difference you guys "may" have had has been addressed by Dabo and that is just BS now. You guys are after the same players as everyone else and not running around recruiting some different pool of players. Sorry your not Duke. Wish you were, love to see you win 5 games a year. Oh yeah, forgot, they almost represented their side of the bracket in the ACC championship game this year. Yeah, ACC!!!

Here is a bit more on the "special exeptions" issue, took me about 1 minute to google...

"South Carolina has recently changed their student-athlete admissions process. USC coaches were having difficulty getting students admitted at times, yet those same students were reportedly able to be admitted to Clemson, Georgia, and other schools. When asked to compare the admissions process at USC and Clemson, Sheley said, “I really can’t because I have not compared the two in detail. From what I can see in the press, they may have been able to get kids in that we can’t get in, even though their regular admissions standards appear to be higher than ours. But again, that’s at the individual institution's discretion how they go about making exceptions. That’s the same for every institution; I guarantee that every school does bring in exceptions.”

This article took me about 1 minute to find. There are plenty more, you guys need to man up and get the sand out of your panties.

Go read what Chuck Reedy said, here is your real issue. Here to make it easy I will post it...

Goose Creek head coach Chuck Reedy spent 1978-1989 as an assistant and (later) offensive coordinator at Clemson. He then spent three seasons as Baylor's offensive coordinator and four as the school's head coach before spending a year at South Carolina as offensive coordinator. He has led a turnaround of the Goose Creek program since arriving in 2002, leading the Gators to a state championship last season.

Reedy believes that USC has used a simple formula in the recent success over its rival.

"I think there's a very obvious why South Carolina has been dominant the last four years. Obviously, coaching, recruiting, that's a big part of it. That goes without saying. What is really evident, and I've had coaches on both sides make this point to me, is the fact that Carolina plays in the SEC which is not only the best conference in the country but far and away the most physical football is played in the SEC than anywhere in the country."

In other words, South Carolina's difficult schedule throughout the season, which in 2012 featured two road games against top-ten ranked opponents (LSU and Florida) with top 11 scoring defenses, a home game against SEC East champion Georgia and more, helps them when it comes to the November showdown according to Reedy.

"The ACC is only not a very strong conference, there are not many very good teams at all, but it is very much finesse. There are not many physical football teams. So, what has happened is when Clemson plays Carolina, Carolina is so much more physical than Clemson. Clemson has had a hard time dealing with that, because they haven't had to deal with it throughout the season."

Reedy also addressed the recruiting efforts of both programs and how USC's defensive line recruitment has helped tip the rivalry edge in its favor recently.

"Obviously both of them are trying to recruit good players at all the positions. Clemson has done a great job with wide receiver in particular. (Tajh) Boyd is a very good player when things are clear for him and not getting a lot of pressure. The last few years he's gotten pressure. The South Carolina defensive front is so much more talented and physical than the Clemson offensive line. That's the biggest mismatch on the field. The game the other night, and going back to last year, he's not as confident, having to pull the ball down, then (Andre) Ellington is not getting the run lanes. I think it's real evident. I do think that they need to look at maybe trying to play some teams that are more physical. They had Auburn this year and of course beat them in a close ballgame. As it turned out, Auburn was a very poor football team. They open with Georgia (2013 season) which will be a good test for them."

Good stuff and this is your issue, not some fable about how you are the Harvard of the south and only recruit high character academic kids. BS. Give me one for the thumb next year!!!

Great post!!

Posted: Nov 29, 2012 8:51 AM

I agree totally! My freshman year at Clemson was the start of the post-Ford era with Ken Hatfield as head coach. Before Hatfield ever coached his first game in Clemson, people were screaming that he needed to be fired. Hatfield was in a no-win situation, anyone that followed Ford would be destined to be run out of Tigertown. Ford was a great coach in his era. The style of football and the way college football programs handled themselves has evolved. Now we, as fans, need to evolve. Dabo has worked hard to get Clemson back to a higher level of play. He has worked even harder to install a high level of respect for the team and the university.

We will not win every game. No one ever will. There will be losses. As much as I hate to lose to the Gamecocks, I would hate to step backwards from what Dabo has done. We are competitive on the field in most every game. More importantly, we are not on the top of the NCAA's investigating list. At the beginning of the year I bet most everyone would be ecstatic with a 10-2 season. Unfortunately, our 2 losses included losing to our most hated rival and to the most likely ACC Champions. We need to keep going forward! Losing to South Carolina is always a bitter pill to swallow!! We will beat them in the future, hopefully the very near future!! Anyone remember our streak of wins against Virginia. It came to an end and people thought the sky was falling then too. Also, we do currently have a winless streak in Chapel Hill in basketball. I firmly believe that Coach Brownell will break that streak in the very near future!!

We have a couple of great coaches leading our programs. Both have us competitive and clean of any wrong-doing that seems to be becoming the norm in college sports. I have been and always will be a Tiger!! I get disappointed at times, but I know there is a better day coming.

Go Tigers!!

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