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CU Medallion [67819]
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Are any of you architects or construction engineers?
Nov 26, 2019, 8:48 AM
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What is with they collapses of construction projects in the news recently. The bridge at the Fla school, Hard Rock in New Orleans, and yesterday part of a building in Cincy. Whats up with all these. I know they are dangerous jobs and you can occassionaly have a fatality but stuff falling before complete? Seems to be more of that. Just curious why
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Heisman Winner [105551]
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Bridge in Florida was an error in load calc without proper
Nov 26, 2019, 9:03 AM
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QA/QC
I'm not sure of the others, but for the most part, when Greenr engineers something, he makes sure it is something that cannot fall. It can be POORLY designed, but it aint Ghana fall.
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All-In [40656]
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I heard about that ditch
Nov 26, 2019, 9:09 AM
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Don't you dare try to cover up your errors.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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I imagine engineers hate architects and construction
Nov 26, 2019, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Bridge in Florida was an error in load calc without proper ] |
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companies hate them both. I mean you get an architect to design a fancy looking building then engineers have to figure out how to make it stay up and the construction workers then have to try and build it. Without knowing squat about anything, I can see how modern buildings could be a major pita to build.
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Heisman Winner [105551]
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Big projects are design-build which allows more
Nov 26, 2019, 9:30 AM
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collaboration and MUCH MORE P.I.T.A.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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ALL OF THE ^^THISSSS^^ES I HAVE TO GIVE***
Nov 26, 2019, 9:33 AM
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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i was at the hoover ### last week and commented to my wife
Nov 26, 2019, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to Big projects are design-build which allows more ] |
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that there is no way in Hades that it would be built today. If it was, it would take 50 years and cost $400 billion.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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It could be built today. Actually bigger and better
Nov 26, 2019, 10:23 AM
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But you'd have to cut a lot of red tape.
Rebuilt this in less than 3 months.
We haven't built a nuclear reactor in decades, well maybe one or so. You could build one for less than $11 billion, that's for sure. We haven't built any new oil refineries in decades. Only way we get by is to have existing ones expand because they're grandfathered in. We don't put astronauts in space anymore. About the only success story other than Silicon Valley might be with oil and fracking. I'm waiting for fracking to be hit with red tape.
We have so much potential that's wasted in the US these days.
Message was edited by: Tiggity®
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All-In [40656]
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This is the exact reason state governments love design build
Nov 26, 2019, 11:18 AM
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They are making the contractors fight it out for the lowest bid and quickest design schedule while still maintaining state required standards.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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SC always goes with the lowest bidder, and worst design
Nov 26, 2019, 11:31 AM
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I mean cheapest design. At least on roads. That's why so many go broke. And with roads you have state standards, industry standards, federal standards, environmental standards, etc.
There's a half-built 10+ mile section of I-20 that sat for a year because a contractor went broke, and another is having to come in and finish it. 2nd time this has happened around Columbia. My BIL is getting ready to start the fourth interstate widening around Columbia. Told him not to go broke like 2 of the last three. He laughs.
Then you have 5 projects to fix malfunction junction going to 5 different companies. They have a TEN YEAR staggered construction plan for that. TEN freaking years. Odds are 3 out of the 5 who won those bids will go belly up too, and that 10 year plan will become 15 and maybe 20. No one wanted to bid on the project as a single project. That should tell you something.
All this could be done in months with proper motivation and reduction in red tape.
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Heisman Winner [105551]
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This isn't all 100% true, but not far off***
Nov 26, 2019, 11:38 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Heisman Winner [105551]
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This is why you refer to concrete's 28 day strenf, not
Nov 26, 2019, 9:37 AM
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3 day strenf. It aint skrong enough at 3 days. Duh.
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Oculus Spirit [97716]
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Cheep budgets, cheap labor, cheap work.
Nov 26, 2019, 9:18 AM
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Just a hunch, but...
My experience is mainly in truss collapses during construction. I'm no engineer, but I know the problem. Most truss collapses happen in large residential or commercial buildings. And it's easy to prevent if done properly. In every single case the workers spoke little to no English, had little experience laying a large number of trusses, etc.
The almost universal story is that the workers lay and anchor trusses, then attach horizontal bracing. Then go to the next truss. Anchor it, attach more HORIZONTAL bracing. Then repeat. Once you get 5 to 10 trusses up in this manner, you're asking for disaster. The rule is no more than three to four trusses, then add DIAGONAL bracing. Any more than 4 trusses with ONLY horizontal bracing and you're asking for disaster. One jobsite had 22 up, with no diagonal bracing. Trusses folded like dominoes, then rotated downward. That puts outward pressure on the exterior walls, which then fail, and all the trusses fall to the ground killing whoever is under them. I've literally seen this SAME THING happen over and over and over again.
I can only imagine the problems that happen on larger commercial buildings.
And OSHA does nothing to prevent stuff like this from happening. The subs are illegal, with illegal workers, and the sub always folds and disappears by the time OSHA investigates and gets around to issuing fines. Usually the GC gets stuck with the fines, even though the GC hired Pedro and Company to do the framing and had nothing to do with the accident.
Electricians are even more worrying. Plumbers too. The quality of construction in the US is in decline, even though it's increasing in quantity. Just across the board really. Two of the three contractors hired by DOT to add lanes coming into and out of Columbia have gone broke. From stupid stuff. One didn't crown the asphalt correctly for drainage per regulations. Had to repave the whole project over to fix it, caused them to go bankrupt. Several houses in my neighborhood have had tens of thousands of dollars in damage due to crappy plumbing. I got lucky. Still, main water line to my house is half as thick as code, and is buried only 6 inches deep, also against code. I've had three leaks in it. My water is ICE cold in winter.
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All-TigerNet [11630]
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You can have your design done cheap, quick, or correct
Nov 26, 2019, 10:26 AM
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Pick two.
You can't get all three. That's the problem today.
Design professionals (architects, engineers) are stretched thin.
Contractors have a labor shortage.
Owners have unrealistic expectations that no one is reigning in.
This is when you get problems.
Great example was the meeting I was at yesterday. Budget is $4.7 million. First cost estimate is $7.1 million. We spent all day and only reduced scope $780,000. No one is willing to tell the owner they can't afford what they want. So instead we're marching on with design. Which will be over budget at the next pricing exercise. I'm sure the GC will get close to budget on bid day. They'll cut every corner known to man, and nickel and dime the owner for every change.
The owner will spent probably $5-5.5 Million on a crappy building that doesn't meet their expectations. Then they'll drag our names through the mud forever.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I went through this when I built a data center about
Nov 26, 2019, 10:30 AM
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12 years ago. We started with an estimate of 10K ft^2 cooled for $12-$14 million. CIO and CFO went crazy, said we could do it cheaper, we'll never do it or that cost etc.
3 years later we started the project and it ended up being almost $17 million for 8K ft^2.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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My theory is this will continue to become a bigger and
Nov 26, 2019, 12:22 PM
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bigger problem as the population continues to get dumber. It will be common place to see people in positions they're completely unqualified for, but you can't do anything because they're 1/45th Native American or something. Planes will fall out of the sky, buildings collapse, our infrastructure will continue to crumple until we truly achieve the idiocracy we seem to hell bent on creating.
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Replies: 17
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