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What does this mean, exactly?
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What does this mean, exactly?


Nov 4, 2020, 2:08 PM

Isn't this basically communism? "equitable outcomes"?

https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1322963321994289154?s=20

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Re: What does this mean, exactly?


Nov 4, 2020, 2:14 PM

It means white people are bad. Duh

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I guess you could infer support for communist fundamentals,


Nov 4, 2020, 2:23 PM

but that would be a pretty extreme and unlikely position for Harris to take. Having a minimum wage is another, less extreme example of lifting the starting point to try and achieve more equitable outcomes.

Speaking of, did you notice that the $15/hr minimum wage won in Florida with more support than DJT? Kind of goes to show that this race has little to do with policy, or a fundamental opposition to socialism---at least in Florida.

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Re: What does this mean, exactly?


Nov 4, 2020, 2:24 PM

"It's about giving people the resources and the support they need, so that everyone can be on equal footing and then compete on equal footing".

Assuming you believe that people are capable of reaching the same achievements regardless of their race or other factors, giving disadvantaged groups the same ability to achieve these goals should result in more equitable outcomes. That being said, I'm not sure why you put the phrase equitable outcomes in quotation marks as it was never said in the video.

So no, not communism, where the government would actually control the outcomes, just a system that lifts people in disadvantaged groups to a place where they have a fair chance to compete with the more privileged members of the groups in society that currently have more advantages from day 1.

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The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone


Nov 4, 2020, 2:26 PM

seems exactly what communism means, doesn't it?

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Re: The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone


Nov 4, 2020, 2:40 PM

The government will not be ensuring the same outcomes for everyone, just a fair chance for every person to compete for these outcomes.

Additionally, no. Communism is not just about the government "ensuring outcomes". It is a system in which state controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital and in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

Neither Harris's video nor your interpretation of it come close to advocating for anything near communism.

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"Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place"


Nov 4, 2020, 3:44 PM

Did we see different tweets?

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Re: "Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place"


Nov 4, 2020, 4:14 PM

Equitable treatment does mean that we should end up at the same place. The idea is that no matter a person's socioeconomic status at the start of their life, they will have the same opportunities for success as anyone else. However, it doesn't mean that the government is filling in gaps to ensure that all outcomes across all groups are equal.

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Again, did you watch the video?***


Nov 4, 2020, 4:20 PM



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Yes.


Nov 4, 2020, 6:30 PM

Equitable opportunities do not necessarily guarantee equal outcomes. Kamala's hope is that by giving people the same chance to succeed then the rates of success will be the same. Whether or not that is true remains to be seen.

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Re: The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone


Nov 4, 2020, 3:52 PM [ in reply to Re: The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone ]

Can you say specifically how the government is impeding success of blacks or pacific islanders (another, less popular, protected group)?

Would a fair chance apply to people such as Barack Obama, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Loretta Lynch, etc. etc. etc.? How did these people eek our their fair chance through the fog of systemic racism?

How many trillions have been spent on fair chances in 60 years?

You see what you do not understand is you cannot give chit to anyone and then expect them to quit taking it and do for themselves. Until self-help and individual responsibility are phrases understood by blacks who want a fair chance, it does not matter what you give them. You can give them a paid up 3500 sq ft house in the burbs and $100k in the bank - it will be gone, all of it, in less than one generation. They need, as a group, the willpower to get educated starting in elementary school.

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Re: The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone


Nov 4, 2020, 4:57 PM

In order to speak to the difficulties faced by black Americans, we first have to take a look at the history of race in America. I assume you want to talk about black Americans because despite mentioning pacific islanders the rest of your post only concerns black politicians or "blacks who want a fair chance".

The system of wealth accumulation in this country has profound effects on the relative economic positions of white people and black people in today's society and has resulted in a massive disparity of accumulated wealth between these two groups. Consider the fact that the majority of the wealth people accumulate over their lifetimes comes from two places: inheritance and home ownership.

First we had slavery for about 246 years, a system in which black people were considered property. Hopefully we can agree that this would be very unhelpful in terms of generating any economic or social success for black people in this country.

Black Americans continued to be discriminated against for the next 100 or so years through Black codes and Jim Crow laws. In addition to the blatant segregation codified by these laws, there were other significant ways in which the government impeded black success during this time.

In 1933, the federal government began to subsidize the mass construction of suburbs due to a housing shortage in the country which went along with the establishment of the Federal Housing Administration in 1934. These guaranteed government loans were only given to developers under the explicit condition that homes not be sold to black Americans and that every home in the development had to have a clause in the deed prohibiting resale to African Americans. White Americans who were given government-backed mortgages under this policy actually paid less per month to own a home than black Americans paid for rent in public housing.

Along with this, the practice of redlining black neighborhoods allowed banks to deny black people loans based on the idea that these loans were too risky. This further prevented black Americans from buying homes or starting businesses.

In 1968 the Fair Housing Act was passed, allowing black Americans to purchase homes in these white only neighborhoods. Unfortunately for them, those homes were no longer affordable to the families that could've afforded them when whites were buying into those suburbs and gaining the equity and the wealth that followed from that.

Today African-American incomes on average are about 60 percent of average white incomes. But African-American wealth is about 5 percent of white wealth. The impact of federal housing policy is undeniable in this gap.

I agree that education, starting in elementary school plays a huge role in what a person is able to accomplish later in life. It's really unfortunate that schools are funded based on property taxes, which black people pay a lot less of at least in part based on all of the reasons described above.

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Re: The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone


Nov 4, 2020, 5:08 PM

Based on this guy's posts, he isn't interested in facts. He seems to be a hate-filled person in desperate need of prayer.

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Can you explain to me how what I posted is "hate-filled"?


Nov 4, 2020, 6:19 PM

I'm not really stating any opinions, just an observation of how governmental policies have contributed to the economic and social standing of many African Americans today. The only opinion I added was in agreement with NC_Tiger_ that education is extremely valuable for upwards mobility.

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Re: Can you explain to me how what I posted is "hate-filled"?


Nov 4, 2020, 6:37 PM

My apologies, my comment wasn't directed at you, but to the person you were responding to, NC Tiger. That isn't the first time he posted that drivel.

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Re: The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone


Nov 4, 2020, 7:11 PM [ in reply to The government ensuring the same outcomes for everyone ]

Ineligible,

Under Harris' government we would try to level the playing field to start so that everyone could compete & contribute to our society fairly.

For instance, we would want to make sure that you were taught to read for comprehension, so that you could compete more fairly.

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Re: What does this mean, exactly?


Nov 4, 2020, 2:36 PM [ in reply to Re: What does this mean, exactly? ]



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You start with an incorrect assumption.


Nov 4, 2020, 6:28 PM [ in reply to Re: What does this mean, exactly? ]

All people are not capable of the same achievements....that’s pretty common knowledge amongst us realists, and we accept it.

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Re: You start with an incorrect assumption.


Nov 4, 2020, 7:36 PM

So black and/or poor people are just inherently less capable than the rest of society?

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let me quote you....


Nov 4, 2020, 9:13 PM

"regardless of their race or other factors"

Other factors? You pretty much left the door wide open for just about every differentiator imaginable.

No, stupid people aren't going to be physicists.

Fat people aren't going to be ultramarathoners.

80 year olds aren't going to get jobs delivering beer kegs.

Really ugly women aren't going to become arm candy for a large city mayor and get a major accelerative factor applied to their political career.

All of these things are just the way life happens to be.

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Re: let me quote you....


Nov 4, 2020, 9:29 PM

Fair enough. I included the "other factors" statement because I don't think that race is the only thing that should be addressed when developing policy that attempts to level the playing field. I think that being born poor creates barriers regardless of race, although race certainly is a factor.

Having clarified that, do you believe that race and socioeconomic status indicate some innate capability for success?

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Re: What does this mean, exactly?


Nov 4, 2020, 2:29 PM

They did not take over the Senate so no communism for you.

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Re: What does this mean, exactly?


Nov 4, 2020, 3:07 PM



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If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


She got her a white Sugar Daddy?***


Nov 4, 2020, 3:41 PM



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It's from Germany.***


Nov 4, 2020, 3:43 PM



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