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Topic: Why we still should go the Big 12 even with playoff
Replies: 41   Last Post: Jun 27, 2012, 1:51 PM by: armsb
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Why we still should go the Big 12 even with playoff

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Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 8:44 AM
 

What are the chances we go undefeated? Been a while since that's happened, right?

Let's say we are in the ACC and have 2 losses, which is a definite possibility in any given season. Do we make it in the top 4? Doubt it, because of perception. Doesn't even really matter who the losses are to.

Let's say we are in the Big 12 and have 2 losses. Do we make it in the top 4? Maybe, but our chances are MUCH better than the 1st example.

The point is, quit basing your argument on if we go undefeated in the ACC! When is that going to happen?!! We need to say, "What's the best chance we have to get in the top 4 with 1-3 losses?" In either conference, we could go 10-2, so why not increase our chances of getting in?

It's VERY possible that there could be 4 teams with 2 or less wins from the other 4 conferences (Say, 2 SEC, 1 Big 12, 1 Pac 12). So, if we don't go undefeated, which is EXTREMELY hard to do, we will be left out in the ACC.


and by 2 or less wins


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 8:45 AM
 

I mean 2 or less losses


It's about the money

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Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 8:46 AM
 

and there will be more of it - lots more - in the B12


that too***


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 8:47 AM
 




Re: Why we still should go the Big 12 even with playoff

[2]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 8:47 AM
 

Awesome post!...1000% agree on everything


Re: Why we still should go the Big 12 even with playoff

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 8:53 AM
 

Well said...point

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A 2 or 3 loss team from the ACC won't get into the top 4 but

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:05 AM
 

a 2 or 3 loss team from the SEC or Big 12 would?

That is your argument for joining the Big 12?

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how is that not a good argument?

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:06 AM
 

do you not want to be in the top 4?


3 losses? Seriously? Even 2 losess has happened only 2


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:19 AM
 

times in the history of college football - 2007 and 1960.

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Re: A 2 or 3 loss team from the ACC won't get into the top 4 but

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:08 AM
 

yeah and it's a dang good one.....a 2 loss SEC or big 12 team is going to get a heck of a lot more consideration than a 2 loss ACC team...take off the orange colored glasses for a second....

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Well, that and the money.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:42 AM
 

There's is NO WAY we will make as much in the ACC as we would in the Big 12.

And it is a fact that we can compete at a higher level, consistently over time, with more money.

Anyone who thinks differently is wrong.


I agree with you principle...


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:07 AM
 

But if in any given season we lose 2 in the ACC, we're probably losing 4 in the Big 12.

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Re: I agree with you principle...

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:09 AM
 

and any season we lose 2 in the ACC we go undefeated in CUSA, let's move there....

better competition breeds more success....

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that's about the only thing i can see someone having


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:11 AM
 

against my argument, and you may be right... but what if we go to the big 12 and get much better because we're playing better teams? This wouldn't happen instantly, but after a few years.

I think we would have a different mentality, a stronger mentality. Which would, incedentally, give us a better chance against the #1 team in the nation in the semifinals or championship as well.


Re: that's about the only thing i can see someone having

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:12 AM
 

as well as more money for recruiting budget and coaches....it's ridciculous that our HC has to take a pay cut to get good assistants....that should never have to happen at a major football school...

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Richt did the same thing at UGA

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:15 AM
 

but I guess that isn't major college football?

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Richt did that in a battle with the AD over budget

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:23 AM
 

GA doesn't have $ issues.

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Neither do we.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:26 AM
 

We have the highest paid assistants in the nation. We are finishing up a huge stadium addition, and we are building a $10M indoor practice facility.

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look at the link I provided below

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:29 AM
 

so for 2009-2010 GA produced a profit of over $50M for football....SC produced a profit of over $35M....we produced a profit of $14.6M

Do you see a problem there? I'm only in sales and dealing with numbers every minute of a day but...

>$35M and >$20M to me are a problem

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Moving to the Big XII is going to give us 10M to 15M more?


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:33 AM
 

Nope. So this is a poor argument. Also what should be obvious when looking at those numbers is the difference is not TV money from the conference.

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I don't know and neither do you but I'm certain those making


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:36 AM
 

decisions are basing it on hard numbers...your second point regarding profit not including TV numbers...

can you imagine what the difference is with SEC tv money...our delta just grew to $50M with GA and over $30M with SC. We may not have $ problems today but I'm certain the CUAD could find a way to use an additional $30M or even $15M....I don't think they would turn it down.

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Here's a question for you.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:40 AM
 

How much did the Big XII's contract decrease by losing TAMU, Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri?



The answer is that conference is still living off of buyouts, half payouts for the new members, and a media contract that was written for a 12 team conference.

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Re: Here's a question for you.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:44 AM
 

word is the projected big 12 conference contract is the same or more than the ACC with 2 less teams...

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You mean the per team payout.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:47 AM
 

The Big XII isn't getting $3.6B.

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Re: You mean the per team payout.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 1:36 PM
 

yes, the per team payout....more than or same as ACC....200mil per year to 250 mil per year. 10 teams to 14 teams.....getting to 14, what do you think the big12 would pull then? a heck of a lot more than 3.6 over the lifetime of the contract I can tell you that. especially if Clemson and FSU are involved....

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Re: Neither do we.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:30 AM
 

And our HC had to take a pay cut for it!! You're making my point....

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Re: Richt did the same thing at UGA


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:26 AM
 

lol Richt makes 3 million...UGA pays their coaches 1 million more than Clemson....silly argument.....

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in fact for 2009-2010 GA produced the second most

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:26 AM
 

revenue of any school in the country

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/06/20/which-football-and-basketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/

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Re: Why we still should go the Big 12 even with playoff


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:16 AM
 

I still say it would not make since to join the Big 12. There would never be a full statium. Nobody would ever travel from 2/3's across the nation to see a team play.

The whole thing would all be for television dollars. It sure wouldn't be for seat revenue.


how many visiting fans would we be missing out on?

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:18 AM
 

we would get more clemson fans than we're getting now b/c people would be excited to see texas, ok, tt, okstate, etc... maybe we could actually start filling up the corners again...


Texas and Oklahoma are big draws.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:20 AM
 

Baylor, Texas Tech, Kansas, K-State, Iowa St., etc. are not.

Those teams have had some good years, but they sure haven't been consistent winners.

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GT and FSU are big draws every other yr...we don't

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:21 AM
 

get VT but maybe twice a decade in the ACC in DV...who else in the ACC draws fans?

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Re: GT and FSU are big draws every other yr...we don't


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:30 AM
 

I'll take NCSU, Maryland, Wake over those teams any day. You guys keep putting these Big XII teams up on a pedestal, but they are no better than what we already have.

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NCSU and Maryland draw fans into the stadium????***


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:31 AM
 



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Re: GT and FSU are big draws every other yr...we don't

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:31 AM
 

"I'll take NCSU, Maryland, Wake over those teams any day."

You're more hopeless than I thought....

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Wake might draw the families of the players and the

[2]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:32 AM
 

20 alumni in SC.

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Perceptions change. The ACC has the ability to be

[2]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:17 AM
 

considered a top tier conference. We just need more out of conference and bowl wins. I would not make such a rash decision like leaving our conference because of current perceptions. Our conference has some of the top programs in the country and is full of tradition. It is conceivable that Clemson, VT, and FSU find themselves in the top ten in the coming seasons, consistently. Miami will be back too, eventually.

Perceptions always change over time.


Agree!! As soon as the ACC starts to win on the big stages


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:27 AM
 

on a regular basis, the perception will change, the playoff system will recognize the schedules with more leverage, and the TV contracts will increase resulting in more money.

Only sucky thing is that we will still have the crappy regular season games against the weaker teams like Duke.


Re: Agree!! As soon as the ACC starts to win on the big stages

[2]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:33 AM
 

Yeah let's pin our hopes on NCState, Mary, UNC, UVA, Pitt, Syr, and BC becoming power houses.....that'll work...

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I am unclear as to this logic

[1]
Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:37 AM
 

If Clemson cannot manage to be better than a 2-loss team in the weak, puny, mewling ACC that everyone presents it as, why should they deserve a seat in the title hunt? What makes you think that a team that cannot manage to be better than a 2-loss team in the ACC manage to do any better in a conference purported to be not so weak as the pathetic ACC?

In other words, if the ACC is so weak, then a good team, a team you think should be in the national title hunt, should have no problem running the table there--two losses in the basketball conference? Please.

If you want to debate whether an undefeated or even 1-loss ACC team gets leapfrogged by a 2-loss Big12 team, maybe there's something to discuss, but moaning about a two-loss team from the oh-so-weak ACC not being in the playoff is silly--why not a 2-loss MAC team, say the Ohio Bobcats?

Perception varies with the tides. If the ACC starts winning its OOC games (Clemson returns to pummeling SCar, FSU beats UF, GaTech beats Georgia, the ACC stops going 2-5 in bowl games every year, etc.) perceptions will change.

Now, the ACC may not have the $$ necessary (supposedly) to turn the tide, but that's a different argument.

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Look folks bottom line.


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 9:44 AM
 

For the previous 15 or so years only two teams have had a chance to play for the national championship. Going forward 4 teams will now have that chance. That is not bad for the ACC nor is it bad for Clemson.

Also, a move to the Big XII would not make sense as it would not bring significant money (rumored 20M contract, 20M ACC buyout, increased travel costs), it would alienate our fanbase (the vast majority of our fans live in ACC states), and would not be an attractive move to recruits (see comments from Dabo and Brownell).

If you're talking about the SEC (which isn't going to happen), then its a different story, but the Big XII makes no sense for Clemson.

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Re: Why we still should go the Big 12 even with playoff


Posted: Jun 27, 2012, 1:51 PM
 

anybody that loses 2 will be out 9 out 10 times


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