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Topic: Why are our special teams so bad?
Replies: 43   Last Post: Oct 8, 2018 1:14 PM by: cufan®
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Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:46 PM
 

Clemson ESPN efficiency rank: Offense – 33. Defense – 3. Special teams – 101.

For years now I have watched our special teams not live up to the level of the rest of the program. Really? we are 101??? I blame the first NC loss to Alabama on S.T. I mean an onside kick that everyone on earth could see coming, and a return for a TD....come on. Since then, how many games have we lost or eeeked out because of missed "easy" field goals, muffed fair catches, 26 yrd punts, etc. I know we had a coaching change after that first NC game and the punt and K.O. coverages have gotten dramatically better, but little else. With a solid kicking game, ATM is not as close as it should have been, Syracuse doesn't get a 6 yd. drive for a TD, NC state would never have a chance, etc. The one positive note is Potter, he is killing it. I'm sure it is obvious to the coaches, but I just see very little change the past few years except for K.O./punt coverage and Potter. The most exciting part though, is that the S.T. is the only thing I am worried about today. I have a feeling the offense is going to get going with renewed Chemistry, and that will take some of the pressure off of the defense and keep them fresh. Go Tigers!

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That's some serious revisionist history

[4]
Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:48 PM
 

"an onside kick that everyone on earth could see coming"

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Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a

[1]
Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:51 PM
 

perfect onside kick to seal the win over bama the following year.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:55 PM
 

In the moment i did not care about anything but the feeling of being a national championship fan, but i've laughed many times at how stupid it was to try that onside kick. Our kick coverage that year was excellent lol All it did was give Bama's frontline a chance to jump on the ball and throw a hailmary for the win which in 2016 we saw soooo many hailmarys that year. BYU had 2 and tenn/uga off the top of my head. Just squib it


Not my take at all.


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:00 PM
 

Very very very little chance that they recover with no time coming off the clock.

Great play call and execution.

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Re: Not my take at all.


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:36 PM
 

Wrong, it gives them an even better chance of recovering w/o a second coming off b/c (if they were aware which they weren't thankfully) they would just fall on it.
If we squib the kick then they either do the same thing and have a further hailmary attempt or they pick it up and the second runs off. Oh well it worked out great but this year in the same situation i hope he kicks it instead lol


I hear ya, I just disagree.


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:41 PM
 

Kicking it deep, even a squib, gives them a chance for one of those crazy multiple-lateral return chances. Low chance of success, but, IMO, greater than...

Us onside squibbing it (where it cannot go out of bounds) and with the kicker there to recover/hinder any chance of their clean recovery (with no time running off the clock). And even if that occurs they have to complete a hail Mary. I think the odds of both of those plays working out for them (especially when they weren't lined up for/expecting the onside) is lower than giving them the chance at the long return.

But, thats just my take on it.

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Re: Not my take at all.


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:38 PM
 

My point is that the onside kick was the only chance Bama had of getting good field position for a hailmary that could reach the endzone and Dabo gave them an opportunity to make a play but it was just our night and thankfully the bama frontline had no idea what they were doing lol Maybe Dabo noticed this throughout the game and that's why he called it which makes more sense


Re: Not my take at all.


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 5:04 PM
 

Um, Clemson recovered with no time coming off the clock so...


Re: Not my take at all.


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 5:35 PM
 

The clock only starts running when the ball is touched by the receiving team. If the ball is first touched by the kicking team then it's a dead ball and the clock doesn't start. The only way the clock doesn't start as soon as the receiving team touches the ball is if it's a fair catch, or if the ball is caught in the end zone in which case the clock doesn't start until the returner brings it out. So if a Bama player had fallen on the ball then it would have been game over.


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:24 PM
 

There was only 1 second left on the clock. How were they going to recover the kick without the 1 second running off?


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:33 PM
 

Just like we did. Fall on the ball and no time runs off if you possess it while on the ground lol It's how we recovered it w/o 1 second running off


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 3:48 PM
 

The clock doesn’t start until the non-kicking team touches the ball. Even if it had been in the air when we caught it no time would have gone off the clock because the kicking team can’t advance the ball on a recovered kick.


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 4:04 PM
 

Exactly. The rules state that the clock starts when the receiving team touches the ball. If the ball is caught in the end zone then it doesn't start until the returner brings the ball out. The clock also doesn't start on a fair catch, but that wasn't a factor with the ball kicked on the ground. It's considered a dead ball with the clock not starting if the ball is touched first by the kicking team.


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 4:30 PM
 

Dude if the kick return team fields the onside kick while his knee or any body part is on the ground then the clock does not start. It’s not hard to understand. It’s just like we recovered it but bama doing it instead. Geez people


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 5:43 PM
 

Again, it's not the same, and you need to check the rules. The clock didn't start when we recovered because we were the kicking team, and the clock only starts when the receiving team touches the ball. Any touching of the ball by Bama in that situation would have resulted in the 1 second coming off the clock.

For reference, go back and look at the onside kick A&M tried against us this year. Before the kick there were 46 seconds on the clock. After the kick there were 45 seconds left.


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 4:34 PM
 

Yes but that doesn’t change the fact that if they kick return team possesses the ball while they’re on the ground in the clock does not start. They don’t have to automatically run a second off just cause the return team touches the ball unless he’s not down already. You’re point addresses the kick off team touching the ball. So I was wrong in comparing us for covering the ball to them are covering the ball but it doesn’t change the fact that they could’ve gotten the ball with one second left and attempted a hailmary. The chances of a hailMary are higher than a 10 lateral kick return against Clemson with our speed and it’s not even close. On a hailMary all u need is a ball tipped up. A whole lot more luck goes into a crazy kick return than a hailMary


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 5:48 PM
 

Again, no they couldn't have. There was only 1 second left on the clock which would have ran off when Bama fielded the ball.

For reference, go back and look at the onside kick A&M tried against us this year. Before the kick there were 46 seconds on the clock. After the kick there were 45 seconds left. You can't make a live play without at least 1 second coming off, and fielding a kick in the middle of the field is considered a live play.

Had we kicked it up in the air then they could've called a fair catch which wouldn't be considered a live play, but that wasn't the case. The clock starts as soon as it's touched by the receiving team, and doesn't stop until the ref whistles the play dead.


Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 6:24 PM
 

Having been in the stadium that night and suffered through several unnecessary replay reviews that were only buzzed in to possibly benefit Alabama there is no way Little Nicky wouldn’t have gotten a favorable replay review of 1 second being left on the clock after recovering the kick. IMHO it was an unbelievably stupid risk.

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Re: Not to mention it's the same ST group that executed a


Posted: Oct 8, 2018 12:17 PM
 

Yes Renfrow possessed it for the slightest second before falling straight down therefore at least 1 second must run off. He didn't DIVE on the ball. If Bama dove on the ball then they wouldn't have possessed it until he was already down resulting in zero time running off the clock. You're right about no time running off if the kicking team recovers


Re: That's some serious revisionist history


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 3:00 PM
 

?? this!

I was in the stadium and you could hear a pin drop when that fake on side kick popped in the air .... ??


Yeah, don’t know about everybody...


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 3:59 PM
 

But I remember turning to my dad telling him, “watch them do an onside kick here.” It just seemed like the perfect moment for one when no one would expect it and lil Nicky knew he was going to have a hard time stopping Watson and crew.

Anyway, we were too ticked, and frankly stunned, to even acknowledge it. It felt silly...almost like a big middle finger to Clemson nation. If a few things had went differently, we would’ve been back to back NCs.


Click bait.... I was wanting another poll***


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:52 PM
 



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My favorite part is...

[1]
Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:52 PM
 

"I just see very little change the past few years except for K.O./punt coverage and Potter."

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: My favorite part is...


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:51 PM
 

2018-101
2017-89
2016-87
2015-86

.....little change.

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Re: My favorite part is...


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 4:40 PM
 

except for:

- KO Coverage
- Punt Coverage
- Potter

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Lol. Look at what your pissed off about...


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 6:15 PM
 

“Team Efficiencies - 2018
Team efficiencies are based on the point contributions of each unit to the team's scoring margin, on a per-play basis. The values are adjusted for strength of schedule and down-weighted for "garbage time" (based on win probability). The scale goes from 0 to 100; higher numbers are better and the average is roughly 50 for all categories. Efficiencies update daily during the season.“

WHAT!?! Dear God ESPN likes to screw around with statistics and tell you it’s important.

Be smarter than this.

Our kickoff D is #2 in the country.
Kickoff returns is #31.
Punt defense is #73.
Punt returns is #36.

Our punter ranks #77 in the country in punt yardage.

So the answer is probably that Spiers needs to get a bit more out of his kicks.

That’s IT.

null


Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 1:59 PM
 

The special teams play that bothered me this year was Spier's last punt vs A&M when Dabo called the rollout kick and he barely kicked it. Up to that kick Spier's was having a career game. 44 yd avg if im not mistaken and dabo called that....There have been so many hiccups over the years from Dabo, but others coaching staffs are worse. We still win so it's not talked about


Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:26 PM
 

The last punt before that one was nearly blocked. I think it makes sense to play the odds when being up 8 to make them drive down to score against our defense, rather than take the chance of them blocking a punt.


Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 4:36 PM
 

They never got close to blocking a punt. What are u watching? They didn’t even come after the last punt. They set up a return


Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 6:01 PM
 

You're welcome to go back and look at the game. It was our punt with just over 4 minutes left in the game.


Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 8, 2018 12:20 PM
 

I have. They really weren't that close to blocking it and Spiers still got off a good punt down to the 15.....


Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:01 PM
 

One thing I noticed against Syracuse that really bothered me was kickoffs. BT crushed all of ours through the end zone, while the Syracuse kicker was dropping in his at the 1. We would return ours to about the 15-20 and they would start at the 25.

I don't know what the average starting field position was for kickoffs was, but I would be surprised if they didn't have a +5. With 6 kickoffs, the yardage adds up.

To me it seems like a bad rule. If the intent is to protect players, it seems like awarding the 25 on a fair catch rather than encouraging the short kicks with lots of collisions makes more sense.


Well, all we would have to do is fair catch them


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:02 PM
 

And we'd start at the 25, new rule this year.

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Syracuse is one of the top teams in the country...


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:18 PM
 

on kickoff and punt coverage.

Pretty easy to see why huh !?!?!?

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


We can fair catch those short kicks and start at the 25 as


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:49 PM
 

well. In fact, that's probably what we should be doing the majority of the time since we so rarely get anything positive out of our return game.


Amen to that


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 3:28 PM
 

Only return it if it's past the 3 yard line and between the hashes.

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Obed Ariri > Potter

[1]
Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:07 PM
 

I remember Obed kicking them out of the end zone and the other team would get the ball on the 20

Now Potter is doing it and letting them get it on the 25.

We need to improve this...that 5 yards might mean something one game.

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Aside from last year when Huegel got hurt, FG kicking


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 2:48 PM
 

is the one area on ST that we are always solid. Aside from place kicker it's just been one thing after another. We get one area shored up just for another one to turn into a major weakness.

I think punting has been consistently bad for most of Dabo's tenure and certainly on all of of our title caliber teams going back to 2015. We've been near the bottom of pretty much any punting statistic you want to look at in recent years whether it's net punting, punt success rate or whatever. The most successful punts we've had in the last couple of years were rugby style punts and QB quick punts out of the shotgun.

For awhile we also had a lot of trouble defending kickoffs. Last year we got better and this year we have Potter who is a major weapon. That doesn't look to be an issue for the next few years, thankfully.

Our punt return game has consistently been one of the worst in the country. Last year it was better and more explosive with Ray Ray, but he was also a bit shaky fielding them. This year we've once again struggled to generate much on punt returns and Amari also had trouble fielding punts last Saturday, but we've faced some terrific punters so far this year, so that one may improve.

We've similarly been towards the bottom in kickoff returns. Honestly I'm just happy to take the ball at the 25 every time. It is a little puzzling that we would struggle to find dynamic kick returns, but we very rarely have big KO returns and many don't even reach the 25.

Honestly, it just seems like the staff doesn't prioritize special teams. We've still been a really good football team despite the special teams woes so maybe that strategy is paying off by putting more of our resources into other areas, but it is frustrating to see the poor special teams year after year, especially when major special teams mistakes cost or nearly cost us a game.


Huegel has really struggled this year...


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 3:45 PM
 

He is currently tied for 68th nationally having made just 5 of his 8 attempts (.625).

That trails powerhouse teams like Navy, Ohio, Kent State, UTSA, Akron, Texas State, Rice, Ball State, and Nevada.

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I don't think they are "so bad" but there is a weakness


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 3:36 PM
 

around punting. A lot of times it seems we give up too many return yards. And on the other side, we don't seem to bust many big returns.

But still, aside from last weekend, the punt teams do OK. The rest of the special teams seem to do very well most of the time.

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Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 4, 2018 4:53 PM
 

Same reason our tight ends have a tough time blocking.

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Re: Why are our special teams so bad?


Posted: Oct 8, 2018 12:52 PM
 

To my knowledge, unlike other programs, we don't have a dedicated special teams coach. ie no one directly accountable. When I played hsfb it was emphasized that 1/3 or all plays during a game were special team plays.


Hire Beamer as a consultant


Posted: Oct 8, 2018 1:14 PM
 

Heard he needs the $$$$

GO TIGERS

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