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All-In [42000]
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Franklin Graham asks us all to pray for Trump on Sunday.
May 31, 2019, 8:24 AM
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No, seriously. A national day of prayer for Dear Leader. Link below, and I Foxxed it for the Trumpies.
So, help me with this, because I also have trouble with this group prayer mentality on any issue let alone praying for Trump.
Is this how God works? When Person A is going through a tough time, the power of group prayer will fix it? What's God's quota on how many prayers it takes for him to take action? Is he so busy that this suddenly gets his attention?
"Oh, ####... didn't see that my boy Donald was getting attacked so badly. Thanks for the prayers, guys, I got it."
Like how someone asks for us all to send prayers on Facebook for their ill relative. Do they not have a chance unless they get X amount of prayers?
Couldn't God just say, "Hey, guys, the prayers are great, but all this is wrong, so I'll fix it."
Because when that person overcomes, we're told, "The prayers worked! God is great!"
And when that person doesn't, it's, "Well, God has a plan." (Which, by the way, is the stupidest and shittiest thing you can say to someone who is grieving over the loss of a loved one... don't ever do it).
Anyway, back to Dear Leader. So Mr. Graham believes that he is under assault by the forces of evil, and the only way to save him is if we all pray?
Okay. Help me understand it if I'm missing something here.
Also, Graham calls Trump "the most Christian-friendly president in my lifetime."
https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/trump-prayer-franklin-graham-media-attacks
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Didn't you say you don't believe in God?
May 31, 2019, 8:28 AM
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I don't think you give a chit about it. The truth is that you have a crow to pick with God because you don't like the way he runs his creation.
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All-In [42000]
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Did I?
May 31, 2019, 8:30 AM
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I'm agnostic, bruh. Not atheist.
Is that how he runs his creation? Things only get done if he receives X amount of prayers? How many prayers does Trump need?
Do you think Trump is a Christian president?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Did I?
May 31, 2019, 8:33 AM
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God wants to know we are all serious.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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It's come down to semantics?
May 31, 2019, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to Did I? ] |
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No, I do not think Trump is a Christian president but that has nothing to do with what I said or Graham's call for prayer either. As I said, crow to pick and I'll promise you, God has a pot to cook it in.
You ought to go right in his face and make your accusation instead of flying around like a gadfly and aggravating your problem by thinking you're aggravating or frustrating him.
It's cheap to talk about someone when you can go right to them and settle the issue.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: It's come down to semantics?
May 31, 2019, 9:06 AM
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You ought to go right in his face and make your accusation instead of flying around like a gadfly and aggravating your problem by thinking you're aggravating or frustrating him.
Oh, I thought saying it out loud, or just thinking it, was doing it right in his face? All-knowing and all, huh?
See how the logic starts to fall apart when you spell it out?
As I said, crow to pick and I'll promise you, God has a pot to cook it in.
Is this your subtle way of insinuating I'm going to hell?
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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I'd still like to see your logic about your two coup
May 31, 2019, 9:54 AM
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posts, and how you "called it", but really, there were two entirely different thoughts.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I said you wouldn't understand.
May 31, 2019, 10:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: It's come down to semantics? ] |
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You probably should read this because reading it is going to increase your responsibility of what you know. When a man knows something he aquires a certain amount of responsibility so you are fairly warned. Take my advise and let it go now. Proceed at your own risk.
Perhaps you think I'm joking when I say you're on my prayer list. It's not a joke. From a Christian's perspective prayer is primarily meant for the one praying. The subject of the prayer receives benefits in strange unpredictable ways. God's response to the subject is customized for the subject's benefit.
It benefits a Christian by making them love the one who is the object of their prayer. That's why the Bible teaches us, as directed by Paul, to pray for one another. It's the exact action which makes us love one another.
I have no idea how my prayers for you will bear on you. I just pray God has his way in your life and heart. I don't even pretend to instruct him on what to do or how to do it. I am subject to him, he is subject to me only in that he responds to prayer because of he make himself obligated with a promise.
If I prayed for ways and means I would undo the prayer at the end by asking that his will be done and not mine. Just like Christ when he prayed in the garden then went to Calvary and died for your sin.
I have never met anyone in my life of 67 years who keeps a promise like him. You can not escape this. They say only taxes and death are inevitable, that's almost true. Results of prayer are inevitable and you can cheat on your taxes.
Hell is not in your future.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: I said you wouldn't understand.
May 31, 2019, 12:45 PM
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Appreciate it, but you can just buy me a beer and we'll be square.
While you're praying to him, ask him why he let that ####### swerve into oncoming traffic and shatter so many lives while letting the ####### keep walking around. He'll know which one I'm talking about. Maybe if he has a good answer, I'll start entertaining the possibility of seeing what promises he can keep.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Your premise is corrupt.
May 31, 2019, 1:19 PM
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God allows nothing. Casting blame on God excuses the guy who did it. That's childish and narrow minded to try and make excuses for the guy by claiming it's God's fault for allowing it.
Again and again I've said this. Consider parenting. A baby is born. That child has no authority, no responsibility and no accountability at birth. Parents have 100% of all three.
During her life good parents slowly transfer all three to the child in equal measure. The give her bits of authority over her young life and along with that they make her responsible to the ends and outcomes from her exercise of her authority. They also hold her accountable. Good parents do this in equal measure for a reason. Poor parents break rank and pass out authority too soon before the child is accountable. It's almost impossible to blame the child and hold her accountable.
God is The Good Father, in fact he is the standard, perfect and none is better. The difference between Adam and that baby in the last paragraph is that when Adam was given responsibility he usurped God's authority and ate the forbidden fruit. It wasn't the only thing to eat in the garden it was the only thing forbidden that we know of.
We have Adam's nature within each of us. If you mark a line on the drive to let a child know how far they can ride their trike they will immediately go to that line and look to see if you are watching. Without fair warning they will put the front wheel of that trike on the line and watch you react.
Eventually, they will cross the line to see if you lied when you said there would be repercussion. If you don't do something you will or you will soon see that child in the street.
We took God's authority over our lives and we do what we want. Some are careful but some are not. God is not at fault in any measure for what happens in a wreck. If you expect something from him in your life you will have to put your life in his hand and allow him the authority that goes with the responsibility you have already attempted to place on him.
You can believe that or not. It's a simple but accurate explanation for the loaded question you asked. It's up to you, he's shed his blood to make this available to you and you are again being offered the deal. You can't give God responsibility and accountability without giving him an equal amount of authority. You can whine, impeach his character or complain about what he hasn't done but he gave us life twice. We were born in flesh and he's provided for us to be born in spirit and move from spiritual death to life by the sacrifice he made on the cross.
Hell is no more than a continuance of death but without God's presence. That scares me much more than burning for eternity.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Your premise is corrupt.
May 31, 2019, 1:36 PM
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God allows nothing. Casting blame on God excuses the guy who did it. That's childish and narrow minded to try and make excuses for the guy by claiming it's God's fault for allowing it.
Call it what you want. Doing nothing when you have the ability to stop it is just as bad. I don't care if you think it's childish or whatever. She's still dead and she shouldn't be. Thus, the "plan" makes little sense to me.
Also, that religion is no more valid than Norse gods or Buddhism or whatever. I know. You'll say otherwise and argue up and down why it is. And those other religions can do the same thing. But I'll at least tell you not to waste your time praying for me. Maybe direct it towards people who will appreciate it more.
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CU Guru [1878]
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The *plan* only makes sense if you ignore all reasoning***
May 31, 2019, 1:46 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Re: The *plan* only makes sense if you ignore all reasoning***
May 31, 2019, 2:07 PM
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What part of having equal amounts of authority, accountability and responsibility defies your logic?
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I didn't argue anything.
May 31, 2019, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Your premise is corrupt. ] |
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I answer a question. I didn't accuse you of being childish. But approach God's throne like a child is how I come to understanding about things which don't fall within my area of responsibility. I spoke from the heart as to how I understand the answer to your question.
I challenge you to find me arguing about God's existence. It it above my paygrade to even consider usurping the authority of the Holy Spirit and trying to make anyone believe anything. Prayer is my only part of such an argument though I am permitted to respond to some questions some of the time.
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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Is God omnipotent?***
May 31, 2019, 2:09 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Yes.
May 31, 2019, 5:28 PM
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Why do you think he told Adam to eat of any tree in the garden but that one?
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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One would think were he omipotent, he would control
Jun 3, 2019, 11:13 AM
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everything, good and bad.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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One might think He could have made us robots and that...
Jun 3, 2019, 12:49 PM
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nasty clause giving everyone civil rights in America wouldn't be necessary. But then one would be missing free will because robots don't have it because it's not in their design.
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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But yet he wants us to worship him and do what he says
Jun 3, 2019, 3:31 PM
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and if we don't, we go to hell0 forever.
Why wouldn't it just be easier for everyone involved to make us robots?
This seems like a stupid game, like a cat with mouse he doesn't want to kill, but just bat around for a while.
But this really deflects from my question, and point, that if God is omnipotent, he can and does control all outcomes, before we even could know what they are.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Standout [345]
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Re: does anyone really believe Obama was a Christian?***
May 31, 2019, 10:10 AM
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More so than should believe evangelicals are real Christians.
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All-TigerNet [11130]
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Who is a better example of Christian values?
May 31, 2019, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to does anyone really believe Obama was a Christian?*** ] |
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The guy that has been married to one wife for 25+ years, made his family life a priority in raising his two young daughters, and understood the concept of servant leadership? or the guy that has cheated on every single one of his 3 wives multiple times, who does/did not make his family a priority, who also couldn't possibly understand the idea of putting someone else's needs before his own, mostly because of his own vanity and fragile ego.
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All-In [42000]
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I'm skeptical...
May 31, 2019, 12:50 PM
[ in reply to does anyone really believe Obama was a Christian?*** ] |
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That a lot of politicians, particularly presidents, are Christians. But they know they have to claim it to get elected.
That being said, Obama was at least a lot more Christ-like than Trump.
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Oculus Spirit [82972]
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Who knows.
May 31, 2019, 1:26 PM
[ in reply to does anyone really believe Obama was a Christian?*** ] |
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It's fairly easy for me to recognize a living spirit within another but I've never known a POTUS well enough to know about any of them.
Although the Bible say we can know a tree by the fruit it bears God has not allowed me to inspect fruit yet. I only know the spirit of the saved. That doesn't qualify me to say who isn't.
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All-In [40656]
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You're a sad, sad soul
May 31, 2019, 8:58 AM
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Trying to justify WHY prayer is needed. Its prayer. Prayer has never hurt anyone.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: You're a sad, sad soul
May 31, 2019, 9:05 AM
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I never claimed it hurt anyone, kid. I'm asking why people think group prayer efforts like this are effective and why Trump needs it.
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All-In [40656]
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Because we as Christians believe in power of prayer.
May 31, 2019, 9:13 AM
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God hears every single prayer. One does not hold more weight than the other. A collection of prayers does not hold more water than a single prayer from someone in need. Prayer is the only way we can communicate with our Father in Heaven. Should never be shamed, condemned or restricted.
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Because we as Christians believe in power of prayer.
May 31, 2019, 9:15 AM
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In the case of this group prayer for Trump, yes, it should be shamed and shamed hard.
Sorry, I see too much emphasis nowadays put on the volume of prayer and that doesn't make a lick of sense.
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All-In [40656]
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Do you also think Muslims praying in a group five times a
May 12, 2024, 6:27 PM
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day should be shamed? Or just conservatives that voted for Trump that happen to believe in God?
REALLY GETS THAT NOGGIN A JOGGIN, bigot.
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Re: Do you also think Muslims praying in a group five times a
May 31, 2019, 11:30 AM
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@Catahoula
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All-In [40656]
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When he tries for a hot take on Trump supporting Christians
May 31, 2019, 11:34 AM
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But also throws an entire religion under the bus that prays, at minimum, 5 times a day in large groups.
@Catahoula
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All-In [48078]
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Re: When he tries for a hot take on Trump supporting Christians
May 31, 2019, 11:36 AM
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What happens if we pray for the opposite of what Graham calls for? Whose prayer does God answer?
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All-In [40656]
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Im sure you have heard of unanswered prayers.
May 31, 2019, 11:45 AM
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Its not my job to answer for what prayers go unanswered. But someone with such a narrow point of view as you, im sure you choose to be agnostic because of the anger you hold over unanswered prayers.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Im sure you have heard of unanswered prayers.
May 31, 2019, 11:54 AM
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You seem angry. I don't pray, nor do I believe in prayer. I don't think that is any more narrow than your point of view. I have no "anger for prayers not answered". Anyway, prayer to me just seems like meditation for one's self. I doubt some god is listening, but anything is possible, since nobody knows for sure. Anyway, I just asked what you thought happens when one prays the opposite of another.
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110%er [9174]
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As usual, that is where you are completely wrong.
Jun 3, 2019, 11:34 AM
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Those that know of God's existence because they have direct experience KNOWS FOR SURE, there is God.
But you and others will never know until it happens to you. Until then, f-heads like you will yukk the topic up.
-Tesla
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110%er [9174]
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It's because those waterheads can't conceive
Jun 3, 2019, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Im sure you have heard of unanswered prayers. ] |
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of a God granting anything but a utopic earth. God can't be like parents, let children have enough rope to hang themselves. How horrible of a God would that be, in the minds of the Atheistics Lost??
How could God allow Satan to have Satan's way to one human? Then, God reached down and stop Satan's destiny to another.
It's inconceivable for those Agnostic fuckheads to think God does all this, for a better plan for that human.
-Nikoli
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Oculus Spirit [80954]
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I guess children dying with painful and terrible disease
Jun 3, 2019, 3:41 PM
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is all because of a "better plan".
Sorry man..thats about where the fairy tale ends.
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110%er [9174]
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Pretty broad interpretation can be taken from your statement
Jun 4, 2019, 10:32 PM
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Neck down to what your thoughts are when writing your retort.
-Doc Nikola Tesla
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110%er [9174]
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All-In [42000]
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Do you also think Muslims praying in a group five times a
May 31, 2019, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to Do you also think Muslims praying in a group five times a ] |
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Good Christ. Would Crump pay me if I offered a reading comprehension course specifically for this board?
I said those who are joining in a national day of prayer just to pray for Trump should be shamed. Anyone else praying for whatever, nah, they good. Have at it. I just don't get the call for prayer volume to solve problems.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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You're not supposed to get it.
Jun 2, 2019, 10:56 AM
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Prayer is only for the lost when they realize they are lost. Otherwise it's for those who are saved. I know that's a primitive way to say it but it's the simplest and most honest. A lost man's prayer can't be prayed as Christ instructed because at the end He said, 'Thy will be done.' If a lost man believe that 'Thy will be done,' he would repent and ask Christ into his heart.
The lost can't pray 'in Jesus,' because that's like saying you're praying from Atlanta when you're in NYC or visa versa. The only venue that is applicable is in Christ. The prayers of the lost are prayed from the wrong venue. God hears them but only honors one prayer of the lost. 'I'm a sinner just like everyone else and I want to be in Christ because that's where You want me.' In essence, one gives his will to God. Then one who is lost is in Christ which is the proper venue to have prayers heard by God.
Thus, 'Prayer is only for the lost, when and if they realize they are lost. Otherwise it's for those who are saved.'
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110%er [9174]
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Lot o points [155581]
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Why is it someone’s job to answer this for you?
May 31, 2019, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: You're a sad, sad soul ] |
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If you’re that concerned about it, how about laying out why it’s ineffective and why Trump doesn’t need it and give someone who disagrees the opportunity to refute your opinions?
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All-In [42000]
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Re: Why is it someone’s job to answer this for you?
May 31, 2019, 1:08 PM
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Sorry for bringing up a religion topic on the Politics and Religion Board. To discuss. You know.
But I'll answer your questions:
1. The idea that we need an organized, mass group prayer to get God's attention and get him to fix declared evil completely contradicts the image Christianity has painted of God. All-powerful. All-knowing. If Trump is the good guy and is being attacked by evil, God knows it. He can stop it. He doesn't need a mass of voices.
2. Too many Christians subscribe to this group prayer mentality. They seem to place value in volume of prayers, and say they're needed to help someone through a hard time. Again, it doesn't make sense, and that's not how God is supposed to work. Their responses depending on whether the person pulls through or not also don't make sense.
3. The idea that Trump is some great Christian savior president is absurd, and this call by Franklin Graham just boils down to idol worship.
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Lot o points [155581]
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i have no issue with the topic and the board it’s on
May 31, 2019, 4:01 PM
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It’s just this passsive aggressive methodology of “hey you guys explain x to me”, when your opinion is already fully formulated and you don’t desire an explanation so much as the chance to “gotcha” somebody. Just say what’s on your mind in the first post already, and don’t pretend you’re seeking answers to questions you’ve already fully answered in your own mind.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Imo, Cat...
May 31, 2019, 5:39 PM
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isn't as hard as he wants folks to believe. He poses a lot of loaded questions which most can't answer but when you get down to the nitty gritty with him I believe he listens. I'm satisfied he has the ear.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I just now got to your question.
May 31, 2019, 5:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: You're a sad, sad soul ] |
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1 Timothy chpt 2 vs 1-4
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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You've never had an old granny woman pray for you.***
May 31, 2019, 10:10 AM
[ in reply to You're a sad, sad soul ] |
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All-In [40656]
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Im sure my grandmother prayed for me
May 31, 2019, 11:38 AM
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When she was alive. She passed when I was 4. But ive heard she was the most God fearing woman this world has ever seen. She grew and harvested tobacco and cotton, with her 7 other brothers and sisters in a small town north of Winston. Also helped build the church my parents got married in, with stone she and her family mined from a nearby mountain.
My other grandmother has severe dementia and Alzheimers. She survived Nazi Germany as a child and had a couple brushes with Allied bombing in her town. At one point, she was a widowed mother of three. Immigrated, legally, to the United States and built a family in northern Ohio.
I assume this was meant for @catahoula, and if thats the case... it might be true. Those old women truly know Jesus.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Your grandmother was an outstanding example of...
May 31, 2019, 12:51 PM
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a spiritually mature Christian. I honor her memory and appreciate you testifying on the value of her life. I am truly sorry that you didn't have her while growing up.
Imagine had you been late teens while she was alive and that you were headed down the wrong track. That's what I was thinking when I made the statement. I did not intend to insult your grandmother's memory I was just pointing toward how an old woman prays. Like a Nun their every day is prayerful no matter what else is happening in their lives. They can pray more in a day than a church leader prays in a week.
Again, forgive me for giving the impression I disrespect your grandmother.
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All-In [40656]
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You good man. I think I misread originally
May 31, 2019, 1:32 PM
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No harm no foul!
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All-TigerNet [11130]
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Call to prayer for Trump drunk proto-Christians. God had
May 31, 2019, 11:59 AM
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a lot to say about idols, doesn't look like Rev Graham heeds the message, though.
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All-In [28802]
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I'm guessing the prefix you wanted was "quasi"***
May 31, 2019, 1:19 PM
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All-TigerNet [11130]
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No, I was going for primative/early...mainly to
May 31, 2019, 2:57 PM
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contextualize current fundamentalism in the terms of OT stories and early Jewish faith examples. Not only that, but also indicating the ignorance of strict adherence to Pharisaic rituals later on, while being blind to the humanity of the least of us.
Proto is exactly what I meant.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Legend [17220]
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One’s prayers can be constructed in a number of ways. ***
May 31, 2019, 12:13 PM
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110%er [9298]
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Let me ask you this. Do you really believe there is much
May 31, 2019, 2:00 PM
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difference in the two party system? Both parties are basically identical, spare a few things they throw out to the media to isolate the other party and secure their base.
Neither Trump or Hillary were good choices. But they aren’t much different. Trump used to back Hillary.
Just amazes me that most people, mostly intelligent, can’t see through the BS
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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We wouldn't be near as well off had Hillary won.***
May 31, 2019, 5:42 PM
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110%er [9298]
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CT88 - always respect your opinion
May 31, 2019, 6:07 PM
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Really do not think there would be much difference between the two as far as we sit now. I did not vote, first time since I’ve had the opportunity that l chose to decline a vote. Given the choice I would have probably voted Trump. Neither choice was good. Desperately need a legit third party, but doubt that happens anytime soon
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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I agree that neither choice was good.
May 31, 2019, 8:40 PM
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I figured Trump for a liar. Turns out he made a lot of promises and if the dems' hate for him wasn't quite so high he would have kept them all. He's kept more promises than any POTUS in my lifetime. Even Reagan got tricked into granting amnesty to millions of illegals in a deal to fix immigration and stop illegal crossing. I love the man but he was a Putz.
So yeah, there's no way our economy would be doing so well and our unemployment would be so low with Hillary. She would have been all about social programs and Obamacare. That's why the older pubs hate her. She backed a universal health plan back when Bill was Potus.
Trump is her opposite.
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All-In [42000]
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: Franklin Graham asks us all to pray for Trump on Sunday.
May 31, 2019, 2:07 PM
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Man this thread is going to be a good read next time I have to dump.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Why do you care?
May 31, 2019, 3:03 PM
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people want to pray for him. Doesnt hurt anyone, well it appears its hurting you for some reason.
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Hall of Famer [22930]
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T & Ps don't work for school shootings
May 31, 2019, 3:50 PM
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Why would it help Trump?
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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If there is any consolation from losing a child...
May 31, 2019, 5:48 PM
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I can't imagine it coming anytime soon after the loss. Prayers always work. Prayer is designed for the one praying to love whoever he is praying for. That's why we are directed to pray for enemies, it turns away the soul cancer the Bible calls hate. In God's eyes to hate someone is to murder them. It's the same sin but the person doing the hating is the one who suffers not the one he hates.
It doesn't take a Bible scholar or even a student of the Word to know how hate reacts in a man's soul.
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All-In [26968]
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Every day should be a national day of prayer
Jun 1, 2019, 5:03 PM
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for the President. There's obviously nothing wrong with this. The President needs more prayer, not fewer.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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is it any different than when in 2012
Jun 1, 2019, 8:31 PM
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The Rev. Franklin Graham, the president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, is calling for prayer for the nation and for President Barack Obama this Thanksgiving week
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Yes, this is for Trump.
Jun 2, 2019, 9:42 AM
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Subconsciously everyone knows that you pray only for those you love because praying for an enemy will ruin your hatefest.
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Replies: 69
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