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Replies: 73
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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When Trump refused to condemn Proud Boys and white
Oct 1, 2020, 12:32 PM
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supremacists in the debate Tuesday, it was brazen, notable and awful, but I figured it would be forgotten within a matter of hours given that he's done this kind of thing many times before and the press just lets it go. This time feels a little different, for some reason.
Here's Fox News Journalist John Roberts, not some communist from CNN, this morning to whatever her name is making quite a fuss:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUDoZXo2jSU&feature=emb_logo
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [46800]
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Then do it every single time***
Oct 1, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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why?
Oct 1, 2020, 12:43 PM
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Because I agree with you if he would just say it, it would defuse it.
But I also believe Trump sees the questions as ridiculous. I think that is why he often doesn't even entertain the idea. Most people don't feel the need to denounce racism every day of their lives and the perceived need to do so is stupid.
In the debate when he was asked the question, he was interrupted by both Biden and Wallace. Trump asked, "who do you want me to specifically denounce?" That was never answered in the chaos.
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All-In [46800]
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His automatic reaction should be to denounce it
Oct 1, 2020, 12:45 PM
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I get that it was confusing and rushed. But that is not an issue you want to misspeak on.
Be clear each and every time no matter how many times they ask because the media is going to ask a million times.
You can denounce it 1 million times too but the moment you go "eh" they will pounce.
That's just poor politics.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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what a terrible time to live in
Oct 1, 2020, 12:49 PM
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you must justify yourself every day because you might be a different person when you wake up than when you were when you went to bed the night before. This is asinine.
Now me, I have no issue with denouncing it every time I'm asked. But why should I have to. Just seems unreasonable.
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All-In [46800]
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That's politics yo
Oct 1, 2020, 12:51 PM
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Obama had to answer the same questions about his birth certificate for years because of conspiracy theorists and our current president.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [48809]
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Just a bunch of lawsuits and an orange clown
Oct 1, 2020, 1:08 PM
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and it's only been two days since Trump openly supported a group founded on white supremacy/awkwardly condemned them by accidentally supporting them.
So, not 8 years yet.
But Obama did say, over and over, that he was born in Hawaii, so he didn't duck the question.
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Legend [15212]
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I think Trump's an idiot, but probably the least racist
Oct 1, 2020, 1:23 PM
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president we've ever had outside of maybe Obama.
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All-In [48809]
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How was Dubya racist?
Oct 1, 2020, 1:56 PM
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or Clinton, or HW or Reagan?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How was Dubya racist?
Oct 1, 2020, 2:00 PM
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All-In [48809]
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Yeeah, but that was ######## and it was said by a crazy
Oct 1, 2020, 2:02 PM
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person.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Yeeah, but that was ######## and it was said by a crazy
Oct 1, 2020, 2:06 PM
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All-In [48809]
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Reasonable people did not say that...
Oct 1, 2020, 2:10 PM
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there was argument over systemic problems that had not been addressed by the federal government prior to Katrina (talking here about inadequate levees and such) and there was a lot of bad vibes created by appointing someone with no disaster management experience to head FEMA. And there was probably some hand wringing about Bush's priorities after the flyover.
But rational people don't think Bush is racist.
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Legend [18003]
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Yes, it was answered. Biden answered "Proud boys"
Oct 1, 2020, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to why? ] |
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to which Trump replied, "Stand back and Stand By" which no one knows exactly what he meant (a problem) which allowed the Proud Boys to take as an affirmative (bigger problem). All he had to say was he condemns white supremacy and what the Proud Boys are doing. If he wanted to then turn it around to antifa/blm he could say, "the same as with all radical groups like anitfa/blm...blah blah blah." The fact that he couldn't condemn white supremacy in the context of the debate nor a specific group like the proud boys should give all citizens real concern about what the commander-in-chief believes. It doesn't matter what he said after or before, in the debate and in that moment, he couldn't do it and that carries more weight.
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Legend [18003]
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And it may not be that Trump is racist...
Oct 1, 2020, 3:48 PM
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it may just be what Santorum is saying here:
https://www.businessinsider.com/rick-santorum-trump-right-wing-extremists-voting-base-2020-9
"The Democrats owe a lot to Chris Wallace," Santorum said. "He asked two questions, where he was asking the president to do something he knows the president doesn't like to do."
Asked to elaborate, Santorum said: "Which is say something bad about people who support him. Right?"
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All-In [26968]
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This moment in the debate wasn't one of the more
Oct 1, 2020, 12:38 PM
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significant ones, to me. I think it's been overblown. It's like they were needlessly trying to get him to say something very specific, and he's being criticized for not saying something exactly the right way.
I think the "President is racist" angle is a losing angle. He just doesn't know how to talk about things like that very well.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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you nailed it...
Oct 1, 2020, 12:39 PM
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it's a strategy.
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All-In [48809]
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If he had said "sure" and then
Oct 1, 2020, 12:54 PM
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said, "But antifa sucks too"
We wouldn't be talking about it right now.
The little aside to the Proud Boys is a little different than "he just doesn't know how to talk about these things"
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All-In [26968]
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He did say "sure," essentially, but he was pressed further.
Oct 1, 2020, 12:56 PM
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To say something more specific. The implication that he was sending a message to a group to await his instructions for action is ludicrous. He just awkwardly tried to do what he was asked to do.
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All-In [48809]
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Trump was asked to denounce something...
Oct 1, 2020, 12:59 PM
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and he said, "Stand back and stand by" and you heard an awkward denunciation?
In what universe is that what pops into your head when you are asked to denounce someone and you are earnestly trying to do so?
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All-In [26968]
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I don't think he was earnestly trying to denounce someone
Oct 1, 2020, 1:03 PM
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I think he thought he already did that, and was just trying to recite some words that would make the moderator happy. I don't think he thought very deeply about them.
I think it's an indication that he gets easily frustrated, but I don't think it's an indication he supports white supremacy.
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All-In [48809]
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he told a group of his supporters...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:05 PM
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a group that openly supports him and was founded on principles of white supremacy, to "stand back and stand by"
When he meant to say how he was totally opposed to white supremacy?
And people think Biden has dementia?
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All-In [26968]
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You either didn't read or didn't comprehend my post.
Oct 1, 2020, 1:07 PM
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I don't think "he meant to say how he was totally opposed to white supremacy". I think he was clearly speaking out of exasperation, not out of a desire to relay an important statement.
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All-In [48809]
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So you think he's just that stupid?***
Oct 1, 2020, 1:08 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I don't do ad hominem.
Oct 1, 2020, 1:11 PM
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I believe the President said some words that weren't correct, but I don't think those words displayed a racist mindset. I have more of a problem with him calling Vice President Biden, "Joe," than I do with him "telling Proud Boys to stand by".
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All-In [26968]
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All-In [48809]
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How is confusing two numbers the same thing
Oct 1, 2020, 1:02 PM
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as telling a group of your supporters to "Stand back and stand by" when you "meant to say" "I denounce you and what you stand for"
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All-In [26968]
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Because he said "by" instead of "down".
Oct 1, 2020, 1:04 PM
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One word of difference changes the whole thing.
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All-In [48809]
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stand back = stand down
Oct 1, 2020, 1:05 PM
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stand by = be ready
stand down /= be ready
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All-In [26968]
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...yes...exactly...***
Oct 1, 2020, 1:07 PM
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All-In [48809]
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/= means does not equal, just to be sure you're picking up
Oct 1, 2020, 1:09 PM
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what I'm putting down.
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All-In [26968]
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I clearly said in my previous post that
Oct 1, 2020, 1:11 PM
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"by" and "down" change the meaning of the phrase completely. So.....I obviously agree that they are not equal....
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All-In [34100]
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, one of the President's biggest faults, to me...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:25 PM
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Is that I don't think I've ever heard him apologize or admit wrongdoing. I'd like a President who apologizes all the time. I think that'd be great.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Yes, one of the President's biggest faults, to me...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:26 PM
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But if he insists that he meant what he said, then you're calling him a liar.
So now it's just whether he's a liar or a racist. (Obviously another option is both.)
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All-In [26968]
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Notice he didn't repeat "stand by" afterward.
Oct 1, 2020, 1:29 PM
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He's not going to admit he was wrong to say it, but he didn't, today, say "Yes, I repeat want them to stand by!" And he's not going to.
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All-In [34100]
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Re: Notice he didn't repeat "stand by" afterward.
Oct 1, 2020, 3:08 PM
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Meanwhile, the Proud Boys are now repeating the "stand by" command.
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All-In [48809]
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Legend [15212]
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I'm not a big fan of Trump, but I think he thought he was
Oct 1, 2020, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to /= means does not equal, just to be sure you're picking up ] |
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telling the group to stand back and stand down. I don't think he wanted to say that, but was saying it just to pacify Chris Wallace. Just my 2 cents.
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, I read and saw it the exact same way.
Oct 1, 2020, 1:23 PM
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And everyone knows I am not afraid to criticize the President's words. But I allow him the same grace as I allow anyone else, if I see a reason to.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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you don't really understand the importance of...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to I'm not a big fan of Trump, but I think he thought he was ] |
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not believing Trump. Trump can say he is not racist and he is not in support of white racist groups, but he is lying. Do you not understand. He is lying. We have to continue to ask him because he is lying.
Ignore Herschel Walker and all the black Uncle Tom's ast the RNC. Ignore his history before he became the facist king. He is a liar. Keep asking him until he tells the truth about how he hates black people.
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Legend [15212]
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Plenty of reasons to "hate" Trump. But he's not racist...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:48 PM
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And just because he's not racist doesn't mean he is even a halfway decent person.
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All-In [48809]
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His history also includes racial discrimination lawsuits
Oct 1, 2020, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to you don't really understand the importance of... ] |
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and the only black member of his inner circle called him racist on the way out the door. Given, she's a whack job, but he hasn't given us much of a sample size.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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I would bet just about anybody who runs businesses....
Oct 1, 2020, 2:13 PM
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On that scale will have their share of lawsuits, legitimate and illegitimate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/michael-bloomberg-women/
Further why does that particular woman (don’t remember her name) get credit for being inner circle. What about the Blacks on his cabinet and other Blacks heirs working with now? Should we be concerned that this inner circle person immediately wrote one of these books. Did she profit from it?
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All-In [48809]
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Sure...
Oct 1, 2020, 2:15 PM
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but that doesn't mean there is nothing to them.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [48809]
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i called her crazy too...***
Oct 1, 2020, 3:21 PM
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All-In [48809]
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I agree with that...
Oct 1, 2020, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to I'm not a big fan of Trump, but I think he thought he was ] |
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I just find it curious that the sitting President of the US feels enough affiliation to the Proud Boys that he asserts himself with them as if he were their leader as opposed to what is clearly his natural instinct which is to threaten to send in troops to kick their ###.
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110%er [9646]
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I see groups like the Proud Boys and people like Rittenhouse
Oct 1, 2020, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to How is confusing two numbers the same thing ] |
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as "necessary evils" to counter rioters destroying property because Democrat-run cities won't enforce "law and order". I think that's how Trump views it as well. Maybe that's why he won't specifically denounce them...
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I see groups like the Proud Boys and people like Rittenhouse
Oct 1, 2020, 1:46 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [48809]
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No, I'm talking about Trump...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:01 PM
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not his press secretary. And all I'm saying about Trump is based on what my reaction would have been. When I heard him say "sure" I didn't rewind to make sure I heard right. When I heard him say the other bit, I rewound to see exactly what the hell he said because I could not believe he said it.
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All-In [34100]
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Prod, go back and watch the video.
Oct 1, 2020, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to This moment in the debate wasn't one of the more ] |
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This is not really up for debate. He could have said "yes" and did EXACTLY what he did with Charlottesville: mealy mouthed nonsense so he doesn't lose the racist vote.
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All-In [34100]
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And just to drive the point home...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:18 PM
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notice how he talks about Antifa. Notice that he NEVER talks that way about white supremacists (the "very fine people").
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Is Charlottesville the only time he used the term...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:40 PM
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"very fine people?"
Because on that there is context in the 17 minute press conference, not in most of the short clips that make it sound like he was saying the racists were good people.
Even to shorten it up one could go to about the 12 minute mark. At 12:55 he says, "I'm not talking about the Neo Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKLKImE5UII
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All-In [26968]
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I watched this part...
Oct 1, 2020, 1:21 PM
[ in reply to Prod, go back and watch the video. ] |
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To be clear, I'm not saying that he said the right thing, or even a good thing.
I'm saying it's overblown in significance. I think it's more of instance of misspeaking than evil.
One may say he was trying to send a certain message, as you imply...I think it's clear he wasn't really thinking about what he was saying at all.
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Legend [18003]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: John Roberts just released a new message for The Lounge
Oct 1, 2020, 12:45 PM
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: John Roberts just released a new message for The Lounge
Oct 1, 2020, 12:54 PM
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User Logo
T3Tiger®
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Re: John Roberts just released a new message for The Lounge [2]
Posted: Oct 1, 2020 12:45 PM
Reply
You won’t be happy until he takes a knee and raises a fist
VERY WELL SAID. NO MATTER THAT HE SAID "SURE I DO" AT LEAST 3 TIMES DURING THE QUESTION.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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All-In [34533]
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how many times are you going to post this stuff? geeeezus***
Oct 1, 2020, 12:48 PM
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All-In [34100]
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Trump's a racist, water is wet LOL***
Oct 1, 2020, 12:51 PM
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All-In [34533]
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eggzackly***
Oct 1, 2020, 12:53 PM
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CU Medallion [55662]
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Yes, but this time it was on national TV and I am frankly
Oct 1, 2020, 1:19 PM
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surprised how little attention his failure to agree to the results of the election is getting.
That to me is even worse than the racist stuff. We all knew he was cozy with that crowd. Fine, you're an idiot and you've had your time in the sun, bye bye.
But not readily agreeing to abide by the results of the election is a possible constitutional crisis. I can't believe even he could not readily say yes to this.
Actually, I do believe it. Idiot.
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All-In [48809]
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I think that's harder to parse and not as straightforward...
Oct 1, 2020, 2:15 PM
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yes, he said he wouldn't accept the results if he thought there was evidence of fraud, but if people can defend what he said about the Proud boys, there's no point in arguing that statement.
Would be funny though if Justice Roberts, an avid defender of the integrity of the Supreme Court decided to delay a decision on any lawsuit until after January 20 and Nancy Pelosi ended up being the POTUS by succession.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Joined: 12/31/06
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that would be the quickest way to get him out***
Oct 1, 2020, 2:40 PM
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All-In [31855]
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That would be interesting to see from a...
Oct 1, 2020, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to I think that's harder to parse and not as straightforward... ] |
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historical perspective, but great day, can you imagine what would coming from the part of the populace that doesn't know what the Constitution says, etc... would be ugly.
I'm hoping for Trump to lose in a blow-out that's no where near close enough to question and we can put this President in our rear view mirror.
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110%er [9646]
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Joined: 9/10/99
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I think that's what's going to happen, with the caveat that
Oct 1, 2020, 2:58 PM
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I also thought Hillary was going to win in epic fashion as well...
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 63724
Joined: 12/31/06
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if Trump loses...
Oct 1, 2020, 3:38 PM
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by 1 or 1,000,000,000. He will leave the White House in January.
I'm going to go out on a limb with Joe Biden on this one.
There is so much setting our hair on fire issues that are not based in reality just to keep things stirred up.
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