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Topic: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...
Replies: 42   Last Post: Jun 14, 2020, 5:53 PM by: Tardog
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What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:04 AM
 

One has to wonder. Mr. Clemson essentially founded Clemson Agricultural College (by his Will). The school's doors didn't open for some 4-5 years after his death in 1888.

T. G. Clemson was born in Philadelphia in 1807. Educated later in Vermont and Paris. His academic passions were agriculture, mineralogy & chemistry.

In 1838, age 31, he married Anna Calhoun, daughter of John C. Calhoun. Anna and (later) Sec. of State John C. Calhoun must have told him about SC. Anyway, in 1843 at about age 36, Clemson purchased some 1000 acres near Edgefield, calling it "Canebrake." After buying the land, Clemson placed some 20 slaves there to (presumably) work the land. HE placed them there - they were not "part of the land deal." So, HE was a slave owner. Nothing much happened with Canebrake, because Clemson became ambassador to Belgium after being nominated by Sec. Calhoun, and President Tyler agreed.

Later, back in the U.S. and living in Maryland, Clemson served President Buchanan as (basically) Sec. of Agriculture, although not a cabinet post then. But, when the Civil War began in 1861, Clemson resigned and joined the Confederate Army. He was placed in charge of mining for nitrates used in explosives.

Well - those are the basics. Son-in-law of John C. Calhoun. Owner of the "Canebrake" Plantation. Owner of Canebrake's slaves. Four years in the Confederate Army. Outlived his wife and 4 children - so willed his inherited Fort Hill land for the purpose of Clemson College.

Since the Calhoun/Tillman business has been called a "first step," doesn't the name & statue of "Clemson" have to exit as well? Also - the Town of "Calhoun" became "Clemson" in 1943 - but wouldn't that have to change too?


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...

[4]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:22 AM
 

I'm going to wait until Yale is renamed before worrying about Clemson.


Elihu Yale:

"The records of this period mention a flourishing slave trade in Madras, a trade in which Yale participated and from which he profited. He enforced a law that at least ten slaves should be carried on every ship bound for Europe. In his capacity as judge he also on several occasions sentenced so-called "black criminals" to whipping and enslavement. When the demand began to increase rapidly, the English merchants even began to kidnap young children and deport them to distant parts of the world, very much against their will. At a time when profits from the slave trade were dwindling and pressure from the Mughal government to stop the enslavement was mounting, the administration of Fort St George eventually stepped in and introduced laws to curb enslavement."


Not No, but HE// NO!

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:28 AM
 

But let's keep bringing it up in multiple threads.

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Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:33 AM
 

He gone!

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Nothing happens with the name. Tillman still has to be

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:58 AM
 

approved by some form of state legislature.


I don't see 2/3 of the state legislature agreeing


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 3:18 AM
 

to rename it. There aren't 2/3 of that group of idiots that believe the earth is round. So what will happen is a few old impotent white men in Columbia will continue to call it Tillman, and the Clemson faculty and students will call it Old Main.


Ever say never. 10 years ago, it was said Calhoun & Tillman wouldn’t be removed.***

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 8:04 AM
 




Never say never***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 8:04 AM
 




Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...

[3]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 7:29 AM
 

You failed to mention that T.G. Clemson did not exclude blacks and women from attending his new college. Other southern colleges like Vanderbilt had them excluded.


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 7:55 AM
 

Is that true? So, if true he was a pioneer for civil rights?? Oh this is about to get interesting.


His Will. He died in 1888 and Clemson opened in 1889***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:06 AM
 



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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson


Re: His Will. He died in 1888 and Clemson opened in 1889***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:52 AM
 

That might be true, but all I've read says there were no "students" until 1893. There was a president, but it seems they just planning, building & having meetings before any students went to class. Of course, there could have been a big Covid-19 outbreak from 1889-1893.

https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/past-presidents.html



Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:32 AM
 

The people controlling admissions - or simply the norms of the era itself (mostly that women usually did not go to college and neither did blacks - nor could they vote, etc) resulted in all white and all male enrollment. It was not "prohibited" by T.G. Clemson in his Will, but more like 'de facto' prohibition. It simply wasn't mentioned, unlike Rice, Tulane, Auburn & many others where it WAS in the charter.

The college was not coed until 1955, and no blacks admitted until Harvey Gantt in 1963. Integration was fought until Gov. Fritz Hollings said, "It looks like SC has run out of courts (to appeal)." Hollings was also a staunch segregationist back then too, but the media stopped mentioning that by the '70s. Only Strom Thurmond carried the title "former segregationist" until his death.

So, it seems the Strom Thurmond Institute at CU will have to go - sooner or later (meaning when "Clemson" University is renamed, it can't become "Thurmond" University). Hollings was a Citadel & USC grad (& a former major segregationist) so he's out.

Others out - legendary Coach Howard. He never had a black player, even after integration (and Howard Univ. in D.C. already exists). Gen. Andrew Pickens? Nope. Fought in the Anglo-Cherokee War in the 176Os & the Cherokees lost a bunch of land, but later Pickens was highly regarded by the tribe - but - Pickens started Hopewell Plantation in 1784 & had slaves.

Possibles: Walter Riggs. Started football at Clemson in 1896 & served as president from 1910-25 (at his death). Harvey Gantt. First African- American to be enrolled at Clemson. Marion Reeves. First black football player at Clemson (Sept. 1971). Robert Poole - Clemson's WWII president, laid cornerstone to Death Valley, oversaw transition to coed in '55, president from 1940-58 (at his death). R.C. Edwards. President following Poole, oversaw the peaceful integration of Harvey Gantt in '63 & transition to "Clemson Univ" in '64, CU prez through 6 U.S. presidents - Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford & Carter.


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 8:48 AM
 

I'd love to believe that is true but serious question; how did Mr. Clemson accomplish that if he died 5 years prior to the opening of the University, unless possibly thru his Will...?

2021 white level member

His Will. He died in 1888 and Clemson opened in 1889***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:10 AM
 

Evidently, his will did not explicitly exclude minorities or women from attending.

He was a well educated man, he knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote his will and what it would mean.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpgmilitary_donation.jpg

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson


Re: His Will. He died in 1888 and Clemson opened in 1889***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:25 AM
 

Completely accurate information. Human beings are complicated and many faceted!


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 7:34 AM
 

Nothing

2021 white level member

things will calm down

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 8:01 AM
 

a couple of decades will go by. Riots will happen due to perceived facts and Clemson will apologize and change its name.

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Possibly Neal ... and donations will dwindle

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 8:34 AM
 

from alums that attended Clemson University and not Central University or Northwest South Carolina University.

2021 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

my donations have dwindled

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:32 AM
 

professors making 100-150k a year to teach one class a semester while having grad students grade tests and answering questions and undergrads grading papers. Of course the new assistant professors might have to teach as many as three classes.

The amount of coddling is crazy, the new buildings are insanely expensive and the University makes bank with loans to kids that have no idea what a loan means. The university has no skin in the game. Government backs the loans, everybody gets paid up front no matter the outcome...all in the name of equality.

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And colleges offer degrees with which kids cannot get jobs,

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:46 AM
 

and the professors lobby against legislation that would require them to tell the kids that info. There is indeed a lot of fat in the system, and it needs to go. Tenure needs to go. Profs need to impart their knowledge to students. Clemson needs to actually value a "legacy" student instead of preferring a really high gpa from Wyoming or wherever. Times have changed since I was there for sure, and not for the good on the academic and admission side.

2021 white level member

37,000 a year tution to send my kids to Clemson

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:53 AM
 

or 9,100 a year to go to State. I chose State along with their higher rated engineering program. Third kid went to unc charlotte which was even cheaper and still was able to land a 55k a year job 2 months ago during covid.

Its seems that at one time, there was a legacy that would have helped lower tuition for us.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Agree. I have two nieces with 4.0 gpas (without ap crap)

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:00 AM
 

that wanted to study engineering. Clemson started out slow with their terribly late communication date, and zero interest in any help. There are 4 Clemson engineering degrees in my generation (including spouses). So they took scholarships and lower tuition to equivalent engineering schools in-state. One's graduated and working for a chemical company. The other has 2 years remaining. What Clemson does not realize is that they have pretty much killed any donation $$ from my Brother, and likewise there's no longer a Clemson "chain" that would interest my Dad for donations. Seems very short-sighted to me.

2021 white level member

Your nieces have the wrong skin color.***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:15 AM
 



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There's something in these hills.


Re: 37,000 a year tution to send my kids to Clemson

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:06 AM
 

Nc state has a better engineering program than Clemson I didn’t know that but the 37000 is because your out of state. The grading papers happens everywhere but I don’t like that either. Clemson is going far left fast and I mean fast


NC State is as bad or worse when it comes to Professors


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:46 AM
 

not doing much and also with building insane buildings to appease the students.

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But “Clemson family!”

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:14 AM
 

...there is no such thing.

2021 student level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

There's something in these hills.


Not in the admissions department for sure!***

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:53 PM
 



2021 white level member

What’s wrong with a degree in gender studies?***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:13 AM
 



2021 student level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

There's something in these hills.


I didn't give my kids that choice

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:50 AM
 

they got to choose from any STEM major that they liked. I didn't give them much choice in college either. State University or get a full ride scholarship. None of this we will give you enough scholarship money to match the highest State University assuming they will give you zero $s either.

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Gender studies is what you do in your free time while


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:57 PM
 

getting a degree that will get you a good paycheck!

2021 white level member

Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:17 AM
 

I don't think the University name will change. If it did the only logical choice (not already taken) would be SC A&M.


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 9:25 AM
 

How about SC Tech? Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, S Carolina Tech.

What irks me about that is it sounds like a subsidiary of what’s in Columbia.


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:19 AM
 

https://youtu.be/lITBGjNEp08

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There's something in these hills.


If that happens I will burn my Clemson diplomas and pawn my class ring.***

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 10:16 AM
 

nm

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There's something in these hills.


The name cannot be changed


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 12:30 PM
 

It was established by the will that granted the land and startup money. If the state accepted, the name would be Clemson Agricultural College of SC. If it didn’t accept within three years, a private school called Clemson Scientific Institute or Clemson College would be established instead. (I’m certain I’ve seen this as Fort Hill Institute, maybe an earlier version of his will). The name changes to Clemson A&M College and the Clemson University were considered within the scope of the will. Even 150 years later, if they tried to violate the will, descendents would have a claim to the land (Calhouns, I guess. His granddaughter had four children with her cousin).


With the right set of judges

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:22 PM
 

anything is possible. Law, can be set adrift.

2021 white level member

The wording is unambiguous:

[1]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 2:40 PM
 

The name of this institution shall be the “Clemson Agricultural College of South Carolina.”

There is no loophole around that without breaking the will.


Re: The wording is unambiguous:


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 5:53 PM
 

If this is true get your popcorn.


Have they crucified Calhoun's descendants yet?


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 4:02 PM
 

What about all the other descendants of slave owners around the world?

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There's something in these hills.


Re: What becomes of Thomas G. Clemson...


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 12:50 PM
 

PHICLU said:

I don't think the University name will change. If it did the only logical choice (not already taken) would be SC A&M.





Ugh, that idea needs some work. That would make the University, SCAM.

2021 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg

It all has to go.

[2]
Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 1:12 PM
 

Every vestige of Western Civilization. It will never stop. When they target Winston Churchill, it tells me that it all has to go.

2021 white level member

I thought he was dead. Is a mob going to exhume the body?***


Posted: Jun 14, 2020, 5:33 PM
 



2021 white level member

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