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Rock Defender [53]
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What a total idiot!
Dec 17, 2012, 7:41 AM
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"We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?"
—Mike Huckabee on Sandy Hook
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CU Medallion [67829]
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Re: What a total idiot!- I heard Rudy Guiliani say the other
Dec 17, 2012, 7:50 AM
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anyone offering a simple solution to this is offering no solution. It is probably one of the more accurate things I've heard
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Oculus Spirit [83119]
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There are no simple solutions but there are some simple
Dec 17, 2012, 7:53 AM
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steps we can take to take care of parts of the big problem.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Controlling the inanimate items is nowhere near any
Dec 17, 2012, 8:08 AM
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reasonable solution. But, let us jerk the knee.
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Oculus Spirit [83119]
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Reasonable? Yea, and common sense.***
Dec 17, 2012, 9:28 AM
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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Re: There are no simple solutions but there are some simple
Dec 17, 2012, 8:56 PM
[ in reply to There are no simple solutions but there are some simple ] |
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Shut up Mike ands go back to huckstering your David Barton sham history videos. This is the saddest part of this whole issue. You have leftwingers taking advantage of this to scream for total gun control and rightwingers claiming it was caused because we took God out of school or as punishment for our sins! The fact is a nut case got some guns and killed a bunch of children, yeah it was bad because he had guns that carry lots of ammo, but you know something, Klebold and Harris at Columbine shot people because the propane BOMBS they had hidden in the cafeteria failed which would have killed possibly a thousand students and taken a whole wing off the school if they had worked, and they were made gas grill tanks. Hundreds were killed at Oklahoma City by a bomb made basically out of fertilizer. It doesn't take a gun to be a mass murderer.
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Oculus Spirit [83119]
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Did he realize this kid was home schooled?***
Dec 17, 2012, 7:54 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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I think Huckabee was implying that because they do not
Dec 17, 2012, 7:56 AM
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pray in that school, god turned his back on them and allowed the carnage.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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makes total sense
Dec 17, 2012, 8:29 AM
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#oppositeday
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Orange Blooded [2876]
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All-In [28802]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Bryan Fisher actually explicitly made the god tuns back
Dec 17, 2012, 11:41 AM
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argument. Granted he is nuttier than squirrel poop.
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All-In [28802]
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does anyone actually know or care who that is?
Dec 17, 2012, 11:51 AM
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I mean, besides the people who troll the internet looking for for ways to reaffirm their low opinion of religious people?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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How about James Dobson?
Dec 17, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Is he important? I hear Focus on the Family is sort of a big deal.
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All-In [28802]
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Re: How about James Dobson?
Dec 17, 2012, 12:23 PM
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Like I said, keep trawlin.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Who counts on the religious right?
Dec 17, 2012, 12:25 PM
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I need a scorecard.
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All-In [31894]
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Rooter [243]
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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He was not home schooled.
Dec 17, 2012, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to Did he realize this kid was home schooled?*** ] |
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He attended public school from elementary through high school, graduated early, and went to college at age 16. He was briefly removed from school to be "partially home schooled" by his mother, but he was NOT home-schooled.
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110%er [5156]
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One of my facebook friends posted this
Dec 17, 2012, 12:02 PM
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and of course thought it was the most self-evidently profound thing in the ultraverse.
Aside from the fact that God hasn't been "taken out of schools," how insulting is it to tell a parent that their six year-old is now dead because of an institution's alleged blasphemy.
Students in public schools can pray, read their Bibles, utilize school facilities for before or after school religious events, and evangelize-- the only caveat being that it cannot disrupt teaching at the school.
When I brought this up to my buddybook friend, he said "Yeah, but if a teacher tried to lead his class in prayer, he'd get in trouble."
Yes. You're right. Aren't you glad?
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All-In [31894]
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No, he's really not...when you listen to his comments....
Dec 17, 2012, 12:19 PM
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in total and his further explanation in total, it's hardly idiotic.
He's not saying it's some kind of vengeance, etc...
You may not agree with it, fine.
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110%er [5156]
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What was the point he was making?
Dec 17, 2012, 2:10 PM
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No flame, can't access video here at work.
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Rock Defender [53]
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If we would all cow tow to his imaginary sky daddy, bad
Dec 17, 2012, 2:23 PM
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things like this would not happen. Since we are all sinners, we cannot possibly live up to the imaginary sky daddy's standards so bad things will continue to happen.
It is a Catch .223
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All-In [31894]
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That's NOT what he is saying...but just for discussion's....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:15 PM
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sake...
If everyone DID "cow tow to his sky daddy"...these things WOULDN'T happen....right?
Let's assume "cow tow" = follow the 10 Commandments in this instance.
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110%er [5156]
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Depends which set of ten commandments you refer to...
Dec 17, 2012, 3:17 PM
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also depends on where you want to stop reading. God commanded some pretty awful things not long after the Ten Commandments.
Either way, I wish both sides of every political issue would S T F U re: this.
This isn't about God or Guns or anything other than a bad, sick person did a bad, sick thing.
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All-In [31894]
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Pro Tip...you have to read the WHOLE book :)***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:18 PM
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110%er [5156]
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Pro tip...
Dec 17, 2012, 3:21 PM
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I have.
Have you?
Why do Christians always assume that because an unbeliever disagrees, they're just uneducated?
I'll play.
Tell me the cultural/social/theological context that sufficiently rationalizes Yahweh's genocides in the OT?
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All-In [31894]
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I was giving you the benifit of the doubt....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:23 PM
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you cannot bring up Old Testament commands of God as relative to this discussion and have any reasonable level of understanding of Christianity.
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All-In [31894]
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*benefit****
Dec 17, 2012, 3:24 PM
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110%er [5156]
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You brought up the Ten Commandments.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to I was giving you the benifit of the doubt.... ] |
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Sorry, you can't pick and choose which 4,000 year old religious moral certitudes are relevant and which ones aren't.
Here to help.
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All-In [31894]
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Not what i'm doing....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:33 PM
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in following the teachings of Christ it is perfectly reasonable and consistent to believe in the 10 Commandments and the Christian New Covenant.
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110%er [5156]
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Which set?****
Dec 17, 2012, 3:35 PM
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All-In [31894]
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Which set of what?***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:40 PM
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110%er [5156]
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Exodus 20 vs. Exodus 34.*
Dec 17, 2012, 3:44 PM
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Just curious what moral guidelines you gathered from the important admonition not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
My point only being that the Ten commandments were not entirely moral precepts.
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All-In [31894]
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Exodus 20 is the 10 Commandments....
Dec 17, 2012, 4:01 PM
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Exodus 34 is generally regarded as the renewal of the covenant and is more of a narrative that a repeat of the original commandments.
If you just want to have a theological discussion, like arguing about the difference between Exodus 20 and Deut 5, then I'm not your guy.
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All-In [31894]
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Here's the transcript....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:10 PM
[ in reply to What was the point he was making? ] |
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Huckabee: Ultimately, you can take away every gun in America and somebody will use a gun. When somebody has an intent to do incredible damage, they’re going to find a way to do it.
People will want to pass new laws, but unless you change people’s hearts, they’re our transition maybe to the pastor side. This is a heart issue -- laws don’t change this kind of thing.
Cavuto: People will ask after tragedies like this, "How could God let this happen?"
Huckabee: Well, you know, it’s an interesting thing. When we ask why there is violence in our schools, but we’ve systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools have become a place for carnage because we’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability? That we’re not just going to have to be accountable to the police, if they catch us. But one day, we will stand in judgment before a holy God in judgement. If we don’t believe that, we don’t fear that.
God wasn't armed. He didn't go to the school, but God will be there in the form of a lot of people with hugs and with therapy and a whole lot of ways. ... Maybe we oughta let him in on the front and we wouldn't have to call him when it's all said and done on the back end.
Read more: http://www.upi.com/blog/2012/12/14/Mike-Huckabee-links-Newtown-shooting-to-lack-of-religion-in-schools/5121355523408/#ixzz2FLF4vhZk
And here are his second round of remarks:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/huckabee-clarifies-remarks-about-newtown-shooting-and-god-in-schools-86739/
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Rock Defender [53]
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How is that not idiotic? We need to fear the imaginary
Dec 17, 2012, 3:13 PM
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sky daddy in order not to do bad things?
geez.
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110%er [5156]
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All-In [31894]
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He's saying that we have taken the acceptance of....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:17 PM
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any higher power out of society...or working to do that... and that that can lead to warped perspectives and a loss of a moral compass as a society.
I don't agree with that 100% as to its direct linkage to this incident, but it's far from idiotic.
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Rock Defender [53]
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But what if your "higher authority" is a sociopathic bronze
Dec 17, 2012, 3:19 PM
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age deity with a jealous vengeful streak?
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All-In [31894]
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Ring me if you want to have a serious discussion***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:20 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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I am being serious.***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:21 PM
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All-In [31894]
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Really?***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:26 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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I believe with all my heart that your religious views are
Dec 17, 2012, 3:37 PM
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predicated on bronze age fables and myths, not on any divine wisdom handed down from on high.
People who quote scripture are, imho, using it to prop up their personal points of view.
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All-In [31894]
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Ok....good luck with that***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:41 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: It is better than anything I ever heard in Sunday School.***
Dec 18, 2012, 9:12 AM
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The next time your are in a critical situation and you don't know how you will endure, you may want to reconsider who you trust and what you believe.
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110%er [5156]
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No offense, but you've just diluted the
Dec 17, 2012, 3:19 PM
[ in reply to He's saying that we have taken the acceptance of.... ] |
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vitriol of his original statements.
And again, not even mentioning the fact that somehow our schools are godless bastions of hedonism and liberal sentiment is ridiculous.
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All-In [31894]
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Wait....somehow my paraphrasing is "diluting"....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:22 PM
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and your use of "godless bastions of hedonism and liberal sentiment" is spot-on? LOL
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110%er [5156]
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Clearly, tongue-in-cheek.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:26 PM
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The sentiment, however, is true.
You and Ole Huck are trying very diplomatically to say that we're reaping what we've sown re: God being taken out of schools.
What I'm saying is A) We haven't taken God out of schools and B) Even if we had, it's a morally atrocious, borderline retarded argument.
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All-In [31894]
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Did you even read my post where I said I didn't....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:29 PM
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100% agree with his statement and it's link to this shooting?
However, there is an extent to which we reap what we sow in just about anything.
In just about anything like this, something probably could have been done to keep the guy from doing the shooting or something that was done to eff him up along the way.
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All-In [40932]
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: What a total idiot!
Dec 17, 2012, 2:35 PM
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Did you see the entire interview. I agree with him. There was a timeframe when so many things changed. Flame away, but are a nation in trouble.
It is pretty clear that our values and morals are declining. I agree, our values suck from what they were a decade ago, and more so two and three decades ago. There probably exist a chart where you see our moral compass being tossed about the same time schools etc were in court for saying the pledge, etc. and God was taken out.
Anything is acceptable today ( Right or Wrong) and if you have the ACLU, or some organizations attorneys defending them.
My parents were alive and well they never heard of crap like we are dealing with today. They weren't saints, but I'm sure if they were alive and well today
they would disagree with 60% of how our values have trended.
You try to place them blame or cause on something and that's probably as
close as I can find today.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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They didn't hear about it?
Dec 17, 2012, 2:39 PM
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Is that because it didn't happen or because there wasn't 24 hour news coverage. I'm going with the news. People have been brutally killing each other in mass quantities since there have been enough people to kill en mass.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Mass murder back then had lower body counts.
Dec 17, 2012, 2:40 PM
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Couple of six shooters tops resulting in 4 or 5 dead.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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Not true. Largest school killing in the US happened
Dec 17, 2012, 3:32 PM
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in the early 1900s. I forget the date.
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110%er [5156]
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1927. Bath School.****
Dec 17, 2012, 3:35 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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There were also generally fewer people. There were also
Dec 17, 2012, 3:44 PM
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generally smaller schools.
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110%er [5156]
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Thank you.
Dec 17, 2012, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to They didn't hear about it? ] |
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This notion that we've somehow suddenly lost our moral compass, and that our alleged moral bankrupcy has led us into these dire straits it, well, wrong.
"What you got aint nothin' new. This country's hard on people. You can't stop whats comin.' They aint all waitin' on you. That's vanity."
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: Thank you.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:30 PM
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You haven't seen a morale decline in the last 25-30 years?
I sure have. Look at the laws we are voting on. Many issues weren't relevant years ago. If you have young children you know you can hardy watch anything with youngsters after 8pm because of all the sexual overtones and violence.
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110%er [6219]
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dec 17, 2012, 3:34 PM
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You rednecks are so dumb. But I have to say, you keep me entertained. So thanks for that!
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110%er [5156]
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You're right.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thank you. ] |
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Things were so much better when we could commit hate crimes and be patted on the back for it.
Or when those darn blacks couldn't vote.
Or when we could pay women .25 on the dollar of what we paid men.
Or when lynchings were a weekly event.
Or when we lied to our nation again and again and again throughout the Cold War re: the evil commies in places like Guatemala, et. Al.
All you're doing is engaging in the predictably nostalgic practice of reminiscing about "Good Old Days" that never existed.
150 years ago we killed ourselves by the hundreds of thousands in an argument over whether or not it was ok enslave our fellow man.
90 years ago we were bombing our school children.
70 years ago we started dropping nukes on civilians.
Things weren't bad then. But now, NOW damm*t, we have late night Showtime, and THAT shows how f****d we are.
Mercy.
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: You're right.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:49 PM
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Hey before you call me a redneck or anything else, let me say I'm probably not much older than you? We never had a problem with anyone bringing a weapon on school grounds or meeting on the town square.
Can you say that. Have you ever seen anyone shot or stabbed, or jumped.
Luckily, I haven't.
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110%er [5156]
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One, I didn't call you a redneck.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:55 PM
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Two-- the vast, vast majority of American students in public schools haven't witnessed violence at their school.
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: One, I didn't call you a redneck.
Dec 17, 2012, 4:08 PM
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Luckily my school didn't, and in fact none of them.
I would like to see the link on that and look at the timeframe for violence.
I'm sure incident rate is higher today than when I was in school.
You are a school teacher right? What curtails violence in schools? They hardly punish kids now, are we being to soft on our approach.
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: They didn't hear about it?
Dec 17, 2012, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to They didn't hear about it? ] |
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Are you kidding me... 25-30 years ago, people didn't flip out, dress Ninja and run into a school with the intent of killing as many folks as possible.
We have always had mentally ill killers, but we've seen a lot more copycat type killings since Columbine.
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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News and mail was slow, but you still got it!***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:33 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Brenda Ann Spencer 1979
Dec 17, 2012, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: They didn't hear about it? ] |
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Killed 2 injured 9 with a 22 in San Diego elementary school, said she did it because she didn't like Mondays.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Someone should write a song about that.***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:55 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Tyrone Spencer 1984
Dec 17, 2012, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Brenda Ann Spencer 1979 ] |
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Killed 2 injured 13 with a rifle and a shotgun at an elementary school in L.A.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Tyrone Mitchell not Spencer..***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:57 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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David and Dorris Young
Dec 17, 2012, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Brenda Ann Spencer 1979 ] |
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2 killed (David and Dorris) 79 injured when Dave and Dorris held an elementary school hostage. Gasoline bomb went off prematurely injuring Dorris, who Dave then shot, and then offed himself.
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110%er [6219]
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I might have called you a redneck
Dec 17, 2012, 4:05 PM
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But it might not have been you. Hard to keep track on this board, you know?
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110%er [5156]
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Re: Here to help
Dec 18, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Why do you think the incident and death toll picked up so much in the US during the mid 80's, 90's and continues today. School shootings seem to occur every year now, but before the 80's they didn't.
The chart indicates school homicides go back for a long time which
I'm not surprised by. But today shooters aren't satisfied with only taking out one or two people, they want to take out entire classrooms and or anyone they see.
Interesting, but deeply disturbing.
Fortunately neither of my graduating classes made that chart.
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110%er [5156]
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Where do you get the idea of God being stripped out of
Dec 17, 2012, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: What a total idiot! ] |
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schools? Students are given a remarkably wide latitude with their religious expression in school.
Students still say the pledge. It still has the word "God" in it.
Students can pray in school. They can read their Bible in school.
FCA and the like are most often held on campus before or after school.
In what ways has God been "removed" from public schools? School personnel saying prayers?
I'm sorry, but this notion of "the good old days" is ludicrous. The worst schoolhouse massacre in our nation's history was in 1927 in a rural community in Michigan.
Bad people exist. They always have and they always will.
I'm reminded of this scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uo94DSTzdc
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Rock Defender [53]
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He is referring to the right of evangelicals to shove their
Dec 17, 2012, 2:41 PM
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views down the throats of others.
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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This is why the Christian right is such a bunch of morons.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:07 PM
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The problem isn't that we "took God out of schools" but that we put schools in the hands of government. "putting God back in schools" not only is never going to happen with gubment schools, but wouldn't change anything for the better.
If government is a necessary evil, then putting anything in the hands of government means you are introducing evil to it.
I personally don't think government is necessary.
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All-In [31894]
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You don't think any form of government is neccessary?...
Dec 17, 2012, 3:12 PM
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necessary for what exactly?
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Somalia is your Promised Land.***
Dec 17, 2012, 3:23 PM
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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You make me literally sick.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:26 PM
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I've already addressed the Somalia strawman argument. Somalia is not a civilized society and it wasn't under Socialism either. It is ruled by the UN. It isn't even an anarchy.
I'd take a society like the "Wild West" over today's society any day.
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All-In [31894]
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"Go F*** myself"? Dang you're a tool....
Dec 17, 2012, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to I'm an abolitionist. ] |
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I asked you a reasonable question. You post me a touyube video and tell me to watch it or go F*** myself.
LOL
Do you think people take you seriously?
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All-TigerNet [10887]
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I said if you aren't genuinely intersted
Dec 17, 2012, 3:27 PM
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then GFY. I'm tired to explaining these things to people who are just trolling.
So, if you're genuinely interested I gave you resources to check out.
If not, and you're just trolling (which it appears you are) then GFY.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I hate it but you're right on this one.
Dec 17, 2012, 3:48 PM
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You can't take God out of anything. I'm not for having the heathens that run the educational system teaching anything about religion much less God.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Makes me wonder then if all of the kids were
Dec 17, 2012, 4:45 PM
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God fearing upstanding Christians. I guess not.
God had his vengeance on them.
But one would think an all knowing, all powerful God that knows these things are going to happen could stop them if he wished. Had a Mack truck pull out in front of the little psycho on his way to the school, and have him go head first into a windshield, leaving nothig but crushed skull and brain fragments.
God seems like a not-nice deity.
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