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YOUR BALANCE
An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?
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An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 9:37 AM

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18995190/michigan-standout-jake-butt-says-college-football-players-paid

So he is getting an education from a great university: $45,410 out of state (originally from Ohio)

An on campus meal plan: ~$6,000 (based on Michigan plans offered to off campus students)

A stipend for an apartment: ~$900/month = $10,800 (Which he could stay on campus if scraping by)

So as a 20 year old you are getting the equivalent of $62,210 a year and you think you should be paid more? Let the NFL start a D-league and lets see how well it pays without getting a degree in the process.

The NBA which has the highest average salary only offers level-A D-league players $26,000. The MLB which takes players right out of high school pays below minimum wage for minor league ball.

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null


Exactly. They get paid. *****


Mar 28, 2017, 9:39 AM



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They can buy an insurance policy if have NFL aspirations....***


Mar 28, 2017, 9:48 AM



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Re: They can buy an insurance policy if have NFL aspirations....***


Mar 28, 2017, 9:51 AM

Actually they no longer have to buy it. The school is allowed to buy it for them as part of an assistance program. Yet another benefit that players are allowed.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/acc/clemson-university/article96498222.html

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null


Re: They can buy an insurance policy if have NFL aspirations....***


Mar 28, 2017, 10:41 AM

Does Clemson buy this for our players? Just curious....I have not heard if we do.

I happen to agree that the players are already paid. Since they don't have to fork out the money for the education, food, board....they don't really understand how much money it really is. Many years after leaving Clemson, I am still paying off my student loans. I think I might have them paid off when I am 90 years old. ;)

I worry that if we start paying college students that it will start to be like the NFL and I will stop watching.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 9:51 AM

I've been preaching this forever! Wish I would have had the God given ability to play ball and get a free education with food room and board. Someone feels entitled..

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Re: Jake Butt related post sort of


Mar 28, 2017, 9:58 AM

Jake and Taco Charleton also of Mich and soon NFL went to rival high schools near our home. their teams played hoops in state playoffs a few weeks ago. We saw Taco and another NFL guy but didnt see Jake there. Of course we weren't on his teams side. Lastly Huggins was there recuiting a player and one guy has signed w UNC

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 9:58 AM

Do any of these players not realize there are thousands of kids that would take their spot on the roster for free.

Why would I pay someone to fix my roof if I knew someone else would do it for free.

Perhaps a semester in ECON 101 might do these kids some good.

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While I totally agree with this and don't think players


Mar 28, 2017, 10:20 AM

should or need to be paid more than the benefits they already receive, where your point breaks down is in the fact that players don't have any other options. You cannot play in the NFL until you have been out of high school for three years, so the only league out there where you can continue to play and develop your skills and strength is in college. If there was an outlet for players to play and train for pay straight out of high school, then there would no longer be ANY argument for pay for play as everyone playing college ball would be making a choice to forfeit pay to play.

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Re: While I totally agree with this and don't think players


Mar 28, 2017, 10:39 AM

I respectively disagree with the "there are no other options". The military is always taking new recruits, lots of labor jobs out there for 18 year olds, they can also play intramural football and also pay for school, food and housing like most of us.

Along with all that free stuff they get with their scholarship, they also get a platform to display their talent. Watson used that platform and turned it into $20 million.

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They will soon have another option.


Mar 28, 2017, 11:06 AM [ in reply to While I totally agree with this and don't think players ]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/01/11/pacific-pro-football-league-developmental-college-ed-mccaffrey/96416744/

But pay is only 50grand, versus getting an education with all the same perks, not to mention the college co-eds.

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Free education, tutors, room, board, medical, utilities,etc****


Mar 28, 2017, 11:53 AM [ in reply to Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough? ]



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As always, the rules are clear. If you didn't want


Mar 28, 2017, 9:58 AM

to abide by them, you are free to not accept a full ride to a prestigious school that costs $45k per year otherwise, accept thousands of dollars in room and board, get great meals, cheered on by 100,000 people several Saturdays a year while you get to feature your talents, get the best training facilities and coaches available, be a hero on a campus and to a state...just say "no thanks...I want to be able to get $100 off my tires if I want." It will be fine. Sure, Michigan will have to fill your spot, but that will take...ooooh....2 seconds?

Ignorant. Just ignorant.

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null


He's right. Players need a bigger share of the pie.


Mar 28, 2017, 10:03 AM

Coaches and Athletic Directors et al are making a fortune off these guys and the pie continues to grow larger and larger.

It's just a matter of time.

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You may be right that it will happen but you


Mar 28, 2017, 10:14 AM

are wrong that they are entitled to it. The deal is as offered, and as offered there isn't a D1 program in the country that has trouble filling their scholarship spots and usually then having people play for free as walk-ons. And that's because, despite the false "exploitation" narrative people like you and this player try to peddle, the deal they get is awesome.

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null


When you consider the size of the pie, it's obvious that the


Mar 28, 2017, 10:23 AM

top players are worth far more than they are getting. How much revenue did DeShaun Watson generate? Take guys like him out of the mix and see how many dollars you can bring in. Would season ticket demand be greater if we were as talented as The Citadel? If Brad Brownell is a multi-millionaire, what does that say about the value of KJ McDaniels? Jaron Blossomgame? Does Brad Brownell deserve the portion of the pie he gets? Are you up in arms about how much coaches make?


Take the emotion out of it and do the right thing for the players.

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I don't think I'm being emotional here. I'm being rational.


Mar 28, 2017, 10:30 AM

The size of the pie is irrelevant. The deal is the deal. If they don't like it they are welcome to go play in some other league or pay their own way through school or really do whatever they want. But none of them do because the university gives them such a great deal.

If it's about the players, someone should create a D League that features and pays them. People will flock to it, because people just want to see the best players. Problem solved.

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null


Your emotion is clouding your judgement. If you want to


Mar 28, 2017, 10:34 AM

make Clemson like The Citadel from a football or basketball perspective, then stay hard headed and watch the stars flock to the NFL Developmental league and see how much fun it is to drive 4 hours to Clemson to watch a bunch of scrubs play football.

My suggestion is we figure out a way to solve this problem and keep the best players coming to Clemson.

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Okay Chuck. Sounds like you've figured out why I'm wrong.


Mar 28, 2017, 10:40 AM

I wish I wasn't being so emotional, but oh well.

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null


I knew you would come around when presented with


Mar 28, 2017, 10:43 AM

a logical and rational argument devoid of emotion, but not selfishness. :)

Don't be a Clemson Football Killer. Clemson fans like you and me will be disappointed if you succeed.

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:)***


Mar 28, 2017, 10:55 AM



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null


Re: He's right. Players need a bigger share of the pie.


Mar 28, 2017, 10:20 AM [ in reply to He's right. Players need a bigger share of the pie. ]

But that pie is only available because of the fans of the Universities that generate the money. Put these players in an NFL D-league and the fans/money will not follow. These Universities have a responsibility to support 85 players, not just the 10 that could make an NFL d-league team. Universities make money off of students all the time through grants, graduate research, and teachers assistants which all could claim to be underpaid but are getting the opportunity to prepare for their career where they will make twice the money because the experience they were granted.

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null


You thinks those fans would show up if we sucked?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:27 AM

Did you go to games in the 90s and early 2000s?

How much would Brad Brownell be making if KJ McDaniels never played for Clemson?

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Re: You thinks those fans would show up if we sucked?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:42 AM

Take the top 10% of college athletes out and move them to the D-league. The 4* players become the best in college football and the Alabama, OSU, and now Clemson of the world still gets the best available and the fans still show up. College fans are passionate about the game because of the love for the universities and will still show up. Taking away the elite of college football because they are "entitled" does not affect if Clemson sucks in comparison to other universities.

Also that 10% would generate for less money in the D-league than they currently do because of the Universities.

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null


College football fans are entertainment clients. They will


Mar 28, 2017, 10:48 AM

not show up in the same numbers for a crappy product. THey will not pay the same prices for tickets and hotel rooms.

If you went to Clemson football games in the 90s and early 2000s you saw that with your own eyes and pocketbook.

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I agree the players deserve more, but i disagree with you


Mar 28, 2017, 11:00 AM

on this point. Attendance and interest suffers when the team is bad relative to other teams and loses a bunch of games. Removing the top players from CFB doesn't hurt Clemson relative to other programs. The overall CFB product will suffer a reduction in quality, but the best players will still go to the best programs. Clemson isn't going to go from winning 10-11 games a year to winning 4. We will still win 10-11 games a year, just with slightly lesser talent on the field.

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I don't think it will hurt Clemson relative to other teams


Mar 28, 2017, 11:15 AM

more than others. That was never asserted.

The quality of the product will suffer if we force the development of alternative league. Fans will find other outlets for their entertainment. People won't drive 4 hours to watch a team as talented as The Citadel play football. Some will, but far far fewer than they currently do. IPTAY contributions will fall. Coach Swinney will have to take a pay cut. Coach Brownell won't get a $3.5 million dollar buyout...

Why hold onto a stubborn position that will only serve to diminish the product on the field? Why not figure out a way to solve the problem that allows us to maintain the current college football system?

Seems emotionally short sighted to me.

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I'm sure the coots don't share your view of Citadel's talent***


Mar 28, 2017, 11:41 AM



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Disagree. College fans aren't that concerned with the


Mar 28, 2017, 12:12 PM [ in reply to I don't think it will hurt Clemson relative to other teams ]

overall quality of the sport. If they were, they would watch the NFL instead.

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Re: I don't think it will hurt Clemson relative to other teams


Mar 28, 2017, 12:43 PM [ in reply to I don't think it will hurt Clemson relative to other teams ]

Every economic bubble eventually burst. Look at ESPN. Soon college football will undergo a change for the better or detriment of student athletes. Alternative leagues would diminish the product but create an alternate means to the NFL if a player chooses not to attend school. Much like minor league baseball fans of the sport will turnout as a social event, but those that love College athletics will remain college football fans. It isn't a stubborn position but a loyalty to what makes college sports special.

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null


So if we suck and no one shows up


Mar 28, 2017, 12:11 PM [ in reply to You thinks those fans would show up if we sucked? ]

do the players then pay the university?

It's a 2-way street right?

Also, if DW4 generated all that revenue and according to you deserves "x" amount....how much does the 3rd string long snapper get? Backup punter?

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Should Brad Brownell pay the university back?


Mar 28, 2017, 12:25 PM

OK. Maybe that was a bad example. :) Do you have the same concern when a coaching staff fails?

Not having all of the answers at this moment is not a valid argument. The structure can and will have to be worked out.

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That is the biggest thing that should be capped


Mar 28, 2017, 10:29 AM [ in reply to He's right. Players need a bigger share of the pie. ]

The number one reason schools give that they can't pay the players is that they can't afford it. They say the revenues from the Football and Mens basketball team fund the rest of the program. Im fine with that...but you can't say that and then pay the football coach $5M.

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Not to mention the IRS would get involved.***


Mar 28, 2017, 10:04 AM



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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:13 AM

Hold on now...

You can't forgot the costs of coaching, strength and conditioning, nutrition, gear, facilities, and mopeds. Also add in need based grants that get pocketed once tuition is paid for.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:40 AM

Oops - I missed your comments before posting something similar.

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Boo Freakin Hoo - Go ask a Military Academy or ROTC


Mar 28, 2017, 10:16 AM

Scholarship recipient what they have to put on the line for their education. I did it and know the price, jihadists do more than just blow your knee out.

And yes the whole free world makes trillions of dollars on the blood sweat and lives of Americas service people, so the argument that athletes are taken advantage of doesn't fly.

Suck it up BUTTercup

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:21 AM

In short, no it isn't enough. Not when some guys in suits and ties are sitting in a box watching these kids play are making millions if not billions off of these kids. The time is coming for these kids to get paid, and they deserve every penny.

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Well, the real problem is the NFL needs a minor league


Mar 28, 2017, 10:22 AM

You never hear College baseball players talk about getting paid...its because they have the option to sign a professional contract and join the Minor leagues straight out of high school or accept a scholarship from a university and go the college route.

If these kids have zero interest in school, and want to try and be a professional athlete...there should be a route for that, and from a development standpoint it would be better for the NFL teams (but it would cost more). The NFL minor league teams wouldn't have the practice restrictions, the school distractions, and they could develop the kids in their offensive/defensive schemes for several years before they have to pay them big time NFL dollars.

Right now, the NFL and NBA are both using a free developmental system (the NCAA), and thats the real problem.

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and Title 9


Mar 28, 2017, 10:24 AM

would require that ALL athletes get paid, from football to wimmins diving

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Re: and Title 9


Mar 28, 2017, 10:30 AM

and I'm sure they would come up with some sort of reasonable way to divide that up, depending on the amount of money each program brought in for the school

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Including muff diving too? I would pay


Mar 28, 2017, 10:31 AM [ in reply to and Title 9 ]

To watch that

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yaaawn..the world is in transition


Mar 28, 2017, 10:30 AM

probably wont be an ncaa in a decade, yet college football aint going anywhere.

who knows what the future holds? but one suspects that the courts will require the ncaa and elite programs to share more of the billions they are raking in, with only (relative) peanuts going to the deshaun watsons of the world..there would be no college football w/o dw4's.

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GoTiguhs!!


Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:35 AM

As I am still paying for my two kids education, I can only wish that they had been given athletic scholarships. I'd be grinning like a brain damaged test rat.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:37 AM

I don't see anywhere in this thread where we discuss FREE TRAINING FOR THREE/FOUR/FIVE YEARS by some of the best and high;y-paid coaches in the country. Seriously? Are they ignoring that? You have to pay to go to college to be trained in the field that you prefer, and they are ignoring their free training? Geez. That's absurd. Not only do they get a degree in some field that they can earn a living at, but they get the additional training that the academic students do not get.

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They also get free tutoring and educational help.


Mar 28, 2017, 11:18 AM

The non-student athlete doesn't get all that special treatment to pass classes. And many of these athletes (and nothing against them) are not the smartest kids, without this academic help they wouldn't even be able to make it in a top 100 institution.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 1:27 PM [ in reply to Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough? ]

This is the dumbest argument. Do we live in a country based on capitalism. Just let the market sort it. Oh we can't because of regulations.

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Compensation


Mar 28, 2017, 10:38 AM

Young man you are living it, at least take the time to learn it.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 10:53 AM

Underrated post. But you can't argue with ignorance. Some ppl think they are owed the world. Let them take my student loans and all the time I had to work in college to get by day to day. You get free education, food and a place to stay. That is not including all the free apparel they get from the school.

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He's just having some psychological transference of emotions


Mar 28, 2017, 11:07 AM

because his daddy named him Butt.

Too bad he didn't grow up in a kommie country where they'd have forced him to be an athlete, giving him a crappy education, a crappy coffin for a dorm room, and crappy polluted food. And then sent him to the crappy gulag when he got injured.

Poor little snowflake.

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Forgot a lot of 'stuff'


Mar 28, 2017, 11:11 AM

You forgot a lot of stuff that has tremendous value: 1) Nutrional guidance/regiment, 2) Access to the finest workout facilities to build high school bodies into professional bodies, 3) Training guidance, 4) Academic counseling, 5) Tutoring 6) Life skills guidance 7) Scheduling

High school athletes, with rare exception, are prepared neither mentally, physically, or psychologically to complete at a professional level. Access to the various things that universities provide at no cost are absolutely essential in 99.99% in cases where high school athletes want to become highly paid professionals.

'No cost' doesn't equate to 'no value'.

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Plus


Mar 28, 2017, 3:36 PM

They get amazing mentors with the coaching staff we have. They get to play for the Tigers and get exposure. Some even go to grad school before they are out of there. Also, imagine being a Clemson football player on campus and around town compared to the average Joe. Then some of the stuff you stated with the housing, food, clothes, medical, utilities, tutors, access to great stud areas especially for athletes, a college degree or two, etc etc. They get paid very well..

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so you're for communism when it comes to college sports***


Mar 28, 2017, 11:24 AM



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Aren't they getting paid stipends now, to cover misc


Mar 28, 2017, 11:31 AM

expenses?

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Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Re: Aren't they getting paid stipends now, to cover misc


Mar 28, 2017, 3:18 PM

I think they get $388 a month for miscellaneous expenses.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 12:03 PM

The real issue isn't just about getting "paid". The issue is the the players are not able to profit off of their success the way the schools and coaches do. For the 40th guy on scholarship or the guy buried on the depth chart, the free education, stipend, etc are amazing deals. For the Cam Newtons, Deshaun Watsons, Jalen Roses & Chris Webbers of the world, whose merchandise is flying off the shelves, they are getting screwed over by the NCAA. I think you could fix this issue simply by letting players get paid royalties for their jersey sales and advertising deals. There is no fair way to directly pay the 85th guy on scholarship and the All-World superstar the same individual stipend. Royalties accomplish this. Its not fair to see your name and jerseys plastered everywhere and never get a dime from it while everyone else is allowed to trademark, brand and profit on your success.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 12:41 PM

It would make sense if their names were on the back of jerseys but u cannot buy a jersey from a retail store that sales a Clemson jersey with Watson's name on it. It is against the rules because they would have to pay him for promotional purposes. The only thing u can buy is a Clemson jersey with a number 4. In legal terms, that is not his jersey. Just a number.

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Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 1:49 PM [ in reply to Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough? ]

The NCAA provides a means for these players to make a name for themselves which in terms of benefits is of far greater value to the superstar than scholarship #85. Blame should not be placed on the universities but on NFL for not providing a means for players to become professionals immediately after high school.

Having said that it is up to the player if they would like to remove their amateur status and get paid. If that is the case they are more than welcome to sell jerseys, do TV commercials, and eat for free at their favorite establishments, but they will do so without the University. The NFL will also not allow them to play so my guess is they will regret the decision quickly.

Lastly, if we follow your model and pay royalties, it will be exploited by the big budget institutions and suddenly freshman will start selling thousands of jerseys just after they sign a LOI. Why? because it was promised to them in recruiting.

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null


Ok Mr Butts, if we pay you, can we also fire you?


Mar 28, 2017, 12:05 PM

Lets say you come in as a 5 star making 5 star money. You get hurt or just don't pan out, can we fire you for lack of productivity relative to your salary. Lets say that a player like Renfrow takes your position. Do we shift your salary to him?


Lets pay them and they like other professionals, they are responsible for their own housing, their own personal development that doesn't directly and positively impact their employer (like tutors, PR training, free exposure) and their own healthcare. In the NFL they are basically independent contractors. Its your job to show up at camp ready to play.


The day we start paying college players is the day that fans (customers) start holding the individual player accountable and not just the coaches. I don't think the players have really thought through what they are asking for.

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I'm sure you can't fire him for getting hurt just as


Mar 28, 2017, 12:14 PM

businesses can't fire an employee for getting injured on the job. There are labor laws that prevent that type of abuse.

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You just have to make reasonable accomodations


Mar 28, 2017, 12:23 PM

if you can't physically perform the job functions and there is no place else that your skill sets will work in the organization, you get let go. There aren't many ways to make accommodations for a top flight TE.

Injuries releases would be treated just as they are in all major professional sports, based on the terms of the contract.

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Re: Ok Mr Butts, if we pay you, can we also fire you?


Mar 28, 2017, 1:22 PM [ in reply to Ok Mr Butts, if we pay you, can we also fire you? ]

You mean the same way that kids are released from their scholarship every year?

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They could play semi-pro football and hope to


Mar 28, 2017, 12:56 PM

be drafted or get a free agent tryout or the NFL could start a minor league.

If they get paid, the NFL, not the colleges, should pay them.

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null


Re: An education, free food, and $900 in housing isn't enough?


Mar 28, 2017, 1:59 PM

Let's not forget the free clothes, 24/7 access to tutors, nutritionists, marketing, social media promotions, etc.

I don't understand how this is even a debate, honestly. The scholarship alone is enough to shut the other side of the story down. And what was the lowest salary in the NFL last year? $460,000? So you can go undrafted, make a practice squad and STILL make more than an anesthesiologist? Give me break.

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Liberals make everything a debate.***


Mar 28, 2017, 3:55 PM



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