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Replies: 44
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All-In [43989]
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So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 7:39 PM
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or because he’s tired of the B.S. with Bryant still being ahead of him in the pecking order?
I don’t think Johnson would have transferred if he were first or second at this point.
I can’t help but wonder if the staff’s loyalty to Bryant played a role. Remember last year at Syracuse? KB could barely walk and was mostly ineffective. Rather than pulling KB, the staff left him in and basically sent the message that KB on one leg was better than a full strength HJ. Then, after a concussion forced KB out, the staff played Cooper who missed wide open receivers by 15 yards. HJ still didn’t get to play.
Fast forward to the spring game, when KB was clearly the worst QB on the team. If the staff maintained to HJ that KB was still ahead of him, after KB looked awful and HJ looked great, perhaps that signaled to HJ that he needed to find a more reasonable situation.
I wish Hunter all the best. I’m honestly shocked that he left at this point. I feel that he could have helped us this year, and very well been the starter.
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Orange Blooded [3511]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 7:56 PM
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I would think,with the ""TALK"" that he had with Dabo this past week-in -- he asked many questions from his coach -- Dabo told him the truth ( what ever it was ) and he made his decision -- I sat next to a guy from Indiana ( that knew the Johnson family well ) at last years ACC CHAMPIONSHIP game --he has a daughter going to Clemson --said Hunter's dad had told him, HJ would transfer,if not the starter this year. I just took it as a grain of salt, but now,he has**
Coaches will put the best man on the field,that gives us the best chance of winning ______only game,I will ever doubt is the 4th quarter at Syracuse last year ( still can't grasp them not sending HJ in for the 4th quarter ?? )
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All-In [43989]
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Thanks for the info.
May 21, 2018, 8:00 PM
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It makes sense that Hunter decided to transfer if he didn’t think he would have a chance to be the starter. I’m just surprised if the coaches already knew that now. A lot can happen before August.
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Heisman Winner [111291]
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Re: Thanks for the info.
May 22, 2018, 1:05 AM
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coaches get paid way too much money to play favorites, they will start the guy that they believe has the best chance to win the most games. And just my opinion, Johnson was not a five star guy. He is a fine QB that throws a pretty ball, but at this point he does not look like a guy that can win 11 games in this system. Both KB and TL are. I think he was still a year away and believe he will have a great college career in a couple of years wherever he lands.
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110%er [7831]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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TL is that good ...
May 21, 2018, 7:58 PM
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I don’t think Kelly Bryant’s status has anything to do with Hunter Johnson transferring.
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All-In [43989]
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I think/hope you’re right.***
May 21, 2018, 8:22 PM
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 8:07 PM
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If Dabo was only letting the most senior player start HJ would be next in line for 2019 and 2020. If he transfers the earliest he could start is 2019.
I think he felt the pressure that TL might take over.
I wish Hunter the best. I always heard great things about the kid. I expect him to kill it in the BIG.
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All-In [43989]
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I’m not suggesting that Dabo is basing it on seniority alone.
May 21, 2018, 8:29 PM
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I do think that Dabo really really likes KB, and it seems that the coaches believe in him more than I would based on the fact that his ability to consistently throw medium- to long-range passes is shaky if non-existent.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I’m not suggesting that Dabo is basing it on seniority alone.
May 21, 2018, 11:17 PM
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It is because he has won games and has a command of the O. Now TL looked command in the spring game but HJ just doesn't have the same feel to me watching. With the way our D plays I would rather have a guy I can trust in KB than HJ who I have seen throw the ball up for grabs when a safety is over the top helping. Now all of them make mistakes no doubt and nobody knows what HJ could have done last year starting but I don't think it would have been as good of a season.
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All-In [43989]
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I suppose that is where we disagree. I don't trust Bryant.
May 21, 2018, 11:25 PM
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At least not when we are in a game when we HAVE to make throws to win. Bryant did enough to help us have a great season last year, but how many games do you truly feel that he won for us? I remember a few games where he played lights out, especially against Miami, but most of the time, I felt that he did just enough. He was mostly steady and predictable, and rarely had any major screw ups, but he also didn't seem to have the ability to take over a game - especially when his arm was needed.
If we are okay simply winning 10+ games, and likely another ACC championship, in 2018 then I bet KB can get us there. We have plenty of talent on both sides of that to happen. But I feel that a national championship is a very attainable goal for this team. When it comes to games against the top 5 or even top 10 teams, especially if they have a great defense, then I would be very concerned for Bryant to be our QB. Remember the Alabama game this past season? I do, and I don't expect our OL to be able to block them much better next time. We need a QB who can quickly make reads and get rid of the ball. That isn't Bryant, and I don't think that will ever be Bryant. It's not who he is.
We have to be able to pass the ball, not only because the best teams we play will require it of us, but because we have WAY too much talent on offense to rely on a zone read where our QB running the ball is our main weapon.
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Varsity [243]
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Re: I suppose that is where we disagree. I don't trust Bryant.
May 22, 2018, 5:00 AM
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Be careful, that post will earn you a lot of heat even though it is absolutely correct and I agree completely. It isn’t anyone hating on or a knock against Bryant, it is simply a fact. He simply does not have the skill set to be a passing QB; his reads are to slow, because he is a #### good runner he tends to tuck and run to quickly, and he simply doesn’t have the arm to keep another elite team honest on D so they can’t crowd the LOS to shut down the run and dare him to throw.
I honestly believe if KB is the starter this year, we will be undefeated going into the ACCCG and win it. I simply do not see a team on our schedule with the talent to beat the Tigers. I also believe we will suffer the same fate in the CFP when we meat a team with the defensive talent to shut down the run if our QB can’t keep them honest with his arm. Personally, if TL takes the starting job by the 4th game and is anywhere close to what we expect from him, I don’t see any team beating the Tigers this year.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I suppose that is where we disagree. I don't trust Bryant.
May 22, 2018, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to I suppose that is where we disagree. I don't trust Bryant. ] |
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Yes I remember the Bama game lol. We could have beaten Bama that night and I believe we will this year if we play them with KB or TL at qb. KB has and will continue to improve he was just off in the spring game. He and TL bring a different type of O for sure and TLs would be more down field passing ofcourse but I have seen KB make the throws downfield and I know he can lead us to victory. I don't know that a kid that threw 2 ints in his high school all star game can lead us back to the playoffs. I sure hope so as he was amazing in high school and he has the tools but we don't know how he will do. He looked great in the spring game. I trust KB and if we made a couple more plays or didn't make a mistake we could have beaten Bama. I want the best man to win and I believe we can win it all with either one.
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Legend [17520]
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Judge, this has been coming since Feb
May 21, 2018, 8:26 PM
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when Dabo stated HL was a much more ready-for-action QB than DW was as a freshman. At that point, I knew HJ was gone. Agree with you that Clemson lost a good one, and HJ could have been a very capable QB last year if coached up and given a shot at #1. That did not happen IMHO because true frosh HJ had the throwing skills but lacked the maturity, confidence and player backing of junior KB. And yes, HJ will grow up and become an NFL QB in a few years.
TL is a different cat. He already has maturity as a leader, unlimited confidence, and is still respectful. He is not intimidated by KB, any player, or any coach. He 100% expects to win the job some time this year, and he will. And he is head and shoulders in talent above KB which is why KB tanked at the spring game. This is not a criticism; it is a fact. TL throws like Rodgers, and Jeff Scott stated in March that "TL is fearless". The players see the ropes that TL is throwing in practice, and they recognize the talent gulf between TL and KB. As Dabo has said on many occasions in evaluating Clemson player talent -- everything counts. Dabo knows the Tigers are favored to win out in 2018, and he is "all-in" for playing the QB that gives Clemson and this ridiculous Defense the very best shot at a natl championship season.
As for HJ, he had no choice but to leave and sit out this year; now he will have three seasons to build his skill sets leading a team likely in Big 10. He made the right call, and I will be pulling for him. Go Tigers!
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All-In [43989]
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Great post, and I am choosing to believe that you are right about the coaches.
May 21, 2018, 8:32 PM
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There is no denying the talent of Lawrence. It will be interesting if he is already the clear cut #1 guy, as a true freshman, in May. Based on his reputation coming in, it wouldn’t be surprising from a talent perspective. I’ve just wondered all along if the coaches would be more hesitant to give him the keys.
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: Judge, this has been coming since Feb
May 22, 2018, 7:19 AM
[ in reply to Judge, this has been coming since Feb ] |
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Best take I have seen in this thread SM2. The only thing I disagree with is the assumption that HJ will be a shoe in NFL caliber QB. He very well may be but we didn't see enough to conclude quite that. We did IMO see enough to conclude he was no DW4 type talent which it seems we again may have in TL. HJ showed the gutsy, gun slinger type mentality needed to do damage in a passing offense such as ours. BUT as CMoney noted above, he did have a tendency to throw into double coverage which would have bitten him more had he started games and had more attempts. Wish HJ the best and certainly think he will do well. How well is going to be interesting to watch.
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All-Conference [414]
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Great assessment
May 22, 2018, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Judge, this has been coming since Feb ] |
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I know the spring game was one instance of seeing all the players, but the understanding of the system and poise that TL showed during his snaps was quite impressive and unusual for a QB who has only been on campus for 4 months. After I saw that I had a gut feeling he was going to push for the starting job sooner than later, and there would be some QB attrition.
As for HJ I hope he is very successful, but we have not seen enough of him to determine if he really is NFL caliber or not at this point. So it will be interesting to follow the rest of his college career to see how he develops.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Yep, that's just how it is.***
May 21, 2018, 8:31 PM
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CU Guru [1845]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 8:34 PM
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Kelly won us the ACC and took us to the playoffs. And all the predictions here was that we were going to win the natty again by beating Bama and then UGA/Choklahoma.
If we had beat Bama, none of this would even be discussed. But one loss to the eventual national champ, and here we are.
And this is nothing like the 3 and out Stoudt situation where the staff was trying to be loyal. Kelly has shown that he can gash teams with his legs and hit throws.
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MVP [516]
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We are not knocking KB. It’s just that with
May 21, 2018, 8:44 PM
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TL’s ability to throw, he makes the team stronger offensively. KB is s great athlete and a solid qb but TL is nfl caliber and KB most likely isn’t as a qb. Maybe as something else. At least as it stands today. This could all change but as of now, everyone can see it. We all love KB but TL takes the O to another level.
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Hall of Famer [24162]
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Tigermaul = marlborocountycoot
May 21, 2018, 10:49 PM
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All-In [43989]
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Yes, we accomplished a lot last year.
May 21, 2018, 8:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good ] |
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I think it was clear though that KB was not able to consistently make throws against an elite defense like Alabama. Granted, that loss wasn’t completely on him, as our OL was pretty pathetic in that game. Still, we have way too much talent on offense to not have a QB who can spread the ball around to talented players.
Don’t you think that it would be a shame to not be able to take advantage of our super talented WRs?
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 9:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good ] |
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Have to disagree with you on the point that if kb had beat bama etc unless he beat them making the throws he hadn’t made all year., then maybe it would have been different.
Anything kb did last year was no surprise to me. The huge surprise for me last year was how dominant our defense was and how they could win games for us. Didn’t have the missed assignments they had in 17.
Based on the way our defense played last year, had hj been given the keys from day one he had the luxury to win games while learning the offense. Then imo I think we’d at least had a better chance at beating bama and HJ would have been the defacto qb this year and not transfered.
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Orange Blooded [3371]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 9:32 PM
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I agree with everything that has been said. Dabo is an idiot who is willing to tear down the dynasty he has built and give up a job that pays millions of dollars a year to be loyal to the most senior player at a position.
He cannot evaluate talent and choose the correct QB to play a game.
Why don't we fire him and find someone who will play the QB that we all know is best after watching one scrimmage. We can tell without a doubt that whoever is sitting on the bench is better than the QB that went 12-2, won the ACC Championship and played Alabama in the NC playoffs.
That's why we should all go stand in front of The Clemson Presidents house and demand we hire someone like Tommy West, Tommy Bowden, Ken Hatfield or better yet Danny Ford.
Wake up this is as good as it has ever been, the best talent AND the best coaching staff EVER IN CLEMSON HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
So quit crying over your player not starting or because a very talented QB left for playing time elsewhere and start supporting what decisions THE BEST COACHING STAFF in America!!!!
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110%er [6280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good ] |
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So what games did just our D win for us last year? Auburn I know you will throw out there but what else? Our D won us the game against Auburn the year before that if you can't remember that long ago.
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110%er [5280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:24 PM
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Miami....ACC Championship.... Or do you think you needed Bryant to score more than 3 points? Any QB in the roster gets in FG range... Kick... Repeat... Win. Bryant had it easy in that game with the defense holding Miami scoreless until the last 4 minutes of the game... No pressure. All they had to do was manage the game/turnovers... And make at least 4 points. D did the rest. We didn't have to have 38 points to win that one.. Just needed 4.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:33 PM
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He was implying our D carried our O so how is the Miami game fit that bill when we scored 38? Our D and O won that game. The D could have gave up 5 TDs and we still would have won as well as what you said.
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110%er [5280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:35 PM
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Because the D kept them to 0, deflating them. So you think 38 would have been the score if our D looked like it did vs Syracuse??... Backing our field position up more often, keeping our offense off the field for longer? You know, that does affect the time of possession and field position... And conversely that score. Best thing Kelly did in that game was manage the turnovers... The thing that got Miami there in the first place. His longest yard throw in that game was only 27 yards... Only 1 of about 3 that went over 20. He only had 7 yards rushing.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:39 PM
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It is a team game. Offense and defense along with special teams wins. I believe you need some good from all phases to win a football game. KB was obviously the best man for the job last year.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good ] |
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Please do not explain the game to me I have played and watched football since I was 3 years old I know understand game management and field position buddy.
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Varsity [243]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 22, 2018, 5:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good ] |
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Not true at all. Most who don’t have such darkly tinted glasses, can see the truth, and are willing to state it were saying it well before the CFP. It was quite obvious during the 5 game streak when only 2 of almost 30 passes longer than 12/13 yards were completions. That streak was bad enough that the announcers were even talking about his struggles with the deeper throws during either the FSU or Citadel game.
It was also quite obvious during all the games when the majority of the passes over 15 yards, the receiver either had to wait on or come back for the ball to try and catch it resulting in completions that should have been an easy walk in TD with a properly thrown ball result in an immediate tackle or allowing the DB to catch up and break up the pass.
As I have said before, I believe we would win the ACC again this year with Bryant as the QB but I also believe we would lose in the CFP again in a fashion similar to last year.
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CU Guru [1558]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 22, 2018, 7:05 AM
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Agree 100%
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Orange Blooded [2403]
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How can we forget . . .
May 21, 2018, 10:32 PM
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HJ should have been in the game. Big difference that could have made, for last year and for this year. Think about it . .
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Hall of Famer [24162]
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Tell 'em coot
May 21, 2018, 10:48 PM
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CU Medallion [58367]
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I think that because HJ was the #1 QB coming out of HS
May 21, 2018, 10:48 PM
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and had 5-Stars and all of that, we WANTED very badly for him to be THAT good. The fact that he may not have been, or at least may not have been yet, was something many simply could not accept. He had to be better than Zerrick Cooper, or an injured KB, right? The fact may just be that he was not. He may turn out to be, and in fact I think he would have been a very good QB for us in a different situation, at some point, and think he still will be for somebody. I just don't think he was quite ready; I trust Dabo and Streeter and Scott and Elliott on that. I think it is that simple, and has absolutely zero to do with loyalty to KB or reluctance to play a freshman or any other nonsense. He knows he's good enough to be a star at most schools and is too competitive to risk riding the pine here. I think he knew he'd have at best a 33.3% chance to start here, and I suspect he knew that was going to be a battle. I don't blame him, I don't blame Dabo, and I don't blame anybody; it's just the way it worked out.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: I think that because HJ was the #1 QB coming out of HS
May 21, 2018, 11:42 PM
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Logic ^^^
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 21, 2018, 11:13 PM
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Hunter Johnson is not better than Kelly Bryant. Yes he had a better spring game where the QBs were not live.
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All-In [43989]
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How do you know that he isn't better?
May 21, 2018, 11:18 PM
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We haven't really gotten to see him play. I agree that he wasn't better than Bryant last year, but I sure do wish we could've gotten him more playing time, even in mop-up duty. I do believe that Hunter has a higher ceiling than Bryant does, but we will never know whether that potential could've been realized at Clemson.
I certainly trust the coaches to play the best player, but it seems silly that we wasted his talent in a way last year by playing Zerrick Cooper when we could've been playing Hunter Johnson.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: How do you know that he isn't better?
May 22, 2018, 6:26 PM
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From what I have seen he isn't in my opinion. I do think after Cooper struggled we should have given HJ a chance at Cuse. Either way it is all water under the bridge. All that matters now is who the better qb on our team is now. No doubt TL has a more talented arm but KB is a proven winner that can run, throw, and knows the O much better one would assume. If they both play like the spring game no doubt TL should be the guy but who knows. I have seen KB play great and I have seen TL play bad in his all star game.
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CU Guru [1485]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 22, 2018, 2:04 AM
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At the Syracuse game we arrived early and sat behind the Clemson bench. KB was limping badly while simply running the sideline. He should never have played. ZC was ineffective. HJ could have given us the spark we needed. Bottomline, we were outcoached CD on both offense and defense.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 22, 2018, 6:27 PM
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Agreed but he was dropping dimes on the first drive.
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Standout [305]
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Re: So do we think Johnson transferred because TL is that good
May 22, 2018, 7:46 AM
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I'm going with the B.S. that KB is still ahead of him and maybe TL is too.
If KB left the HJ would have stayed.
Looks like Dabo hasn't changed
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All-In [27178]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16024
Joined: 10/13/08
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Re: Yes and no.
May 22, 2018, 11:30 AM
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From what I heard, he was pretty upfront with the staff that if he didn't end up #1 heading into summer strength program and fall practice he was good as gone.
The fact that TL is a generational talent---yes, he's that good---was pretty much the icing on the cake.
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