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Topic: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...
Replies: 55   Last Post: Nov 19, 2019 5:54 PM by: haynous®
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Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[172]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:06 AM
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...and the announcers could not shut up about it. If there were fewer than 25 different mentions of Wake's missing receivers - and the massive impact it was having on the game - then I would be shocked. The camera kept panning to the injured dudes on the sideline and speculating on when and if they'd be back. The announcers kept breaking down where their replacements were trying but ultimately falling short. And the result spoke for itself: Wake netted 3 total points, and 105 - repeat, 105! - total yards of offense. The entire game. Clemson had that halfway through the first quarter.

There was not one mention - not one! - that the same was true of Clemson. Ross and Rogers both left the game early, and Ross was #1 on Clemson's team in receptions (43), Rogers was third (25), and their replacements were so seamless that the announcers never once commented that either player was even missing.

What happened? Well, Diondre Overton slid over to his (natural) boundary receiver spot and caught 4 balls for 52 yards, Higgins slid over to the slot - where he played extensively as a freshman because he was skinny then and couldn't get off the press - and caught 4 balls for 64 yards and 3 TD's abusing safeties (put a pin in that, because Clemson will come back to it at some point), and the true froshes Clemson's been incubating all year - Ladson and Ngata - came in and played extensively, netting another 4 balls for 72 yards and 2 TD's between them as well.

This is where all those fancy maffs stats like S&P+ and ESPN's Power Index all fall short: they're missing a critical data field, and that's the number of players that have played in critical snaps over the course of a year where the game was in doubt. We've seen Overton, Ladson, and Ngata flash stuff all year, mixing good plays with bad plays...but Dabo kept playing them, kept developing them, and in a must-have November game with key starters missing, the backups delivered - huge, to the tune of 8 catches for 124 yards and 2 TD's, and again, they performed so well barely anyone even noticed Clemson was missing two elite starters.

Going into the playoffs, Clemson's going to have no less than 6 impactful receivers that Clemson can deal the ball to with confidence.

Pan later into the game, I also saw plenty of other stuff - true frosh TE Davis Allen getting extensive snaps, Darien Rencher flashing a developed skillset - he picked up blocks, caught the ball effectively out of the backfield, and repeatedly showed a nose for the first-down marker and an ability to run behind his blocks, pick his hole, and stick his foot in the ground...and then in came the true froshes, Melusi and Dukes, picking up valuable reps of their own...running behind a second set of offensive linemen. And I think Venables played 40 guys on defense. I'm pretty sure I saw the tuba player from the band in on a sack late in the fourth.

People point to the players Clemson has recruited, but they miss the point. Talent is pointless if you don't play it...and Dabo's not just extracting value from high-end guys like Ladson and Ngata, he's also extracting value from former walk-ons like Darien Rencher and former and current developmental guys (like Overton, who came in very raw!) and Michael Dukes and Ruke Orhorhoro...no, critics, those guys were not 5-star all-World guys with 50 offers apiece. But they belong, talentwise, and given love and snaps, they'll develop. If you are willing to play them and coach them up.

And that's Clemson's biggest edge, and why Clemson always starts slow in September...and looks like this in November and December. Player development...and, closely related to that - attrition.

Clemson could replace its wounded starters. Wake Forest could not.

We saw the same thing, incidentally, with Notre Dame last year, when they lost CB Bryce Love and couldn't replace him, and the cameras kept pointing to the injured Love peddling wanly on his warmup bike and Brian Kelly flailing on the sidelines afterward and pontificating about what a different game it would have been had that injury not occurred. Whereas nobody even noticed Dexter Lawrence was missing for Clemson because Huggy Bear stepped in and dominated in his stead, and Dabo Swinney said not a word.

We see it and we see it and we see it some more. And it always comes back to the simple question: are you willing to put in the hard work to develop your guys, and live with their mistakes in September in order to be truly great when it matters: November, December, and hopefully...January?

Because Dabo is.


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[6]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:18 AM
    Reply

Outstanding post .
POTW !

Q , I would meekly add that Dabo's player development game is on fleek and we be jammin .

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DB23


Excellent take Q***

[4]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:25 AM
    Reply



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Re: Q? But I thought Q was a conspiracy theory...******


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 7:07 PM
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this should be published on ESPN and SI -

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:39 AM
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But I hope it isn't - just a soon we just sat on the secret sauce recipe...

Thanks Q - as always - seriously the best read of the day.

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Quozzel being Quozzel

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:42 AM
    Reply

Thanks.


Also the "fumble" was not a fumble and they could not let that drop. Similar play we had vs ND last year in the playoffs. Forward progress had stopped and a review (if they could have done it) would have verified that.

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Re: Quozzel being Quozzel

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:42 PM
    Reply

Forward progress is one part of the game that is causing injuries... Officials are allowing the play to last way too long ,. allowing "stripping" and headhunting...

2019 white level member

Excellent post, Q.

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:45 AM
    Reply

And that's exactly the point of my response to bretfsu a couple of weeks ago. Dabo develops his players and the team improves over the course of the year. Willie Taggart had the talent but couldn't develop it.

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Outstanding post!***

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:46 AM
    Reply



2019 white level member

*This post is pending approval from the TaterNet Hall Monitors: Francis Marion, GWPTiger, classof1994, and cutigerbob.


Geez..wish i had a "Q" in my name!

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 11:54 AM
    Reply

I'd be something!

LOL

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To All CLEMSON TiGERS..Sending you Bright Light from the Carolina Coast and hoping you get to witness a huge Orange sunset tonight. Go Tigers!


Re: Geez..wish i had a "Q" in my name!

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:29 PM
    Reply

You should have made QUILTS instead of light bulbs.

LOL - JK. :)


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:28 PM
    Reply

Well stated post. Too bad the pundits close their ears and eyes to what CLEMSON has built.

BTW: One of our backups (Overton) caught THREE TD PASSES 2 or 3 games ago. 3 freaking passes in one game, as a backup. Dang man. How good does a team need to be to impress those clowns?


Best post I've read in...

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:28 PM
    Reply

forever! Thank you, sir.

2019 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:32 PM
    Reply

You're so worked up you missed them say Amari and Ross wouldn't be back...lay off the caffeine


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:36 PM
    Reply

That was hardly the main point.

2019 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Clueless, pointless post.***

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:48 PM
    Reply



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I wish I could take my TU away!! Shame on me for not

[2]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 7:37 AM
    Reply

reading. A great post and you have to be a butt about it.

2019 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[4]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:38 PM
    Reply

Please tweet this to ESPN and the committee. Outstanding. Thanks for taking the time to articulate a dynamic no other team can claim.

2019 orange level member

Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:45 PM
    Reply

Shhhhhhhh! Secrets should be secret...

2019 white level member

^^^^^NAILED IT^^^^^

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:45 PM
    Reply

Perfectly stated! +1


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:49 PM
    Reply

+1
Go Tigers! ??

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Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[2]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:54 PM
    Reply

POTY


What Kid Touching Coot TDed This??***

[6]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 12:58 PM
    Reply



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

that's a good question. I wonder why the site shows

[4]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 2:17 PM
    Reply

the people who thumbs-up a post but not the ones who thumbs-down? Seems kinda snowflakish. Has that question ever been answered? Showing who does the thumbs-down would reduce the silly ones like the one in the OP's post.


Re: that's a good question. I wonder why the site shows

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 3:46 PM
    Reply

I never noticed that...just thought I was always the first one to TD.


your tiger pulse says you are 100% TU and 0% TD***

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 3:48 PM
    Reply



2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg


I'd like to point out that TUs


Posted: Nov 19, 2019 5:54 PM
    Reply

although by definition have a "point" are rather pointless.

Not as pointless as TDs however ... so there must be a scale of some kind. But we really shouldn't get hung up on them. Time spent wondering who's responsible is truly lost.

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Re: What Kid Touching Coot TDed This??***

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 10:23 AM
    Reply

Probably one that the only position they know about in FB, is the QB, and no other, or it was a trolling coot getting jealous of hearing us brag about our success and their total collapse and failure that never deserved an invite to the SEC, or did they beg to get in like their HC begged to be HC at coot U!!!

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alright alright alright!***

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 2:05 PM
    Reply




Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 4:13 PM
    Reply

Outstanding summary - quozzel !! Only question I have is - did the tuba player use his tuba on the sack ?? -<img border=">

2019 purple level member

Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[3]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 1:38 AM
    Reply

No, he just huffed and he puffed, and he blew him down!!!

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

We're awesome but Wake Forest also has a terrible

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 4:40 PM
    Reply

Defense


Well said!***

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 4:50 PM
    Reply



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It's a good thing their receiverrs didn't play

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 7:33 PM
    Reply

they would've had a very bad game.


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[5]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 8:01 PM
    Reply

As always, an excellent analysis. T might add, not only was Wake Forest missing their No. 1 and 3 receivers, the QB was missing all of his other targets due to our defense.

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That insight is outstanding and only comes from one who...

[5]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 8:01 PM
    Reply

keeps up with Clemson football. Talking heads and other AP voters along with coaches from other schools have no time for such in depth analytics.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Always appreciate your perspective, but frankly this may be one of your best posts ever.

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 8:10 PM
    Reply

As far as I’m aware this simply hasn’t been expressed by anyone in the national sports media. I don’t think it’s conspiracy, it’s just lack of awareness, and it’s no more important than at THIS TIME!

THIS TIME during the course of the season where it materially shows!

To many it just looks like a magic trick. It’s not, it’s dedication to a model of sustainability, and by the way if you’re a player for Clemson, it’s also MORE FUN! A lot more fun when you get to contribute to the winning.

Thank again Quiz. Just brilliant-

2019 purple level member

Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 8:23 PM
    Reply

Excellent analysis.

2019 white level member

Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[1]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 8:59 PM
    Reply

Clemson has no "RUDYS" because Dabo plays everybody that is ready more than one play!

2019 purple level member

I want to meet the DA...

[3]
Posted: Nov 17, 2019 8:57 PM
    Reply

Who downvoted this...


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 1:29 AM
    Reply

quozzell - as long as one of MY posts, only - GOOD! Thanks for the great insight.

2019 orange level member


Well done!***

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 2:29 AM
    Reply



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Awesome post as usual quozzel! +1***

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 7:12 AM
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My vote for Post of the Year! You hit the nail on the head.

[2]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 7:31 AM
    Reply

Our 2's and 3's can start for a lot of teams.

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Re: My vote for Post of the Year! You hit the nail on the head.

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 10:09 AM
    Reply

Yes they can, and I also believe that with our 1st team, Chase Brice could start and win any game on our schedule, but he may have to drop a few pounds bc he looks to have put some pounds on around his waist line that has him with a little belly. Do anybody disagree that he could start and go undefeated. And heck no he ain't the QB that TL is, but he is a QB that could start for any team that we play against, and/or most of whom we don't play!!! What I'm saying is, we have a backup that can win if Trevor was to go down for any reason!!!

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Re: My vote for Post of the Year! You hit the nail on the head.

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 12:41 PM
    Reply

I agree - allorange .... and as I’ve said many times .... Chase Brice is the best backup QB I have ever seen in over a half century watching college football!! -<img border=">

2019 purple level member

That they can - Myfav.... and in a lot of cases .....

[1]
Posted: Nov 18, 2019 12:43 PM
    Reply

.... there is not much drop off between the 1’s and 2’s !! -<img border=">

2019 purple level member

I have to admit that I have become somewhat of a


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 7:46 AM
    Reply

quozzel fanboy because you post such high quality and insightful material. Awesome post, and great job.

This post should be required reading for the folks on here who are hemming and hawing at the beginning of each the season when the team looks rusty and plays close games such as the one against UNC to remind them that things will look significantly different later in the season.

2019 white level member

Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 10:11 AM
    Reply

Terrific post, POTW, tossed a TU on it, you couldn't be more correct about the amazing depth that Dabo has built. It will pay HUGE dividends just like it did last year. I think people are forgetting that Big Dex didn't play in the playoffs because of how well Pickney and Huggins played. We will be better equipped to handle adversity than any other team in the playoffs.

But in the announcers' defense, they did mention Ross and Amari being out at least once on the second half opening kickoff. Still, didn't make nearly as big a deal out of it as they should have.

2019 white level member

Most intelligent poast I have seen on the TNet this year.


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 10:13 AM
    Reply

TU to you, sir.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I love this post..well done.. but


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 10:48 AM
    Reply

I'm really tired of hearing about the national media. Maybe because I'm in the media and I understand it better than most on this board... but as a fan, I'm tired of it as well. Everyone knows there's a bias TOWARDS the SEC. But that doesn't mean they are "against" Clemson. It's just that you can't lean to one side and justifiably coddle the the other side at the same time. So, we'll always get talked down to, spoken poorly about and unfairly compared to our worst moments. It's how it works.

Doesn't make it right, but that's how it is... reading about it over and over and over is like standing outside and yelling "the sky is blue, the sky is blue." It is what it is.

The heck with those talking heads. They've never had any affect on our team but to fuel our drive and passion to prove them wrong... so I say... keep it up, talking heads. Keep eating crow. Keep doubting, diminishing, and ignoring the facts. It's only making us better.

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..:: ru4god2 ::..


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 10:52 AM
    Reply

Wouldn't have mattered if they had been there.


Re: Wake Forest was missing their #1 and #3 receivers...


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 11:07 AM
    Reply

I agree that there was a LOT of mention about Wake Forest missing their two key receivers. It is also true that the Tigers were missing two of their best receivers. But just to be fair, the effect felt by a team, because of the missing players, depends a LOT on who you are playing.

The Tigers were not hurt against Wake Forest because Ross and Rogers were missing. But won't our performance be affected if our two best receivers (Higgins and Ross) could not play against LSU or Ohio State?

I realize that there is a big media bias since the Tigers may not be able to create the same ratings as an SEC team or a Big Ten team etc. But, I think that sometimes we over react to the media.

Anyway, great post as always.


Excellent post and well stated!


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 12:50 PM
    Reply

I believe it was NDs Julian Love who got injured last year. Bryce Love was the RB for Stanford who is now on the Redskins I believe.

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Been reading your stuff for a long time, and this may be the


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 1:03 PM
    Reply

the best one. The national guys should read this and take notes, both on Clemson and how to freakin' write in the first place.


The fact remains,


Posted: Nov 18, 2019 2:39 PM
    Reply

Wake was at a disadvantage because the two receivers were not able to play. Few teams in the country have as talented a group of backup players as the Tigers have. It’s all about recruiting and player development and no one does that better than Dabo and his excellent staff. Quite honestly, the two missing players would not have altered the game much if they had played every snap. If every player hurt for the NCSU game had played every snap the results would have been the same. Bottom line, few, if any, team is strong and deep enough to challenge this offense AND defense.


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