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Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
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Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 4:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [3823]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 4:26 PM
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Disappointed that building name changes are off the table from the start. If it's the right thing to do, the BOT could petition the legislature. Seems like they are choosing not to lead on this issue and instead hiding behind the legislature in a cowardly manner.
Also, what is the criteria used to define "historical"? Is the 1950s (Tillman) more historical than the 1880s (Old Main)?
We should have an accurate history. Tillman is a big part of it and should be prominent in the written annals for Clemson history. But it is inappropriate to honor a vile racist murder with a building name.
Write about him, talk about him, debate about him....sure. Honor him...never.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 4:36 PM
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> Disappointed that building name changes are off the
> table from the start. If it's the right thing to do,
> the BOT could petition the legislature. Seems like
> they are choosing not to lead on this issue and
> instead hiding behind the legislature in a cowardly
> manner.
>
> Also, what is the criteria used to define
> "historical"? Is the 1950s (Tillman) more historical
> than the 1880s (Old Main)?
>
> We should have an accurate history. Tillman is a big
> part of it and should be prominent in the written
> annals for Clemson history. But it is inappropriate
> to honor a vile racist murder with a building name.
>
>
> Write about him, talk about him, debate about
> him....sure. Honor him...never.
I don't want us honoring a racist person, but the building itself has become historical and is recognized by the name Tillman and is beyond the person. Countless more people know of the name "Tillman" referring to the historical building on Clemson's campus than of the racist "Tillman" that it was named for. I believe that his statue and any info about him should be stripped from this campus entirely. But the building has earned its reputation without the connection to that man.
Still, I wouldn't be mad or upset or surprised if they changed the name. Maybe "Dabo Hall". Haha. In the end, it's just a name. That building doesn't perform any racist actions and changing the name wouldn't make it any less or any more racist. It's just a building. So if changing its name will quench the fire and stop the division between Clemson fans, then I'm for it. But I'm not sure it'll solve anything.
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Orange Blooded [3823]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 4:41 PM
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I'll sign the petition right away for Dabo Hall!
Yes, the building itself is not racist. It is an inanimate object and is incapable of emotion, prejudice, etc. But it's name is not independent from Benjamin Tillman. For better or worse as long as it is named after him, it will always be linked to him.
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110%er [7723]
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That's fine with me..
Feb 5, 2016, 4:47 PM
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And I'll never understand racism towards AA, simply bc I'm not one of either (a racist or an AA). But I would understand if it was named after someone that persecuted Christians or Native Americans (probably is somewhere) or southern whites or Americans in general. And then I'd probably not like the name. But I don't hold grudges for anyone cuz it's just a foundational theme of my life.
Dabo Hall it is! I'll go write the new name on it immediately. Just gotta find my spray paint..... (Too soon?)
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CU Guru [1898]
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One day the name will be changed. Why wait until
Feb 5, 2016, 5:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future ] |
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major protests come and it's on all of the national news. Would such a furor affect black enrollment at Clemson? It might. Would it affect recruiting of black athletes? It darn sure might. That is exactly what is going to happen some day if the name is not changed. I never thought much about the name Tillman until the facts came out about the guy. He was a racist on steroids. Change the building name, and put a plaque in the foyer explaining the history of naming the building, etc. Benjamin Tillman will always be connected with the Clemson story, and he should be. But it is time to change the name of the building.
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All-TigerNet [10482]
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Re: One day the name will be changed. Why wait until
Feb 5, 2016, 5:46 PM
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If you judge historical figures through the prism of today's ethics, morals and laws, they will fall short almost every time. By today's standard George Washington & Thomas Jefferson would be criminals. You recognize their failings, you honor their achievements and everyone goes forward together striving to do better. That is the value of history. Don't change it, learn from it.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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taking a person's name off a building isn't changing history
Feb 6, 2016, 5:06 PM
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and it was originally called the Main Building, not Tillman Hall. So when the name was switched to Tillman Hall, history was changed as far as the Main Building is concerned.
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Standout [343]
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Rock Defender [71]
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CU Guru [1898]
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RC and "Moon Pie" - they were a great pair and did so
Feb 6, 2016, 1:41 PM
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much for Clemson University. Mrs. Edwards was a good sport about her nickname.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Unfortunately, Clemson can't change the name...
Feb 6, 2016, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to One day the name will be changed. Why wait until ] |
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it's up to the SC Legislature. There might be things going on behind closed doors by Clemson to get the name changed.
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110%er [7723]
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I wish I had that kind of money to give to CU
Feb 5, 2016, 4:28 PM
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I wouldn't put my name on it tho. Best believe it'd be the "Dabo ___" or "Swinney ___".
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Agreed, if I gave that kind of money, I would never...
Feb 6, 2016, 4:57 PM
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want my name on something, and I wouldn't want to be publicly acknowledged for it. I would push for it to be named after a Clemson Legend
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 4:40 PM
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I find it amusing that people believe that history can be changed by changing the name of a building or taking down a flag. We are what we are and deciding to call us something different changes nothing. BTW, when someone uses terms like "vile, racist murderer", they lose credibility with most logical people and certainly with me. Oh yeah, calling people cowards because they don't believe what you do tends to have the same affect. I feel sad for people that love Clemson enough to be on this board but still find a reason to hate Clemson for actions taken by people long since dead at a time when those actions were not looked upon in the same light they are today.
My apologies to those that find my comments out of place because they are not about Clemson football. I know that this isn't the proper venue, but i put up with enough of this PC crap in the professional world.
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Orange Blooded [3823]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 4:44 PM
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No one wants to change history. Well, I can't speak for everyone so I'll repeat I do not wish to rewrite or whitewash history in any way whatsoever.
It's not about history but who we choose to honor with the most prominent building on our campus. That is all. We can be better.
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CU Guru [1266]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 5:04 PM
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My apologies to you then sir. I still will have to disagree with the name change. If we find out that Amerigo Vespucci was a slaver, do we change the name of the USA? History is history and I choose not to judge people of the past on the beliefs of today. It is not fair to them or us. Using the name change logic, my Grandmother was a racist and I'm not ready to accept that. Heck, when I was growing up in Greenville, SC in the '60s, Jews and Catholics were frowned upon and Baptist was the only true religion. If I remember correctly, we didn't fully trust Presbyterians, Methodist or Lutherans. Our world is a changing place.
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Orange Blooded [3823]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 5:15 PM
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I respect your reasoned approach and you. I truly do. Refreshing actually. And I had grandparents and great aunts and uncles with similar views. Wonderful people who I loved dearly, but had to learn to separate that part of them from the rest. No one is perfect. Granted, to my knowledge none of them were murderers.
Reasonable people can disagree on this issue and still respect each other. So I appreciate that.
I know Oxford and Princeton are grappling with similar issues as are other places.
Would I rename the USA? No way. But a building is not a country (continents too in this case) and America wasn't renamed from her original name in 1946 either.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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The building was originally called The Main Building...
Feb 6, 2016, 5:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future ] |
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so by your logic it should have never been changed from The Main Building. And by your logic it's disrespectful to have changed it from The Main Building to Tillman Hall, which only happened because his son was on the BOT and pushed for the name change because he was afraid of his father being forgotten and/or abhorred for the type of person he was.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Legend [15501]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 8, 2016, 9:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future ] |
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When this cause is won, the ones who continue to find a "cause" to rally around will just bring up something else that really doesn't matter and then start all over again. If it makes them happy, let them go ahead. It means nothing to most, and nobody even would think of it if they didn't want it to be an issue.
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All-Conference [403]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 5, 2016, 10:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future ] |
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> I find it amusing that people believe that history
> can be changed by changing the name of a building or
> taking down a flag. We are what we are and deciding
> to call us something different changes nothing. BTW,
> when someone uses terms like "vile, racist murderer",
> they lose credibility with most logical people and
> certainly with me. Oh yeah, calling people cowards
> because they don't believe what you do tends to have
> the same affect. I feel sad for people that love
> Clemson enough to be on this board but still find a
> reason to hate Clemson for actions taken by people
> long since dead at a time when those actions were not
> looked upon in the same light they are today.
>
> My apologies to those that find my comments out of
> place because they are not about Clemson football. I
> know that this isn't the proper venue, but i put up
> with enough of this PC crap in the professional world.
I don't think it matters what "light" you view Ben Tillman's actions in. Google "Hamburg Massacre" and get back to me.
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CU Guru [1898]
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Contrary to your view, I do not find it amusing
Feb 6, 2016, 12:05 AM
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that some people believe that history can be changed by changing the name of a building or taking down a flag. History is history. Changing the name of Tillman Hall does not change history. Taking down the Confederate flag on the state house grounds in Columbia changed not a whit of history. That so, I stand on my comments above.
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CU Guru [1040]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 6, 2016, 12:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future ] |
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Wait so Tillman was a democrat? Are you prepared to denounce your affiliation to the democratic party? No? Then stick a twinkie in your pie hole. History is just that. History. We cannot change it. By keeping the name of the building does not mean we embrace the beliefs of the time. Find something to spend your energy on that can affect the FUTURE. Like my uncle that graduated Clemson in 38 and served in the Pacific theater said. FIDO. forget it and drive on.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Tillman Hall isn't the original name, so by your logic it...
Feb 6, 2016, 5:21 PM
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needs to be called The Main Building since that was the original historical name.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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It was originally called The Main Building not Tillman Hall
Feb 6, 2016, 5:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future ] |
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So changing it from The Main Building to Tillman Hall, was an attempt to change history. And by the way Ben Tillman was a vile racist murderer, that's a fact. He was member of a white vigilante group that killed black people. He played a part in the assassination of a State Senator. You're not a logical person if you think vile racist murderer doesn't describe Ben Tillman. If you condone or romanticize someone like him, you are a sick and demented individual. By the way nobody is hating on Clemson, they just want the name removed.
Your problem isn't "PC crap", it's that your an intolerant person who condones a terrorist.
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All-Pro [699]
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Swan-eee!!! Swan-eee!!! Hats off
Feb 5, 2016, 5:01 PM
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Seriously though, he's all in. As Philpott would say, let's give a shout out. Leader in the clubhouse. In every sense of the phrase.
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Orange Blooded [4712]
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Wait a minute... closed MS and PhD programs in MSE?????
Feb 6, 2016, 10:17 AM
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Why on earth would they close the graduate programs in Materials Science and Engineering? Did I read that right?
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Varsity [211]
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Yeah, that's the strangest thing in the whole press release.
Feb 6, 2016, 11:45 AM
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Not sure why they would do that. I thought they were trying to grow the grad engineering programs.
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Freshman [-100]
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David Wilkins
Feb 6, 2016, 8:09 PM
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It is time to remove David Wilkins from the Board. He wrote the Heritage act and is the reason
the Board will not move from its embarrassing position. All the good will
of the last season will be lost when the National news organizations start to report this story.
And they will sooner than many think.
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Legend [15501]
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Re: David Wilkins
Feb 8, 2016, 9:37 AM
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Those who periodically bring it up are the ones who seem to want the negative publicity by trying desperately to put it in the headlines. But for them, who really would know, and more importantly, just how many really care at all, one way or another. There are way too many current issues that can matter than something like this.
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Commissioner [957]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 6, 2016, 8:16 PM
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..as this comes from a committee no second is required.
All in favor say, "Go Tigers!"
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1st Rounder [631]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson trustees approve reports on university’s past, present and future
Feb 9, 2016, 12:24 PM
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We need to add post graduate programs for students seeking Medical professions.
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