Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
It would bring me joy to slash homeless people in half
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - General Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 15
| visibility 1

It would bring me joy to slash homeless people in half


Oct 30, 2019, 6:29 PM

by the year 2030. What are measures we need to take to achieve those goals, especially when a substantial percentage of the homeless population consists of veterans?

Getting this number down is just better for the perceived quality of life in America. Even in nice places like Charleston, the homeless population is a little bit eye-opening. I think if we need to do better by our homeless population, especially veterans.

What say you? Is a society with homeless folks natural? Is it bad luck or bad choices? Is it worth the investment to remedy the situation?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Harbor Freight has machetes on sale for 5 bucks each.


Oct 30, 2019, 7:15 PM

They are dull but you can buy a file for pretty cheap there too.

So if we declared war on poverty would you be for throwing grenades at the poor?


Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®


2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I am so confused. Why are you trying to kill the poor?***


Oct 30, 2019, 7:17 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


You're the one who suggest slashing them in half.


Oct 30, 2019, 7:39 PM

I thought it was that kind of lunge thread.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It’s going to take a lot of psychos with big sharp knives


Oct 30, 2019, 7:18 PM

But seriously I think the way we treat our veterans and have for a very long time, is probably our biggest failing as a nation. We give them a “thank you for your service “ but don’t take care of their physical and mental health issues to show that we really do appreciate their service.

The second biggest is the way we handle mental illness in this country which also contributes to the large homeless population.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-cu85tiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov
Panta Rhei Heraclitus


Don't leave out drug addiction as a factor.


Oct 30, 2019, 7:43 PM

Most of the homeless are on gov assistance. Make mandatory medical and mental healthcare part of the qualifications. To pay for it we'd only need to clean up the social services rolls.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Just go to the rich neighborhoods tomorrow night.


Oct 30, 2019, 7:31 PM

You’ll find all the poor people there.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Veterans make up less than 10% of the homeless population,


Oct 30, 2019, 7:45 PM

about the same as in the general population. I would guess that some aspects of being a veteran can lead to addiction and thus homelessness, but addressing that, while very worthwhile, will not make the dent in total homeless you are looking for, I don't think.

There are basically two types of homelessness:
1. Situational: loss of job, family break up, abandonment, etc
2. Chronic: a pattern of recurring homelessness, homeless for more than a year. These are, for the most part, the street people you see on new reports, panhandling on the street, etc.

Generally speaking, the people in #1 will not be homeless within a year. They make up most of the homeless population, and there is not a lot we can do to quickly reduce that number. Give all of those people a house and income today, and in a year the number will be back to where it was with new people experiencing the events that temporarily cause homelessness. The total is about 70% (some say less) of the total homeless population.

The people in #2 are usually what we have in mind when we say, "the homeless". They represent about 30% (some say a little more) of the total homeless population.

I dont claim to be an expert on homelessness, but I have a few observations from working with them on a weekly basis with a national charity. We work primarily with people in the #2 category, people on the street with no where to go. From my observation, what you hear honest govt officials say on this topic (a rare occurence) is right; homelessness and addiction go hand in hand. To treat homelessness as a lack of economic opportunity is a dead end. That is not the problem, by and large. This charity has two shelters, one for people needing a bed and meals for the day, and one for people willing to enter the homeless recovery program. The daily shelter is 'no questions asked': need a bed, you get one if space is available.

The program, on the other hand, is 180 days. If an client remains alcohol and drug free, attends daily addiction recovery classes, works a job on the campus (donation intake, etc) and abides by behavioral rules, he/she gets a bed and meals for 180 days. During this time the client gets clean or sober, finds a job, accumulates a little seed money, and become independent again.

Bottom line: The number of people willing to agree to the conditions for the 180 day program is low. Of those who enter the program, the washout rate is high. Of those who complete the program, the recidivism rate is high. Success is measured not in percentages but in individuals. The staff and volunteers tell stories of those who made it, not of large percentage impact. Love is given to all regardless of success, and second chances are freely given, or one will become disenchanted with the effort.

After years of doing this and hundreds of clients I have gotten to know, I cannot tell you with certainty whether addiction causes homelessness or learned patterns of thought and behavior cause both homelessness and addiction. However, I strongly believe it is the latter. Almost all the people I have worked with have a horrific childhood story, many so bad they sound fictional. One of our current clients was abandoned in the NE at age 14 so he began hitchhiking south because he was cold. One his rides stopped in Greenville, SC one night so he planned on continuing in the morning. He was in a dumpster that night foraging for food, and a man came to throw away the day's trash and saw him.

"Hey kid, can you wash dishes?"
"Who wants to know?"
"Me. I own a restaurant. I'll give you a bed in the restaurant, clothes and food if you wash dishes."

That man maybe saved his life. He is still in Greenville, now age 42. We can't know what could have become of him because within a short time, fearing the man would send him into a foster care system (he was understandably fearful of adults) he ran from that guy and ended up living on the street, first running pot on street corners and later making meth. Ironically, he was never caught doing that, though he was addicted himself. What put him in prison was non payment of child support. And one thing leads to another and he is now in our program.

The story is too long already, so I will end it here by saying that the only way forward for our friend is for him to relearn some very basic patterns of motivation resulting behavior. He is very smart, fun to be with and talk to, but his thinking is fundamentally different from yours or mine. His event horizon is about a day; he has no concept of the future beyond about 24 hours, and one can imagine the effect that has on cause/effect decision making.

This is just one guy, but he is very much like almost all the people we get in the program. What are this person's chances of getting off the street? Not good. But we love him, and he knows it. And if he messes up, all he has to do is come back and say, "I screwed up, I need a redo", and he'll get one. [If you dont want to read a spiritual aspect of this, dont read this part: he is now a follower of Jesus, and if his patterns of behavior do not change enough to prevent a repeat of past mistakes, we know, and he knows, he will spend eternity as he was created to be, not what the fallen world molded him into. He and we rejoice in that daily.]

How to cut the homeless population in half? First understand that the situationally homeless will not be homeless within the year. If you remain committed to reducing the number of chronically homeless in half, I have one answer: I don't know. I think it can be done, but it will require much more of a volunteer force than we currently have. If you want to think about this, read the PS below and Tmail me.

PS: A primary determinant of a person's behavior is the community around him/her. Most people leave our program and naturally return to where they came from in terms of neighborhood and friends. Some of them do not know a single person who works a daily job, pays his bills and raises a family. They therefore return to friends with different patterns of thinking, and they end up back on the street and/or addicted. We do attempt to provide fellowship and community after graduation, but the resources (number of available people to mentor and befriend) is minuscule compared to the need. So, and individual can have great impact in the lives of a few, but to address the issue on a wide scale will need a grassroots movement of many such people. This issues needs more of a bottom up fix than a top down one, and it is labor intensive, as all friendships are. If you want to talk, tmail me.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Thank you for your post and for all you do.***


Oct 31, 2019, 8:16 AM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Since you seem to have far more firsthand experience


Oct 31, 2019, 8:16 AM [ in reply to Veterans make up less than 10% of the homeless population, ]

in this than most of us, let me ask you this: I've long thought untreated mental illness was one of, if not THE primary driver in chronic homelessness. Does the evidence you've seen support that supposition, or is it down the list of factors? Do addiction and mental illness get blurred together in many cases?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-19b.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Yes, there seems to be a lot of mental illness involved.


Oct 31, 2019, 3:04 PM

Good questions. My observations are likely skewed because I am seeing the people we get, not all the people on the street, However, we get the lower ones so I imagine its a pretty good representation. The self selecting factor is that the ones we get have the ability to understand we are here, get themselves here, and communicate their desire to work towards independence. Believe me, that bar is one many homeless can't get over. So, if I see mental illness as a big factor where I am, I imagine it is even worse on the street.

So, with that too long preamble, I will say that more than half the people we see have some level of mental illness, if the definition is broad enough to include clinical depression, which, heck, is almost epidemic anyway. If the definition is PTSD, bi polar disorder, etc, I would say its 30%

However, what is clearly epidemic among the homeless is a degrading of self that happened in early childhood. Sexual and physical abuse is the norm, in an environment absent of love and acceptance. None of the good, all the bad. I wont try to describe the ways we see it affect a person's view of self and life, other than to say the decision making process is often indecipherable, except that one can see they desperately want basic love and security. It is their view of those things that is very hard to understand. So, the question is, "Is that mental illness?" It sure looks like it, and it affects behavior as though they are mentally ill. I don't know if an actual diagnosis can be put on that, but yes, it is typical.

Oh, and yes, that goes hand in hand with drug use.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


probably starts with a little harmless weed***


Oct 31, 2019, 8:20 AM [ in reply to Veterans make up less than 10% of the homeless population, ]



military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"New places... New faces..."***


Nov 1, 2019, 9:07 AM [ in reply to Veterans make up less than 10% of the homeless population, ]



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Crass says we cut off electricity to them. Theyll go away***


Oct 30, 2019, 7:54 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


Re: It would bring me joy to slash homeless people in half


Oct 31, 2019, 7:48 AM

Dang. Slash them in half? What if we just cut off a finger or something?



But in seriousness, much of homelessness boils down to untreated mental illness.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Working in a homeless shelter, I've learned:


Oct 31, 2019, 1:12 PM

A good percentage have some sort of mental illness (Was it caused by being homeless? I can't say.) If you gave these people a home - they would leave it...

Another large portion are "bad decisions". (Drugs/Alcohol/Not getting properly educated) There has been some alienation from family - probably by cussing them out one time too many when they tried to help. So, when things got bad, there was no where to turn. These people could be helped.

There aren't that many veterans where I am...

Side note: the current homeless population is a good reason to be opposed to the US letting even more people in...

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Replies: 15
| visibility 1
Archives - General Boards Archive
add New Topic